Tipping....yes, again

[Joanne G.]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

If it makes you feel better, think of it as a commission.

That would make sense if the waiter or waitress or bartender were selling you the meal or the bottle of wine. But in most restaurants, they are merely bringing it to you.  I really hesitated to get involved in this discussion, but since @kirtihk brought up a point I have thought about, I'll add that at a land-based restaurant, I tend to tip a slightly smaller % for an expensive meal and a slightly bigger % for a cheaper meal.   Their efforts are the same whether there's a lobster on the plate or a grilled cheese sandwich, or whether I order a glass of expensive wine or a free glass of water.   

 

As for a cruise, when I am solo in a cabin, I add extra cash to the auto-gratuity.   I figure the room attendant has almost the same amount of work as he or she would if there were two people in the cabin but would receive half the usual auto-gratuity - a bathroom to clean, a floor to vacuum, a wastebasket to empty, a bed to make, towels to swap out, etc.   

 

Clearly, others will feel differently on both these issues.    😃

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, Joanne G. said:

That would make sense if the waiter or waitress or bartender were selling you the meal or the bottle of wine. But in most restaurants, they are merely bringing it to you.     😃

Most restaurants are independently owned and many are family operated. Have you ever asked for recommendations? If something is wrong with the food or wine, who is typically making it right? But if you insist on tipping the owner, go for it. Unless the owner is serving me, I will tip and not belittle the waitstaff.

[coops]

20 hours ago, cruiserbrianj said:

Possibly an unpopular opinion on here, but I/my family tip as we would on land and that's for those are are directly serving us. We do remove the auto gratuities and then tip accordingly. Room stewards get more. Sometimes the bar service folks get more (than the auto 18%). When we dine in the MDR, steakhouse or other specialty restaurants, they get more. If others behind the scenes don't get something, I'd argue that their salary should be more and it's not up to me to supplement that. I tip as I do in the US and that's for those that are directly servicing us. If they (cruise lines) decide to include it in the price, then fine, but until then...I'll tip as I normally do.

No the room stewards do not get more. Since you remove the tips then they are required to share the tips just like the bar service and everyone else. It is all pooled. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by coops

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, cruizinisthebest said:

 I would rather give one person $10 than 5, $2 each. I'm tipping how I choose and doing so directly. That's the way I prefer it. In an effort to tip what I saw was a more deserving amount, I would always supplement the auto gratuity. No more of that. At least not for us. 

Actually, those people aren't getting your tips.  Without the auto tips in place, cash tips are turned.

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, Joanne G. said:

That would make sense if the waiter or waitress or bartender were selling you the meal or the bottle of wine. But in most restaurants, they are merely bringing it to you.  I really hesitated to get involved in this discussion, but since @kirtihk brought up a point I have thought about, I'll add that at a land-based restaurant, I tend to tip a slightly smaller % for an expensive meal and a slightly bigger % for a cheaper meal.   Their efforts are the same whether there's a lobster on the plate or a grilled cheese sandwich, or whether I order a glass of expensive wine or a free glass of water.   

 

As for a cruise, when I am solo in a cabin, I add extra cash to the auto-gratuity.   I figure the room attendant has almost the same amount of work as he or she would if there were two people in the cabin but would receive half the usual auto-gratuity - a bathroom to clean, a floor to vacuum, a wastebasket to empty, a bed to make, towels to swap out, etc.   

 

Clearly, others will feel differently on both these issues.    😃

The efforts aren't the same.  

[crazyank]

10 hours ago, cruizinisthebest said:

 I would rather give one person $10 than 5, $2 each. I'm tipping how I choose and doing so directly. That's the way I prefer it. In an effort to tip what I saw was a more deserving amount, I would always supplement the auto gratuity. No more of that. At least not for us. 

Totally agree with this.  We do the same

[aborgman]

9 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

The efforts aren't the same.  

 

You're right.

 

As someone whose mother worked as a bartender and server for numerous restaurants and events ranging up to million dollar wedding - often the effort is much less at the higher end.

 

Generally the skill/knowledge level required is higher - but the actual effort level is noticeably lower.

 

[sanger727]

14 hours ago, Joanne G. said:

That would make sense if the waiter or waitress or bartender were selling you the meal or the bottle of wine. But in most restaurants, they are merely bringing it to you.  I really hesitated to get involved in this discussion, but since @kirtihk brought up a point I have thought about, I'll add that at a land-based restaurant, I tend to tip a slightly smaller % for an expensive meal and a slightly bigger % for a cheaper meal.   Their efforts are the same whether there's a lobster on the plate or a grilled cheese sandwich, or whether I order a glass of expensive wine or a free glass of water.   

 

 

If you wait staff is simply "bringing" you an $80 dish, you aren't going to the right restaurants. In restaurants I've been to, a restaurant that serves $20 dishes and $80 dishes are night and day. For one thing, the more expensive restaurants have fewer tables per server so that they and provide better service. They also hire more experienced and skilled wait staff. The $20 restaurant is entry level. The $80 restaurant is not.

[aborgman]

11 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

 For one thing, the more expensive restaurants have fewer tables per server so that they and provide better service.

 

Right... which means less effort by the wait staff, not more.

 

Expensive restaurants have more skilled/knowledgeable wait staff. Inexpensive restaurants work the wait staff much harder.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

7 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Right... which means less effort by the wait staff, not more.

 

Expensive restaurants have more skilled/knowledgeable wait staff. Inexpensive restaurants work the wait staff much harder.

This happens in many professions. Those with experience get higher paying jobs that require different skills, knowledge and a different type of effort - doesn’t mean they work harder. 

[sanger727]

12 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Right... which means less effort by the wait staff, not more.

 

Expensive restaurants have more skilled/knowledgeable wait staff. Inexpensive restaurants work the wait staff much harder.

 

The goal of an employer isn't to work their employees harder. The goal is to provide a better service to the customer. At an expensive restaurant, you should receive better service. Also since they have fewer tables that is a smaller number of tips so to balance it out, the tips should be higher. 

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

This happens in many professions. Those with experience get higher paying jobs that require different skills, knowledge and a different type of effort - doesn’t mean they work harder. 

 

Absolutely - I was just noting that the folks equating effort with higher tips at expensive restaurants are largely incorrect.

 

 

[aborgman]

1 minute ago, sanger727 said:

 

The goal of an employer isn't to work their employees harder. The goal is to provide a better service to the customer. At an expensive restaurant, you should receive better service. Also since they have fewer tables that is a smaller number of tips so to balance it out, the tips should be higher. 

 

No, the goal of an employer is to make as much profit as possible in any legal way.

 

If providing better service does that, they will do that. If providing worse service with lower labor costs does that, they'll do that.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

Absolutely - I was just noting that the folks equating effort with higher tips at expensive restaurants are largely incorrect.

 

 

Depends on definition of effort. Different jobs require different effort - physical, mental, etc.  I would say it is more difficult and thus are compensated for it. 

[aborgman]

3 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

Depends on definition of effort. Different jobs require different effort - physical, mental, etc.  I would say it is more difficult and thus are compensated for it. 

 

Yeah, I'm comfortable saying the average ditch digger puts out more effort than the average office worker with a degree... and I say that as as an office worker with a professional degree.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

6 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Yeah, I'm comfortable saying the average ditch digger puts out more effort than the average office worker with a degree... and I say that as as an office worker with a professional degree.

Again, different kinds of effort.  Your example is more physical effort.

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

Again, different kinds of effort.  Your example is more physical effort.

 

I mean the sum total of all kinds of effort, mental and physical.

 

The average office worker actually works about 30 minutes of every hour. The average assembly line worker works about 53 minutes of every hour.

[sanger727]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

No, the goal of an employer is to make as much profit as possible in any legal way.

 

If providing better service does that, they will do that. If providing worse service with lower labor costs does that, they'll do that.

 

Not necessarily. Small businesses rely on repeat business and referrals. They may focus more on a positive customer experience even if that is somewhat less profitable. 

[aborgman]

50 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Not necessarily. Small businesses rely on repeat business and referrals. They may focus more on a positive customer experience even if that is somewhat less profitable. 

 

Small businesses rely on repeat business and referrals. They may focus more on a positive customer experience because it is more profitable. 

 

No business is intentionally choosing something that in sum total is less profitable.

 

They may take less profit per transaction to generate more transactions - but they do that because they believe over the long term it is more profitable.

 

[BlerkOne]

10 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

No, the goal of an employer is to make as much profit as possible in any legal way.

 

 

Unless a non-profit or not for profit business. 1.5 million or more.

[VentureMan_2000]

There seems to be an awful lot of angst for some people regarding tipping.  Seems those are the people that reduce or eliminate their tips on board... and sometimes through what appears to be a wall of mirrors that they think masks this.

[crazyank]

14 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

There seems to be an awful lot of angst for some people regarding tipping.  Seems those are the people that reduce or eliminate their tips on board... and sometimes through what appears to be a wall of mirrors that they think masks this.

ROFL,  no angst, smoke, or mirrors here. We eliminate the auto-grats and will continue to do so.

[illinoisfive]

On 12/3/2023 at 4:19 PM, BlerkOne said:

 

Some do, some don't. 18% gratuity is added to Chef's Table, for example.

Does Rudi's charge include the tip?

[skridge]

On 12/2/2023 at 8:55 PM, Rdclfamily said:

I can't wrap my head around tipping (how much) for this cruise.  It's time to make decisions and this particular cruise is nothing like any other cruise.  There are four of us.  Two adults and two teens.   We have mostly dined in a restaurant like Bonsai sushi where we paid for our meal and tipped accordingly.  We have paid tips on countless drinks.  We paid gratuity on things like fresh juice.  We have only eaten in the main dining room for breakfast and even then, it was just the two of us most of the time.  The teens are in the buffet.  I am just trying to wrap my head around paying $112 x four people plus all of the other gratuities.  They also only service the room once a day compared to two.  This is the first time where I just don't seem to be able to wrap my head around it. I'm easily swayed back to tipping, but wondering what protocol is now that so much dining is not in the main dining room.

The tips are dispersed to all people involved in the tipping pool.  If you remove the tips you are shafting the hard working people on the cruise ship.  It really is a very small amount in the grand scheme of things and is vital to the people who cater to your every need while on the ship.  It is absolutely sickening the amount of people that remove the automatic gratuity.  The line seems to wrap around the entire lobby when the gratuities hit the folio.

[crazyank]

5 hours ago, skridge said:

If you remove the tips you are shafting the hard working people on the cruise ship. 

Nope,

 

5 hours ago, skridge said:

It really is a very small amount in the grand scheme of things

Not to those of us who cruise with several family members it isn't.

 

5 hours ago, skridge said:

It is absolutely sickening the amount of people that remove the automatic gratuity. 

Sickening to you maybe.  Certainly not to the rest of us who have decided we've had enough of paying more for less service.   Tipping in the USA is severely out of control.