Am I being unreasonable?

[dennbr9]

Maybe the best message you can send them is to let them know that the $300 offer did not change your mind about planning your future cruise with Celebrity.

 

There is an old saying: Make one customer happy he will tell his friends; make him unhappy and he will tell everyone he knows.

[calikak]

I'd talk to the lawyer that's suing Princess. I probably wouldn't join their lawsuit (being a plaintiff is often more hassle than it's worth), but I'd at least tell him exactly what happened on my cruise, so he can use that info in his suit, so nobody has to endure these jerks again. Princess isn't going to stop letting these jerks ruin other people's vacations unless they lose a lawsuit.

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect to get any further compensation from Princess. You may believe you're entitled to more, but the odds of you getting it are slim to none, given Princess's track record in these kinds of matters. So, for my own sanity, I'd probably give my info to the lawyer, and walk away.

[Cruisin' Chick]

For Bubbadog and anyone else interested, here's my review of that very cruise that includes much of what this family did:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=285469&highlight=aloha

 

That's interesting about what the lawyer said. I'll tell you more why I say that, Kim, when I finally finish my final draft of the letter I've been working on (I've been holding back until I hear from all you folk).

[Colo Cruiser]

We had this very problem on the Coral Princess from Seaward to Vancouver in July 2003 and they actually kicked the family off in Juneau.

[Cruisin' Chick]

We had this very problem on the Coral Princess from Seaward to Vancouver in July 2003 and they actually kicked the family off in Juneau.

 

I bet that family was dropping tons of money on the blackjack table.:rolleyes:

[nana nancy]

I am a school bus driver and have to travel during school vacations. My husband and I, usually with 3 to 4 other couples have had a number of kid experiences. On the QM2 the resteaurant manager told us that they did not know what to do. Parents ignored the kids, let them run wild, and when the the QM2 reps told them of their childrens wrong doings, the attitude was, leave me alone I'm on vacation. On the NCL Crown last Augest, toddlers in swimmy diapers were in the pool. It stated all over the pool area that no diapers were allowed in the pool! We have been on RCL 3 times, Celebrity 1, NCL 2, QM2 1, Princess this coming summer, none of them seem to take responsibility for their policies. They want everyone to come back, be happy. We have observed 12-13 year olds in the elevator at 2 AM, drunk and the cruise line did not know what to do. Parents seem to think that when on a ship they don't have to worry about their teens and pre-teens. Guess they have not heard about the people who have fallen over! I guess the only solution is an adults only cruise. Are there any and are they more expensive?:eek:

[purplefan]

You are not being unreasonable at all!! This is a terrible experience for a vacation you are paying for and the ship is responsible for stopping this behavior. They should deal with the parents, and should do whatever needs to be done to ensure your vacation is a pleasant one.

 

However, avoiding vacations where more children are present will NOT guarantee you will be on a trip with people who have better manners. We travel with our children often, and am grateful we can. We of course take responsibility for their actions, and also hold them accountable. Unfortunately, we have had episodes in our travels where adults have kept our family up at all hours (in expensive hotels), and have had our children exposed to very obnoxious, drunk, cussing, and rude adults!

 

Sorry, age is no factor in determining how consciencious your fellow travelers will be.

[Cruisin' Chick]

Just about all of the kids were well behaving (including mine, I hope). And just about all of the children aboard any of our ships have been. It was just this one group of siblings/cousins. They were bored. Their parents could not care if they were being inconsiderate. Unfortunately, Princess cared more about their vacation than for my family's, for Kim and her hubby, and for the other 2000 or so passengers who had to put up with this group.

[Mrsdigi]

Y'all should have gone down to the Purser's office en masse with the other 2000 passengers who weren't acting like idiots and demanded something be done.

[Mmm...coffee!]

Maybe the best message you can send them is to let them know that the $300 offer did not change your mind about planning your future cruise with Celebrity.

 

Celebrity has had similar problems on holiday cruises. It was pretty much the same scenario.

 

Why doesn't anyone sue the family in question? It's not Princess' fault they are jerks. I know from personal experience that you run a great risk of being sued yourself when a company representative gets in a dispute with people who represent a recognizable minority, even if they are clearly in the wrong. It's almost a guaranteed cha-ching! for the bad actors if the case is filed in California. Food for thought.

[Cruisin' Chick]

Apparently the CCers who were on the 2004 cruise did get together and hire an attorney. The outcome is under a gag order, or something like that. But ever since then, Princess has hired youth security for cruises with a lot of kids. We saw them on this last cruise but unfortunately, the yellow shirts weren't given the authority to do more than to talk to the kids and parents. And these parents did not feel any need to supervise their kids.

[bdjam]

Why doesn't anyone sue the family in question? It's not Princess' fault they are jerks. I know from personal experience that you run a great risk of being sued yourself when a company representative gets in a dispute with people who represent a recognizable minority, even if they are clearly in the wrong. It's almost a guaranteed cha-ching! for the bad actors if the case is filed in California. Food for thought.

What is the basis for the lawsuit against Princess? How is the cruise line in breach of contract with any passenger?

[sandbag7]

Sorry folks, this isn't lawsuit material; the family did not commit any tortious acts, and Princess can't (successfully) be said to have breached their contract. This is a sorry story, and I think you did all you could do, but I don't think you will get further satisfaction; it probably doesn't translate to a general Princess problem, but if it happended to me I'd consider another line for my next cruise and let Princess know it.

[kryos]

To make matters worse I've gotten emails from an attorney who told me the family that terorized our cruise was the same family that Princess got sued over on the same cruise the year before. Shjould I write again or am I wasting my breath? When I try calling no one wants to talk to me.

Personally, if this were me, I'd FAX Princess this time and advise them that either someone calls me back to discuss this matter and a proper resolution IMMEDIATELY, or I'd be the next lawsuit they would have to deal with. Then, if they don't respond to you pronto, I'd answer that attorney's emails and see what can be done.

 

Princess will probably take notice of your complaints real quick in that case ... and be much more willing to offer you some kind of meaningful compensation ... because they would realize that if you do hook up with an attorney, they will probably end up refunding just about the entire amount of your cruise ... if not more for "emotional distress."

 

Of course, I am assuming you have all these contacts documented and can prove that you did try to get the matter amicably resolved while onboard.

 

There is no excuse for the shabby way you were treated. Passengers onboard any cruise ship have a certain standard of behavior they must adhere to. If they don't, the captain does have the right to put them off the ship at the next port. Obviously, the ship's officers were getting complaints about this family from others, as well as yourself, and they had a responsibility to do something about those complaints ... such as have a "chat" with the parents and advise them that they will either control their childrens' behavior or they will be flying home from the next port at their own expense.

 

Shame you had such a crappy cruise. That's precisely why I will never sail during school holidays. Unfortunately, there are a little too many parents with the attitude you mention ... "it's my vacation, don't bother me" ... when it comes to supervising their children.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Why doesn't anyone sue the family in question? It's not Princess' fault they are jerks.

It's not Princess' fault that the family are jerks, but it is Princess' fault for not taking control of the situation and forcing the parents to step up to the plate to control their kids. Princess let the kids continue their intrusive behavior, and allowed the parents' to ignore it. Thus, Princess has an obligation to make restitution to those on the cruise who were "victimized" by the family of jerks.

 

Even if you are gonna institute a "youth security" force, not giving them any authority equals doing nothing. Fine, talking to the kids causing problems is a great first step, and if that resolves the problem ... great. No need to go any further. If talking to the kids does nothing to resolve the offensive behavior, then yes ... a good second step is a chat with the parents. But, if that doesn't work, then the youth security folks should have the authority to take the matter before the captain (or another ranking officer who could order the family removed from the ship). And, the threat of being removed should be very, very real ... not just an empty one.

 

Betcha the prospect of having to fly one's entire family home ... obtaining tickets at a premium price since there would be no advance purchase ... will convince even the most negligent of parents to get their kids under control pronto.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[c_galle]

I must first say, that I don't doubt you had a terrible experience and feel sorry for you. I did want to get a few answers about a few things that bothereded me.

"To make matters worse I've gotten emails from an attorney who told me the family that terorized our cruise was the same family that Princess got sued over on the same cruise the year before."

Did you actually have an attorney call you? It seems odd that you would have a beef with Princess and then be contacted by someone who was sueing Princess. I mean, I don't believe Princess would ever disclose your private contact info to someone who was sueing them.

"The Captain was well aware of the problem as were all the officers at the Captain's Luncheon. Princess chose not to do anything about the people as they were spending a fortune on booze and gambling plus they had the majority of the large suites on the cruise."

The Captain might be aware of it, but he is responsible for the Ship. I don't think he should be called down to deal with every unruly passanger. I have to ask, "How did you know this family was spending so much money on the cruise? Did they tell you this? Majority of large suites? How many people were in this group?

"I don't know if it's true or not but the Passenger Services manager was not at the Captain's lunch and I'm told it was because he did not want to talk about these people."

Who told you this? I can't believe the Passenger Services Manager would say this in the first place, but then for someone to report it to you?

 

I am sorry your cruise was so horrible. I am not a Princess Cheerleader as I have never rode Princess. First Cruise in three weeks. But does anyone have any info on this lawsuit? I ask because everyone is citing this, but a simple websearch by me hasn't provided something. I deal more easily in facts and am willing to let someone point the way. Thanks.

 

BTW, I do think Princess is to blame. I do think you should of pressed it and got copies of your complaints. Documentation is everything. Do I think you will get anything better? Not without any documentation.

[kryos]

Did you actually have an attorney call you? It seems odd that you would have a beef with Princess and then be contacted by someone who was sueing Princess. I mean, I don't believe Princess would ever disclose your private contact info to someone who was sueing them.

Believe me, these attorneys get wind of situations like this in a myraid of ways. Another passenger the OP got friendly with on the cruise ... and maybe gave her email address to ... may have contacted the attorney on her behalf ... maybe that other passenger knew the first party that sued because of this same batch of unruly kids. There are other possible scenarios.

 

Just as an example, in 1999 I was badly injured in a skydiving accident while on vacation in Florida. Entirely my fault ... no equipment malfunction or anything like that. I just plowed myself into the ground on landing and broke both of my femurs.

 

About three or four days later, as I'm recuperating from major surgery at Orlando Regional Medical Center, I get a phone call from an attorney. "Heard you had a pretty bad mishap down at Deland. Anything I can do for you?" Obviously this attorney was looking for a client ripe to sue someone. He knew the specific drop zone I was at when hurt, and even a few details about the accident. How did he find out this information? Surely the skydiving facility wouldn't have called him and said "Want a client you can represent to sue us?"

 

I don't doubt for one minute that an attorney appeared out of the blue offering his services to the OP. Obviously, someone got in touch with him ... and that someone could have been another passenger or even a disgruntled crew member.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[c_galle]

The situation you described is a tad different. Police Scanner, Accident Report, or someone at the Hospital. Any hospital has tons of ambulance chasers in the hospital at any time. I have had several friends collapse a canopy or execute a turn to low and had the lawyer call. I have also had many friends injury themselves on a military jump on a base, and never received a call. I think because of the closed loop of the operation.

 

We are talking about an incident on a ship at sea and then not only the persons name, but something more that an attorney could make an educated link up with the right person and the right contact info.

 

What I am trying to get at is how often people hear something and then present it as fact without chasing down any leads to confirm it. A good example happens everyday in the Media. It sells and no one is accountable for it. I see the printed statements from the Agency and then see how it is spinned by the media to state soemthing better. This is why I am asking the source a direct question.

 

BTW, suffered a TIB/FIB fracture 6 years ago during a night combat jump. Hope you healed properly.

[kryos]

The situation you described is a tad different. Police Scanner, Accident Report, or someone at the Hospital. Any hospital has tons of ambulance chasers in the hospital at any time. I have had several friends collapse a canopy or execute a turn to low and had the lawyer call. I have also had many friends injury themselves on a military jump on a base, and never received a call. I think because of the closed loop of the operation.

 

BTW, suffered a TIB/FIB fracture 6 years ago during a night combat jump. Hope you healed properly.

So/so as for the healing. I'm walking fine, but done with jumping. How do you say it ... "wings of nylon, legs of titanium?" :(

 

Never thought about the ambulance chasers in the hospital. Yeah, guess that could explain it. It's funny, though ... but it was only after going to law school myself that I realized that those "ambulance chasers" are violating their code of ethics by ever contacting a potential client while they are still in the hospital, and thus at least theoretically unable to make rational decisions. Most states have professional codes for attorneys that specifically prohibit this. The attorney is only permitted to visit or speak to a potential client via telephone while they are still hospitalized if the CLIENT contacts them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[rjg41]

Advise for all. When these things happen, keep a detailed log. Dates, times and NAMES. Politely get everyone's name as you talk to them. Don't be afraid to write it down in front of them. This often gets action since they usually suspect you will be writing and they don't want their name in the letter. in the appropriate cases, take picutres. Further, when you do write to the cruise line provide a detailed chronology with NAMES. It really helps make your case with the cruise line.

 

Also, when you get no help, escalate to the next level of management. Don't wait days for a responce. As you proceed up the ladder show each of them your log with the NAMES. Make sure you do it in the tone that you want them to understand the problem. In reality, not only do you want them to understand the problem, you want them to get the message their NAME is next. In all cases be reasonable as to what you want.

 

One thing to keep in mind is there are a lot of people on cruise lines that complain about everything and many are seeking some sort of compensation. The on board staff can get very hardened to this and fail to act on very valid complaints. Polite persistence is a must. When it's happening push for resolution, as the OP did, not compensation.

 

Happy sailing!

[Mmm...coffee!]

It's not Princess' fault that the family are jerks, but it is Princess' fault for not taking control of the situation and forcing the parents to step up to the plate to control their kids. Princess let the kids continue their intrusive behavior, and allowed the parents' to ignore it. Thus, Princess has an obligation to make restitution to those on the cruise who were "victimized" by the family of jerks.

 

I appreciate your point of view and can fully understand the sense of frustration. These things seem to happen regularly on holiday cruises and the cruise line(s) involved seem to do nothing even though they have discretionary powers. Why is that?

 

Personally, I think the fact that they are large groups, as was the case when we experienced a similar incident, spending lots of money does play a role. Also, the fact that the family belongs to a recognizable minority has to be considered. The people aren't endangering anyone, they are just being jerks. To take action, or threaten action, will bring out the lawyers just as fast as they showed up when you got hurt. (By the way...OW!...still jumping? Hope you recovered well.)

 

It's like teachers with unruly kids. The threat of lawsuits really ties their hands. If even a part of the group was booted off the ship, you can bet they'll be screaming discrimination. The fact that they are wealthy jerks will be forgotten. Perhaps if enough passengers assisted by writing affidavits about the behavior and submitting them to the GRM, it might be easier to get something done. I don't know.

 

I think any service provider is in a very difficult situation dealing with a group like this. A "do not book" list would be a good idea.

[suziehmkr]

Hello all - We were on the same cruise as Mommykim & Cruisin' Chick... we also got a poor response from Princess that was in the form of a canned response. The one statement in the letter that got my steamed was this which proves that the repercussions from dealing with this family outweighed the cruising experience of the other 1950 passengers on board.

 

"In such circumstances, however, the crew and staff is made aware of the fact that over stepping what is considered to be the accepted line of our responsibility is done guardedly with the caution that such action may have long-lasting repercussions."

 

So, even though there was a problem - they had no intention of remedying the situation. They cited that in different cultures, what is considered acceptable behavior varies. But, I guess the rules of the ship don't matter at that point. This family was horrible and didn't care. But of course, the grand poobah was getting treated like royalty when he was spending thougsands in Facets. Of course.... why wouldn't they?

 

How they have treated Mommykim - a 24 times traveler with Princess - speaks for itself.

[Mrsdigi]

About three or four days later, as I'm recuperating from major surgery at Orlando Regional Medical Center, I get a phone call from an attorney. "Heard you had a pretty bad mishap down at Deland. Anything I can do for you?" Obviously this attorney was looking for a client ripe to sue someone. He knew the specific drop zone I was at when hurt, and even a few details about the accident. How did he find out this information? Surely the skydiving facility wouldn't have called him and said "Want a client you can represent to sue us?"--rita

 

Wow, I'm an attorney and by law here in Michigan we can't do what that attorney did to you. We have to wait for clients to come to us. I would assume the law is the same in Florida. It's attorney's like that who give the rest of us a bad name.

[sandbag7]

Different states have different interpretations of attorney ethics and advertising and dictate as an example when an attorney can claim to be a specialist in a certain area of practice; not all states prohibit an attorney from initiating contact with a prospective client (a/k/a ambulance chasing). But the current case is without legal merit.

[Mmm...coffee!]

"In such circumstances, however, the crew and staff is made aware of the fact that over stepping what is considered to be the accepted line of our responsibility is done guardedly with the caution that such action may have long-lasting repercussions."

 

If you haven't been in business and had to deal with discrimination complaints, you won't understand that statement.

 

If it were possible to sue a company just because people using their products and services were jerks, I'd own BMW. :)