Carnival 'Special touches' gone?

[hard_eight]

2 minutes ago, Roscoe13 said:

"You never close your eyes when I cruise your ships anymore..."

[Drew B 58]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:18 PM, mz-s said:

 

The entire purpose of this thread in particular is to discuss things that are gone from the experience, anyone is welcome to make a thread about things that Carnival has added over the years and I'd be glad to add my own things to that thread as well.

True.  But when you say “…used to include so much more than you get today…”, you expand the topic to the VALUE of what you receive today in comparison to in years past.  One can just as easily conclude that we receive more value than less.  As I said, subjective…

[Viajera7]

23 hours ago, DaveRRT said:

I love being on a ship. I have been on great cruises and some that were just ok, never a bad one. I grew up reading Hornblower books so the ports are more interesting and if if its rough out I sleep better Never been on a ship that sunk. .Going on the Celebration April 2 and will give my thoughts on a big ship verses the first cruise on the Tropical that was great and cost 3 times more. Love resorts but just not the same. 

My first cruise was the Tropicale too. I also do land vacations but cruises are more convenient many times because you can see several places per trip without unpacking and packing. Plus you have entertainment too.

[blue hen]

I miss the hang tags to order coffee and danish the night before

 

 

 

[Joebucks]

3 hours ago, Drew B 58 said:

True.  But when you say “…used to include so much more than you get today…”, you expand the topic to the VALUE of what you receive today in comparison to in years past.  One can just as easily conclude that we receive more value than less.  As I said, subjective…

 

Imagine the amount of cruisers has more than doubled over the past 20 years while they all have "received less value." Maybe internet complainers don't speak for everyone. The average cruises included far more "special touches" back then. Somehow, the industry continues to grow. 

[icft]

3 hours ago, Drew B 58 said:

True.  But when you say “…used to include so much more than you get today…”, you expand the topic to the VALUE of what you receive today in comparison to in years past.  One can just as easily conclude that we receive more value than less.  As I said, subjective…

 

23 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

Imagine the amount of cruisers has more than doubled over the past 20 years while they all have "received less value." Maybe internet complainers don't speak for everyone. The average cruises included far more "special touches" back then. Somehow, the industry continues to grow. 

 

The cruise lines are not the first to make the transition the cruise lines are now making.

 

Until the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 airlines were heavily regulated. Among other things the government set the ticket prices. The prices were set quite high as the airlines were regulated in the first place in in the 1930s to protect and make strong the new industry. One of the goals of regulation was a financially strong industry. The result was that airlines could only compete against each other by providing better service. Being old enough to have flown in those days I can tell you flying was a true pleasure. You were given personal attention and great service. The smallest seat would now be called first class. Not that many flew so airports were not zoos. There was no overbooking. If your flight was delayed or cancelled there was no question the airline would take care of you.

 

Then, in 1978, (I had been in college studying regulatory economics until shortly before so I followed it closely - the first industry in the U.S. to ever be deregulated) the game changed and the airlines began competing on price. It was about the only thing they could compete on. While the industry was deregulated as much as it could be there are still effective restrictions. Airports have only so many gates and there is a process for getting those that puts all airlines mostly on level footing. There has always only been so many aircraft manufacturers making only so many designs. Now a lot more folks can afford to fly, but flying is a bad experience.

 

Competing on price ONLY always and everywhere results in a diminished product. Cruise lines have a bit more they can compete on though. Ship designs, service, entertainment, ports of call etc. are all areas where competition can exist.

 

Unfortunately service and food quality are areas all cruise lines have picked as cost savings areas while rock climbing walls, surfing rides, roller coaster rides and premium dining are areas they have picked for competition all while pushing larger ships that are cheaper to operate.

 

Carnival in particular has chosen to compete mostly on price and seems to be more closely following the experience of the airlines - a lot more can cruise, but at some point they run the risk the service will be so bad nobody wants to.

[Joebucks]

6 hours ago, icft said:

 

 

The cruise lines are not the first to make the transition the cruise lines are now making.

 

Until the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 airlines were heavily regulated. Among other things the government set the ticket prices. The prices were set quite high as the airlines were regulated in the first place in in the 1930s to protect and make strong the new industry. One of the goals of regulation was a financially strong industry. The result was that airlines could only compete against each other by providing better service. Being old enough to have flown in those days I can tell you flying was a true pleasure. You were given personal attention and great service. The smallest seat would now be called first class. Not that many flew so airports were not zoos. There was no overbooking. If your flight was delayed or cancelled there was no question the airline would take care of you.

 

Then, in 1978, (I had been in college studying regulatory economics until shortly before so I followed it closely - the first industry in the U.S. to ever be deregulated) the game changed and the airlines began competing on price. It was about the only thing they could compete on. While the industry was deregulated as much as it could be there are still effective restrictions. Airports have only so many gates and there is a process for getting those that puts all airlines mostly on level footing. There has always only been so many aircraft manufacturers making only so many designs. Now a lot more folks can afford to fly, but flying is a bad experience.

 

Competing on price ONLY always and everywhere results in a diminished product. Cruise lines have a bit more they can compete on though. Ship designs, service, entertainment, ports of call etc. are all areas where competition can exist.

 

Unfortunately service and food quality are areas all cruise lines have picked as cost savings areas while rock climbing walls, surfing rides, roller coaster rides and premium dining are areas they have picked for competition all while pushing larger ships that are cheaper to operate.

 

Carnival in particular has chosen to compete mostly on price and seems to be more closely following the experience of the airlines - a lot more can cruise, but at some point they run the risk the service will be so bad nobody wants to.

 

Which is case in point again. Larger seats, more legroom, and better meals exist. Overwhelmingly, people just don't want to pay for them. Instead, they buy the cheapest ticket, and complain it's not luxury.

[mz-s]

9 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Imagine the amount of cruisers has more than doubled over the past 20 years while they all have "received less value." Maybe internet complainers don't speak for everyone. The average cruises included far more "special touches" back then. Somehow, the industry continues to grow. 

 

"If I had asked people what they wanted, I would have built a faster horse." - Henry Ford

[RCLcruiser2012]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:20 AM, asalligo said:

On the MSC Meraviglia last month. It was a sucky cruise, but they were doing that. 

 

MSC really has some bad reviews.  What really sucked from that cruise or everything??

[RCLcruiser2012]

On 2/18/2023 at 12:17 PM, TomCruise48 said:

On Mardi Gras now at full guest capacity, but crew is 400 below stated number of crew members for this ship.  Not certain if Carnival is doing this to save money or if they are still having staffing issues after Covid. This appears to be a contributing factor to changes in service that we have experienced. There are not enough crew members to provide the same services that we received in the past.  In spite of this, we still enjoy cruising with Carnival. 

My parents went on the Mardi Gras too recently and staff said they can't hire enough staff.  Lack of help. 😞 

[asalligo]

15 hours ago, RCLcruiser2012 said:

MSC really has some bad reviews.  What really sucked from that cruise or everything??

Unfortunately, it really was almost everything and I had such high hopes for MSC. MSC Meraviglia. We had a 10am check in time and we show up at 9:45 to a line stretching out the door and across the parking lot, MSC does not appear to care about check in times, so why provide them. After an hour to get through security and check in we get seated, and boarding does not start until 1:30. Our friends who showed up outside at 1:30 found a line three hours long just to get into the terminal. They entered the line at 1:30 and did not get on the ship until after 5:30. The ship did not sail until after 8pm. Sail away party was such a joke compared to Carnival and I knew at that point that this was probably not going to be a replacement for Carnival. Almost every activity onboard is an upcharge. There is one free stage show, but it lasted under 30 minutes while they plugged the paid show. There was plenty to do. Bowling, racing simulators, a 4d movie, shows, but they all cost extra. 

 

Then the service and food onboard. We had come off the Carnival Pride only two weeks earlier and I was critical of Carnival food post covid, but MSC was so much worse. Everything was just so bad and nothing tasted like you expected it to. I am sure the specialty restaurants would be a step up, but we could not get into any of them, all booked. I had heard service was different, not so much hands on and that would be fine, but it was much worse than that. Thier employees were just plain apathetic, not helpful, and in a few cases just downright rude. Everything on the ship started late, Dinner a 45 minute wait to seat, shows starting 15 minutes late and I thought, ok, they just had a bad embarkation day and maybe they will get their act together tomorrow. That just never happened. This theme continued the entire cruise. Giant uncontrolled lines for everything we did on the ship all the way to debarkation which was another complete mess and our luggage was in a completely different group than our luggage tags. Get to the parking lot and find a three hour wait to exit the parking garage. This one is probably not on MSC, something was wrong with the terminals to pay, but it topped this cruise off nicely. 

 

The ship was beautiful and I cannot fault it there. New and so nice. Their Island Ocean Cay is a true gem and I can find no fault in it. I hope that one day they hire someone to fix everything else and become a nice cruise line. 

[elcuchio24]

Most of whats missing are things that were nostalgic to older generations but fairly pointless. Mints on pillows, chocolate buffets, past guest parties. It's 2023. Print is dead, forget about the menus and printed funtimes. Thrilled they do everything on the app no, so much easier and less wasteful of piles of paper.  Plus I guess you can't eat 7 lobster tails at a time if that was your thing. In general, I feel the product is better than it was 5 years ago as seen by the broader/target audience. But then again you'll have detractors at every angle. 

[mz-s]

17 minutes ago, elcuchio24 said:

Most of whats missing are things that were nostalgic to older generations but fairly pointless. Mints on pillows, chocolate buffets, past guest parties. It's 2023. Print is dead, forget about the menus and printed funtimes. Thrilled they do everything on the app no, so much easier and less wasteful of piles of paper.  Plus I guess you can't eat 7 lobster tails at a time if that was your thing. In general, I feel the product is better than it was 5 years ago as seen by the broader/target audience. But then again you'll have detractors at every angle. 

 

In other words, special touches. How about that!

[elcuchio24]

7 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

In other words, special touches. How about that!

 

I much prefer the NEW special touches that have replaced the old ones.--better entertainment/better alternate dining venues/a slick and easy to use app/ships that ar 3x larger/rollercoasters/etc etc etc

 

Some people only want to be nostalgic around whats gone rather than whats been added. Or, just cruise HAL or another line that better represents your expectation

[ProgRockCruiser]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:08 PM, icft said:

The smallest seat would now be called first class.

Flying Business class, or First Class where it still exists, internationally cannot compare to any coach seat prior to deregulation - those lay flat seats and pod-like environments are apparently really quite nice (my wife has traveled that way, not me yet).  And the price of that Business class ticket is about the price of (or less than) the pre-deregulation coach class:

 

"...in 1970, a return flight between New York and London was retailed for $550. With inflation, that's around $5,350 in today's money." [article is from 2022]

 

https://simpleflying.com/50-years-airfares/

 

I just did a quick mock-booking for a return flight from JFK to LHR in October (random non-peak time), business class.  The cheapest non-stop, on Delta, is about $3200.  First class pumps that to about $4500.

 

Deregulation seems to have allowed more people to travel cheaply by converting that part of the cabin to cattle class, but for those with the funds, the original experience is still available (with potentially better comfort like those layflat seats).

 

If you took the price of a cruise in 1985 (or whenever you want to call the "golden age") and used the equivalent in today's dollars to book something, I'm sure you could find some very nice accommodations aboard some pretty swanky ships.  Just not Carnival.  Maybe we should say Carnival is the Southwest of cruising?

[cruise4hobby]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:08 PM, DarthGrady said:

Up through the early 2010's they still had afternoon tea with pastries and other snacks (I'm sure the British have a lovely term for this), I really enjoyed it. Some of the pricier cruise lines didn't even offer it, definitely a nice touch that has been lost to the ages. 

They still have it.  Was just on the Celebration.  It is the last sea day at 3.  Scroll down on the hub app on the food page and it should be listed there.

[mz-s]

55 minutes ago, elcuchio24 said:

 

I much prefer the NEW special touches that have replaced the old ones.--better entertainment/better alternate dining venues/a slick and easy to use app/ships that ar 3x larger/rollercoasters/etc etc etc

 

Some people only want to be nostalgic around whats gone rather than whats been added. Or, just cruise HAL or another line that better represents your expectation

 

It's telling that a few of the "new special touches" you listed cost extra.

[elcuchio24]

1 minute ago, mz-s said:

 

It's telling that a few of the "new special touches" you listed cost extra.

 

Nothing I mentioned has special charges, at least as of last week on Celebration. Except the the Rollercoaster. 

 

In addition, the base cost for CCL is around the same it was a decade ago. Thinking that the total cost for massively larger ships with much more features and more to do at the same cost as 2010 is nonsensical. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by elcuchio24

[mz-s]

44 minutes ago, elcuchio24 said:

 

Nothing I mentioned has special charges, at least as of last week on Celebration. Except the the Rollercoaster. 

 

In addition, the base cost for CCL is around the same it was a decade ago. Thinking that the total cost for massively larger ships with much more features and more to do at the same cost as 2010 is nonsensical. 

 

A company that can only compete on price is in for a dark decade ahead when it is 30Bn in debt and still not profitable.

[bluekrush]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:56 PM, mz-s said:

Just since COVID:

The dinner buffet is full of dried out rice and potatoes, and they cut the chicken thighs into three pieces.

They give you half a baked potato and 3 salad-size shrimp in your shrimp cocktail in the dining room.

The breakfast buffet is absolutely disgusting.

Sea day brunch menu dramatically cut, hours cut.

24/7 pizza is no more. If you order pepperoni pizza you might get 3 pepperonis on your entire serving. Thats if your legs don't give out from standing in the 45 minute line.

No more late night snacks buffet. Instead, the pizza place that already has a tremendous line sits out a tray of Stouffer's lasagna on some nights maybe.

Ocean plaza buffet/drinks gone.

Deli menu cut, hours cut.

No more included room service, except coffee and dry danishes/cereal/milk during breakfast hours. You have to call that morning and order it. No more leaving a hanger out.

No more twice-daily cabin service. Before COVID it was unofficially gone, you could ask for it if you knew you could and they'd do it - but now it's not an option anymore.

They now serve Ore Ida fries at Guy's instead of fresh cut.

The ongoing severe bacon crisis.

No more port of call themed nights in the dining room.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting things.

 

Now does one "need" any of these things? No. But then again, nobody "needs" to go on a cruise. We aren't talking about a pharmacy or oxygen here, we're talking about a cruise.

 

And before someone pipes up to champion it - yes, I know they brought back ketchup soup during sea day brunch.

 

I don't particularly care if you say none of these things matter to you or not - I didn't take advantage of all of these things either - but they're still cutbacks in the experience. "Special touches" gone, if you will.

 

Carnival can still be a good value and I still like their product for what it is - but people should know what they're getting. It's no longer the special vacation it once was in my opinion.

This is so depressing. There’s no room service? Or you now have to pay for it? It sounds like the food quality has taken a dive. Is this the trend on all the boats now?  Maybe I need to take a few years off and do all inclusive hotels until they get everything back like before. I’m guessing this is the result of being short staffed like most industries since covid. 

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, bluekrush said:

This is so depressing. There’s no room service? Or you now have to pay for it? It sounds like the food quality has taken a dive. Is this the trend on all the boats now?  Maybe I need to take a few years off and do all inclusive hotels until they get everything back like before. I’m guessing this is the result of being short staffed like most industries since covid. 

 

On all Carnival ships, yes. They are $30Bn+ in debt and still not profitable. So they're cutting food as far as they can without mutiny, they've cut as many crew as possible without mutiny, cut hours at food venues, cut activities, while still trying to charge as much as they can for the cruise. But they're still not profitable. So they're in for a very dark decade ahead.

[pearose]

They used to have cloth table cloths and napkins in the main dining room, and I miss that.  Without it, it does take away a little bit from the dining experience. It is not enough of a big deal that I will complain about it to them, or choose not to sail Carnival, but I do miss it.  I do miss the twice a day cabin cleaning, but again, not a huge deal.  

[nybumpkin]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:45 AM, elcuchio24 said:

 

I much prefer the NEW special touches that have replaced the old ones.--better entertainment/better alternate dining venues/a slick and easy to use app/ships that ar 3x larger/rollercoasters/etc etc etc

 

Some people only want to be nostalgic around whats gone rather than whats been added. Or, just cruise HAL or another line that better represents your expectation

The entertainment is NOT better. With a few exceptions, I avoid most of the production shows (I've disliked Playlist Productions since they started) and opt for music in the lounges. The app? I hate it. I refuse to walk around with my phone all day. If those are the value adds you're thinking of, they're not for me. Am I a dinosaur? I guess so, according to your definition. However, I'm not dead yet - and I'm still spending my money.

 

Other cruise lines? Well, we have expanded. Cunard, not HAL. And Viking. And American Cruise Lines. I won't look for you on those sailings. But you're not getting me off Carnival.

[EngIceDave]

On 2/28/2023 at 9:32 AM, Roscoe13 said:

"You never close your eyes when I cruise your ships anymore..."

 

"When you close your eyes do you dream about me...."