Food: Current vs pre-covid

[KroozNut]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

You raise an excellent issue that I think applies to many cruise lines.  It is about the overall value of a large suite.  On HAL you certainly get the extra space and usually a very nice cabin.  On some ships you will even get a dedicated dining venue (along with Club Orange) and also get access to a lounge.  On some other lines (such as Celebrity) you would get a lot more amenities included a dedicated outdoor pool area and adult beverages in a private lounge.  On other lines you also get superior cuisine (unlike HAL which is essentially a slightly modified MDR menu).

 

But consider that for about the same (or even less) price you could cruise on a luxury line (such as Seabourn).  While a regular suite would be smaller than a Neptune, it is quite nice.   But you also get the huge advantage of a small ship luxury ship with all the amenities including top shelf booze, pretty good wine on demand, French Champagne, caviar, no crowds, and pretty decent entertainment.  Having been on many cruises with HAL (and other mass market lines) and also some luxury lines, it is not even close in terms of service, cuisine, atmosphere, etc.  On Seabourn (for example) the crew does not seem to have the word "no" in their vocabulary.  You want something?  They will generally make it happen and there will be no add-on cost.  Want special services in a port and the Guest Relations staff will arrange it (while you are sitting at a comfy desk, not standing at a crowded counter.  When we asked Seabourn to arrange for a private car/driver to take us (at debarkation) from Monte Carlo to our Nice hotel, that car/driver was waiting right next to the gangplank (no lines).  If I want champagne and caviar at a bar, the platter of caviar (and fixens) will soon arrive along with the champagne (no charge).  When I dine in the Thomas Keller Grill (their upscale alternative restaurant) there is no extra charge if I want an extra course, salad, etc!  They would not even know how to process an add-on charge!  But many HAL cruisers would not be able to handle Seabourn because the MDR does not even open until 7pm for dinner :).   5pm would be considered tea time.   And, if you happen to cruise Seabourn in the Caribbean or Greek Islands they will normally lease a private beach facility and have a beach BBQ with steak, lobster, and "caviar in the surf."  

 

One could also consider a ship within a ship.  A small suite (over 300 sq feet) in MSC's Yacht Club will cost less than $500 per person/day.  That will get you the suite, the mini bar (restocked daily), a couple of bottles of liquor (your choice), a dedicated section of the ship (including large lounge with entertainment and a constant snack buffet, a private pool deck with comfy loungers, a lido buffet on that same pool deck, 24 hour concierge, unlimited top shelf drinks, unlimited Internet, terrific butlers that will escort you on and off the ship (by passing the masses), reserved seating for the daily production shows, etc.  On MSC's private Caribbean Island, they have a private beach and restaurant for the Yacht Club folks with the usual unlimited drinks and terrific chair-side service.

 

I mention this primarily for those folks who are "loyal to HAL" and seldom to never try other lines.  To say that you do not know what you are missing is an understatement.

 

Maybe a condensed 'Reader's Digest' version of this is on order? Personally, I lost you after the first paragraph.

Forgive me, I went to public school, and my my comprehension skills are therefore limited. 😏

[jimbob22]

Just now, KroozNut said:

 

You kinda keep referring to Carnival as a comparison to HAL experiences... most recently here, regarding pizza quality. Are you a closet Carnival fan?

If so, then you're on the wrong board.. Lol 😄

Hal is a Carnival brand; only logical to think that pizza would be really similar (or better on Hal).  I go on Carnival board too. We did MG over thanksgiving, rotterdam over Christmas.  Overall preference for Hal, even though blue Iguana, big chicken, street eats are really good...

[KroozNut]

1 minute ago, jimbob22 said:

Hal is a Carnival brand; only logical to think that pizza would be really similar

 

Your first mistake is your logic in thinking the brands would be similar in any regard, much less their pizza offerings.

[KroozNut]

11 hours ago, bdd123 said:

The fries look pretty horrific, if that's what they are.

Which fries... Dive In?

[jimbob22]

11 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

Your first mistake is your logic in thinking the brands would be similar in any regard, much less their pizza offerings.

glad you could enlighten me, braintrust!

[Stateroom_Sailor]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I am  not following your math.  A $700 room is $1400 double. The other cost in your math I suspect are taxes and port fees. A $700 room on land will have anywhere from a 12 to 25% tax, yes hotel taxes are a politicians best friend and are very high. If it is double occupancy it may also be at a higher rate than the base $700.

 

The math came from a mock booking.  I'll attach a screenshot of the cheapest cabin w/o Have It All.  I completely disagree that a "roadside motel" costs more than $100 per night.  Same dates as the cruise, entry level hotels (rated 3.5/5), in the cities of San Antonio, San Diego, and Orlando.

 

 

 

 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I don’t consider HAL a luxury brand.  I consider it a mass market brand.  It only becomes premium when you sail one of their grand voyages or GV segments.  And then it is not a luxury sailing merely a bit more entertaining.  My point is not comparison of two vacation types, my point is people who want to sail for $100 a day and expecting fine cuisine and high quality entertainment need to adjust down their expectations.  
 

I like HAL’s specialized itineraries and their peace and quiet so I am not trying to deride them but my expectations are realistic.  They most closely fit my desires for cruising.  

 

HAL wasn't a luxury brand in 2019 either, but the comparison is between now and then.  If HAL loses it's edge over the other mass market lines as far as the food and service,  it make sense to move towards competing on longer and more unusual itineraries.  Some old faces may move along, some new faces may come, and some of us will dabble accordingly.

[mrspeck]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:09 PM, mamapirk said:

I just returned from a 4-day cruise with Royal Caribbean. Previously, I've only ever sailed with Seabourn, Regent and Holland American. The food on the just completed Royal Caribbean cruise was shockingly bad. Having not sailed with Royal Caribbean before, I'm wondering if they are trying to make up lost expenses or would I have been just as unsatisfied pre-covid. This question is especially for current HAL World Cruisers, do you find the food quality the same as what you experienced in 2020? Granted, I did not expect Royal to live up to the same standards I've experienced on other lines but I honestly did not expect it to be as bad as I encountered. I accompanied a friend on this cruise on a lark, but it got me thinking about what I should be expecting from my favorite lines. Thanks for any input!

We have done three HAL cruises and our first ever RCI cruise within the last 12 months.  While change happens everywhere, I don’t think using RCI as your guide will do.  We too were extremely disappointed with RCI’s food, but have been very happy (still) with HAL’s.  The only exception was the captain’s table dinner on RCI…it was outstanding!

[shack]

6 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

You kinda keep referring to Carnival as a comparison to HAL experiences... most recently here, regarding pizza quality. Are you a closet Carnival fan?

If so, then you're on the wrong board.. Lol 😄

Sorry, but I wouldn't order pizza on any cruise line unless it was to keep kids quiet.  Too many other great options and OBTW I owned a classic pizzeria though I'm not a snob about it.  I enjoy my delivery (from one spot) during the ball game.

[shack]

3 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

HAL wasn't a luxury brand in 2019 either, but the comparison is between now and then.  If HAL loses it's edge over the other mass market lines as far as the food and service,  it make sense to move towards competing on longer and more unusual itineraries.  Some old faces may move along, some new faces may come, and some of us will dabble accordingly.

 

You need to get over yourselves. 

 

We REALLY enjoyed our last HAL Alaska cruise pre-COVID and could find little fault with anything.  But HAL is really Celebrity+ with more blue-hairs.  You can't reasonably compare HAL with Seabourn, Silversea, Seadream Yacht Club, and even Radisson or Crystal.  Sailed them all and each product and their offerings are different.  And actually, depending on the itinerary and what you want included, the price points for quality cabins, amazing inclusive food and beverage, and service aren't as far apart as you would think.

 

That said, we're super-excited for Zaandam Boston-Montreal this summer.  With new TVs to boot!

[shack]

3 minutes ago, shack said:

 

You need to get over yourselves. 

 

We REALLY enjoyed our last HAL Alaska cruise pre-COVID and could find little fault with anything.  But HAL is really Celebrity+ with more blue-hairs.  You can't reasonably compare HAL with Seabourn, Silversea, Seadream Yacht Club, and even Radisson or Crystal.  Sailed them all and each product and their offerings are different.  And actually, depending on the itinerary and what you want included, the price points for quality cabins, amazing inclusive food and beverage, and service aren't as far apart as you would think.

 

That said, we're super-excited for Zaandam Boston-Montreal this summer.  With new TVs to boot!

 

Oh, and our 45 days on Viking Ocean pretty much smoked them all top to bottom.

[shack]

4 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

The math came from a mock booking.  I'll attach a screenshot of the cheapest cabin w/o Have It All.  I completely disagree that a "roadside motel" costs more than $100 per night.  Same dates as the cruise, entry level hotels (rated 3.5/5), in the cities of San Antonio, San Diego, and Orlando.

 

 

 

 

 

Motel 6 is holding on line 2 --  here you come...

[Mary229]

9 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

HAL wasn't a luxury brand in 2019 either, but the comparison is between now and then.  If HAL loses it's edge over the other mass market lines as far as the food and service,  it make sense to move towards competing on longer and more unusual itineraries.  Some old faces may move along, some new faces may come, and some of us will dabble accordingly.

I read these boards, it is keeping up with its competition, problem is at this level they are all having food issues.  
 

As I mentioned your math includes fees and taxes - the cruise line doesn’t get to keep that money.
 

As to the hotels until I retired last month I traveled for business monthly and often many times a month.  $100 is the norm, one can always find a bargain on a given date and without regard to review or location.   I also know the cost of eating out has exceeded the cost of inflation. The point continues to be if one thinks they can pay $100 a night for the cruise and get comfortable lodging with attentive maid service, 3 full meals a day of fine dining and superior entertainment they need to readjust their expectations.   It simply is not a profitable model.  Either prices will need to go up or the product has to be downgraded.  You can’t spend 2023 dollars and get 2019 products.  ( I save screenshots of prior years sailings and I keep prior years final invoices, I know prices have not increased for the majority of sailings)

Edited January 17, 2023 by Mary229

[SW289]

On 1/11/2023 at 11:51 AM, ottahand7 said:

We are currently on the Volendam Grand South America 74 days with about 66 left. Our food and service is at pre pandemic quality. Each ship is different but our MDR, Lido, Pinnacle and Canaletto have been terrific. The breads and pastries are abundant and excellent. Food is hot when it arrives other than breakfast coffee in the MDR so we just get breakfast in the Lido.  A lot of our staff are new but they work so hard to get our meals to us hot and plated beautifully.  I can say the same for the Nieuw Statendam from last February.  Sorry for an opportunity to drop some food porn.  First two MDR last 4 Canaletto. 

Looks terrible!

[KroozNut]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

For you we will make it short.  HAL is not a very competitve  line when compared to much of their competition.  Clear enough?

 

Thanks.. I think I get your point now. 👍

[HALcruiser2001]

17 hours ago, Hlitner said:

You raise an excellent issue that I think applies to many cruise lines.  It is about the overall value of a large suite.  On HAL you certainly get the extra space and usually a very nice cabin.  On some ships you will even get a dedicated dining venue (along with Club Orange) and also get access to a lounge.  On some other lines (such as Celebrity) you would get a lot more amenities included a dedicated outdoor pool area and adult beverages in a private lounge.  On other lines you also get superior cuisine (unlike HAL which is essentially a slightly modified MDR menu).

 

But consider that for about the same (or even less) price you could cruise on a luxury line (such as Seabourn).  While a regular suite would be smaller than a Neptune, it is quite nice.   But you also get the huge advantage of a small ship luxury ship with all the amenities including top shelf booze, pretty good wine on demand, French Champagne, caviar, no crowds, and pretty decent entertainment.  Having been on many cruises with HAL (and other mass market lines) and also some luxury lines, it is not even close in terms of service, cuisine, atmosphere, etc.  On Seabourn (for example) the crew does not seem to have the word "no" in their vocabulary.  You want something?  They will generally make it happen and there will be no add-on cost.  Want special services in a port and the Guest Relations staff will arrange it (while you are sitting at a comfy desk, not standing at a crowded counter.  When we asked Seabourn to arrange for a private car/driver to take us (at debarkation) from Monte Carlo to our Nice hotel, that car/driver was waiting right next to the gangplank (no lines).  If I want champagne and caviar at a bar, the platter of caviar (and fixens) will soon arrive along with the champagne (no charge).  When I dine in the Thomas Keller Grill (their upscale alternative restaurant) there is no extra charge if I want an extra course, salad, etc!  They would not even know how to process an add-on charge!  But many HAL cruisers would not be able to handle Seabourn because the MDR does not even open until 7pm for dinner :).   5pm would be considered tea time.   And, if you happen to cruise Seabourn in the Caribbean or Greek Islands they will normally lease a private beach facility and have a beach BBQ with steak, lobster, and "caviar in the surf."  

 

One could also consider a ship within a ship.  A small suite (over 300 sq feet) in MSC's Yacht Club will cost less than $500 per person/day.  That will get you the suite, the mini bar (restocked daily), a couple of bottles of liquor (your choice), a dedicated section of the ship (including large lounge with entertainment and a constant snack buffet, a private pool deck with comfy loungers, a lido buffet on that same pool deck, 24 hour concierge, unlimited top shelf drinks, unlimited Internet, terrific butlers that will escort you on and off the ship (by passing the masses), reserved seating for the daily production shows, etc.  On MSC's private Caribbean Island, they have a private beach and restaurant for the Yacht Club folks with the usual unlimited drinks and terrific chair-side service.

 

I mention this primarily for those folks who are "loyal to HAL" and seldom to never try other lines.  To say that you do not know what you are missing is an understatement.

I really wish I would have read this BEFORE I booked HAL in Nov 2022, for Feb 2023. 

I will do some more research after my HAL cruise and decide if my wife and I also celebrate my 60th on a ship.  Now it is likely to be Celebrity or Seabourn.

[Colorado Klutch]

The prices I've seen for Seabourn and Viking were much higher than HAL. Maybe I wasn't pricing things correctly?

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Klutch said:

The prices I've seen for Seabourn and Viking were much higher than HAL. Maybe I wasn't pricing things correctly?

You have to factor in everything - food, beverages, amenities, quality of entertainment, quality of dining and of included dining, shore excursions and so on.   If you are like me you may not see much value in some of those upgraded features.  I have sailed two luxury lines both which left me with the “is that really it?” feeling.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

 

 These cruises are being offered for $100 a day and that is what a roadside motel costs these days.  

 

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

As I mentioned your math includes fees and taxes - the cruise line doesn’t get to keep that money.

 

As to the hotels until I retired last month I traveled for business monthly and often many times a month.  $100 is the norm, one can always find a bargain on a given date and without regard to review or location. 

 

Hotels don't get to keep the taxes either.

 

You claimed that HAL was the same price as roadside motels, and I still disagree.   I upped the ante by using "fair" rated hotels, in cities with interesting things to do.  If we shift to compare nice hotels in desirable areas of town, absolutely they'll match.

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Stateroom_Sailor]

8 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I also know the cost of eating out has exceeded the cost of inflation. The point continues to be if one thinks they can pay $100 a night for the cruise and get comfortable lodging with attentive maid service, 3 full meals a day of fine dining and superior entertainment they need to readjust their expectations.   It simply is not a profitable model.  Either prices will need to go up or the product has to be downgraded.  You can’t spend 2023 dollars and get 2019 products.  ( I save screenshots of prior years sailings and I keep prior years final invoices, I know prices have not increased for the majority of sailings)

 

I don't disagree with any of this, other than this is something we should embrace.  There's no option to pay in 2019 dollars + inflation for 2019 quality.  For people who are here for atmosphere and itinerary only, these changes might be a win-win.  Some of us have come to HAL due to downgrades from other lines, and will keep moving along.

[lavictoria]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:27 PM, Seacruise said:

I am able to shed some light on how ships are stocked.
What we are seeing I think is the cruise lines trying to do what they need to do so they have enough food onboard and designing menus around what they can get.
Just think how much we pay as consumers for food now compared to a year or two ago.

Just some things to think about why cruise lines change things we are not happy about.

Thank you very much for taking the time to let us in behind the scenes!

I was on the verge of posting a rant along the lines of "don't you people listen to the news about avian flu, labour shortages, fulfillment issues in general" but I don't have your inside knowledge about how crew ships are stocked.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of folks out there from the farmers to the distributors and chefs who are having night terrors over losing their livelihood while people are whinging about "it's not like it used to be".

[Colorado Klutch]

Pardon me for using a Navy reference again, but when I was stationed aboard an aircraft carrier, I used to see the Logistics Requests. Whenever the ship pulled into a port, we would purchase supplies from the local economy. (One of the reasons foreign countries were willing to put up with thousands of sailors invading was the huge sums of money the Navy brought in with them.) One number that stood out was "11,000 Dozen Eggs". I expect cruise ships order similar numbers. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Colorado Klutch

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I don't disagree with any of this, other than this is something we should embrace.  There's no option to pay in 2019 dollars + inflation for 2019 quality.  For people who are here for atmosphere and itinerary only, these changes might be a win-win.  Some of us have come to HAL due to downgrades from other lines, and will keep moving along.

Good luck. I think you will have to reach beyond the big three CCL, RCCL AND NCL as they have all announced cutbacks.  BTW, I take one or two driving vacations per year and I assure you that you can’t go anywhere or do anything of any consequence for a week at $1900.  It just isn’t going to happen unless you cut corners and stay with relatives and pack a lunch😉

As we speak i am pricing out two such journeys both in the off season neither of which have any any fine dining nor theatre style entertainment.  The one exception may be Las Vegas.

[BetsyS.]

Mary229 - Congratulations on your retirement! 🥂😊

           Thank you for posting that Dollar Tree sells first aid kits. I stocked 

up on some and put them in my luggage. I had in the past packed OTC meds and 

bandaids, but first aid kits are a good thing to have. I'm not traveling anytime soon, 

but it will be one less thing to worry about when it's time to pack for my next cruise.

 

[cruisemom42]

23 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

HAL wasn't a luxury brand in 2019 either, but the comparison is between now and then.  If HAL loses it's edge over the other mass market lines as far as the food and service,  it make sense to move towards competing on longer and more unusual itineraries.  Some old faces may move along, some new faces may come, and some of us will dabble accordingly.

 

19 hours ago, shack said:

 

You need to get over yourselves. 

 

We REALLY enjoyed our last HAL Alaska cruise pre-COVID and could find little fault with anything.  But HAL is really Celebrity+ with more blue-hairs.  You can't reasonably compare HAL with Seabourn, Silversea, Seadream Yacht Club, and even Radisson or Crystal.  Sailed them all and each product and their offerings are different.  And actually, depending on the itinerary and what you want included, the price points for quality cabins, amazing inclusive food and beverage, and service aren't as far apart as you would think.

 

That said, we're super-excited for Zaandam Boston-Montreal this summer.  With new TVs to boot!

 

???? 

 

You seem to be completely misreading the previous post by Stateroom_Sailor. S/he isn't claiming HAL is a luxury line at all. In fact, says the opposite.

 

And it makes perfect sense to suggest that if HAL can't maintain an edge over other mass-market lines (NOT luxury lines) with regard to food or entertainment, then focusing on their strength in longer voyages and interesting itineraries makes good sense.