Butler Service in the Haven

[dandelpino]

3 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

hmm don't recall not having a choice being part of my questions, or forcing themselves on me either but ok.

 

I guess I just don't understand your question. A butler is an integral part of the Haven offering but no one is required to make use of them. Why would anyone be more inclined to book a Haven suite by having features taken away? 

[spanishguy1970]

Just now, dandelpino said:

 

I guess I just don't understand your question. A butler is an integral part of the Haven offering but no one is required to make use of them. Why would anyone be more inclined to book a Haven suite by having features taken away? 

because if you read my question i am specifically asking people whom on other threads have said they are tempted to bid or consider the Haven but are turned off by the idea of the butler because they don't want them or have any use for them, so if they could say NO to a butler from the start would they feel inclined to consider a Haven suite.

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, spanishguy1970 said:

I have read on other threads that some people would like to book a suite in the Haven but they don't want a Butler. I wonder, if you had a choice to forfeit the butler service before your cruise, would someone be more prone to booking a Haven Suite?

 

Also, if someone wins a bid for a Haven suite does it come with a butler? and if it does, would you be more interested in bidding if you knew the butler is not part of the service when you bid?.

 

just curious.

The Butler and Cabin Steward split duties of servicing your suite morning and night. Do not burden your steward with having to check things normally done by the Butler (because your steward will get punished if the suite is not set up to standards in all respects). 

[spanishguy1970]

2 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

The Butler and Cabin Steward split duties of servicing your suite morning and night. Do not burden your steward with having to check things normally done by the Butler (because your steward will get punished if the suite is not set up to standards in all respects). 

Gotcha

[ChiefMateJRK]

This is one of the funniest CC threads in quite a while.  So now we have a person who is not happy because of too much "pampering" in the Haven?  🤣

[BirdTravels]

2 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

Gotcha

We were just in the Haven and our cabin steward confided in us that being a steward in the Haven is a miserable job. She rather service 16 rooms out in steerage versus the 10 rooms she has in the Haven. The level of scrutiny and how hard the management comes down on the stewards if a Haven cabin is not perfect, makes it a job that no one wants. 
 

I had asked a question about how I would like the fruit bowl up on the counter and she told me she would be penalized it it wasn’t on the table in a specific orientation. 
 

Back to the butler, they have specific requirements too. But dropping the butler means that the steward would have to make sure that those items are equally “perfect”. 

[KeithJenner]

9 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

We were just in the Haven and our cabin steward confided in us that being a steward in the Haven is a miserable job. She rather service 16 rooms out in steerage versus the 10 rooms she has in the Haven. The level of scrutiny and how hard the management comes down on the stewards if a Haven cabin is not perfect, makes it a job that no one wants. 
 

I had asked a question about how I would like the fruit bowl up on the counter and she told me she would be penalized it it wasn’t on the table in a specific orientation. 
 

Back to the butler, they have specific requirements too. But dropping the butler means that the steward would have to make sure that those items are equally “perfect”. 

Perhaps having everything 'perfect' in your room could also be an option you select. 🙂

[spanishguy1970]

21 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

This is one of the funniest CC threads in quite a while.  So now we have a person who is not happy because of too much "pampering" in the Haven?  🤣

LOL and here you are, classic JRK, i was waiting for you my dear. 🙂

[cabincop]

2 hours ago, Captain-John said:

 

I'm afraid I wholeheartedly disagree and how they are salaried should be absolutely nothing to do with the guest.

 

To your latter point (not on NCL) - I have had a butler who ignored a direct request not to escort us to dinner, not to escort us off the ship etc. - butlers should be able to 'gauge' the level of service their guests require and in fact that overbearing approach actually detracted from our experience, and did not enhance it. No tip was given. I find it heartwarming that so many people in the world are seemingly so generous - paying for a service not received a great example - but I'm not wired that way and it shouldn't be expected. It's really unfair of the cruise lines to 'guilt trip' guests like this, to help lower their own bottom line.

Your butler does not escort you to dinner or off the ship. I think you confused butler & concierge 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, LaCal said:

Did your butler do 

things for you during the week? 
 

Like bring treats, meals, etc?

 

If so they deserved some kind of tip 

My Butler brought snacks every day.  I didn't want them, and told him so.  He brought them, anyway.  I also asked him to remove the welcome champagne bottle and bucket on the first day.  Stayed in lukewarm water in the bucket for 2 days.  Didn't see him except the first day, and several times he was hanging around my cabin the last day, making certain I ran into him (almost like he was following me). Hmmmm...wonder why?

 

I didn't tip.

Edited September 12, 2022 by graphicguy

[skeeter195]

2 hours ago, Captain-John said:

I'm afraid I wholeheartedly disagree and how they are salaried should be absolutely nothing to do with the guest.

Captain John. I think this is where Americans differ from from the UK and other countries around the world at times.  The first time I visited London and I tipped our server $31 when our bill was $69(I gave a $100 bill and said that I did not need change) I thought that he was going to hit the floor he was so happy.  He explained to me that the service industry workers get paid a much better wage before tips than Americans do(BTW a servers wage in America before tips puts them well below the poverty line).  Saying that about half of the time no tip is ever given, which he is perfectly fine with because of his wage.  

 

The butlers on NCL are like an American server, they have to rely on that tip to support themselves.  Again though if they are bad, rude, or just cannot handle their job than no tip is needed to be given.  

 

When you book a haven room, you get a butler.  Imagine if 4 of the rooms a butler services for the week do not want services, that would be a big hit to their wallet or pocketbook.  Butlers are respected and desirable jobs, with that comes a nicer payday. 

 

I am not rich by any means but I have been in or around the service industry for over 40 years and understand and appreciate good service.  I tip well when deserved.  When I splurge on the haven I understand my responsibility to the service people who work there. 

[Captain-John]

5 minutes ago, cabincop said:

Your butler does not escort you to dinner or off the ship. I think you confused butler & concierge 

 

No I didn't. This was MSC cruises, not NCL, as I mentioned. On some of their ships, the restaurant was situated outside the 'ship withinin a ship' area, and commonly an escort is offered as it is not a straightforward route. But I was very familiar with the ship, did not want to be tied to a particular dining time and declined the escort. He came to the cabin anyway, and the subsequent evening, despite me saying not to.

 

[raitch]

This kind of question gets into the weeds really fast. Would I get a Haven room cheaper without a butler? Can I opt out of the concierge for $50 off? What about the two hot tubs- I never go in those… can I get some FCC? 
 

And if you think about it the other way… then the butler service becomes an add-on in the Haven for additional $$. Which means the people yelling about nickel & dining on NCL yell even louder.  

[Captain-John]

2 minutes ago, skeeter195 said:

I tip well when deserved.  When I splurge on the haven I understand my responsibility to the service people who work there. 

 

I guess there is also a fundamental difference in business model across the pond - I have already splurged on the Haven or whatever suite product by virture of the (much) higher base fare. The fact a proprotion of that increased fare does not go towards the remuneration of the butler is a choice of the cruise line, and the line has an expectation the gap will be made up by the guest (you term it a responsbility, I might say 'guilt trip'), but I find it bizarre to operate this way, and it is clearly advantageous to the line. They do this with DSC too (a seperate debate I know).

 

It is fair to say 'when in Rome' -  I find this way of business very tacky but, I am aware of it, therefore I would comply in say a US restaurant and tip 15-20% as would be customary, but I absolutely do not understand or agree with it. It disguises the true price amongst other things. But I know it's expected, and I do it.

 

However - in the butler example - his actions negatively affected my experience and therefore any 'base' tip I would give to comply with the 'guilt trip' was erased.

[cabincop]

7 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

 

No I didn't. This was MSC cruises, not NCL, as I mentioned. On some of their ships, the restaurant was situated outside the 'ship withinin a ship' area, and commonly an escort is offered as it is not a straightforward route. But I was very familiar with the ship, did not want to be tied to a particular dining time and declined the escort. He came to the cabin anyway, and the subsequent evening, despite me saying not to.

 

So why post it here if it was MSC? 

[Captain-John]

5 minutes ago, cabincop said:

So why post it here if it was MSC? 

That's your only response to not reading my post properly? Ha. I clearly said it wasn't NCL in my post.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Captain-John

[PATRLR]

43 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

This is one of the funniest CC threads in quite a while.  So now we have a person who is not happy because of too much "pampering" in the Haven?  🤣

Who said they weren't happy because of too much pampering?  I read a lot of people saying they prefer not to be pampered.  Why do you need to turn everything into a negative?  

The OP asked a very legit question, it's been a very reasonable discussion and now you are trying to turn it negative when it hasn't been negative.

 

[skeeter195]

3 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

 

I guess there is also a fundamental difference in business model across the pond - I have already splurged on the Haven or whatever suite product by virture of the (much) higher base fare. The fact a proprotion of that increased fare does not go towards the remuneration of the butler is a choice of the cruise line, and the line has an expectation the gap will be made up by the guest (you term it a responsbility, I might say 'guilt trip'), but I find it bizarre to operate this way, and it is clearly advantageous to the line. They do this with DSC too (a seperate debate I know).

 

It is fair to say 'when in Rome' -  I find this way of business very tacky but, I am aware of it, therefore I would comply in say a US restaurant and tip 15-20% as would be customary, but I absolutely do not understand or agree with it. It disguises the true price amongst other things. But I know it's expected, and I do it.

 

However - in the butler example - his actions negatively affected my experience and therefore any 'base' tip I would give to comply with the 'guilt trip' was erased.

 

I do not disagree with you John.  I think you said it best "when in Rome".  I was just trying to give you an idea of service industry wages if you were not aware.  Believe me and many others when we say that the "resort fees" that are charged in Las Vegas and other places now are a total money grab.  Unfortunately once one property got away with it all of the other properties soon joined in.

 

Back to the OP.  You can ask your butler for no services but I have never seen a rate for not having a butler.  

[Captain-John]

Just now, skeeter195 said:

I was just trying to give you an idea of service industry wages if you were not aware

 

Thank you, and yes, aware but will never 'understand.' 🙂 I've also noted the resort fee trend and I believe some NYC properties with no pool, no gym, etc. also have the gall to charge it!

 

Just to keep it simple, this is how I think (made up numbers):

 

US base price per person: $700 + $120 tax + $180 expected tip/DSC whatever.

UK price: $1000 USD (tax included, tip/DSC included - no additional expected).

 

Question is - would a US consumer really be put off by the higher 'base' price? I guess the answer is yes, or the model would have changed years ago. Likewise with the resort fees example - room rate is $200 plus $40 resort fee. Or - room rate is $240 (no resort fee). I would still stay in the property at $240 headline price...?

 

[KeithJenner]

I absolutely agree with the "when in Rome" thing.

 

However, the concept of tipping someone if I don't use their services still seems odd. I rarely use a concierge in a hotel and in those cases I don't tip them. If I don't drink in the hotel bar then I don't nip in there to tip the servers anyway.

 

Why is that different from not tipping a butler on a ship if they aren't used? Genuine question.

 

I suspect that one answer would be that they are only expecting some people to use those services in a hotel, so the pay wouldn't be based on them receiving a tip from everyone. However, I imagine that the same applies on a ship. If the butler is reliant on absolutely everyone tipping them then it wouldn't be such a sought after job, as it is almost certain that some people don't do so. My guess is that the tips work out fine with some people tipping nothing, some a little bit and some giving the amounts that you hear talked about own this board.

 

And, just to avoid the inevitable misunderstandings, I will clarify that I do in fact tip the butler a small amount for the few things that they do (even though I don't particularly want them anyway).

[dandelpino]

1 hour ago, spanishguy1970 said:

because if you read my question i am specifically asking people whom on other threads have said they are tempted to bid or consider the Haven but are turned off by the idea of the butler because they don't want them or have any use for them, so if they could say NO to a butler from the start would they feel inclined to consider a Haven suite.

 

I guess that's the part I don't understand - why would someone be turned off by an optional feature? If you don't want it you simply don't use it. For example, I have no need for a stocked minbar in the room so I send an email to the Haven concierge desk asking for all the chargeable items to be removed. You can similarly email the concierge desk to inform the butler you want zero interaction. I guess what I don't understand is how specifically disabling a feature from the start makes anything more appealing. Is it really that cumbersome to send a single email specifying your preferences?

[Captain-John]

14 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I absolutely agree with the "when in Rome" thing.

 

However, the concept of tipping someone if I don't use their services still seems odd. I rarely use a concierge in a hotel and in those cases I don't tip them. If I don't drink in the hotel bar then I don't nip in there to tip the servers anyway.

 

Absolutely. A tip is 'over and above' for me, and for a service rendered - not just routine course of doing one's job or as you say, expecting a tip when no service is actually rendered or wanted! 'when in Rome' -  I was specifically referring to US restaurants as I believe the servers are taxed by the IRS on an 'assumed' level of tips etc. which seems quite punitive.

 

I will continue to 'tip' (or is that remunerate) relative to the quality and quantity of service I experience (or, require).

Edited September 12, 2022 by Captain-John

[PATRLR]

30 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

 

Thank you, and yes, aware but will never 'understand.' 🙂 I've also noted the resort fee trend and I believe some NYC properties with no pool, no gym, etc. also have the gall to charge it!

 

Just to keep it simple, this is how I think (made up numbers):

 

US base price per person: $700 + $120 tax + $180 expected tip/DSC whatever.

UK price: $1000 USD (tax included, tip/DSC included - no additional expected).

 

Question is - would a US consumer really be put off by the higher 'base' price? I guess the answer is yes, or the model would have changed years ago. Likewise with the resort fees example - room rate is $200 plus $40 resort fee. Or - room rate is $240 (no resort fee). I would still stay in the property at $240 headline price...?

 

I don't think it's a case of US consumer being put off.  It's a case of the competition can position their cruise cheaper than mine if I use the UK model, therefore, I have to use the US model (only to reference the numbers you presented).

If the US government would regulate the pricing the way the UK does, I don't think that would impact people cruising one bit.  But we'll never see that here, you know, free country, free markets and all that BS (yeah, right).

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 minute ago, PATRLR said:

But we'll never see that here, you know, free country, free markets and all that BS (yeah, right).

Free country is BS?!  Yikes!!!!  Some of us have family who died to make/keep this a free country.

Edited September 12, 2022 by ChiefMateJRK

[spanishguy1970]

22 minutes ago, dandelpino said:

 

I guess that's the part I don't understand - why would someone be turned off by an optional feature? If you don't want it you simply don't use it. For example, I have no need for a stocked minbar in the room so I send an email to the Haven concierge desk asking for all the chargeable items to be removed. You can similarly email the concierge desk to inform the butler you want zero interaction. I guess what I don't understand is how specifically disabling a feature from the start makes anything more appealing. Is it really that cumbersome to send a single email specifying your preferences?

a mini bar is very different from a Butler, a Butler has been hired to do a specific job and some feel by dismissing him or her, you are taking away their job. My question simply is, if someone has the option of simply asking for that person not to be there while making the reservation it saves time and grievance for dismissing that person , hence my original question. I get what you are saying, i am going by threads of people who have said they would consider the Haven if they can get rid of the Butler completely. If someone wants the Butler they have nothing to worry about, this is meant as a hypothetical scenario for those who don't.