Gratuities, does the employees actually get them?

[RocketMan275]

Just now, DaCruiseBug said:

 

It's rather simple. If they can use the DSC to pay for the salaries of the crew onboard then they can also use them to pay for the salaries of their ground personnel. Doesn't have to be "general revenue" if it accomplishes the same thing. You honestly didn't think that a multi-billion dollar corporation that skirts paying many US taxes by registering ships in other countries could find a way to figure this out?

Do you have any proof that the DSC is used to pay for land-based personnel or is that just more of your antipathy for DSC?

You've alleged that NCL uses DSC to pay for things that aren't legally allowed without proof.

One way for you to prove these allegations would be to examine SEC filings.  If the amount of DSC collected exceeds the amount of crew salaries, then you might have a case.  Until then it is just baseless allegtions on your part.

[DaCruiseBug]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Do you have any proof that the DSC is used to pay for land-based personnel or is that just more of your antipathy for DSC?

You've alleged that NCL uses DSC to pay for things that aren't legally allowed without proof.

One way for you to prove these allegations would be to examine SEC filings.  If the amount of DSC collected exceeds the amount of crew salaries, then you might have a case.  Until then it is just baseless allegtions on your part.

 

That's a rather simplistic approach don't you think. Do the DSC go to pay the Captains salary? Chief Engineer? Is that what you're saying?

 

You asked me how NCL could possibly pocket the DSC if they can't claim it as "general revenue" and I gave you a perfect example of how they can do it. The DSC is basically a slush fund used to pay for whatever expense NCL wants to use it for. They're anything but "crew tips".

[RocketMan275]

49 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

That's a rather simplistic approach don't you think. Do the DSC go to pay the Captains salary? Chief Engineer? Is that what you're saying?

 

You asked me how NCL could possibly pocket the DSC if they can't claim it as "general revenue" and I gave you a perfect example of how they can do it. The DSC is basically a slush fund used to pay for whatever expense NCL wants to use it for. They're anything but "crew tips".

You have no evidence to substantiate those claims.  NCL has stated what the DSC can be used to pay for.  It does not include ship's officers salaries.  Quite frankly, you're just making things up. 

 

Essentially, what you're claiming that you know ways to subvert the prohibitions on mingling DSC with other revenues, ways that have escaped the scrutiny of SEC auditors.  

 

If you're so convinced that the cruise lines are doing illegal things, then why not share your expertise with the numerous attorneys who would salivate at the prospect of taking them to court.  Let us know how that turns out.

[New2cruise2022]

12 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You have no evidence to substantiate those claims.  NCL has stated what the DSC can be used to pay for.  It does not include ship's officers salaries.  Quite frankly, you're just making things up. 

 

Essentially, what you're claiming that you know ways to subvert the prohibitions on mingling DSC with other revenues, ways that have escaped the scrutiny of SEC auditors.  

 

If you're so convinced that the cruise lines are doing illegal things, then why not share your expertise with the numerous attorneys who would salivate at the prospect of taking them to court.  Let us know how that turns out.

It is speculation on everyone’s part on this board. Even if you were the head of the SEC or ranked as the foremost tax attorney in the country, no one has the information needed to substantiate a single claim on this board. The comments and opinions on this board are a firing squad in the round. Dangerous at best. 

[Barb Nahoumi]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:37 PM, RocketMan275 said:

First of all, this is a waiter.  Waiters do not have assigned guests, therefore there is no way for he cruise line to track how many guests this person serves and allocate the gratuities accordingly.

 

Some of the other crew such as stewards do have assigned guests.  However, in this case,   if you remove all/part of the gratuities and directly give cash, the employee is required to turn the cash into the cruise line?

When you enter the MDR or any other restaurant, they ask for your cabin number and enter it in a computer.  So they do have a tally of how many people are in that restaurant along with table numbers.  NCL probably has an idea of how many people the waiter served.

[DaCruiseBug]

41 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

You have no evidence to substantiate those claims.  NCL has stated what the DSC can be used to pay for.  It does not include ship's officers salaries.  Quite frankly, you're just making things up. 

 

Essentially, what you're claiming that you know ways to subvert the prohibitions on mingling DSC with other revenues, ways that have escaped the scrutiny of SEC auditors.  

 

If you're so convinced that the cruise lines are doing illegal things, then why not share your expertise with the numerous attorneys who would salivate at the prospect of taking them to court.  Let us know how that turns out.

 

1. NCL doesn't state ANYWHERE that the DSC are all going to a specific program. A very VAGUE statement about what they "support" means absolutely nothing.

 

2. Why would it be illegal for NCL to use the DSC to pay for other crew expenses such as pensions? Where does it say that it's illegal for NCL to do that? There's a difference between legal/illegal and ethical/unethical.

[DaCruiseBug]

32 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

It is speculation on everyone’s part on this board. Even if you were the head of the SEC or ranked as the foremost tax attorney in the country, no one has the information needed to substantiate a single claim on this board. The comments and opinions on this board are a firing squad in the round. Dangerous at best. 

 

NCL could be transparent and tell customers exactly how the DSC are spent. Instead they choose to hide behind a cloak of secrecy.

 

Sometimes what you don't say is louder than what you do say.

[New2cruise2022]

2 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

NCL could be transparent and tell customers exactly how the DSC are spent. Instead they choose to hide behind a cloak of secrecy.

 

Sometimes what you don't say is louder than what you do say.

There must be some tax advantage to leaving the DSC in place. This is part of what ISN’T being said.  Package better and message better. Because of the ambiguity, the continuing debate here is valid. 

[RocketMan275]

29 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

1. NCL doesn't state ANYWHERE that the DSC are all going to a specific program. A very VAGUE statement about what they "support" means absolutely nothing.

2. Why would it be illegal for NCL to use the DSC to pay for other crew expenses such as pensions? Where does it say that it's illegal for NCL to do that? There's a difference between legal/illegal and ethical/unethical.

Even if NCL provided such a statement, I doubt it would be acceptable to you.

You've been provided that information that co-mingling DSC is illegal.  You choose to ignore it.

[DaCruiseBug]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Even if NCL provided such a statement, I doubt it would be acceptable to you.

You've been provided that information that co-mingling DSC is illegal.  You choose to ignore it.

 

Where has that information been provided? Let's see it...

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

Where has that information been provided? Let's see it...

Go back through the history of people responding to you, you'll find it.

[MoCruiseFan]

I have gone through 3 bags of popcorn already reading this thread all over a silly $20 (more or less) a day that people are all bent out shape over.  I am surprised that  someone has not posted "demanding" that NCL be more "transparent" in disclosing where the cruise fare goes!  If anyone is really all bent out of shape, go grab a set of NCL's financials and read them.  If you need help reading them,  based on the posts in this thread, it appears that I am not the only CPA here, so just ask.

 

[IronRobi]

12 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

You've alleged that NCL uses DSC to pay for things that aren't legally allowed without proof.

Section 3(C) starting at the bottom of page 1.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Guests are advised to carefully read the terms and conditions of the Guest Ticket Contract set forth below which affect your legal rights and are binding (ncl.com)

 

NCL does state in your cruise contract that the DSC is used to support salaries, incentive programs and a fleet-wide wellness program. 

 

So while it may not be legal to include it in general revenues, if it does indeed fund the crew's salaries as they state it does in the contract, then you no longer have the salaries going against the bottom line and it achieves the same effect.

 

Think this through....

You have 100k in revenue. 30k for salaries, you are left with 70k. Now you collect 30k in DSC that can't be added to general revenues, so that number still sits at 70k instead of going back to 100k.

 

Now you have 100k in revenue. 30k for salaries but these salaries are paid from another fund (DSC). So you are left with 100k. It didn't get added to your general revenues but you still get the same final number as if you had. It's really pretty simple.

[New2cruise2022]

5 minutes ago, IronRobi said:

Section 3(C) starting at the bottom of page 1.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Guests are advised to carefully read the terms and conditions of the Guest Ticket Contract set forth below which affect your legal rights and are binding (ncl.com)

 

NCL does state in your cruise contract that the DSC is used to support salaries, incentive programs and a fleet-wide wellness program. 

 

So while it may not be legal to include it in general revenues, if it does indeed fund the crew's salaries as they state it does in the contract, then you no longer have the salaries going against the bottom line and it achieves the same effect.

 

Think this through....

You have 100k in revenue. 30k for salaries, you are left with 70k. Now you collect 30k in DSC that can't be added to general revenues, so that number still sits at 70k instead of going back to 100k.

 

Now you have 100k in revenue. 30k for salaries but these salaries are paid from another fund (DSC). So you are left with 100k. It didn't get added to your general revenues but you still get the same final number as if you had. It's really pretty simple.

Fungible. 

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, IronRobi said:

So while it may not be legal to include it in general revenues, if it does indeed fund the crew's salaries as they state it does in the contract, then you no longer have the salaries going against the bottom line and it achieves the same effect.

What's the point of reducing/eliminating the DSC when it would result in a corresonding increase in cruise fare.