American Express offer on Oceania cruises

[cruisingxpert]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

This is new to me. We booked 7 O cruises so far, never got $300 OBC as part of a standard perk. OBC might be part of what TA gives you, or on board booking benefit, or part of Oceania Club, but I never heard about it as a standard perk.

We are Canadian.  We pay the same for the Amex Platinum and get half the perks.  Amex won't give the 300 plus wine tasting for Canadians and we also don't get no foreign exchange perk that Amex cardholders in the States do.

[FlyerTalker]

3 minutes ago, cruisingxpert said:

We are Canadian.  We pay the same for the Amex Platinum and get half the perks.  Amex won't give the 300 plus wine tasting for Canadians and we also don't get no foreign exchange perk that Amex cardholders in the States do.

 

OTOH, you get travel credits and dining credits that don't go to USA cardholders.

 

If you think Amex is a bad deal, just cancel the card.

 

 

[Sthrngary]

OK, so here is the bottom line.  

 

1. Credit Card Exclusive Perks:  Call your credit card company and see what cruise perks that have if any.  The best part of a great credit card is leveraging every single dollar of value.  Whether travel related, insurance lost prevention or any other perk they have that they owe you. 
2. Travel Agencies or Agents:  If the agency provides perk, separate from Oceania or your credit card, by all means leverage them.  Worth the due diligence to provide some value for your vacation. 
3. Oceania: If sales come up, and you can gain a better deal, upgrade or any value.  Check to see what will benefit you and if the rules are you can't do credit card perks and cruise brand perks, do the math.

 

We all win when we are educated consumers.  We all win when we ask and re-ask questions. We all win when we debate how to gain the vest value. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

[FlyerTalker]

59 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Then the other side of the coin, many smaller businesses won’t accept AMEX cards because they charge 7-7.5% of sale.

 

Try again.  Most Amex transactions are between 2.5 and 3.5 percent, between the merchant and Amex (depending on the merchant and their volumes)

 

 

 

 

[pinotlover]

5 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Try again.  Most Amex transactions are between 2.5 and 3.5 percent, between the merchant and Amex (depending on the merchant and their volumes)

 

 

 

 

That may be the case for large airlines and hotels. I can tell you for restaurants ( non chain) and small businesses it’s 7%. That’s why many won’t accept their cards, particularly European small businesses.

[ak1004]

7 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

OTOH, you get travel credits and dining credits that don't go to USA cardholders.

 

If you think Amex is a bad deal, just cancel the card.

 

 

 

Amex US cardholders get better deals and perks than Canadian Amex cardholders. It's a well known fact.

 

As an example, Amex US can transfer MR points to KLM, British Airways and Delta at 1:1 ratio, while Canadians get only 0.75 points for each MR from those partners. Also no cruise perks for Canadians.

 

Doesn't mean that Amex is a bad deal (we have 7 Amex cards in our family), but it's a much better deal for the Americans. 

[FlyerTalker]

54 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

As an example, Amex US can transfer MR points to KLM, British Airways and Delta at 1:1 ratio, while Canadians get only 0.75 points for each MR from those partners. Also no cruise perks for Canadians.

 

And Canadians earn 1 MR point for every 1 CAD.  Which is the same as getting 1.37 MR for every US dollar charged on a USA card.  So Canadians earn at a rate of 37% higher, while getting dinged 25% less on redemptions.  Seems like that favors those north of the border.

 

Wish that I would get 1.37 points per USD instead of just 1.

 

 

[ak1004]

13 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

And Canadians earn 1 MR point for every 1 CAD.  Which is the same as getting 1.37 MR for every US dollar charged on a USA card.  So Canadians earn at a rate of 37% higher, while getting dinged 25% less on redemptions.  Seems like that favors those north of the border.

 

Wish that I would get 1.37 points per USD instead of just 1.

 

 

 

No because we spend in CAD too. So every 100 MR are worth $1 if spent in Amex, but it's $100 USD in the US but $100 CAD in Canada. We also spend those points in Canada, and prices in CAD are not the same as in USD. And if you transfer them to British Airways or KLM, you need same number of points to book the flight, but in Canada you get 25% less points.

[FlyerTalker]

10 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

No because we spend in CAD too. So every 100 MR are worth $1 if spent in Amex, but it's $100 USD in the US but $100 CAD in Canada. We also spend those points in Canada, and prices in CAD are not the same as in USD. And if you transfer them to British Airways or KLM, you need same number of points to book the flight, but in Canada you get 25% less points.

 

But you earned them at a 37% higher rate.

 

Let's try this again.

 

You spend the equivalent of 100 USD.  That gets you 100 MR points on a USA card.

 

If you spend that same 100 USD worth on a Canadian card, you get 137 MR points.

 

Convert them to airline points and you have 100 airline points with the former, and 102.75 points with the latter.

 

Don't be distracted by "prices are not the same".  Utilize the same base currency and work the numbers.  Or do the calculations with spend of 100 CAD, which equals 73 USD.  You'd have 100 MR points and only 73 MR points.  And you still get more with a Canadian card.

 

I was on the board of an organization that worked on both sides of the border.  Worst thing we had to deal with is that both countries called the currency the "dollar", which meant there was a ton of conflating between the two.  Better if one (either for that matter) was the "gizmo" so there would be a clear differentiation between the two.

 

Or better still, convert both to and from Swiss Francs and you will again see the difference.

 

But if you think you are getting screwed, why should actual math prove otherwise.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by FlyerTalker

[Sthrngary]

3 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

But you earned them at a 37% higher rate.

 

Let's try this again.

 

You spend the equivalent of 100 USD.  That gets you 100 MR points on a USA card.

 

If you spend that same 100 USD worth on a Canadian card, you get 137 MR points.

 

Convert them to airline points and you have 100 airline points with the former, and 102.75 points with the latter.

 

Don't be distracted by "prices are not the same".  Utilize the same base currency and work the numbers.  Or do the calculations with spend of 100 CAD, which equals 73 USD.  You'd have 100 MR points and only 73 MR points.  And you still get more with a Canadian card.

 

I was on the board of an organization that worked on both sides of the border.  Worst thing we had to deal with is that both countries called the currency the "dollar", which meant there was a ton of conflating between the two.  Better if one (either for that matter) was the "gizmo" so there would be a clear differentiation between the two.

 

Or better still, convert both to and from Swiss Francs and you will again see the difference.

 

But if you think you are getting screwed, why should actual math prove otherwise.

 

 

@FlyerTalker So I expanded your signature and read all your quotes.  I loved them. Especially the quote from "Dirty Harry".  Look, the world is a confusing place.  Especially on travel.  We all get locked in to our belief systems.  Human nature. Sometimes we are right and can prove it.  Sometimes we are wrong but would rather fight than lose the debate.  

 

All any of us can do it share what we have a certain level of expertise in.  You obviously know Flying/Air travel.  You also have taken the time to express your views using math and an algorithm.  I am NOT a very smart man but this is what I do know.  When my 31 year old daughter calls me on the phone and is crying she does not understand, investing, money management, creating increased wealth and begs me for help, I give it to her.  I have spent hours days and weeks giving her how to approach this part of her life.  I put it in writing, excel spreadsheet, links to smart people. Why, because she was crying, upset and I felt she wanted to improve here outcomes. 

 

The work is well documents, researched verified, and confirmed.  My daughter would never know all that,  because she never reviews it.  Now take other topics that I have done the same thing and effort for her.  Why do I always do all this work for her, she is my child, my daughter my blood.  Every time the tears are gone and my efforts are wasted.  What I learned? Share your idea, do your debate, always be kind and nice knowing that that is the best approach.  Never think any part of your effort will be appreciated. Not the way this whole human thing tends to work for me at least. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

 

 

[ak1004]

21 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

But you earned them at a 37% higher rate.

 

Let's try this again.

 

You spend the equivalent of 100 USD.  That gets you 100 MR points on a USA card.

 

If you spend that same 100 USD worth on a Canadian card, you get 137 MR points.

 

Convert them to airline points and you have 100 airline points with the former, and 102.75 points with the latter.

 

Don't be distracted by "prices are not the same".  Utilize the same base currency and work the numbers.  Or do the calculations with spend of 100 CAD, which equals 73 USD.  You'd have 100 MR points and only 73 MR points.  And you still get more with a Canadian card.

 

I was on the board of an organization that worked on both sides of the border.  Worst thing we had to deal with is that both countries called the currency the "dollar", which meant there was a ton of conflating between the two.  Better if one (either for that matter) was the "gizmo" so there would be a clear differentiation between the two.

 

Or better still, convert both to and from Swiss Francs and you will again see the difference.

 

But if you think you are getting screwed, why should actual math prove otherwise.

 

 

 

Take a look:

 

https://princeoftravel.com/guides/quarterly-valuation-updates/

 

Those points are worth less in USD than in CAD (for example, Aeroplan points are worth 2.1 cent CAD but 1.6 USD). So they really worth the same. Yes, you get 137 MR points for spending 100 USD, but those 100 USD are worth 137 CAD.

[cruisingxpert]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

OTOH, you get travel credits and dining credits that don't go to USA cardholders.

 

If you think Amex is a bad deal, just cancel the card.

 

 

I did

[ak1004]

4 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

But you earned them at a 37% higher rate.

 

Let's try this again.

 

You spend the equivalent of 100 USD.  That gets you 100 MR points on a USA card.

 

If you spend that same 100 USD worth on a Canadian card, you get 137 MR points.

 

Convert them to airline points and you have 100 airline points with the former, and 102.75 points with the latter.

 

Don't be distracted by "prices are not the same".  Utilize the same base currency and work the numbers.  Or do the calculations with spend of 100 CAD, which equals 73 USD.  You'd have 100 MR points and only 73 MR points.  And you still get more with a Canadian card.

 

I was on the board of an organization that worked on both sides of the border.  Worst thing we had to deal with is that both countries called the currency the "dollar", which meant there was a ton of conflating between the two.  Better if one (either for that matter) was the "gizmo" so there would be a clear differentiation between the two.

 

Or better still, convert both to and from Swiss Francs and you will again see the difference.

 

But if you think you are getting screwed, why should actual math prove otherwise.

 

 

 

I just did the math again, and I must admit that you are right. $100 USD spent give Americans 100 MR and Canadians 137 MR.

 

But I'm still curious why the article that I linked claims that Aeroplan points are worth 2.1 cent CAD but 1.6 USD.

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

But I'm still curious why the article that I linked claims that Aeroplan points are worth 2.1 cent CAD but 1.6 USD.

 

Because most of those evaluation posts are off base.

 

Try reading these two articles for a bit of perspective:

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/when-so-called-experts-cant-even-agree-with-themselves-on-how-much-a-mile-is-worth/

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/why-the-points-guys-new-effort-to-value-miles-is-nonsense/

 

In addition to his loyalty program expertise, Gary Leff is also the CFO of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, so he has much exposure to the area of economics and markets.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

But I'm still curious why the article that I linked claims that Aeroplan points are worth 2.1 cent CAD but 1.6 USD.

 

At today's exchange rate, 1.6 USD equals 2.19 CAD.  Close.

 

 

[ak1004]

7 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Because most of those evaluation posts are off base.

 

Try reading these two articles for a bit of perspective:

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/when-so-called-experts-cant-even-agree-with-themselves-on-how-much-a-mile-is-worth/

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/why-the-points-guys-new-effort-to-value-miles-is-nonsense/

 

In addition to his loyalty program expertise, Gary Leff is also the CFO of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, so he has much exposure to the area of economics and markets.

 

 

 

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.

 

Valuations vary because there are so many factors involved (fare type, season etc). Redeeming to business class will almost always yield higher value than economy.

 

As a Canadian who is focused on Aeroplan, I actually agree with the 2 cents CAD valuation that most experts mention. I have enough points and don't need to buy them, but unlike what he mentions in the article "I’d never buy those points at 2 cents apiece", I'd actually would for business class tickets. If I pay 3,000 for 150,000 points and buy a business class ticket to Europe that sells at $5,000, I would consider it a pretty good deal. Another point he doesn't mention is that buying flights with points has more flexible change and cancellation terms.

 

So while there are some good points in those articles, there are also some that I would strongly disagree.