Shocking - Looked At Current Cruise Critic Reviews

[Markanddonna]

17 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

And yet I found the newer ships to have higher rankings and the older ones to have lower rankings.

 

If my M class cruise that has a 3.7 ranking is inflated I would like to know...

No, different cruise line. I was on the Constellation in April and would have given it a 5 star.  I think I did!

[shipshape sam]

2 hours ago, Jim_Iain said:

I think Cruise Reviews can be like reviews on Amazon -  15% hate the product even if 85% rate it exceptional. 

 

On both I enjoy to read a perspective and discount the really high and really low reviews and find the most accurate reflection somewhere in the middle.   It is also interesting that two people review the exact same cruise and have 180 degree reviews.       A review is simply one's person perspective and may be jaded in either direction depending on many small factors that may build up to either a really good cruise and one that was disappointing.

Agree that reviews can be all over the spectrum.  In fact I have read some reviews and then see a review from the  same sailing and it is the polar opposite.

 

We sailed Beyond this past January and had a great cruise.  I would suspect you can find a negative review from the same sailing. 

.  

I will say that Celebrity and their pricing model AND other cruise lines now  seem to be undercutting  their affinity programs.  We are Elite Plus with no hope of making Zenith.

 

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Agreed.  That is why my cut off point is at 20% or a 4.0.

 

Perhaps you can explain why the reviews have decreased from 4.5 to much much lower.  What did Celebrity do to make so many people unhappy?

 

My favorite steakhouse only gets a 4.8.  Yet they cook every steak to perfection.  Nowhere the reviews Celebrity is currently getting.

 

One would assume that the current experience is not matching the previous?  What did Celebrity do to these people?  

 

From 4.5s to 4.1s to 3.7s on my booked cruise...

 

We are not talking about a restaurant where I can try it out, and if it does not work out I will not go again.  We are talking vacations that are in the realm of 10k or better and multiple weeks.

 

 

At one point in time Celebrity was better than anything on land period.  I am not sure that is the case now.

 

My favorite hotel gets a 4.5.  Yet my next cruise ship on Celebrity gets a 3.7.  Why?

Or it just might be change in attitudes since Covid. With the travel crush people seem to be much more demanding and less patient than before Covid. I would not be surprised if the exact same experience before and after Covid would result in different scores.

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

Or it just might be change in attitudes since Covid. With the travel crush people seem to be much more demanding and less patient than before Covid. I would not be surprised if the exact same experience before and after Covid would result in different scores.

The hotel ratings seem to be about the same.  Sure they dipped when housekeeping was not cleaning their rooms daily,   surprise surprise,  but now they are back to normal ranges.

 

Why are the cruise line ratings so low lately?

Edited June 3, 2023 by NMTraveller

[markeb]

4 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Perhaps you can explain why the reviews have decreased from 4.5 to much much lower.  What did Celebrity do to make so many people unhappy?

 

Are they actually different ratings? That's a statistical question, BTW. Has nothing to do with the cruise line.

 

I know nothing about the rating populations, number of respondents, the variance, standard deviations, confidence intervals, or anything else. But 4.5 to 4.1 may actually be statistically the same score. Or not. It's even less likely there's a real difference between 4.1 and 3.9, so the less than 4.0 cutoff almost certainly can't be supported by any statistical analysis when compared to the upper 3's.

 

Most analyses I've seen or done of qualitative data (which this really is; there's a number assigned, but that's not based on any objective measurement) divide results into some larger category. For instance, it's pretty common to lump "strongly agree" and "agree" together for analysis. So on this type of survey that would be anything from maybe a 3.5 to a 5.0. It's a survey method for dealing with extremes (and extreme opinions). Quintiles are fairly common, so 0-1 would be the same, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5. It probably works better if you don't cut on whole numbers (1.5-2.5, for instance), as people tend to make a hard cut on a whole number even if they don't intend that much of a differentiation in reality. It's harder to do, but analyzing the trends in the comments is probably much more useful than the numbers. You will find someone who's verbiage boils down to everything was perfect, but they give a score of 4. Or everything was horrible and the score was 3.5. I could care less about species or size of lobster, so that wouldn't effect my numerical rating at all, but it would impact a lot of people's ratings. I guess that means that the statistician in me would give little or no relevance to the actual value of numerical ratings, and little significance to change in those ratings without data on the populations (since they may not be the same over time) doing the rating. There are entire graduate level course on this, BTW, which I'm thankful I never had to take!

 

And, yes, I do look at hotel and restaurant ratings, but I usually do the Amazon thing and look at the top good ratings and the top poor ratings to see if the stated reasons are relevant to me. Which is what I'd suggest here. If the reasons behind the lower ratings are more important to you than the reasons behind the higher ratings, then buy a different product or take a different cruise. If the reasons for the higher ratings are more important, then buy the product or take the cruise. Statistics are a reflection of the past, not a prediction of the future. Either option may be right on any given day...

[NMTraveller]

31 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Are they actually different ratings? That's a statistical question, BTW. Has nothing to do with the cruise line.

 

To go from a 4.5 to a 4.1 it requires a bunch of lesser reviews to make it to that lower level...

 

While a mean over the last 3 months would be more relevant my prediction is that it would be even lower...

 

Sure I would like to see the average Cruise Critic review for a given ship over the last 3 months.  Cruise Critic are you listening?  That would have more relevance and probably yet be more shocking...

 

(Long version coming)

We could do most of the statistical analysis with the variables provided,  but WHY?  When the answer is so obvious?  It is not like we are dealing with small deltas...

 

Now I suppose that we could scrape the web and derive our own statistics from cruiser perceptions and reviews on social media and figure out the best cruise line and ships using AI and ML.  But that would be more work than I want to do to figure out my next vacation. 🙂

 

I have done this for airlines data 🙂

 

I just want a simple TripAdvisor ranking system that ranks the cruise ships for me.

Edited June 3, 2023 by NMTraveller

[Lastdance]

These are some of the questions that I tend to think about before I book a cruise:

 

Do you really decide whether or not to take a cruise based on only reviews?  Have you considered that people write reviews for various reasons and not just to give you their personal perspective?  Do you feel that it is your responsibility to write a review and share everything that went right or wrong?  Are you more concerned with facts or opinions?  Are your decision-making skills based on the last cruise that you took, along with whether or not it was up to your standards?  Do you tend to remember things as being more positive or negative as time goes by?  Isn’t it your real experience with cruising that counts?  What do you do if your cruise goes awry?

 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Lastdance

[NMTraveller]

I base it upon a ranking system.  If something gets a 5 out of 5 it gets my attention.

 

A 3 out of 5 is normally not worth my time...

 

Sure if I find out my real experience is different than everyone's else then that might make a difference.

Edited June 3, 2023 by NMTraveller

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

To go from a 4.5 to a 4.1 it requires a bunch of lesser reviews to make it to that lower level...

 

While a mean over the last 3 months would be more relevant my prediction is that it would be even lower...

 

Sure I would like to see the average Cruise Critic review for a given ship over the last 3 months.  Cruise Critic are you listening?  That would have more relevance and probably yet be more shocking...

 

We could do most of the statistical analysis with the variables provided,  but WHY?  When the answer is so obvious?  It is not like we are dealing with small deltas...

 

The mean only matters if the survey populations are actually statistically the same...

 

For the record, I suspect there is a difference. But if the difference is due to population differences as much as scoring, you're dealing with selection bias. You can't fix selection bias with statistics.

 

An actual analysis of comments would give a very good idea if there's a real change. And arguably be much more relevant to decision making. You just need a lot of text files and an underpaid (or unpaid) 23 year old grad student...

 

I haven't been following cruise reviews; my next two cruises are on Celebrity and pretty much locked in. After that, I'm thinking somewhere near Florence and Montalcino and a nice vineyard. Which has nothing to do with cruise reviews. We want to do something different, and a lot of that is well away from the ocean.

[phoenix_dream]

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

Or it just might be change in attitudes since Covid. With the travel crush people seem to be much more demanding and less patient than before Covid. I would not be surprised if the exact same experience before and after Covid would result in different scores.

I do think you are on to something here.  IMHO overall behavior in general on and off ships has reached new levels of entitlement and rudeness.  For example, I have never in my many years of life seen the amount of horrendous driving behaviors as I have seen since Covid.  Drive close to the speed limit and you'll be run off the road!  Cars zipping in and out of lanes.  Ugh!  Look at the crime happenings - we won't get into political debates here just look at facts - gangs of people smashing store windows and grabbing whatever they can find I guess because they figure it's owed to them, and crimes of much worse consequence.

 

One thing I've also noticed on these boards is that most (not all!) of the really ranting complaining is from people who rarely participate in the general, asking questions type of posts.  They come onboard here just to rant and rave about their perceived problems (some valid of course and some so entitled and snobbish they are beyond belief).  

 

Have things slipped?  Of course.  Hello, there was a pandemic where the cruise lines lost millions of dollars.  Something has to give.  They have to recoup their losses and of course their passengers have to provide the way to do that.  Do I like all the changes?  Of course not but most of them I understand.  Have I had a great time on all the many cruises I've sailed on Celebrity since restart?  Yes I certainly have.  

 

 

[NMTraveller]

4 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

The mean only matters if the survey populations are actually statistically the same...

 

Or somewhat similiar.  I would be equally shocked if the Celebrity demographic had changed so radically.  Have fun in Florence.  I want to do the Amalfi Coast.

[NMTraveller]

20 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I do think you are on to something here.  IMHO overall behavior in general on and off ships has reached new levels of entitlement and rudeness.  For example, I have never in my many years of life seen the amount of horrendous driving behaviors as I have seen since Covid.  Drive close to the speed limit and you'll be run off the road!  Cars zipping in and out of lanes.  Ugh!  Look at the crime happenings - we won't get into political debates here just look at facts - gangs of people smashing store windows and grabbing whatever they can find I guess because they figure it's owed to them, and crimes of much worse consequence.

 

Move to another state...  There are better places...

 

I moved and don't regret it.

 

Now I see why perceptions are so skewed...

Edited June 3, 2023 by NMTraveller

[RTShaker]

Realistically, most reviews are either high praise or condemnation. Very few write a review if the experience is not either exceptional or horrendous. Combine that with the "rose coloured glasses" from not having cruised for a few years and you get a lot of not glowing reviews.

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

 

The mean only matters if the survey populations are actually statistically the same...

 

So following the totality of the thread cruisers perceptions have changed because DC cruisers,  NY cruisers, and Chicago cruisers  have become entitled and think that they deserve a better experience than before?  🙂🙂 

 

I am trying to figure out why you think that the Celebrity cruising population has changed so radically.

 

My own perceptions are the same and I have been told by others that I should lower them.

 

Are these rude cruisers cruising on Celebrity?  Oh wait if they are in the statical population they would be.  Rude cruisers check.  Time to find another line.

 

Was your agument different?

Edited June 3, 2023 by NMTraveller

[Lastdance]

1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

Or somewhat similiar.  I would be equally shocked if the Celebrity demographic had changed so radically.  Have fun in Florence.  I want to do the Amalfi Coast.

I spent 22 days on Beyond, along with 8 days in Sorrento in May.  The Amalfi Coast was more crowded than I had ever seen it; people were everywhere making it difficult to get to places. The ferries had standing room only and were totally filled.  Honestly, I wanted to be back on Beyond!  To survive the crowds, we ventured out early in the mornings and just got lost in areas we had never seen before...that helped, but Positano and Amalfi, not to mention Capri were busting at their seams...it was nice to get off the beaten track!

Edited June 3, 2023 by Lastdance

[NMTraveller]

1 minute ago, Lastdance said:

I spent 22 days on Beyond, along with 8 days in Sorrento in May.  The Amalfi Coast was more crowded than I had ever seen it; people were everywhere making it difficult to get to places. The ferries had standing room only and were totally filled.  Honestly, I wanted to be back on Beyond!  To survive the crowds, we ventured out early in the mornings and just got lost in areas we had never seen before...that helped, but Positano and Amalfi, not to mention Capri were busting at their seams...it was nice to get off the beaten track!

Thanks for the review.  I will try to go there in the offseason...

[markeb]

6 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

So following the totality of the thread cruisers perceptions have changed because DC cruisers,  NY cruisers, and Chicago cruisers  have become entitled and think that they deserve a better experience than before?  🙂🙂 

 

I am trying to figure out why you think that the Celebrity cruising population has changed so radically.

 

My own perceptions are the same and I have been told by others that I should lower them.

 

Are these rude cruisers cruising on Celebrity?

You’re misunderstanding. I don’t. I have no more data they’re different than you have that they’re the same. You’re putting a lot of credence to changes in numerical scores. I have no data to know if those are real differences. They may be. They may not be. That’s my point. 

[NMTraveller]

Just now, markeb said:

You’re misunderstanding. I don’t. I have no more data they’re different than you have that they’re the same. You’re putting a lot of credence to changes in numerical scores. I have no data to know if those are real differences. They may be. They may not be. That’s my point. 

But they are very big differences...

It would take very big population changes to account for the big deltas.

 

What you are talking about would apply to smaller deltas.

 

[smtcan]

When I first joined Cruise Critic I wrote reviews.They were generally favourable because I was fairly new to cruising and everything was wonderful.  After trying several different lines we settled on Celebrity as our first choice when researching itineraries.  Obviously pricing entered into the equation, but it was rare for us to select a different line.  I stopped writing reviews because there was nothing different to say.

After 30+ cruises, the majority on Celebrity we are still happy with the product although not always with the price. 

[markeb]

Just now, NMTraveller said:

But they are very big differences...

It would take very big population changes to account for the big deltas.

 

What you are talking about would apply to smaller deltas.

 

Time for me to stop. That’s not necessarily true. But beyond Cruise Critic. Enjoy your next cruise. 

[NMTraveller]

2 minutes ago, smtcan said:

When I first joined Cruise Critic I wrote reviews.They were generally favourable because I was fairly new to cruising and everything was wonderful.  After trying several different lines we settled on Celebrity as our first choice when researching itineraries.  Obviously pricing entered into the equation, but it was rare for us to select a different line.  I stopped writing reviews because there was nothing different to say.

After 30+ cruises, the majority on Celebrity we are still happy with the product although not always with the price. 

Keep on writing reviews.  All are appreciated.  The more the better.

[NMTraveller]

28 minutes ago, markeb said:

Time for me to stop. That’s not necessarily true. But beyond Cruise Critic. Enjoy your next cruise. 

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree.  Or perhaps we just do the math on our next cruise 🙂  Anyways to go from a 4.5 to a 4.1 in a short period of time requires a very large number of more negative reviews below 4.5 in a short time period.  That would require a large population change to account for that large difference and the results to be the same.

 

Based upon the number of negative sentiments on this board lately,  I would attribute it to that.  AI ML vs modern statistics.

 

Anyways I think that we are putting the rest of the board to sleep with our NERD talk.  ZZZ.

 

And you enjoy your next cruise.

Edited June 4, 2023 by NMTraveller

[SPacificbound]

Wow.

 

phoenix_dream may be on to something.

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

The hotel ratings seem to be about the same.  Sure they dipped when housekeeping was not cleaning their rooms daily,   surprise surprise,  but now they are back to normal ranges.

 

Why are the cruise line ratings so low lately?

1. Cruising came back later than hotels.  Hotels tended to remain open during Covid.  Even before Covid there was a lot of variation between hotels even in the same chain.  Customers might be invested in a hotel chain, but not particular hotels.

2. Cruisers posting on CC tend to be a subset of all cruisers that include a number of those invested in particular cruise lines, who tend to react negatively to any changes

3. With the 2 year shutdown and the issues during restart, there are more changes occurring at one time (see item 2)

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, Lastdance said:

I spent 22 days on Beyond, along with 8 days in Sorrento in May.  The Amalfi Coast was more crowded than I had ever seen it; people were everywhere making it difficult to get to places. The ferries had standing room only and were totally filled.  Honestly, I wanted to be back on Beyond!  To survive the crowds, we ventured out early in the mornings and just got lost in areas we had never seen before...that helped, but Positano and Amalfi, not to mention Capri were busting at their seams...it was nice to get off the beaten track!

Just got back from 40 days in Europe.  One of several trips taken in the past 2 years.  Attitudes have changed since pre-covid.  We have seen tourists acting poorly in numbers far beyond what was normal in the past.  Far more complaints and rude behavior to hotel, restaurant and airline staff.  Rules ignored at tourist venues.  People upset with prices and because the prices are higher want a higher level of service.  Locals getting upset with massive crowds and tourists behaving badly.