Villa Vie Residences

[rebeccalouiseagain]

3 minutes ago, Zeg said:

My prediction is that it will sooner or later be impounded for one reason or another.  

With the water issues- I can't see this lasting much longer either.  

[www3traveler]

10 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

Contractional yes, but will they actually pay you?  I have my serious doubts on this; not to mention, you would have to file suit in the Marshal Islands. 

Why would you have to file a lawsuit in the Marshal Islands? The ship is registered and sails with a Bahamas flag (like a number of other cruise ship companies).  Her home address is Southern Florida (like many other companies).  The current lawsuit will go NOWHERE.  The law firm hired has NO legal standing in either Florida or in the Bahamas.

Edited Saturday at 02:44 PM by www3traveler
add words for clarity

[broberts]

8 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

Why would you have to file a lawsuit in the Marshal Islands? The ship is registered and sails with a Bahamas flag (like a number of other cruise ship companies).  Her home address is Southern Florida (like many other companies).  The current lawsuit will go NOWHERE.  The law firm hired has NO legal standing in either Florida or in the Bahamas.

 

The contract may specify a particular jurisdiction in which disagreements are to be adjudicated.

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

Why would you have to file a lawsuit in the Marshal Islands? The ship is registered and sails with a Bahamas flag (like a number of other cruise ship companies).  Her home address is Southern Florida (like many other companies).  The current lawsuit will go NOWHERE.  The law firm hired has NO legal standing in either Florida or in the Bahamas.

From what I see, the company is registered in Delaware.  And, as long as it is brought in an admiralty court (all Federal courts are admiralty courts), they can bring a case against any ship of any nation, and place an "in rem" judgement against the ship, with the possibility of seizing the ship for recompense.  But, as noted above, if the contract specifies a jurisdiction for disputes, that is where it may happen.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Thank you- and there in lies the problem.  No one wants this ship.  It will become a ghost ship in some port and will require being towed to a scrapyard.  So I doubt it will be seized.  This is such a mess.

[Travel_Around_The_World]

35 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

Why would you have to file a lawsuit in the Marshal Islands? The ship is registered and sails with a Bahamas flag (like a number of other cruise ship companies).  Her home address is Southern Florida (like many other companies).  The current lawsuit will go NOWHERE.  The law firm hired has NO legal standing in either Florida or in the Bahamas.

According to VVR website legal issues have to be solved in Broward County, Florida or Delaware. Jenny's lawfirm has offices (at least what i know off) in PA and Delaware. 

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

So I doubt it will be seized.

Even if it is only worth scrap value, that value goes to the person who seizes the ship.  Current scrap value for a ship this size is $3.75 million.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Even if it is only worth scrap value, that value goes to the person who seizes the ship.  Current scrap value for a ship this size is $3.75 million.

Yes- and in the meantime if the ship is seized who pays for the port fees when the company is bankrupt?  It's a big mess and no one is going to want this albatross.  The lenders, as you say, have first dibs.  Then the ship has to be hauled away for scrap somewhere.  That's expensive.  

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

Yes- and in the meantime if the ship is seized who pays for the port fees when the company is bankrupt?  It's a big mess and no one is going to want this albatross.  The lenders, as you say, have first dibs.  Then the ship has to be hauled away for scrap somewhere.  That's expensive.  

Who pays the port fees?  You seem to have an unusual fixation with port fees, and as I've shown, a fairly inflated idea of what they are.  While in foreclosure, the ship can be taken to any dock that has the cheapest rates to be held.  Everyone would be off the ship, so no need for a cruise terminal.  As to who actually pays these fees, the administrator of the bankruptcy, or the court that granted the seizure would pay, taking these expenses out of the future liquidation/scrapping income.  Towing the ship is not that great an expense either.  And, if the mortgage on the ship is a preferred one, then yes, they get first dibs on the proceeds.  But, here is an interesting wrinkle unique to maritime liens, it is last in, first out.  This means that the last debt the owner racked up, gets first dibs among other lien holders.  This is exactly opposite of what happens on land bankruptcies, and would likely give Jenny first crack at the piggy bank, since her lawsuit is later than any debts created prior to it.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

I'm glad that Jenny sued then.  When there is a seizure of the vessel- where is it to be taken?  I didn't think it would be taken to a cruise terminal, but there would be fees to dock it anywhere.  Maybe trivial in nature to you.  I'd imagine bankruptcies take a long time to resolve, so who would be holding onto the ship in the meantime?  VVR if tapped out would just forfeit it.  I'm just thinking realistically- that no one wants this ship.  

Edited Saturday at 06:39 PM by rebeccalouiseagain

[WorldTraveler1020]

This is the way residential ships should operate. Custom ship designed as a residence for long-term travel. Ship is seen as a second (or third or fourth home) so residents treat it as such. If you can’t afford to do it right, don’t do it at all. https://www.aol.com/news/residential-cruise-ship-plans-sail-193622175.html

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

I'd imagine bankruptcies take a long time to resolve, so who would be holding onto the ship in the meantime? 

Crystal cruises bankruptcy took 4-6 months, if I remember, but there was a whole company to dismantle there.  Who holds the ship?  Every nation will have an agency, in the US it is the US Marshals Service that would seize the ship, provide security, and deal with the courts as to disposal of the ship and assets.  Whether or not VVR "tapped out" is really irrelevant, since they likely have no money anyway, the ship is the major asset remaining.  You can't get blood from a stone, VVR likely has nothing to give up.

[WorldTraveler1020]

Someone asked on the Villa Vie  FB group whether the pool is filled now that the weather is 75 degrees and sunny. Crickets.

 

Luxury at its finest. 

[rebeccalouiseagain]

And there is nothing nicer than sitting in a hot tub in cold weather.  I use them all the time on vacation.  I look forward to that aspect.  So not only don't they have the "four" originally advertised, but the two they have aren't filled, which do the math- lack of water, probably don't work or have legionaires, or all three.  Opulent!

[gkbiiii]

5 hours ago, www3traveler said:

Why would you have to file a lawsuit in the Marshal Islands? The ship is registered and sails with a Bahamas flag (like a number of other cruise ship companies).  Her home address is Southern Florida (like many other companies).  The current lawsuit will go NOWHERE.  The law firm hired has NO legal standing in either Florida or in the Bahamas.

The Villa Vie sent me the sales materials and it states that all legal matters (including forced arbitration) are held in The Republic of the Marshal Islands.

[gkbiiii]

12 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

The Villa Vie sent me the sales materials and it states that all legal matters (including forced arbitration) are held in The Republic of the Marshal Islands.

 

9.  Governing Law

 

"This agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the jurisdiction in which the VVR in Marshall Islands." 

[UKCruiseJeff]

27 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

The Villa Vie sent me the sales materials and it states that all legal matters (including forced arbitration) are held in The Republic of the Marshal Islands.

 

In response to both your posts and by others with respect to jurisdictions.

 

Such restrictions in contracts are “probably” enforceable to Americans but are not for a great many  purchasers in other geographics.  In many others eg EU, UK, Oz etc all organisations are expected to comply with and subject to the law in the countries that they operate in irrespective of any explicit contract limitations.

 

Having said that the key issue irrespective of where action is taken is that even if an action is initiated and is successful the chances of enforcing a judgment is as close to zero as it is possible to be if an organisation implodes so it is unlikely in that scenario anyone will receive justice.

 

So in the end, arbitration or court judgement is moot wherever action is pursued.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:42 PM by UKCruiseJeff

[gkbiiii]

Hope residents have saved their United frequent flyer miles; their "South Pacific Island Hopper," ain't cheap!  Did I mention, that it is an 8 hour flight, on a narrow body jet?

[gkbiiii]

5 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

Hope residents have saved their United frequent flyer miles; their "South Pacific Island Hopper," ain't cheap!  Did I mention, that it is an 8 hour flight, on a narrow body jet?

 

 

[broberts]

19 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

 

9.  Governing Law

 

"This agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the jurisdiction in which the VVR in Marshall Islands." 

 

The quote appears to be missing a few important words. 

 

This thread has suggested several jurisdiction of incorporation or registration so the definition of VVR in the contract may also be important.

Edited Saturday at 08:50 PM by broberts

[Zeg]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Even if it is only worth scrap value, that value goes to the person who seizes the ship.  Current scrap value for a ship this size is $3.75 million.

One extended breakdown at sea and it’ll be claimed by salvage specialists. Then essentially it’s value, is theirs. 

[Leither]

2 hours ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

 

2 hours ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

 

2 hours ago, rebeccalouiseagain said:

And there is nothing nicer than sitting in a hot tub in cold weather.  I use them all the time on vacation.  I look forward to that aspect.  So not only don't they have the "four" originally advertised, but the two they have aren't filled, which do the math- lack of water, probably don't work or have legionaires, or all three.  Opulent!

There would be no reason to fill the pools whilst the ship is cruising in cold weather. Looks to be 21 degrees in Lisbon so clearly it’s moving into warmer weather. As I’ve said before we sailed on the Braemar several times and it was a lovely ship, contrary to what some people here believe. Don’t know what it’s like now but photos indicate it’s not much different, even down to the same furniture. But I agree, it’s not a ship for permanent living.

Edited Saturday at 09:11 PM by Leither

[UKCruiseJeff]

Just now, Leither said:

 

 

There would be no reason to fill the pools whilst the ship is cruising in cold weather. Looks to be 21 degrees in Lisbon so clearly it’s moving into warmer weather. As I’ve said before we sailed on the Braemar several times and it was a lovely ship, contrary to what some people here believe. Don’t know what it’s like now but photos indicate it’s not much different, even down to the same furniture. But I agree, it’s not a ship for permanent living.

 

A previous staff captain and engineer on this ship has expressed some clear and presumably authoritative views and they were not positive. 

 

Jeff

[gkbiiii]

25 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

The quote appears to be missing a few important words. 

 

This thread has suggested several jurisdiction of incorporation or registration so the definition of VVR in the contract may also be important.

This is "a direct, word for word quote," from the VV "Golden Horizons" contract.  I thought the wording was strange, but legalisms are not my strong point.  

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Zeg said:

One extended breakdown at sea and it’ll be claimed by salvage specialists. Then essentially it’s value, is theirs. 

Not really.  Unless the ship was abandoned (absolutely no one onboard), at which time the first person to step on the ship owns it, most salvage is Lloyd's Open Form, and the typical award for a successful salvage (and it is "no cure, no pay") is about 23% of the value of the vessel.