Travel Insurance alert for Ambassador!

[A.C.H]

A recent query on social media has revealed that those who have Travel Insurance as part of their Nationwide account package are not covered to travel with Ambassador.

It appears that the definition of a cruise on page 12 in the Nationwide Travel Insurance policy document states the cruise must be with a member of the Cruise Lines International Association, which Ambassador currently is not a member of.

UK Insurance, the Underwriters of the policy were unaware of this themselves until this week and are due to make a decision on whether they will cover Ambassador or not.

[A.C.H]

I have just had a call from very helpful person at UK Insurance who has confirmed that all currently Nationwide Travel Insurance policy holders will be covered, they are waiving the CLIA restriction. However, the person did say when your policy is up for renewal you must check to see if there are any changes to the CLIA stipulation, this hasn't been resolved as of yet.

[tim_london0]

well what a daft restriction

 

99% of the additional risk of having to cover someone for a cruise is the humongous costs associated with, the albeit very small possibility, of having to medevac someone from the middle of the ocean.

 

I fail to see how the cruise company's membership of some association can have any effect on this risk.

[A.C.H]

48 minutes ago, tim_london0 said:

well what a daft restriction

 

99% of the additional risk of having to cover someone for a cruise is the humongous costs associated with, the albeit very small possibility, of having to medevac someone from the middle of the ocean.

 

I fail to see how the cruise company's membership of some association can have any effect on this risk.

It's a bizarre situation as CLIA have no regulatory powers, its just a trade association. UK Insurance are baffled as Nationwide is the only company they underwrite for that has this clause in its policy. I suspect Nationwide will be amending that clause in due course.

[flossie009]

IMO this issue only affects the optional upgrade for "Cruise Cover" as this is the only place where the defined term "cruise" is used in the policy.

Generally an Ambassador cruise will still be a "trip" under the policy definition so the cover for cancellation, delay, medical expenses etc should still be covered.

When selling the cruise cover upgrade, UK Insurance should make it clear that this is only available for cruises on cruise lines that are members of CLIA.

[A.C.H]

1 hour ago, flossie009 said:

IMO this issue only affects the optional upgrade for "Cruise Cover" as this is the only place where the defined term "cruise" is used in the policy.

Generally an Ambassador cruise will still be a "trip" under the policy definition so the cover for cancellation, delay, medical expenses etc should still be covered.

When selling the cruise cover upgrade, UK Insurance should make it clear that this is only available for cruises on cruise lines that are members of CLIA.

Not correct, the offending section is on page 12 of the Nationwide Travel Insurance Policy document under 'Definitions'-

'Definitions

The definitions below apply to all of our terms and conditions including: • This policy booklet. • Any upgrades to your cover. • Any endorsements to your cover. All defned words show as bold wherever they appear.

Account holder The person or people named on the Nationwide FlexPlus current account.

Anticipated event Any event that you knew would happen or could reasonably have expected to happen at the time you became an insured person, the date when you booked your trip or when buying an upgrade, whichever is later.

Appointed representative The preferred law frm, solicitor, or other suitably qualifed person appointed by us to represent you under Legal Costs.

Business equipment Electrical equipment including computers, business books, stationery and offce equipment that you use for business purposes and is owned by you or is your legal responsibility. This does not include mobile phones and tablets.

Business samples Any business stock that you own or that you are legally responsible for.

Close relative Your partner and your: • Parent, parent-in-law, step-parent or legal guardian. • Child, child-in-law, step-child or foster child. • Sibling, sibling-in-law, half-sibling or step-sibling. • Grandparent or grandchild.

Colleague A person in the UK who works for the same company as you and if they were away from work for one or more complete working days at the same time as you, would prevent the effective continuation of that business.

Conditions of carriage Your rights and responsibilities when you buy a ticket to travel with a transport operator. Details can usually be found on the company’s website.

Consumable item Items that are designed to be used up including tobacco products, scents and perfumes, cosmetics, skin care products, food and drink.

Court Court, tribunal or other suitable authority.

Cruise A pre-booked trip of at least 48 hours organised by a Cruise Lines International Association member on a boat or ship with a documented schedule including at least one port stop....'

As you can see both cruise cover and upgrades to cruise cover are covered by how Nationwide defines a cruise.

[flossie009]

7 minutes ago, A.C.H said:

the offending section is on page 12 of the Nationwide Travel Insurance Policy document under 'Definitions'-

You are correct; but the defined term "cruise" does not occur in Parts 1, 2 or 3 of the policy and therefore, IMO, NW/UKI could not use that definition to refuse a claim made under those parts of the policy.

For parts 1, 2 & 3 of the policy the cover is for a "trip", the definition of which does not exclude cruises.

The defined term "cruise" only comes into play for the extra cover acquired by purchasing the optional upgrade for cruise cover in part 4 of the policy.

 

However, I am sure there is someone on CC with a legal qualification who could confirm.

 

I agree that it would be simpler if NW could remove the reference to CLIA.

 

If I remember correctly NW got into a bit of confusion previously when there were domestic cruises in the UK during the pandemic and one of their definitions appeared to imply that the medical cover was insufficient to satisfy cruise line requirements.

[A.C.H]

12 minutes ago, flossie009 said:

You are correct; but the defined term "cruise" does not occur in Parts 1, 2 or 3 of the policy and therefore, IMO, NW/UKI could not use that definition to refuse a claim made under those parts of the policy.

For parts 1, 2 & 3 of the policy the cover is for a "trip", the definition of which does not exclude cruises.

The defined term "cruise" only comes into play for the extra cover acquired by purchasing the optional upgrade for cruise cover in part 4 of the policy.

 

However, I am sure there is someone on CC with a legal qualification who could confirm.

 

I agree that it would be simpler if NW could remove the reference to CLIA.

 

If I remember correctly NW got into a bit of confusion previously when there were domestic cruises in the UK during the pandemic and one of their definitions appeared to imply that the medical cover was insufficient to satisfy cruise line requirements.

But the definition of a Cruise calls it a 'Trip'-

'Cruise A pre-booked trip of at least 48 hours organised by a Cruise Lines International Association member on a boat or ship with a documented schedule including at least one port stop.'

[Host Jazzbeau]

All cruises are trips, but all trips aren't cruises.  My reading agrees with @flossie009

[A.C.H]

8 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

All cruises are trips, but all trips aren't cruises.  My reading agrees with @flossie009

Nationwide defines a trip as-

'Trip A journey that begins and ends at your home during the period of insurance that is: • Outside the UK. • Within the UK, where you are staying in pre-booked commercially operated accommodation for two or more consecutive nights.'

 

Therefore a Cruise is a Trip as their definition of a Trip states.

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 hours ago, A.C.H said:

Nationwide defines a trip as-

'Trip A journey that begins and ends at your home during the period of insurance that is: • Outside the UK. • Within the UK, where you are staying in pre-booked commercially operated accommodation for two or more consecutive nights.'

 

Therefore a Cruise is a Trip as their definition of a Trip states.

Exactly as I said:  "all cruises are trips."  That still does not mean that a trip is equated to a cruise – Nationwide insures many trips that have nothing to do with a ship.  So, all trips are not necessarily cruises.

 

Scroll down to "Illicit Minor Fallacy" on this page:

https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/list-of-syllogistic-fallacies/

 

[A.C.H]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:22 AM, Host Jazzbeau said:

Exactly as I said:  "all cruises are trips."  That still does not mean that a trip is equated to a cruise – Nationwide insures many trips that have nothing to do with a ship.  So, all trips are not necessarily cruises.

 

Scroll down to "Illicit Minor Fallacy" on this page:

https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/list-of-syllogistic-fallacies/

 

All Cruises are classes as Trips as per the Definition explanation-

 

'Definitions The definitions below apply to all of our terms and conditions including: • This policy booklet. • Any upgrades to your cover. • Any endorsements to your cover. All defined words show as bold wherever they appear.'

 

'Cruise A pre-booked trip of at least 48 hours organised by a Cruise Lines International Association member on a boat or ship with a documented schedule including at least one port stop.'

 

'Trip A journey that begins and ends at your home during the period of insurance that is: • Outside the UK. • Within the UK, where you are staying in pre-booked commercially operated accommodation for two or more consecutive nights.'

 

The above is taken directly from the Policy document itself, with the sections in bold as they appear. So, the Policy tells you to look at the words in bold and then at further defined wording. So it should be obvious that a Cruise is defined as a Trip which is further explained under the Trip section of the Definitions.

This is how UK Insurance took the above to mean.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Over and out.

[A.C.H]

There may be some good news on the horizon.

The underwriters have confirmed to a person who was looking to renew their Nationwide travel insurance policy that they are going to rewrite the offending clause.

 

[dsrdsrdsr]

I'm pretty sure that if someone makes a claim on the basis that they had cruise cover and they thought Ambassador sold cruises, the insurance company couldn't legally weasel out of it by referring to the small print on page 12.  If they wanted to say that they use a different definition of a word (any word) from how the rest of the world understands it, they have to do it loud and clear - not in the small print.

[A.C.H]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:30 PM, dsrdsrdsr said:

I'm pretty sure that if someone makes a claim on the basis that they had cruise cover and they thought Ambassador sold cruises, the insurance company couldn't legally weasel out of it by referring to the small print on page 12.  If they wanted to say that they use a different definition of a word (any word) from how the rest of the world understands it, they have to do it loud and clear - not in the small print.

Insurance companies rely on the small print to wriggle out of paying up, I know because I've been stung like this!

[yorkshire traveller]

I am very confused by this situation with Nationwide insurance.  We are wanting to booked a cruise on Ambassador Ambition. I rang our insured to clarify whether or not we would be insured and was told no we wouldn't.  Do you think I have I been given the wrong  information?

[A.C.H]

23 minutes ago, yorkshire traveller said:

I am very confused by this situation with Nationwide insurance.  We are wanting to booked a cruise on Ambassador Ambition. I rang our insured to clarify whether or not we would be insured and was told no we wouldn't.  Do you think I have I been given the wrong  information?

It's still very unclear if UK Travel Insurance, the Underwriters, will cover Ambassador cruises. Evidence from Social Media suggests that Nationwide will cover basic cruise cover but not the optional extras such as missed ports etc. You really need to contact the underwriters for clarification.

[yorkshire traveller]

3 minutes ago, A.C.H said:

It's still very unclear if UK Travel Insurance, the Underwriters, will cover Ambassador cruises. Evidence from Social Media suggests that Nationwide will cover basic cruise cover but not the optional extras such as missed ports etc. You really need to contact the underwriters for clarification.

How would I do that please?

[A.C.H]

You need to check your Nationwide Policy Documentstion or phone Nationwide to get the number.

[A.C.H]

Last week I put in an official complaint to Nationwide about the restrictive definition of a Cruise on page 12 of the Nationwide Travel Insurance policy document.
On Thursday I received a telephone call from a representative of UK Travel Insurance, the Underwriters, who have explained the situation.
As of now Nationwide are not going to change the  definition in the policy document. However, they will provide basic cruise cover under the policy but will no longer offer the optional extended cover that includes things like missed ports and cabin confinement to companies who are not Cruise Line International Association members.
This is the official line from Nationwide.

[flossie009]

See my post #5 from 3 months ago 🙄

 

[A.C.H]

4 hours ago, flossie009 said:

See my post #5 from 3 months ago 🙄

 

If you read my post you will see its now official confirmation that Nationwide will not be changing the wording to their travel insurance policy document leading to the bizarre and baffling situation where they are willing to give cruise cover to non-CLIA cruise companies but not the optional cover for missed ports etc, because as we know CLIA members never cancel port visits or cause passengers to be confined to their cabins....

[flossie009]

I am pleased to see that NW has confirmed my initial interpretation of the insurance coverage (post #5) and that the scaremongering warning of no cover given in some social media posts was incorrect.

 

At least those with NW Travel Insurance choosing Ambassador now know not to bother paying for the optional additional cover offered by NW/UKI.

Presumably those that feel they were previously mis-sold the additional cover will seek reimbursement of the premium.

[A.C.H]

5 hours ago, flossie009 said:

I am pleased to see that NW has confirmed my initial interpretation of the insurance coverage (post #5) and that the scaremongering warning of no cover given in some social media posts was incorrect.

 

At least those with NW Travel Insurance choosing Ambassador now know not to bother paying for the optional additional cover offered by NW/UKI.

Presumably those that feel they were previously mis-sold the additional cover will seek reimbursement of the premium.

Actually, up to 3 weeks ago some people calling Nationwide to renew their travel insurance were still being told Nationwide wouldn't give cruise cover to Ambassador cruise passengers. The message hopefully has now got through to the call centre.