Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, orville99 said:

Not your job...

But it is because RCL are downloading responsibility to customers based on emotion. We are a part if their operating model. Why dont they just include tips in the price then? That way everyone pays their fair share not some will and some wont model

[Ocean Boy]

9 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

Absolutely not. What I am being cautious about is ensuring staff are properly compensated for the great work that they do.

Seems to me that proper compensation for work done should be the employer's concern. Thanking an employee for taking good care of me with a monetary reward is my concern.

[orville99]

7 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

You are bragging about something that is totally alien to most. It doesnt change the fact that you have money to burn willy nilly. If you agree with the model because you can afford it, that is not what the debate is about. 

Never said I agreed with the model, just that there is really only one ethical way to avoid dealing with it - Don't Cruise!

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

Seems to me that proper compensation should be the employers concern. Thanking an employee for taking good care of me with a monetary reward is my concern.

This is true so make the model fully inclusive and forget about the smoke and mirrors. Some cultures do not tip so I dont feel the need to subsidize their cultural preferences. This is the primary reason that grats are increasing. 

[RoyalC]

3 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

But it is because RCL are downloading responsibility to customers based on emotion. We are a part if their operating model. Why dont they just include tips in the price then? That way everyone pays their fair share not some will and some wont model

Fair share is subjective. Some people never use the dining room (yes, some staff are in there but they do not service like they used to outside of clearing plates mostly). Some people I've known have never used room cleaning. Yet, some people are pigs (their messy rooms) and eat every meal in the dining rooms (breakfast when available, lunch and dinner). Other cruise lines offer included tips. Many choices are still available either on the cruise, or with another line. If they make tips mandatory, people will jump ship so to speak.

[Ocean Boy]

22 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

Yep and all the additional cuts/changes that go along with it. I am torn between feeling grateful to be able to cruise and the obvious deterioration of services primarily in the dining room. 

There is nothing to be torn about. Being grateful that we have the means to cruise and looking out for our interests are not mutually exclusive.

[orville99]

6 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

But it is because RCL are downloading responsibility to customers based on emotion. We are a part if their operating model. Why dont they just include tips in the price then? That way everyone pays their fair share not some will and some wont model

Not your job to dictate what is fair or equitable - you do realize that a person who cleans rooms for a living in most of the countries that cabin stewards originate have an annual income of between $3,000 and $4,000. A cabin steward on RCL can make 10X that - which is why they take the jobs.

[RoyalC]

1 minute ago, tottenhamfc said:

This is true so make the model fully inclusive and forget about the smoke and mirrors. Some cultures do not tip so I dont feel the need to subsidize their cultural preferences. This is the primary reason that grats are increasing. 

This is not the reason because people have opted out of tips since the beginning of cruising. If they think raising the tip price is going to compensate they are mistaken. You already see numerous people on social media saying they are removing tips now. I would guess they move to the old system of cash, which puts a smile on everyone's face. I've also heard from several crew that their tips are reduced if they do not receive a high average rating for the cruise. So where does the money go then? Royal is hush on this. But people can do whatever makes them feel good, then boast about it on cruise critic lol (look at me!) I mean serious, if everyone was like the tippers on CC, these workers would be rich!

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, orville99 said:

Never said I agreed with the model, just that there is really only one ethical way to avoid dealing with it - Don't Cruise!

That makes no sense because many are cruising and paying a different price than others due to grats removal. 

 

Just now, orville99 said:

Not your job to dictate what is fair or equitable - you do realize that a person who cleans rooms for a living in most of the countries that cabin stewards originate have an annual income of between $3,000 and $4,000. A cabin steward on RCL can make 10X that - which is why they take the jobs.

Yes and they are away from their families 10 months a year and work 15 hour days 7 days a week. They are not slaves they are employees and should be rewarded as such. Once again the debate is primarily about value for deteriorating service and people not paying their share for the cruise. If we all remove tips prices go up. Its just sleight of hand for marketing purposes.

[RoyalC]

3 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Not your job to dictate what is fair or equitable - you do realize that a person who cleans rooms for a living in most of the countries that cabin stewards originate have an annual income of between $3,000 and $4,000. A cabin steward on RCL can make 10X that - which is why they take the jobs.

They can actually make more than 10X with all the cabins assigned. Two months off per contract. 

[Ocean Boy]

8 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

This is true so make the model fully inclusive and forget about the smoke and mirrors. Some cultures do not tip so I dont feel the need to subsidize their cultural preferences. This is the primary reason that grats are increasing. 

The primary reason that tips are increasing is because RCI can get away with it.

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, RoyalC said:

This is not the reason because people have opted out of tips since the beginning of cruising. If they think raising the tip price is going to compensate they are mistaken. You already see numerous people on social media saying they are removing tips now. I would guess they move to the old system of cash, which puts a smile on everyone's face. I've also heard from several crew that their tips are reduced if they do not receive a high average rating for the cruise. So where does the money go then? Royal is hush on this. But people can do whatever makes them feel good, then boast about it on cruise critic lol (look at me!) I mean serious, if everyone was like the tippers on CC, these workers would be rich!

100% agree. I am being converted to grat removal based on this debate. Never thought it was so prevalent

[cured]

3 hours ago, love to cruise 2017 said:

sorry to disargee but we have two family crew members on Brillance at present and no there not for a min 63 hr work week and what there required to do...no not a living wage. 

When calculating a living wage, do you factor in housing, utilities, food, healthcare, all things that would have to be paid out of pocket on land?

 

If it is so horrible, why are your family members still working on a ship?

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

The primary reason that tips are increasing is because RCI can get away with it.

True but their is also the guilt and emotion that comes into play in the final analysis. I would much prefer a split model. 1/2 for all employees and 1/2 fir your choice of allocation

[Ocean Boy]

3 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

That makes no sense because many are cruising and paying a different price than others due to grats removal. 

 

Seriously? You can ask 20 people staying in the same cabin catagory what they paid for the cruise and you will get 20 different answers Equality died when dynamic pricing was dreamed up.

[footzz]

9 minutes ago, orville99 said:

 A cabin steward on RCL can make 10X that - which is why they take the jobs.

Interesting. And yet RCL increases gratuities in spite of that fact.

[not-enough-cruising]

22 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

But it is because RCL are downloading responsibility to customers based on emotion. We are a part if their operating model. Why dont they just include tips in the price then? That way everyone pays their fair share not some will and some wont model

I refuse to accept any of that responsibility. If you allow yourself to be manipulated, that’s on you 

[Ocean Boy]

7 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

 

Yes and they are away from their families 10 months a year and work 15 hour days 7 days a week. They are not slaves they are employees and should be rewarded as such. 

One is not rewarded for doing the job that they were hired to do, they are compensated. The inverse of that is the consequence of not doing your job is termination.

[iscruisingdunzo]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Where do your family members live? I assure you, they are being paid a living wage as determined by that home county; otherwise they would not have signed the contract to work 

Regardless, has anyone ever been on an RCI ship that is short staffed? If their wages were not fair I would presume they would be much more difficult to staff...and to retain staff after the original first contract. 

 

I would guess this gratuity hike was not to increase the salaries of the staff on ships, but to increase the salaries for the staff in FL. 

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

Seriously? You can ask 20 people staying in the same cabin catagory what they paid for the cruise and you will get 20 different answers Equality died when dynamic pricing was dreamed up.

I am not talking about how and when you transacted your cruise fare. It is specific to not paying a line item on the cruise. Essentially you are inferring that if you pay more for a cruise fare then dont pay the grats. That is not what I am trying to get across

[Ocean Boy]

7 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

True but their is also the guilt and emotion that comes into play in the final analysis. I would much prefer a split model. 1/2 for all employees and 1/2 fir your choice of allocation

Guilt and emotion is on you to control. Period.

[iscruisingdunzo]

30 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Not your job...

Exactly, just like it should not be our (the paying customer's) jobs to subsidize their salaries!

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

Guilt and emotion is on you to control. Period.

I understand that responsibility, where I struggle is with the term optional gratuites. It should not be our responsibilty to grovel at Guest Services for tip removal. The onus should be on them to promote please acknowledge exceptional service by tipping. I just want to be sure that the staff are properly compensated no matter what line item is designated.

[goldfish65]

Not a big deal to me, $2 a day adds up to the price if one drink over a few days…some people paid less than me for the same accommodations, am I angry about that? They should make the gratuity non-removable. 

[Ocean Boy]

2 minutes ago, tottenhamfc said:

I am not talking about how and when you transacted your cruise fare. It is specific to not paying a line item on the cruise. Essentially you are inferring that if you pay more for a cruise fare then dont pay the grats. That is not what I am trying to get across

I am inferring no such thing. You are the one that said bearing the burden of the cost of the cruise should be equitable. So we should all pay the same fare, tip the same, and maybe even buy the same number of drinks for that matter.