Spirit of Adventure: riding out the storm ?

[Dermotsgirl]

9 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

It's important to remember that trial by social media is not guaranteed to be impartial or even intelligible. 

I’m not seeing a trial here - just people who sail on Saga ships who want to get to the bottom of what happened, and are hoping that Saga are going to be open and honest 

[NorbertsNiece]

My experience with Saga in difficult on board weather and covid situations is that they have done their very best to communicate the current situation at that time and have always had the safety and security of their guests at the forefront of their decisions.

 

I am not a Master Mariner but my travelling companion is. He said, "Not easy to be sure of how rough it is going to be.

"Safety system kicking in" - guess the Master turned the ship to heave to .... better than running before the weather, risking a wave over the poop.

 

 

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[Dermotsgirl]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/saga-cruise-storm-passenger-first-account-spirit-discovery/

[DemureMayo]

The cabin looks like the cabin I returned to. I've got no explanation for why smaller items didn't end up on the deck, yet larger items did. Wheeled cases don't really fit in the wardrobes, so I can see why they are out.
 

The swell reached 10m and above, causing rolls of more than 20 degrees. The waves on top of the swell were reaching deck 8. Water entered deck 8 cabins.
 

Several balconies on deck 7 were smashed, many glass barriers on the promenade were smashed. Some deck 12 glass barriers were broken. On deck 7 the atrium glass was smashed by the library. This isn't superficial damage.
 

Please don't minimise what happened if you were not there.

[Vivaldi]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I still get the impression that, for whatever reason, you are keen to play this down - but I think that anybody who was on the ship will tell you, that a significant event happened, and yes, some passengers genuinely feared for their lives. 

 

It is understandable that people would want to counteract the sensationalist reporting of some of the media, with their "if it bleeds it leads" approach to the news. However it would be a pity if that leads to the opposite position and the simple view that "we take the risk travelling on the Bay at this time of year" and "too many scaremongers won't help". 

 

Dermotsgirl, I think you have hit the nail on the head saying that "anyone who was on the ship will tell you ". It seems highly significant to me that there appear to be no reports from anyone on the SofD on that journey to the effect that the storms were "not that bad" or "nothing to worry about". If anyone knows of such reports, it would help if they could quote them or include a link to them. All the reports express fear and alarm, and it would be quite wrong to attempt to play this down in any way.

 

[Windsurfboy]

Gone from one extreme to another.  Unbelievably cautious. 

 

This afternoon 20 to 25 knots only 3 metre swell (Captains midday  message) , ie perfectly normal for winter . However the promenade deck was closed for safety reasons.  20 knots is not that strong and 3 metre waves just a little wobble. Rather than letting sensible  adults decide for themselves, decided that there would be  no fresh air for anyone.

 

Luckily  deck 13 had no signs up so had a walk round  there on my own for a hour, perfectly safe for anyone without walking difficulties.

 

One cruise let's see how people stand up to 12.5 metre waves ( 12.5 was documented on vesselfinder and cruise mapper), next cruise nanny state.

[Glenndale]

Unfortunately Saga does tend to veer towards ‘nanny state’.

I cannot understand why they rushed north when they would have known the weather fronts coming into the Bay.

Far better IMHO to stay for the final call in the Canaries and then seek shelter.
Being into port a day or two late in the circumstances would not have been the end of the world.

I recommended Saga to friends, who were on this cruise, they managed to escape with minor injuries. Can’t help but feel a little responsible 😕

We’ll be on board Discovery on the 7th Dec.

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, Vivaldi said:

 

It is understandable that people would want to counteract the sensationalist reporting of some of the media, with their "if it bleeds it leads" approach to the news. However it would be a pity if that leads to the opposite position and the simple view that "we take the risk travelling on the Bay at this time of year" and "too many scaremongers won't help". 

 

Dermotsgirl, I think you have hit the nail on the head saying that "anyone who was on the ship will tell you ". It seems highly significant to me that there appear to be no reports from anyone on the SofD on that journey to the effect that the storms were "not that bad" or "nothing to worry about". If anyone knows of such reports, it would help if they could quote them or include a link to them. All the reports express fear and alarm, and it would be quite wrong to attempt to play this down in any way.

 

When I read people’s reports from cruises, normally there’s a couple of extremes, either it was fantastic or dreadful. But the reports in between, giving a balance of good and not so good, often give a good insight.

 

However, in the case of this SOD cruise, passenger’s testimonies have been uniform, so I feel confident in believing what they say - it really was an extreme experience which left everyone very shaken. 

[davecttr]

16 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Well, to be fair, it would normally be something on these lines:

 

’British pensioners hit by GIANT foreign killer waves as the BBC and RNLI stand back and refuse to help.’

And in the Daily Distress it would look like this

 

ps - read the Saga forum topic for a seasoned retired cruise ship chief engineers thoughts on the causes.

Edited November 9, 2023 by davecttr

[FatBoy20]

On a lighter note both Adventure & Discovery will meet in Lisbon tomorrow.

[Interestedcruisefan]

Hi Guys 

 

My parents and their friend are due to travel on Adventure this Monday 13th November for a 21 day Canaries and Cape Verde cruise.

 

Is there anything I should be telling them or warning them about?

 

Can sea conditions be predicted for what they may face in advance.

 

If so have things calmed down now?

 

I've seen the BBC reports etc.

[Kohima]

We are on that cruise too and really looking forward to it, having been on Saga cruises over many years. At any time of the year there can be rough weather at sea, especially in the Bay of Biscay, but it seems that there were a number of unusual and very unfortunate situations which came together to cause the recent frightening, traumatic experience. 
I would say to anyone about to embark next week that Saga will now be ultra cautious so don’t overthink potential problems. Go and enjoy everything on offer.

[Kohima]

There are a number of websites such as the Shipping Forecast or Windy which you can consult but of course conditions can change very rapidly.

[Interestedcruisefan]

Just now, Kohima said:

There are a number of websites such as the Shipping Forecast or Windy which you can consult but of course conditions can change very rapidly.

Have you looked ahead?

 

I wouldn't know what's normal and what's severe?

[Kohima]

I will look nearer the time. It is quite evident from these sites what is severe. If the cabin balcony furniture is tied down by your steward then you know rough seas are expected!

Edited November 9, 2023 by Kohima
Typo

[JMMKUK]

2 minutes ago, Kohima said:

I will look nearer the time. It is quite evident from these sites what is severe. If the cabin balcony furniture is tied down by your steward then you know rough seas are expected!

True. but on Adventure last month they stayed tied up till the end of the cruise after we were through the bad weather.

I have always found Saga captains to be very honest about the forecast. Coming back from Canada on Sapphire in Oct 2018 we were informed about all the route changes to avoid the worst of Hurricane Michael.We were still in force 9 & 10 for 3 days though.

On Silver Wind in June 2017 the captain didn't inform us of overnight bad weather and therefore a lot of people got very sick overnight. They were very unhappy with him the next day as a warning would have given them the chance to take medication.

[david05]

Spirit of Discovery is registered in the UK (as is Adventure) and as such is regulated by the appropriate UK authorities. I would think that this occurrence would probably need to be reported to the Marine Accident Investigation Branch and they will decide whether or not to investigate. If they do decide to investigate this will become public knowledge (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/marine-accident-investigation-branch-current-investigations/marine-accident-investigation-branch-current-investigations).

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Hi Guys 

 

My parents and their friend are due to travel on Adventure this Monday 13th November for a 21 day Canaries and Cape Verde cruise.

 

Is there anything I should be telling them or warning them about?

 

Can sea conditions be predicted for what they may face in advance.

 

If so have things calmed down now?

 

I've seen the BBC reports etc.

 Only predicted for a week ahead. Try weatheronline.co.uk

 

Take tablets before you hit badnweather

[Dermotsgirl]

51 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Have you looked ahead?

 

I wouldn't know what's normal and what's severe?

It’s easy to tell what is severe - it’s all the red and mauve colouring on the map!

 

After this incident, Saga are going to be ultra cautious, so I don’t think people need to worry about a similar occurrence in the near future at least.

 

For me, it’s now about getting to the bottom of what happened. As a new Saga cruiser I want to know what type of company I’m dealing with, so I’m looking for transparency……. 

[nosapphire]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Hi Guys 

 

My parents and their friend are due to travel on Adventure this Monday 13th November for a 21 day Canaries and Cape Verde cruise.

 

Is there anything I should be telling them or warning them about?

 

Can sea conditions be predicted for what they may face in advance.

 

If so have things calmed down now?

 

I've seen the BBC reports etc.

The Adventure is exactly the same as the Discovery, which is an extremely steady ship, which itself highlights the extreme situation of the recent incident.

The direction of the swell makes the most difference, and on any ship any sway is more noticeable on the higher decks.

If the weather is forecast to be uncomfortable announcements will be made in advance (expect a reminder "one hand for the ship, one hand for yourself" which means - hold on to the handrails when moving around).

Reception hold a supply of seasick tablets in case of need.

There is no real way of predicting this far in advance whether the seas will be rough or not; weather is very changeable;  we have never had any really bad weather in or around the BoB, but had some horrific conditions in both the Atlantic and the North Sea.

The reported incident is highly unusual, normally diversions will be undertaken to avoid the worst of the weather; it being so unusual is why there is so much discussion about it.

 

[Tothesunset]

7 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

 

The reported incident is highly unusual, normally diversions will be undertaken to avoid the worst of the weather; it being so unusual is why there is so much discussion about it.

 

Is it unusual? Or is it the extent of reporting that is unusual? Or unusual to us because it's gained a life of its own on this forum? 

 

On a worldwide scale, this sort of ship/nature interface isn't that rare. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Tothesunset

[Dermotsgirl]

9 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

Is it unusual? Or is it the extent of reporting that is unusual? Or unusual to us because it's gained a life of its own on this forum? 

 

On a worldwide scale, this sorts of ship/nature interface isn't that rare. 

As a cruiser of 22 years, in my experience it is highly unusual for a cruise ship to find itself in 40 ft waves and for approx 10% of the passengers to be injured so badly that they needed medical attention. If that was commonplace, people simply would not go on cruises.

 

i think the type of interface you are talking about is ALL shipping - not cruise ships, and definitely not cruise ships where the passengers are predominately elderly 

[Glad Bailey]

May I add two pennyworth as someone who was on this cruise

 

Simply put the question that I and I believe others on the cruise want

answered is 

Why did we enter the Bay of Biscay (and the only cruise ship to do so)

when such a violent storm was known about.

Could we have held back or even turned around to avoid the storm even

if it meant being late back to Portsmouth.

 

I am happy to accept that the Captain and Officers did everything possible

to mitigate against the effects of the storm once we were in it,but

could we have avoided being there.

 

So far Saga has simply said that they are sorry but they can’t control

the weather

 

 

 

 

[Mollag]

4 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Hi Guys 

 

My parents and their friend are due to travel on Adventure this Monday 13th November for a 21 day Canaries and Cape Verde cruise.

 

Is there anything I should be telling them or warning them about?

 

Can sea conditions be predicted for what they may face in advance.

 

If so have things calmed down now?

 

I've seen the BBC reports etc.

We’re joining on Monday as well, having looked at the latest forecast models quite a few have a nasty depression forming to the SouthWest and depending on its track conditions will not be too good going around Ushant on Tuesday having said that models have been wrong before and I’m sure they’ll avoid any severe weather maybe lying in Falmouth again if needed. Your parents have nothing to worry about they’re fine sea boats tell them to enjoy themselves. 
Oh and I’m not a master mariner or armchair expert only 40 years a fisherman as well as lifeboat coxswain I hope that’s good enough to express my views