FCC no more

[watsonbeau]

Looking on the Cunard website after spotting a post on the book of faces it looks to be there is now no FCC for quarantine days in cabin during a voyage or if you have to cancel because you have/had Covid in the 10 days prior to sailing so fail the pre cruise health questionnaire automatically if you put Yes. Has anyone else picked up on this ? Or am I reading it all wrong ? Looks like 5 Sept was when updated on the website.

 

 

[Underwatr]

It's included in the (US) cruise contract.

https://www.cunard.com/en-us/advice-and-policies/passage-contract

 

6. PUBLIC HEALTH AND COVID-19 PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES; UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF RISKS.

 

(e) You agree that if at any time within fourteen (14) days prior to embarkation, You test positive for COVID-19, exhibit signs or symptoms of COVID-19, have had close contact with a person confirmed or suspected as having COVID-19, or the Carrier otherwise determines, in its sole discretion, that You are unfit to board because of any communicable illness, the Carrier will deny boarding to You as well as Your traveling companions.  Under these circumstances, unless the Carrier determines that the Guest has failed to comply with the Carrier’s COVID-19 Guest Protocols or this Passage Contract, any Guest denied boarding will be entitled to a future cruise credit equal in value to the amount Guest paid to the Carrier, subject to Guest providing verification satisfactory to the Carrier of results of tests administered by providers other than those retained by the Carrier.  For further details, refer to the Carrier’s Refund and Cancellation Policy for COVID-19 located on its website.  Under no circumstances shall the Carrier have any other liability for any compensation or other damages whatsoever including, but not limited to, compensation for consequential lodging or travel.

 

(f) You further understand and agree that if, after boarding, and even if You have fully complied with all Carrier’s COVID-19 Guest Protocols, You test positive for COVID-19 or exhibit signs or symptoms of COVID-19, the Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine You as well as Your traveling companions, or take other steps which the Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, any such Guest who is disembarked, refused re-boarding, or quarantined shall be entitled to a prorated future cruise credit for the unused portion of the Cruise Fare. Each such Guest is responsible for all related costs and fines including, without limitation, consequential travel expense and lodging. Under no circumstances shall the Carrier be liable to any such Guest for any costs, damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Guest.

[delondin]

I just read it and for the uk it seems it is now all to be claimed on travel insurance and no mention of fcc. 

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, delondin said:

I just read it and for the uk it seems it is now all to be claimed on travel insurance and no mention of fcc. 

I am sure that insurance will pay out?

[WestonOne]

I noticed the same today when I was checking up on things for my upcoming TA.  It is not clear to me an insurance company will pay out if you are confined to the cabin, though they should if you had to cancel the trip entirely.   I can see them claiming you still travelled, got meals and so on.  "So your holiday was not all you hoped it would be?  We don't pay out for that."

EDIT:  I have just spoken to my insurance company and they would not pay anything if we were confined to the cabin, and nor is there an option to extend the insurance to cover it.

Edited September 13, 2022 by WestonOne
More info

[WestonOne]

I have found an alternative insurance that would cover confinement to the cabin.   Of course, it also covers everything my existing insurance does, but that is all I need added.

Cost: £1094
Maximum Payout for confinement: £1000

I think I will give that a miss!  However, it does mean it is worth checking whatever policy you have, since some will and some won't.

[watsonbeau]

It does seem rather unfair that UK rules differ from US.

[Underwatr]

56 minutes ago, watsonbeau said:

It does seem rather unfair that UK rules differ from US.

This hardly the first example of that.  US Bookings are cancelable with full refund until 120 days before sailing. UK bookings often include flights to/from the ship.

[Megabear2]

10 hours ago, delondin said:

I just read it and for the uk it seems it is now all to be claimed on travel insurance and no mention of fcc. 

This is a very tricky situation with UK insurance and Cunard. They and their stablemate P&O are fully aware there is no insurance policy on sale in the UK (including their recommended insurer Holiday Extras) which covers quarantine or offloading of anyone who does not have a positive covid PCR test.  This was debated and discussed with Carnival House and the CEO of Holiday Extras earlier this year. Unless there has been a very major change by UK insurance providers close contacts affected in anyway will not be able to claim on travel insurance as no policies cover it. 

 

Moreover the insurers state a confirmatory PCR test is required to claim on covid cover and these are virtually impossible to source in the UK once you have taken a lateral flow test with a positive result. My understanding is you would only be able to use a purchased postal PCR for confirmation as neither the NHS or private clinics will undertake an in person PCR test if you have symptoms.

 

There has been a huge amount of debate on this issue on the P&O board with no real answer from Carnival House forthcoming, in fact my last correspondence on the issue remains outstanding with the CEO office telling me their legal department would be in touch shortly.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Megabear2

[Windsurfboy]

Clearly a short sighted policy, encouraging people not to be tested or admit to covid. 

[watsonbeau]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Clearly a short sighted policy, encouraging people not to be tested or admit to covid. 

Absolutely agree. Either treat everything as normal, so treat as if a common cold, so no tests or quarantine or denied boarding - in which case nobody would expect FCC for a cold, or if they must persist with treating Covid as if it’s the plague, then they should continue with FCC - after all its their ruling about catching it before you travel within 10 days means the system automatically cancelling and it’s generally their requirement to quarantine onboard.
 

I do appreciate different countries may complicate things and also COVID’s severity can vary a lot, many of us who have had it may have had just a mild dose whereas others have obviously been far worse. But either it’s treated like a cold or it’s treated like the plague !
 

As it stands with insurance - or rather lack of it, people are just going to lie on the health questionnaire to avoid being cancelled by Cunard and will doubtless do same onboard - if they get symptoms but are not unwell enough to require the medics they aren’t going to say anything. Not saying that’s the right thing to do but it will happen. 
 

I suspect this is because they are losing money by giving FCC since it’s not new money, just recycling existing £££ to another cruise if cancelled before departure. And by no FCC if you are confined to cabin, they lose out on nothing really.

 

They are certainly not encouraging honesty or encouraging people to cruise - so now every cruise you have the Sword of Damocles hanging over you.  From what I see I think P&O are doing same. 

I think megabear2 has spelt out the situation well. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by watsonbeau

[delondin]

37 minutes ago, watsonbeau said:

Absolutely agree. Either treat everything as normal, so treat as if a common cold, so no tests or quarantine or denied boarding - in which case nobody would expect FCC for a cold, or if they must persist with treating Covid as if it’s the plague, then they should continue with FCC - after all its their ruling about catching it before you travel within 10 days means the system automatically cancelling and it’s generally their requirement to quarantine onboard.
 

I do appreciate different countries may complicate things and also COVID’s severity can vary a lot, many of us who have had it may have had just a mild dose whereas others have obviously been far worse. But either it’s treated like a cold or it’s treated like the plague !
 

As it stands with insurance - or rather lack of it, people are just going to lie on the health questionnaire to avoid being cancelled by Cunard and will doubtless do same onboard - if they get symptoms but are not unwell enough to require the medics they aren’t going to say anything. Not saying that’s the right thing to do but it will happen. 
 

I suspect this is because they are losing money by giving FCC since it’s not new money, just recycling existing £££ to another cruise if cancelled before departure. And by no FCC if you are confined to cabin, they lose out on nothing really.

 

They are certainly not encouraging honesty or encouraging people to cruise - so now every cruise you have the Sword of Damocles hanging over you.  From what I see I think P&O are doing same. 

I think megabear2 has spelt out the situation well. 

Exactly this. It is encouraging dishonesty. Also I’m not sure insurance would pay out if you were a close contact of someone 10 days ago. However you would still be denied boarding. 

[LittleFish1976]

 

The Cunard Australia website hasn't been updated since 21st July and still reads as follows:

 

'Testing positive before your cruise departure date.

If you test positive for Covid-19 within 10 days of your holiday, or are not permitted to travel following completion of the Health Declaration you will unfortunately not be allowed to travel, but we will offer a non-refundable Future Cruise Credit (FCC) to the value of the voyage. We will also automatically refund any pre-voyage purchases made through My Cunard.'

[Underwatr]

What counts is probably what the contract of passage says on the day you book.

[Megabear2]

11 hours ago, delondin said:

Exactly this. It is encouraging dishonesty. Also I’m not sure insurance would pay out if you were a close contact of someone 10 days ago. However you would still be denied boarding. 

You are correct. Close contact within 10 days will not pay out.  To get insurance pay out you must test positive on a PCR.

[Megabear2]

7 hours ago, Underwatr said:

What counts is probably what the contract of passage says on the day you book.

Booking date is apparently superceded by the new T&Cs in the UK.  There is as far as I am aware at least one P &O future passenger who has taken legal advice on this issue.  

[Underwatr]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Booking date is apparently superceded by the new T&Cs in the UK. 

Yeah, that shouldn't fly. "We reserve the right to unilaterally change the contract without recourse."

If the passenger has the right to cancel for refund upon a change in the terms it might be different.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Underwatr

[Megabear2]

5 minutes ago, Underwatr said:

Yeah, that shouldn't fly. "We reserve the right to unilaterally change the contract without recourse."

Lots of people in UK currently being take it or leave it over the changes to FCC and also ability to move a cruise if unable to travel.  My BIL has one such Cunard cruise and told he has no recourse as the t&cs state just that, ie change of contract is quite legal.

[ace2542]

11 minutes ago, Underwatr said:

Yeah, that shouldn't fly. "We reserve the right to unilaterally change the contract without recourse."

If the passenger has the right to cancel for refund upon a change in the terms it might be different.

But is not worth bring the lawsuit unless it is no win no fee and it might not be in UK. Could be a big legal bill if they lose

[Windsurfboy]

Small claims court (mcol , make claim online) has a fixed maximum fee of £100, refunded on winning. Simple no need for lawyers . The max  claim is £10000 but should cover most cases. Seems way to go if you loose money by Cunard change of T&Cs after you book

 

[North West Newbie]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

Small claims court (mcol , make claim online) has a fixed maximum fee of £100, refunded on winning. Simple no need for lawyers . The max  claim is £10000 but should cover most cases. Seems way to go if you loose money by Cunard change of T&Cs after you book

 

 

Can you please provide more detail to support this? According to https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees, the issue fee for a claim between £5,000.01 and £10,000 is £455. Plus, if the claim goes to trial a further hearing fee of £346 is payable based on claims over £3,000 see page 7 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093005/EX50_web_0722.pdf.

[Windsurfboy]

Looks like fees have gone up