New legal language from Celebrity?

[montythecat]

Apart from the COVID amendments the most obvious change for

UK residents seems to be that we are now prevented from using

American TAs. I haven’t done so but have been tempted with what

appear to be more competitive prices and greater flexibility,

particularly as far as cancellations are concerned. If I am reading

the changes correctly I guess it is not surprising that Celebrity is

closing this loophole.

[cruisingaussies]

3 hours ago, montythecat said:

Apart from the COVID amendments the most obvious change for

UK residents seems to be that we are now prevented from using

American TAs. I haven’t done so but have been tempted with what

appear to be more competitive prices and greater flexibility,

particularly as far as cancellations are concerned. If I am reading

the changes correctly I guess it is not surprising that Celebrity is

closing this loophole.

But would it be OK if you could supply a US address?

[the penguins]

17 minutes ago, cruisingaussies said:

But would it be OK if you could supply a US address?

We raised this with Future Cruises whilst onboard Silhouette and were told that X accepts the address and phone number you give them. We asked them to price a cruise using the US and UK offers. We booked it using the US option by giving our son's US address (he is a US citizen) and phone. X even added our UK phone as a contact number. You just have to accept that if you have a problem you will be arguing with X in the US which is much harder than dealing with them in the UK.

Check prices carefully as US ones are not always cheaper, remember to add the taxes/fees and you have to accept the risk of currency fluctuations.

[cruisingaussies]

Just now, the penguins said:

We raised this with Future Cruises whilst onboard Silhouette and were told that X accepts the address and phone number you give them. We asked them to price a cruise using the US and UK offers. We booked it using the US option by giving our son's US address (he is a US citizen) and phone. X even added our UK phone as a contact number. You just have to accept that if you have a problem you will be arguing with X in the US which is much harder than dealing with them in the UK.

Check prices carefully as US ones are not always cheaper, remember to add the taxes/fees and you have to accept the risk of currency fluctuations.

Thanks for the info. We’ve never booked through the US because of all of the above. We do however sometimes book through the UK because we have a TA who usually gives us much better deals than we can get in AUS, plus for the UK we don’t have the currency fluctuations to worry about. Now it seems that we’ll have to supply a UK address instead of AUS which again is no problem. Just need to check the UK versus AUS conditions. 

[the penguins]

2 minutes ago, cruisingaussies said:

Thanks for the info. We’ve never booked through the US because of all of the above. We do however sometimes book through the UK because we have a TA who usually gives us much better deals than we can get in AUS, plus for the UK we don’t have the currency fluctuations to worry about. Now it seems that we’ll have to supply a UK address instead of AUS which again is no problem. Just need to check the UK versus AUS conditions. 

Sounds good, just don't understand the "no currency fluctuations" unless you are paid in £'s.

[montythecat]

Interesting answers to the cruisingaussies question. I certainly 

don’t have a definitive answer but the responses so far are useful

in providing guidance. FWIW, I think I will stick with my English TA

who I trust and will provide a safety net if anything goes pear

shaped. I probably don’t have any other option now anyway !

[cruisingaussies]

7 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Sounds good, just don't understand the "no currency fluctuations" unless you are paid in £'s.

We have a sterling account in the UK, have had it for years and for a while were paid in sterling. So are busy depleting it, spending on cruises!  I have UK and AUS citizenship. I do always stipulate this to our UK TA, just to be sure it is still OK to book with them. 

[villauk]

57 minutes ago, the penguins said:

We raised this with Future Cruises whilst onboard Silhouette and were told that X accepts the address and phone number you give them. We asked them to price a cruise using the US and UK offers. We booked it using the US option by giving our son's US address (he is a US citizen) and phone. X even added our UK phone as a contact number. You just have to accept that if you have a problem you will be arguing with X in the US which is much harder than dealing with them in the UK.

Check prices carefully as US ones are not always cheaper, remember to add the taxes/fees and you have to accept the risk of currency fluctuations.

 

I’ve never provided a US address, and as I stated earlier, have booked in the US for years. What I will reiterate is the change in our travel insurance policy which now stipulates the booking must be be made in this country - something worth checking as this was never the case pre Covid. 

[cruisingaussies]

9 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

I’ve never provided a US address, and as I stated earlier, have booked in the US for years. What I will reiterate is the change in our travel insurance policy which now stipulates the booking must be be made in this country - something worth checking as this was never the case pre Covid. 

Now that is interesting I’ll make sure to check our AUS travel insurance, thanks for pointing it out. 

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, villauk said:

 

I’ve never provided a US address, and as I stated earlier, have booked in the US for years. What I will reiterate is the change in our travel insurance policy which now stipulates the booking must be be made in this country - something worth checking as this was never the case pre Covid. 

Our UK insurance covers any trip worldwide provided that the trip starts and ends in the UK - this has been the standard condition for years.

With regard to not providing a US address - whilst acceptable in the past (with most but not all cruise lines) this appears to be the major change in the new conditions.

[Ipeeinthepools]

5 hours ago, cruisingaussies said:

Thanks for the info. We’ve never booked through the US because of all of the above. We do however sometimes book through the UK because we have a TA who usually gives us much better deals than we can get in AUS, plus for the UK we don’t have the currency fluctuations to worry about. Now it seems that we’ll have to supply a UK address instead of AUS which again is no problem. Just need to check the UK versus AUS conditions. 

 

If you pay in full at the time of booking, does that eliminate the risk of currency fluctuations?

[cruisingaussies]

6 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

If you pay in full at the time of booking, does that eliminate the risk of currency fluctuations?

Yes it would. 

[villauk]

5 hours ago, the penguins said:

Our UK insurance covers any trip worldwide provided that the trip starts and ends in the UK - this has been the standard condition for years.

With regard to not providing a US address - whilst acceptable in the past (with most but not all cruise lines) this appears to be the major change in the new conditions.

 

And so is ours the same regarding worldwide trips. However, our policy now stipulates that it must be booked here too; apparently to stop you booking directly online with non U.K. sites. This is a first for us and I only noticed when I read the new travel insurance T&Cs . I did query with the provider and was informed it was because of all the claims it was receiving from people now booking directly online with unscrupulous TA sites/hotels abroad. Obviously I could seek alternative insurance providers, but I would then need to add the extra costs to any benefit I gained from booking in the US (currently it’s a free perk). So, for now, I want to know that my family is definitely covered should we need to make any claims, even though I could easily provide a US address.

Edited April 16, 2023 by villauk

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, villauk said:

 

And so is ours the same regarding worldwide trips. However, our policy now stipulates that it must be booked here too; apparently to stop you booking directly online with non U.K. sites. This is a first for us and I only noticed when I read the new travel insurance T&Cs . I did query with the provider and was informed it was because of all the claims it was receiving from people now booking directly online with unscrupulous TA sites/hotels abroad. Obviously I could seek alternative insurance providers, but I would then need to add the extra costs to any benefit I gained from booking in the US (currently it’s a free perk). So, for now, I want to know that my family is definitely covered should we need to make any claims, even though I could easily provide a US address.

Now I'm really curious.

We have insurance through the Nationwide and it has no such restrictions. Would you mind saying which company you used?

The rules seem very Draconian and strange. For example Booking.com is a Belgium company, Toursbylocals is Canadian, Expedia is based in Seattle so would they refuse to cover bookings through those companies?

I recently had to cancel a cruise booked in the US and the claim was settled in full within less than a week.

[villauk]

4 hours ago, the penguins said:

Now I'm really curious.

We have insurance through the Nationwide and it has no such restrictions. Would you mind saying which company you used?

The rules seem very Draconian and strange. For example Booking.com is a Belgium company, Toursbylocals is Canadian, Expedia is based in Seattle so would they refuse to cover bookings through those companies?

I recently had to cancel a cruise booked in the US and the claim was settled in full within less than a week.

Similar establishment, but not the Nationwide. These are new rules and were not in the T&Cs until very recently, certainly not pre-Covid. Would I feel comfortable using this policy when booking via my US TA, then the answer is no. As we are all aware, insurance companies will try their hardest not to have to pay out where they can. For future bookings in the US (I don’t only sail with X), I would purchase alternative insurance and complete my costings accordingly.

[the penguins]

8 hours ago, villauk said:

Similar establishment, but not the Nationwide. These are new rules and were not in the T&Cs until very recently, certainly not pre-Covid. Would I feel comfortable using this policy when booking via my US TA, then the answer is no. As we are all aware, insurance companies will try their hardest not to have to pay out where they can. For future bookings in the US (I don’t only sail with X), I would purchase alternative insurance and complete my costings accordingly.

Shame your not prepared to name the company as this could help others.

With regards to costs and paying out we have not had any issues with Nationwide paying our claims.

We have used them for 17 years and our experience to date is:

Total premiums (I am using Dollars to keep things simple but the premiums are in £. I also charge the whole cost of my package against the insurance whereas in reality it covers other things including mobile phone insurance and car breakdown cover.)

We are both now over 75 with pre existing health conditions all of which are covered.

Total premiums: 💲5285

Total claims - 5

Total value of claims after deducting any excesses. All claims paid in full.💲29650.

Average time to pay claims once all paperwork was completed: 14 days.

 

[hampshirelad]

When the exchange rates were better for sterling we booked with the company that liked to " Go for their Vacations" We found the prices very keen and the service outstanding. However we used to put together our own package and never missed a departure. Princess was one line that insisted on a US address. However the prices seems to have flattened out and because we only tip under duress the UK packages now seem to be all inclusive to get around that for the staff.

 

I had thought that a US site would quote a lower price for a cruise with a UK departure to factor in the cost of air , but that does not seem to be the case.

[phoenix_dream]

17 hours ago, villauk said:

Similar establishment, but not the Nationwide. These are new rules and were not in the T&Cs until very recently, certainly not pre-Covid. Would I feel comfortable using this policy when booking via my US TA, then the answer is no. As we are all aware, insurance companies will try their hardest not to have to pay out where they can. For future bookings in the US (I don’t only sail with X), I would purchase alternative insurance and complete my costings accordingly.

 No we are not all aware that insurance companies will try their hardest not to have to pay out when they can. This is a common belief spread through ignorance of the business and how it operates.   I worked for insurance companies for 30+ years, as did my husband, and that is just not the case overall.  People consistently expect companies to pay for claims that are not covered in their policies.  People consistently do not even read their policies and just assume something is covered when it is not.  Then they bad-mouth the companies when they don't get the money they were never entitled to in the first place because their policy didn't cover it.  They unfairly expect these companies to be charities rather than businesses and pay people because they are supposed to feel sorry for them.  What many people don't realize is that, at least in the US, insurance companies are highly regulated as to what they can charge, and are regularly audited to ensure they are handling claims legally.  Are there some bad apples here and there like all businesses?  Of course.  But as an overall statement that is completely false.  

Edited April 17, 2023 by phoenix_dream

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 4/15/2023 at 7:31 PM, montythecat said:

Apart from the COVID amendments the most obvious change for

UK residents seems to be that we are now prevented from using

American TAs. I haven’t done so but have been tempted with what

appear to be more competitive prices and greater flexibility,

particularly as far as cancellations are concerned. If I am reading

the changes correctly I guess it is not surprising that Celebrity is

closing this loophole.

Actually UK residents can use a US TA but need to also provide a US address.  We provide one for several friends.  Just lots harder.

 

[Pickels]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:44 PM, chamima said:

Just got this in an email from Celebrity.

Anyone know what it means in practical terms?

ABOUT YOUR UPCOMING TRAVELS

Dear Guest, We’ve made some important changes to our legal terms applicable to your cruise purchase and other activities, services, and products related to your cruise. Since you are currently booked on a voyage that departs on or after April 12, 2023, the new legal terms will apply to your cruise. No action is required on your part, but if you wish to view the changes that are now applicable to all guests booked on or after April 12, 2023, they’re available to you, here: https://www.celebritycruises.com/guest-terms Here’s a highlight of the most important changes:   The Cruise Ticket Contract or Booking Conditions applicable to your cruise purchase are now determined by your Primary Country of Residence. *   The forum selection, exclusive jurisdiction and choice of law provisions have been modified to and now correlate to your Primary Country of Residence*or the location of your cruise itinerary.   We have updated our cancellation and COVID-19 policies. We invite you to visit our newly created Guest Terms website to review, download, or print the terms and conditions that apply to you. Thank you again for choosing Celebrity Cruises. We can't wait to welcome you onboard soon! Sincerely, Celebrity Cruises *Primary Country of Residence means the country where you primarily reside at the time of booking the cruise as indicated by you, your agent, or other representative at the time of booking the cruise or at online check-in. This applies to each guest on a booking on an individual basis.

What this means is our next vacation will be on the Sandals ship 😁

[sofmall]

On 4/15/2023 at 5:00 PM, the penguins said:

Ship's have always had the right to refuse boarding, quarantine passengers etc ( we have always had to  complete a health form pre boarding) and the new rules just highlights that Covid is now being treated like other illnesses. We never travel without full  insurance which covers us for any medical issues including covid cover. If anyone chooses to travel without such insurance then it's a risk they have knowingly chosen to take.

Maybe it's different in the US, but here in Australia the travel insurance companies aren't treating Covid like other illnesses! We had our Commbank travel insurance all set up months ago for our upcoming Mediterranean B2B cruises. Then it became obvious, with the email Celebrity sent out including that we MUST have travel insurance covering Covid. We found our travel insurance covers Covid on the land portion but not on the cruise. So I'm trying to find a Medical Only policy that covers Covid AND on cruises (many don't for "multi night" cruises.... can't imagine a single night cruise!!!). I just got a quote for $870 for a medical basic policy that includes covid. Prior to checking it was a cruise, I had a $470 quote. Check CRUISE and wow, $870! 

I'm so over the way Covid continues to dominate thinking. On one hand bureaucracy says to move on, it's a part of life from now on, but on the other hand Covid constantly comes up as a scary dramatic event, as if we're still in 2020. When will Covid be considered another virus. We never had to take out med. insurance against sundry viruses, flu, colds... yet we still have to pay huge amounts to insure against an illness that is now part of life, and in many cases (our's included) milder than the common cold.
Sorry... end of rant!

 

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, sofmall said:

Maybe it's different in the US, but here in Australia the travel insurance companies aren't treating Covid like other illnesses! We had our Commbank travel insurance all set up months ago for our upcoming Mediterranean B2B cruises. Then it became obvious, with the email Celebrity sent out including that we MUST have travel insurance covering Covid. We found our travel insurance covers Covid on the land portion but not on the cruise. So I'm trying to find a Medical Only policy that covers Covid AND on cruises (many don't for "multi night" cruises.... can't imagine a single night cruise!!!). I just got a quote for $870 for a medical basic policy that includes covid. Prior to checking it was a cruise, I had a $470 quote. Check CRUISE and wow, $870! 

I'm so over the way Covid continues to dominate thinking. On one hand bureaucracy says to move on, it's a part of life from now on, but on the other hand Covid constantly comes up as a scary dramatic event, as if we're still in 2020. When will Covid be considered another virus. We never had to take out med. insurance against sundry viruses, flu, colds... yet we still have to pay huge amounts to insure against an illness that is now part of life, and in many cases (our's included) milder than the common cold.
Sorry... end of rant!

 

I would clarify what the lower price insurance actually covers 

Get Covid on the ship and if it's mild you will be quarantined in your cabin probably with a pro rata refund on the cruise fare - no insurance claim.

Get it badly and you will be disembarked so your land insurance will probably cover you.

[arealcheapskate]

13 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Get Covid on the ship and if it's mild you will be quarantined in your cabin probably with a pro rata refund on the cruise fare - no insurance claim.

 

Hence why people aren't testing. Out of sight, out of mind. 

 

Plenty of travel insurance provides a confinement to cabin cover where you get a set amount per day, on top of whatever refund you get. 

 

 

1 hour ago, sofmall said:

Maybe it's different in the US, but here in Australia the travel insurance companies aren't treating Covid like other illnesses!

Our Amex Platinum Charge insurance in Australia covers COVID no issues including on a cruise. In short.. get a better credit card!

 

https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/au/benefits/Platinum/PlatinumInsurance.pdf

Edited May 3, 2023 by arealcheapskate

[sofmall]

1 hour ago, arealcheapskate said:

 

Hence why people aren't testing. Out of sight, out of mind. 

 

Plenty of travel insurance provides a confinement to cabin cover where you get a set amount per day, on top of whatever refund you get. 

 

 

Our Amex Platinum Charge insurance in Australia covers COVID no issues including on a cruise. In short.. get a better credit card!

 

https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/au/benefits/Platinum/PlatinumInsurance.pdf

 

Get a better credit card 🙂  🙂 
Tried that, though not the Amex... will look into that.
Here we are, in our early 70's, self funded retirees, own a beachside home plus investment properties and Super, no debt, and we're not billionaires but we're certainly not broke!! So we applied months ago for a card that does cover covid in its Travel policies. We had to jump through hoops giving them more and more info. Finally.... they rejected us, no reason, said it could be our credit rating (gave us a code to open credit rating docs) or "something else". Well we found we had 100% credit rating. By speaking to a few friends they'd experienced the same thing. Rejection, looks like the something else is either age or being retired. 
Yet a young almost-kid who runs up debts on credit cards can get one at a drop of a hat!

[arealcheapskate]

1 minute ago, sofmall said:

Rejection, looks like the something else is either age or being retired. 

I'm sorry to hear that, it's generally income that they look for and not assets -- it's a pretty common thing unfortunately here in Oz. They generally don't look kindly on retired folks it's not really fair. 

 

What I've always suggested is to get your credit cards while employed and then just keep them into retirement.

 

Amex is pretty flexible though and cater to high net worth folks, might be worth looking into especially if you travel a lot. We get every dollar back and then some -- despite the high annual fee. 

 

As far as getting asked for COVID insurance that is so odd, maybe they have stopped doing that. We didn't get asked anything for our upcoming cruise in June on Apex. But then again we only booked a month ago sort of spur of the moment, maybe it's not required any more. But still essential IMO.