Check your onboard spending account - double charged by Cunard QM2

[buchanan101]

Just flown back from NYC after a westbound crossing on QM2.

 

Each day, after the onboard credit had run out, my credit card was charged once for purchases that day.

 

At the end of the trip my card was charged again for the total of the daily charges.

 

Cunard contacted - this is with them to (hopefully) sort

[Host Hattie]

The daily charges were probably just holds or pending charges, you won't actually have been charged until the early morning of the day of departure.

[buchanan101]

6 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

The daily charges were probably just holds or pending charges, you won't actually have been charged until the early morning of the day of departure.

Nope - still all on my card 8 days after the end of the voyage.  The final (total) charge was made the day after the voyage. 

 

(The only holding charge, refunded at a gain of 2p to me due to currency rate changes, was the $1 to get the credit card on the system)

 

 

[BklynBoy8]

We didn't not experience any of this on last sailing. 

 

Straight forward charges as we purchased and posted.

 

Has it been something particular to some people or particular cards?

 

[Teddy123]

Almost certainly there are holding charges daily and the full amount at the end of the cruise.  I have complained to Cunard that they do nothing to remove the holding charge even when they have taken the full amount - because on a debit card the holding charge is like real money.  They say they can't remove them - my bank says they can (but they won't).  Cunard (and P&O) therefore just wait until the holding charges "time out" and disappear - which took 30 days in my case.

[buchanan101]

14 minutes ago, Teddy123 said:

Almost certainly there are holding charges daily and the full amount at the end of the cruise.  I have complained to Cunard that they do nothing to remove the holding charge even when they have taken the full amount - because on a debit card the holding charge is like real money.  They say they can't remove them - my bank says they can (but they won't).  Cunard (and P&O) therefore just wait until the holding charges "time out" and disappear - which took 30 days in my case.

Ok - it could be that I paid by Curve fronting Barclaycard - Curve is a debit card, but I use it as it charges  no currency transaction fee and  a good exchange rate 

 

Seems that the system is wrong - either charge people daily OR at the end of the voyage; given that they don't want people to run up bills that they can't pay, then just charge daily - no need for the final amount

Wonder how much working capital that gives Carnival across all its ships...?

 

 

[Teddy123]

Because it's only a holding charge, Carnival actually get nothing.  The charge just ties up money in the customer's account with no benefit to Carnival.  So a nuisance to the customer that Carnival could, but won't, avoid.

[LB_NJ]

On other cruise lines I have had my credit card charged multiple times and then the charges were cancelled.  Not sure what happens with debit cards.

 

In the USA there are legal protections when using credit cards that do not apply to debit cards.

[Teddy123]

The same (more protection for credit cards) is true in the UK, but my debit card gives a good exchange rate, no fee for dollar transactions, and 1% cashback - so I use it and even after having the holding money tied up for a month, it's worth it.

[KJBL]

Out of interest - what would happen if the holding charges 'used up' the available balance on a passenger's credit card, so that there isn't enough available when Cunard then claim the full amount at the end of the cruise?    

 

So - using random numbers as an example! - let's say a passenger is using a credit card with an available balance of 2,500. They spend 2,000 on board - all of which is 'held'. They would then have only 500 available balance 'left' when Cunard try to claim the full 2000 balance. What would happen? Assuming, for the sake of the hypothetical scenario, that the passenger does not have access to another credit/debit card or cash...?

[lissie]

I've done 2 long voyages on QE this year. I was nervous using my debit card for on-board transactions because of the hold situation - but in fact it was perfect. Cunard put a hold of $1 pre-boarding and every few days updated the amount - still a hold. At the end of sectors (we were informed on board) - they converted that hold to charged - I never had  more money committed to them than what I owed. We also were able to pay with some excess US$ cash we had, and to swap my partner's card in for one of our accounts when my funds ran low. 

[lissie]

31 minutes ago, KJBL said:

Out of interest - what would happen if the holding charges 'used up' the available balance on a passenger's credit card, so that there isn't enough available when Cunard then claim the full amount at the end of the cruise?    

 

So - using random numbers as an example! - let's say a passenger is using a credit card with an available balance of 2,500. They spend 2,000 on board - all of which is 'held'. They would then have only 500 available balance 'left' when Cunard try to claim the full 2000 balance. What would happen? Assuming, for the sake of the hypothetical scenario, that the passenger does not have access to another credit/debit card or cash...?

That would work on my debit/credit cards - the $2000 would go from held to spent - the $500 would always be available  This is from my experience on QE this year - because I found it very hard to find a definitive answer to this question 

[lissie]

3 hours ago, LB_NJ said:

On other cruise lines I have had my credit card charged multiple times and then the charges were cancelled.  Not sure what happens with debit cards.

 

In the USA there are legal protections when using credit cards that do not apply to debit cards.

Are you really sure - I think this is an urban myth. I have a debit card and a credit card - they are both Visa cards  -so the rules of Visa applies. whether I'm using the bank's credit or my own funds is irrelevant. 

 

I just came back from 3.5 months overseas and pretty much used my debit card exclusively because the rate is better and the card controls much better (I get a notification as soon as the card is used and can cancel the card in the app).  i researched this extensively. 

[lissie]

6 hours ago, buchanan101 said:

Ok - it could be that I paid by Curve fronting Barclaycard - Curve is a debit card, but I use it as it charges  no currency transaction fee and  a good exchange rate 

 

Seems that the system is wrong - either charge people daily OR at the end of the voyage; given that they don't want people to run up bills that they can't pay, then just charge daily - no need for the final amount

Wonder how much working capital that gives Carnival across all its ships...?

 

 

That's not how it worked with my NZ-issued wise.com  debit card. I suspect this is a bank issue rather than a Cunard/Carnival problem 

[Teddy123]

Clearly, when a merchant initiates a holding charge the bank must allow a certain period for the merchant to change it to a real charge.  Different banks may have different periods before the holding charge "times out" and is no longer active (so the money is released).  However, it IS a Carnival problem because they could a) remove the holding charge themselves when they make the actual one or b) simply turn the holding charge into an actual one rather than making an additional charge.  However, they do neither and simply let the customer be inconvenienced while waiting for the time out.

[LittleFish1976]

24 minutes ago, lissie said:

I've done 2 long voyages on QE this year. I was nervous using my debit card for on-board transactions because of the hold situation - but in fact it was perfect. Cunard put a hold of $1 pre-boarding and every few days updated the amount - still a hold. At the end of sectors (we were informed on board) - they converted that hold to charged - I never had  more money committed to them than what I owed. We also were able to pay with some excess US$ cash we had, and to swap my partner's card in for one of our accounts when my funds ran low. 

 

Thanks, lissie, that's a good, clear explanation of the process  - that they *convert* the hold to a charge. The charge is not *in addition* to the hold.

 

So your credit limit doesn't need to be twice the expenditure!

 

[Teddy123]

Converting the hold to a charge is NOT the way Cunard did it for me or the OP.  There was, essentially, a second charge and a need for double the credit until the hold timed out. Perhaps Cunard do it differently in different circumstances.

[LB_NJ]

24 minutes ago, lissie said:

Are you really sure - I think this is an urban myth. I have a debit card and a credit card - they are both Visa cards  -so the rules of Visa applies. whether I'm using the bank's credit or my own funds is irrelevant. 

 

 

If you live in the United States, there is federal law that specifically applies to credit cards that do not necessarily apply to debit cards.  Look at 15 U.S. Code § 1643 - Liability of holder of credit card.

[lissie]

3 hours ago, Teddy123 said:

Converting the hold to a charge is NOT the way Cunard did it for me or the OP.  There was, essentially, a second charge and a need for double the credit until the hold timed out. Perhaps Cunard do it differently in different circumstances.

I suspect this is the way the bank is handling it not the way Cunard is charging it.  

[lissie]

4 hours ago, LB_NJ said:

 

If you live in the United States, there is federal law that specifically applies to credit cards that do not necessarily apply to debit cards.  Look at 15 U.S. Code § 1643 - Liability of holder of credit card.

Don't live in the USA - there zero difference between debit/credit card fraud protection in most of the world outside of the US 

[Host Hattie]

3 hours ago, lissie said:

Don't live in the USA - there zero difference between debit/credit card fraud protection in most of the world outside of the US 

There is greater protection with Credit cards in the UK as well.

[Teddy123]

5 hours ago, lissie said:

I suspect this is the way the bank is handling it not the way Cunard is charging it.  

No, there's no doubt at all it's Cunard.  I - and the OP (see the start of this thread) - have a number of small (holding) charges during the cruise then one big one for the total at the end.  There's no way this can be down to anything but what Cunard do.  A bank wouldn't possibly make this happen.  Cunard are the guilty party.

[lissie]

46 minutes ago, Teddy123 said:

No, there's no doubt at all it's Cunard.  I - and the OP (see the start of this thread) - have a number of small (holding) charges during the cruise then one big one for the total at the end.  There's no way this can be down to anything but what Cunard do.  A bank wouldn't possibly make this happen.  Cunard are the guilty party.

While I had one holding charge whose amount was increased to reflect my on-board spend - and then converted to spent amount when the account was settled - also Cunard 

[Victoria2]

2 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

There is greater protection with Credit cards in the UK as well.

There is, but in relation to post #20 I was under the impression debit cards were treated slightly differently in the UK. 

Am I wrong to think this?

[carolina_yankee]

14 hours ago, KJBL said:

Out of interest - what would happen if the holding charges 'used up' the available balance on a passenger's credit card, so that there isn't enough available when Cunard then claim the full amount at the end of the cruise?    

 

So - using random numbers as an example! - let's say a passenger is using a credit card with an available balance of 2,500. They spend 2,000 on board - all of which is 'held'. They would then have only 500 available balance 'left' when Cunard try to claim the full 2000 balance. What would happen? Assuming, for the sake of the hypothetical scenario, that the passenger does not have access to another credit/debit card or cash...?

 

I have seen this in some resort hotels, and I believe Disney (resorts, not cruise) as well - they will put daily holds for incurred charges and then do a full charge at the end, so they even warned you that you had to have twice the needed credit limit available. I think it eventually got ironed out, and this was three years ago with Disney, so they may have changed, too.

 

At the very least, transparency is required. Once I got annoyed enough that I simply put cash down each day before the hold was processed so they would have to deal with the cash and the staffing to process it.