power strip vs euro converter

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, rudeney said:

 

Interesting.  That should not be the case because European standard is 50hz.  Since most people are plugging in electronics that often auto-switch, it's likely not an issue.

The ship does not produce power with two different frequencies, 60hz for 110 and 50hz for 220.  Frequency is created by the speed of the generator, and all power on the ship is produced by generators running at the same speed and connected to a common bus, or "grid".  While European cargo ships will generate 50hz power, most cruise ships generate 60hz power.  And, unless the appliance you are plugging in has a motor, the frequency will not matter at all.

[adolfo2]

Personally, I'm waiting for 440V/400Hz power to be made available inside all Junior Suites. Those kettles will really get cranking then 😉

 

[Mrsnorris151]

Hi, can someones tell me if I can bring this along with me?

 

Anker Power Strip with USB, 5 ft... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D25RSWX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, Mrsnorris151 said:

Hi, can someones tell me if I can bring this along with me?

 

Anker Power Strip with USB, 5 ft... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D25RSWX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

For any cruise line other than RCI, it would be fine, but not for RCI.

[Joseph2017China]

On 9/9/2022 at 2:10 PM, reeb4 said:

I know that trying to bring a power strip has the risk of it being taken...does anyone know if they will confiscate a euro converter plug, so we can use those outlets for additional devices?  I have a CPAP, so I will get an extension from our steward, but would like some additional outlets for phone charging, etc.  We are in a JS on Navigator coming up and the coffee maker is already going to take an outlet each morning.  Thanks for any input.  It has been a minute since our last cruise (pre-covid in 2019) and I am trying to shake the rust off my brain.

For starters, EURO is currency, not electricity.  The plug is 240 volts, and it is a two pin plug, but some of the plugs are plugs designed for just about any type of pins.  But the converter plug to two pin from flat pin is not a power source, it is simply a adapter to change pin shape.  NO, the ship is not taking adapters.  

 

Just make sure anything you plug in is dual voltage, or you will fry it

[steveru621]

On 9/9/2022 at 8:03 PM, rudeney said:

A voltage converter that is small enough to travel with usually only provides around 200 watts, which is nowhere near enough for a hair dryer.  It might run a small fan or a small flat iron, but probably not a CPAP.  

 

Ran my CPAP on a Travel Power Adapter on Jewel for 6 weeks.  The power brick on the CPAP accepts 220 or 110.  Just made life easier charging our cell phones.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078M32R41/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Capt_BJ]

I guess the NAVY was/is wrong with their list of surge protectors approved for shipboard use ....

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, Capt_BJ said:

I guess the NAVY was/is wrong with their list of surge protectors approved for shipboard use ....

I'd love to see that list, and the qualifications for approval, as I've never seen a consumer surge protector that is any different than another, and again, it is not the surge protector that is the problem, it is a ground fault that causes a perfectly good surge protector to fail.

[vjmatty]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:22 PM, Capt_BJ said:

this a picture of a power strip which had been used on a ship ..... it was NOT ship safe ..... the electrical system of a ship is a wee bit different from your house.  I'll not go into details but simply show this picture as evidence 'it matters' .... the problem comes from the 'surge protector' .. some are OK with ship systems and some are NOT... had a ship fire for this very reason during my time as Captain ..... fortunately we caught it fast and found WHO was responsible for using it . . . 

 

I don’t think this is what the OP was asking about. 

[adolfo2]

15 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

For starters, EURO is currency, not electricity.  The plug is 240 volts, and it is a two pin plug, but some of the plugs are plugs designed for just about any type of pins.  But the converter plug to two pin from flat pin is not a power source, it is simply a adapter to change pin shape.  NO, the ship is not taking adapters.  

 

Sorry to burst you bubble BUT this was recently confiscated at embarkation security (it was in my carryon). YES, they are out of control!

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by adolfo2

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, adolfo2 said:

Sorry to burst you bubble BUT this was recently confiscated at embarkation security (it was in my carryon). YES, they are out of control!

Whether this should have been confiscated or not, this is not a "converter plug" as the poster you are responding to referred to.  This is an "outlet extender" or "outlet multiplier" which allows multiple plugs to be plugged into one outlet.  A "converter plug" or "outlet adapter" merely has a single plug (of one shape pins) on one side and a single female plug (of another shape pins) on the other side.  

 

This is a "converter plug":

 

[Joseph2017China]

1 hour ago, adolfo2 said:

Sorry to burst you bubble BUT this was recently confiscated at embarkation security (it was in my carryon). YES, they are out of control!

 

 

That's a power strip, it take 1 outlet to 3 outlets.  An adapter only changes the shape of a plug but does not add extra jacks.  Huge difference.  My $0.99 adapter is not a strip.  

[adolfo2]

20 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Whether this should have been confiscated or not, this is not a "converter plug" as the poster you are responding to referred to.  This is an "outlet extender" or "outlet multiplier" which allows multiple plugs to be plugged into one outlet.  A "converter plug" or "outlet adapter" merely has a single plug (of one shape pins) on one side and a single female plug (of another shape pins) on the other side.  

 

This is a "converter plug":

 

I concur but it isn't much of a "stretch" for them to start confiscating the Schuko->NEMA "adapter" as well 😞 

The hot-button issue with the cruiseline was always the presence of a "cord" and/or surge suppression (MOV)... they've moved away from that and have gotten more extreme.

[craig01020]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:17 PM, shipgeeks said:

We definitely take our own water bottles and just refill them. Wide-mouth ones make it easy to fill in the cabin, or from cabin ice bucket, or from glasses of water in the buffet.

European or American? Do I need a converter?  🤣

[reeb4]

21 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

For starters, EURO is currency, not electricity. 

Yes, thank you...I think everyone else understood it was an abbreviation...

[Joseph2017China]

1 hour ago, reeb4 said:

Yes, thank you...I think everyone else understood it was an abbreviation...

My euro converter is my calculator on my phone or an app.  

 

The two pins are used outside of Europe, including places in Africa and in China and Thailand.  Some areas in Europe also use the Type G plug.  Switzerland and Liechtenstein uses the Type J plug.  So, three different plugs in Europe, and many of those used outside of Europe as well.  

 

But Euro is a currency......not a plug

 

[Jersey42]

On 9/11/2022 at 7:57 PM, chengkp75 said:

I'd love to see that list, and the qualifications for approval, as I've never seen a consumer surge protector that is any different than another, and again, it is not the surge protector that is the problem, it is a ground fault that causes a perfectly good surge protector to fail.

I was curious, so I did some searches.  Here is the latest source document that I can find.  It's 10 years old and I couldn't find any newer versions.

https://www.sailorbob.com/files/cqe/NSTM_300.pdf

Take a look at section 300-2.7.3.5.  Requirements include: marine type, metal case, double-pole switch/circuit breaker, dual thermal fuses and both common and normal mode protection. They also mention specific approved models (as of 2012) and there is a periodic inspection requirement.

 

Even if these were absolutely safe on a ship, I see two simple reasons why any cruise line would prohibit passengers from bringing these aboard:  The people checking the luggage will never know if they are compliant and there is no way to ensure they have been properly inspected and maintained. 

 

I know you have explained many times before why surge protectors are not needed aboard ship, but do you have any thoughts on the safety issues with these marine devices.

 

I don't pretend to know anything, I just always learn something from your posts.

[chengkp75]

38 minutes ago, Jersey42 said:

Take a look at section 300-2.7.3.5.  Requirements include: marine type, metal case, double-pole switch/circuit breaker, dual thermal fuses and both common and normal mode protection. They also mention specific approved models (as of 2012) and there is a periodic inspection requirement.

And, if you look these up, they are not "consumer" power strips, and run in excess of $100 each.  But, yes, they are safer than the consumer type surge suppressor power strips, in that they have a double pole breaker (because both legs are hot compared to ground, so you need to open both legs to prevent all current flow in the appliance, unlike land where "neutral" is the same as "ground"), and dual thermal fuses.  Virtually no consumer surge suppressor has thermal fuses.  What happens in the MOV semi-conductors in a surge suppressor is that the MOV provides a high resistance circuit between the hot lead and ground at all times (it doesn't shut off current flow from hot to ground, it only limits it severely by being a very high resistance.  But, this resistance builds up heat in the MOV.  If an MOV is rated for 120v, it can handle 120v power supplied to it indefinitely, and still be able to cool itself off and not fail.  If, however, that MOV sees a higher voltage, say 1 million volts from a lightning strike, it will "open" (switch to a low resistance circuit) to allow the current to flow to ground, and can "survive" this if the surge is milliseconds or seconds long (higher the voltage, lower the time), before it heats up and fails.  This overheating is called "thermal runaway", and is what causes the surge suppressor to catch fire.  The problem with shipboard wiring, is that a 440v motor may develop a partial ground, and now the surge suppressor sees a continuous 300-400v across it (from the ground wire to the hot leads).  This 300-400v is not dangerous to you, since normally nothing that you are touching is connected to ground, but that voltage hits the surge protector, which is connected to ground, and it cannot cool itself off from a continuous high voltage, so it goes into thermal runaway, and melts the casing of the power strip.  The thermal fuses that the navy requires, will open the circuit, taking the surge protector MOV's out of the circuit, when they get too hot.

 

Sorry, probably a lot of yada, yada, but wanted to say why there are marine approved power strips, but none of the ones anyone would buy for a cruise is one of them.

[Capt_BJ]

https://safety4sea.com/uscg-issues-safety-alert-on-surge-protectors/

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Capt_BJ said:

https://safety4sea.com/uscg-issues-safety-alert-on-surge-protectors/

And, if I may quote from your linked article, and the statement by the USCG:

 

"Regarding this Safety Alert, USCG sent a notice stating: “In our recent safety alert we referenced a “UL Marine 1449” standard. It has come to our attention that the SPD standard is UL 1449 and is not characterized as “marine.” An initial review has revealed many SPDs available on line advertised as UL Marine 1449 products."

 

If you read UL 1449, it makes no mention of standards for use of surge protective devices in marine wiring systems.  And, the USCG Safety Notice, which I have known about for years, conflates the problem of surge protector failure with the problem that US consumer based power strips only have single pole circuit breakers, and that given that the ship's circuit breaker for the cabin circuit, has a two pole breaker, an MOV in thermal runaway can get to that state with much less current than the circuit breaker is rated for.

[loman]

I never needed any of this stuff. 

Couple of cell phones is all we bring . We travel light. 🙂

[rudeney]

2 hours ago, loman said:

I never needed any of this stuff. 

Couple of cell phones is all we bring . We travel light. 🙂

 

We travel heavy - two phones, a smart watch, a laptop, at least one fan (probably two), a clock, a couple of rechargeable nightlights and my wife's curling iron.  The phones, watch, nightlights and clock are all USB-powered.  Everything else is 120v.  of course not all of this will be plugged in at the same time.  I don't need a "power strip", but I do use some small multi-outlet cubes with USB ports for both the 120v and 230v outlets.  Oh, and I know people nowadays say just use your phone as a clock, but we have a small USB-powered travel clock that projects the time on the ceiling so there's no rolling over and fumbling with a phone.  

[reeb4]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:59 AM, loman said:

I never needed any of this stuff. 

Couple of cell phones is all we bring . We travel light. 🙂

We travel light too, only way for us. But since my CPAP takes an outlet, I’m just looking to maximize for 2 phones, 1 watch, and the coffee maker if needed. Many thoughtful replies on here. Thanks to all. 

[Daniel A]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:02 PM, chengkp75 said:

no surge protector is safe to use on a ship, any time, any where, regardless of whether you've used it on ships before.

I know this is a RCI forum, but I have a non-RCI specific question.  I bring a power strip which has a resettable circuit breaker and does not indicate having a surge protector.  Understanding that shore-based security people won't know if there's a difference, and I run the risk of confiscation, I just want to double check with you that circuit breakers are OK onboard as long as there's no power surge protection.  Thanks.

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I know this is a RCI forum, but I have a non-RCI specific question.  I bring a power strip which has a resettable circuit breaker and does not indicate having a surge protector.  Understanding that shore-based security people won't know if there's a difference, and I run the risk of confiscation, I just want to double check with you that circuit breakers are OK onboard as long as there's no power surge protection.  Thanks.

Yes, the circuit breaker is acceptable.  You should know that this circuit breaker (I'm assuming this is a "normal" US consumer power strip) only opens the "hot" leg as defined in the US, and the "neutral leg is not interrupted.  However, on a ship, both legs carry power at voltages above ground, so a truly safe power strip has a circuit breaker that opens both legs.  Opening only one leg of a shipboard circuit would still leave you vulnerable to shock or fire, as current could continue to flow.  A European power strip (available in the US) has a double pole breaker, and is what ships use for crew use.