Check your onboard spending account - double charged by Cunard QM2

[Teddy123]

21 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

But the OP is insisting that these are not holds !

Yes - that does seem to be a different issue.  I (and I believe everyone else in the UK) have a temporary double charging that is unnecessary, potentially costly and could easily be avoided by Cunard (and P&O where exactly the same happens).  The OP seems to have a permanent double charging, which is indeed incorrect.

[ExArkie]

My perspective, based on my experience with US credit cards: Cunard appears to be processing the debit card in the same way that they do credit cards, which is probably an error, but certainly not correct. 

For a credit card, the hold is placed by the merchant on the front end and remains a “pending” charge until the merchant makes it an official charge. Doing nothing to a pending charge means that it eventually goes away without being due for payment, but it does reduce one’s credit limit while pending. The merchant may ignore the holds, allowing them to expire, and issue a separate charge to the card for the amount. They may also inform the card issuer that the holds can be removed.  
 

The difference with a debit card is that a hold issued by the merchant goes against the bank balance, not against a credit limit, unless it is handled differently in placing the hold. In this instance, it appears that Cunard did not know this was a debit card and handled the hold as they would a credit card. Hence, the “hold” charge is no longer a hold in the same context as for a credit card. It is quite possible that the double charge was because Cunard assumed the initial holds would be uncharged if they were just allowed to expire. Perhaps they even told the card issuer to remove the holds, which did not happen because, between the two systems, they failed to find any holds.
 

To me, it sounds as though Cunard’s system did not recognize this as a debit card and screwed up the processing. 
 

This is consistent with the explanation quoted above from Cunard. I missed any follow up as to their response when the screen shots were provided as they suggested. Was that posted? (Just kind of read through this quickly.)

 

[LB_NJ]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:01 AM, Teddy123 said:

Just checked with my bank again and ONLY the merchant can remove a pending charge - not the customer as Cunard said in this reply.  So more nonsense from Cunard.

 

This is NOT unique to Cunard.  Royal Carribean does this (daily charges show up as pending and then slowly fall off) as well as many hotels.  

[Windsurfboy]

2 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

We use Amex.

Dead easy, no hassle and marvellous in letting you know if your card has been cloned/misused  where ever you are in the world and great at holding challenges off the account until settled one way or the other.

 

I use Amex for sterling, but it charges 2.5% for non sterling, hence Halifax when abroad.  No worries with any UK credit cards as the are all legally responsible for any cloning/fraud on your credit card.

[Victoria2]

22 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

I use Amex for sterling, but it charges 2.5% for non sterling, hence Halifax when abroad.  No worries with any UK credit cards as the are all legally responsible for any cloning/fraud on your credit card.

I know they are, but the speed of Amex, picking up a possible fraudulent [it was] transaction, phoning us, blocking the card and couriering a new one to us, whilst we were on holiday  in the US,  all under 24hrs was very impressive.

 

We will stick with Amex.

[lissie]

7 hours ago, Solent Richard said:

 

Good afternoon Lissie.

 

May I refer you to my comment # 26 particularly the requirement to keep larger amounts in one's current account.

 

To make a fair comparison of credit card  exchange rates one really needs to know which cards are being used.

This has nothing to do with my current account.  The debit card I use is Wise I believe Revolut is similar in the UK? Its not connected to my bank in anyway wise.com  I can spend no more from it than I fund it by 

 

I fund it from my current account - and I put as much money in as I'm comfortable loosing - I can add more funds at any time and they are available with 2 hours or 2 days (over the weekend in NZ). So it certainly doesn't start with my trip budget in it! 

 

Are you confusing bank issued eftpos cards? These I never take out of the country - every debit card I've ever used overseas is a Visa or Mastercard . I could use my debit Visa from my bank to directly access my account - but I don't  - they charge the same crazy percentage on top of the exchange rate 2.2% at the moment . 

Edited November 5, 2022 by lissie

[Teddy123]

This isn't really on topic for the thread, but for those interested in why I use a debit card: no foreign transaction fee, Mastercard rates and 1% cashback.  It's true I need to keep more cash in the current account, but the bank has a savings account paying 2.1% (not quite the best available).  The banking app lets me transfer between savings and current accounts in a few seconds, so I don't need to keep a huge buffer in the current account.  Even with what I consider Cunard's unreasonable methods, the pending amount is only tied up for a month so I lose interest equal to about 1/6% of the full amount of my onboard account but gain 1% cashback - net gain 0.83%.  I know of no fee-free credit card that pays more than this and has fee-free foreign transactions.  I think it's worth the small amount of hassle involved, but others may not.

[buchanan101]

On 11/4/2022 at 5:07 PM, Teddy123 said:

If it isn't clear from my other posts, what I have to complain about is that a) most hotels, etc DON'T block off the whole billing amount in stages and then take the full amount as well - which is what Cunard do; b) most hotels, etc remove any block quite quickly but Cunard do NOTHING to remove the block even when the full amount is taken. Instead, it erroneously claims it can't do it, then claims the customer can do it himself (wrong again).  However, if this hasn't been understood by now, I'm not inclined to repeat it again after this.

No hotel I’ve ever been in does (a). Cunard ships are hotels. No reason at all to do what they do, especially as customers with issues with payment can’t really do a runner. I’m surprised that some people here can’t understand the difference between Cunard and standard hotel practice. As for (b) my hotel in New York returned the balance in 2 days. I still have the double (individual day) charges on my account after 2 weeks. This quite frankly stinks. 

[buchanan101]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:27 PM, Host Hattie said:

But the OP is insisting that these are not holds !

They are double charges. I’d have to pay double if credit card needed paying today. 

[buchanan101]

11 hours ago, Teddy123 said:

This isn't really on topic for the thread, but for those interested in why I use a debit card: no foreign transaction fee, Mastercard rates and 1% cashback.  It's true I need to keep more cash in the current account, but the bank has a savings account paying 2.1% (not quite the best available).  The banking app lets me transfer between savings and current accounts in a few seconds, so I don't need to keep a huge buffer in the current account.  Even with what I consider Cunard's unreasonable methods, the pending amount is only tied up for a month so I lose interest equal to about 1/6% of the full amount of my onboard account but gain 1% cashback - net gain 0.83%.  I know of no fee-free credit card that pays more than this and has fee-free foreign transactions.  I think it's worth the small amount of hassle involved, but others may not.

I recommend Curve. It’s a debit card with 0% currency transaction fees (0.5% at weekends). But it fronts credit cards - but not Amex. So I get 0% conversion charge on a good exchange rate, plus, 1.5 Avios /£1 using my Barclaycard (which has also just given me 25,000 Avios sign up bonus with 100,000 more to follow in 3 months - though this means I have monthly fee bank account and credit card with them - yes it’s worth it if you do the maths…) 

[buchanan101]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:53 PM, ExArkie said:

My perspective, based on my experience with US credit cards: Cunard appears to be processing the debit card in the same way that they do credit cards, which is probably an error, but certainly not correct. 

For a credit card, the hold is placed by the merchant on the front end and remains a “pending” charge until the merchant makes it an official charge. Doing nothing to a pending charge means that it eventually goes away without being due for payment, but it does reduce one’s credit limit while pending. The merchant may ignore the holds, allowing them to expire, and issue a separate charge to the card for the amount. They may also inform the card issuer that the holds can be removed.  
 

The difference with a debit card is that a hold issued by the merchant goes against the bank balance, not against a credit limit, unless it is handled differently in placing the hold. In this instance, it appears that Cunard did not know this was a debit card and handled the hold as they would a credit card. Hence, the “hold” charge is no longer a hold in the same context as for a credit card. It is quite possible that the double charge was because Cunard assumed the initial holds would be uncharged if they were just allowed to expire. Perhaps they even told the card issuer to remove the holds, which did not happen because, between the two systems, they failed to find any holds.
 

To me, it sounds as though Cunard’s system did not recognize this as a debit card and screwed up the processing. 
 

This is consistent with the explanation quoted above from Cunard. I missed any follow up as to their response when the screen shots were provided as they suggested. Was that posted? (Just kind of read through this quickly.)

 

I haven’t yet provided screen shots. I will be on Monday as that is 10 working days. 

[Solent Richard]

On 11/5/2022 at 9:39 PM, buchanan101 said:

I recommend Curve. It’s a debit card with 0% currency transaction fees (0.5% at weekends). But it fronts credit cards - but not Amex. So I get 0% conversion charge on a good exchange rate, plus, 1.5 Avios /£1 using my Barclaycard (which has also just given me 25,000 Avios sign up bonus with 100,000 more to follow in 3 months - though this means I have monthly fee bank account and credit card with them - yes it’s worth it if you do the maths…) 

 

Thank you for your recommendation.

 

It certainly appeared that you have the best of all worlds until I took a look at what was available. Firstly you don't say what level of Curve card you have. There appear to be four levels available (Curve, Curve X, Curve Blanc and Curve Metal). Three of them carry a monthly fee, ranging between £4.99 and £14.99)

 

I then took a look at the Barclaycard Avios. Correct me if I'm wrong but to achieve the headline Avios points you say you have been awarded/promised, that particular level of card attracts a monthly fee of £20.00.

 

Having done the maths I think I will stick with my Martin Lewis recommended Halifax Clarity, Barclaycard Cashback (0.5% on all spending) and Applepay  for convenience/ emergencies. 

 

In the meantime I look forward to hearing your dispute with Cunard has been resolved satisfactorily.

 

 

 

 

[buchanan101]

32 minutes ago, Solent Richard said:

 

Thank you for your recommendation.

 

It certainly appeared that you have the best of all worlds until I took a look at what was available. Firstly you don't say what level of Curve card you have. There appear to be four levels available (Curve, Curve X, Curve Blanc and Curve Metal). Three of them carry a monthly fee, ranging between £4.99 and £14.99)

 

I then took a look at the Barclaycard Avios. Correct me if I'm wrong but to achieve the headline Avios points you say you have been awarded/promised, that particular level of card attracts a monthly fee of £20.00.

 

Having done the maths I think I will stick with my Martin Lewis recommended Halifax Clarity, Barclaycard Cashback (0.5% on all spending) and Applepay  for convenience/ emergencies. 

 

In the meantime I look forward to hearing your dispute with Cunard has been resolved satisfactorily.

 

 

 

 

Hi Richard

 

I do have metal level because I (possibly unwisely) invested in them - but that card has been "free" to me for a couple of years. However the 0% foreign currency charge applies to all levels  (0.5% at weekends) - so including the free card, and you could front *your* Barclaycard with Curve to get an overall better exchange rate (i.e. 0% to 0.5% fees, not 2.99%) plus your cashback

 

Yes, my Barclaycard is £20 a month (reduced to £15 as I have a premier account, which in turn costs £12 but gets 1500 Avios a month for that plus an annual cabin upgrade voucher). The BC gives the same rate as Amex BA Premium card (also with an annual voucher), for about the same cost, but is a bit more widely accepted (and Curve doesn't front Amex). Plus I just got 25,000 Avios sign up bonus and will get 100,000 Avios soon for holding both products... You can pay tax bills with Curve and get Avios....or cashback on the underlying card

 

A bit of a game I know! But valuing Avios at 0.8p each or so I still come out on top - certainly for the first ~6 months with the card anyway! (£1000 "worth" of Avios for about £150 cost...)

 

**Important to note that Curve is a debit card**, so you can get your credit card rewards where credit cards are not accepted by using Curve fronting your credit card

 

But as I said, you would gain (at zero cost) getting a free Curve and using your Barclaycard through that

 

As for dispute, a couple of the charges have been refunded. It's taken two weeks. It still leaves a bad taste that they are worse than any hotel!
 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by buchanan101