Frustration with P&O re Vaccine Exemption Certificate

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

I am starting to get an uneasy feeling that unqualified/inexperienced people within Carnival are making medical decisions and it would not surprise me if they have an AI bot that they tap into when faced with a question.

I have thought that for quite a while, and it was highlighted during covid when the requirements from P&O were changing daily regardless of official government requirements. The same issue occurs with visa's, P&O make demands that are different from the requirements of the countries you visit. I find it difficult to believe that a global company like Carnival that cruise across the globe do not have their own experts or access to a company that provides the required up to date information.

[gsmt47471015]

Couldn't agree more,  with regards to visas they just bat you away to some third party visa site, and obviously after this Januarys fiasco they have realized their error in communication ,and as such  we have received written notification that our 2025 Aurora 65 night cruise WILL require the YF vaccination/exemption letter .,suspect this is due to visiting the Caribbean following on from Brazil

One interesting snippet we picked up while pulling our hair out in January was that just because you are over sixty does not make you automatically exempt, the whole thing is a minefield☹️

[Snow Hill]

4 hours ago, david63 said:

I am starting to get an uneasy feeling that unqualified/inexperienced people within Carnival are making medical decisions and it would not surprise me if they have an AI bot that they tap into when faced with a question.

I suspect you maybe right, they are probably working to a script on the screen and medical decisions are made by the system and agents can’t override, so it’s a case of “Computer says No”

Edited December 14, 2023 by Snow Hill

[yorkshirephil]

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

I suspect you maybe right, they are probably working to a script on the screen and medical decisions are made by the system and agents can’t override, so it’s a case of “Computer says No”

I have just experienced similar with Nationwide insurance, I have the flex account and wanted to inform them about my new hip and extend the cover from 31 days to 43. When I was going through Mrs YP medication which is Thyroxine as she had a benign tumour removed many years ago. The guy on the phone asked what condition she has so he could tick a box, she doesn't have a condition she just has a 1/3 of her thyroid left that is why she takes thyroxine which occurred over 20 years ago. Eventually after going around in circles I asked him to check or put a supervisor on which he did and we got sorted.

[terrierjohn]

6 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

I have just experienced similar with Nationwide insurance, I have the flex account and wanted to inform them about my new hip and extend the cover from 31 days to 43. When I was going through Mrs YP medication which is Thyroxine as she had a benign tumour removed many years ago. The guy on the phone asked what condition she has so he could tick a box, she doesn't have a condition she just has a 1/3 of her thyroid left that is why she takes thyroxine which occurred over 20 years ago. Eventually after going around in circles I asked him to check or put a supervisor on which he did and we got sorted.

At least you were speaking to a human, even if he was a bit dim.

[FangedRose]

6 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

I have just experienced similar with Nationwide insurance, I have the flex account and wanted to inform them about my new hip and extend the cover from 31 days to 43. When I was going through Mrs YP medication which is Thyroxine as she had a benign tumour removed many years ago. The guy on the phone asked what condition she has so he could tick a box, she doesn't have a condition she just has a 1/3 of her thyroid left that is why she takes thyroxine which occurred over 20 years ago. Eventually after going around in circles I asked him to check or put a supervisor on which he did and we got sorted.

The name of the condition is Hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). Which is simply an underactive thyroid. It can happen for no particular reason, or can be medically induced as in your wife's case.

 

It always comes up in travel insurace forms, it asks for name of medication and the condition for which it has been prescribed. Hypothyroidism always comes up in the drop down list.

[yorkshirephil]

9 hours ago, FangedRose said:

The name of the condition is Hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). Which is simply an underactive thyroid. It can happen for no particular reason, or can be medically induced as in your wife's case.

 

It always comes up in travel insurace forms, it asks for name of medication and the condition for which it has been prescribed. Hypothyroidism always comes up in the drop down list.

The problem was she didn't have Hypothyrodism, she had a benign lump which resulted in part of her thyroid being removed,  the guy I spoke to reeled off the list of condition drop boxes and I wasn't willing to say "yes" to one of them to give them an opportunity to use it against me at a later date if there was a problem.

[FangedRose]

2 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

The problem was she didn't have Hypothyrodism, she had a benign lump which resulted in part of her thyroid being removed,  the guy I spoke to reeled off the list of condition drop boxes and I wasn't willing to say "yes" to one of them to give them an opportunity to use it against me at a later date if there was a problem.

If her thyroid gland is not producing enough thyroxine, she has hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism literally means "low thyroid". The means by which this occured is not relevant.

 

They ask the condition because many drugs can be used to treat a number of conditions.

[yorkshirephil]

24 minutes ago, FangedRose said:

If her thyroid gland is not producing enough thyroxine, she has hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism literally means "low thyroid". The means by which this occured is not relevant.

 

They ask the condition because many drugs can be used to treat a number of conditions.

That may be the case, but in their wisdom the insure have listed the condition as benign tumor. 

[Selbourne]

Update - We now have the exemption letter from the GP and are £30 poorer as a result. As I’ve said previously, I’m sure that this letter is completely unnecessary as my wife already has the official yellow fever exemption certificate, but given the misleading (and, I believe, incorrect) info that we were given by P&O when questioning this, we cannot afford to risk it. 
 

My intention is to just show the official exemption certificate at check-in and then see if they accept it (as they should). If there’s a problem then we can produce the GP letter as well. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Selbourne

[zap99]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:55 PM, terrierjohn said:

At least you were speaking to a human, even if he was a bit dim.

They have a flowchart. Yes ,or no. In the financial crisis a few years ago my bank call centre phoned. This evening we would like to talk to you about a personal loan...........OK, how much do you need...erm..erm. no we would like to lend you some money. We're OK thanks, but nice of you to call.

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Update - We now have the exemption letter from the GP and are £30 poorer as a result. As I’ve said previously, I’m sure that this letter is completely unnecessary as my wife already has the official yellow fever exemption certificate, but given the misleading (and, I believe, incorrect) info that we were given by P&O when questioning this, we cannot afford to risk it. 
 

My intention is to just show the official exemption certificate at check-in and then see if they accept it (as they should). If there’s a problem then we can produce the GP letter as well. 

If they accept the exemption certificate without question, I would invoice P&O for the £30. 

[Selbourne]

59 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

If they accept the exemption certificate without question, I would invoice P&O for the £30. 

I think that I might, as a point of principle. They do need to get their act together with things as important as this, especially as I believe that 40+ people were denied boarding at Southampton last year and had to fly out to join the cruise - an situation which is simply not viable for us.
 

It’s both annoying and odd that other forum participants can point to information buried within the P&O website that says that what we had was acceptable, yet when asked the question directly P&O say that it isn’t. Sadly, it further confirms my long held belief that whilst P&Os ship based crew are, in the main, excellent, their shoreside staff aren’t even remotely up to the same standard. Very pleasant, but often clueless. 

[white_bear]

When we were on Adonia some years ago, a couple didn't have up-to-date YF documentation and would have been denied entry into one of the Caribbean ports after the Amazon section of the cruise.  They had to leave the ship before we left the Caribbean, missed all the Amazon bit and had to fund a 2 week stay before being permitted to rejoin.  Not P&O but port authorities.

Similarly , on the visa front, when on Aurora doing the "postal route" world cruise, several passengers had got the wrong visa (the cheap e-visa only valid for air travel) for India and had to leave the ship at Dubai and fly to India.  P&O did a lot to support them, including getting the authorities to allow them to rejoin the cruise in Mumbai.

The lesson from all of this is that if you think the bureaucracy here is bad, it is a lot worse in many other places.

 

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, white_bear said:

When we were on Adonia some years ago, a couple didn't have up-to-date YF documentation and would have been denied entry into one of the Caribbean ports after the Amazon section of the cruise.  They had to leave the ship before we left the Caribbean, missed all the Amazon bit and had to fund a 2 week stay before being permitted to rejoin.  Not P&O but port authorities.

Similarly , on the visa front, when on Aurora doing the "postal route" world cruise, several passengers had got the wrong visa (the cheap e-visa only valid for air travel) for India and had to leave the ship at Dubai and fly to India.  P&O did a lot to support them, including getting the authorities to allow them to rejoin the cruise in Mumbai.

The lesson from all of this is that if you think the bureaucracy here is bad, it is a lot worse in many other places.

 

Interesting. The issue I am flagging isn’t about bureaucracy though. It’s about P&O giving out inaccurate information. Their website clearly states that a Yellow Fever exemption can include a stamped exemption page in the vaccination booklet (which is correct). However, not a single one of the countless email communications that they have sent out regarding the need for a Yellow Fever jab has mentioned this. Every single one of them, without fail, has stated that the exemption must be by way of a GP letter. When I asked my TA to clarify this with them, they insisted that an exemption could only be a GP letter. We have therefore had to pay for one when it is totally unnecessary.
 

Also, as somebody else pointed out, the irony is that if a country decides to check all of our Yellow Fever statuses before allowing disembarkation, they are far more likely to accept the worldwide recognised exemption in the vaccination booklet than a GP letter, which isn’t as official. 

[Fionboard]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:25 AM, Selbourne said:

Interesting. The issue I am flagging isn’t about bureaucracy though. It’s about P&O giving out inaccurate information. Their website clearly states that a Yellow Fever exemption can include a stamped exemption page in the vaccination booklet (which is correct). However, not a single one of the countless email communications that they have sent out regarding the need for a Yellow Fever jab has mentioned this. Every single one of them, without fail, has stated that the exemption must be by way of a GP letter. When I asked my TA to clarify this with them, they insisted that an exemption could only be a GP letter. We have therefore had to pay for one when it is totally unnecessary.
 

Also, as somebody else pointed out, the irony is that if a country decides to check all of our Yellow Fever statuses before allowing disembarkation, they are far more likely to accept the worldwide recognised exemption in the vaccination booklet than a GP letter, which isn’t as official. 

I had a YF exemption in the yellow book (for Panama). Was told at checkin that this was perfectly acceptable. Rules seem to differ all the time. 

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Fionboard said:

I had a YF exemption in the yellow book (for Panama). Was told at checkin that this was perfectly acceptable. Rules seem to differ all the time. 

I intend to only show our yellow books at embarkation in Southampton (mine shows I’ve been jabbed, my wife’s is an exemption). If they insist on a GP letter as well, we can produce it, but I wonder how many won’t have one. Equally, I wonder if any ports might question the validity of a GP letter if people haven’t got the proper yellow fever exemption page completed in the booklet. Why they have turned something simple into a confusing mess is beyond me.

[david63]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Why they have turned something simple into a confusing mess is beyond me.

Inexperienced staff.

Lack of training.

Left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

The script says so.

Make it up as you go along.

 

Take your pick of any of the above!

[gsmt47471015]

2 hours ago, david63 said:

Inexperienced staff.

Lack of training.

Left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

The script says so.

Make it up as you go along.

 

Take your pick of any of the above!

Or all of the above 🤣

[cublet]

Hello,

 

I think what is happening is something more broadly that I experienced, and named, when I worked for a couple of US companies years ago. It's called, by me, The Not Invented Here Syndrome.

 

If this booklet had been issued by the CDC or CLIA for example, then it would have been fine. But, horror of horrors, it was published by FOREIGNERS and so cannot be trusted or taken seriously.

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

[Selbourne]

28 minutes ago, cublet said:

Hello,

 

I think what is happening is something more broadly that I experienced, and named, when I worked for a couple of US companies years ago. It's called, by me, The Not Invented Here Syndrome.

 

If this booklet had been issued by the CDC or CLIA for example, then it would have been fine. But, horror of horrors, it was published by FOREIGNERS and so cannot be trusted or taken seriously.

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

Yet it’s an internationally recognised Yellow Fever exemption certificate, which a GP letter isn’t 🤔 

[bbtablet]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:57 AM, Selbourne said:

Just make sure you don't have a walking stick or your spouse has a different boarding time because he/she is in a different tier.
 

 

[Scriv]

On 12/24/2023 at 12:21 PM, Selbourne said:

I intend to only show our yellow books at embarkation in Southampton (mine shows I’ve been jabbed, my wife’s is an exemption). If they insist on a GP letter as well, we can produce it, but I wonder how many won’t have one. Equally, I wonder if any ports might question the validity of a GP letter if people haven’t got the proper yellow fever exemption page completed in the booklet. Why they have turned something simple into a confusing mess is beyond me.

Let us know how you get on, Selbourne. Agree this is so frustrating. I had a Yellow Fever Exemption Certificate for a Marella Cruise a few years ago - I had to pay £12 at the time I think from our GP's Travel Clinic. A little yellow booklet I seem to remember - and it was accepted by all. Bizarre that P&O won't accept it. 

[Selbourne]

3 hours ago, Scriv said:

Let us know how you get on, Selbourne. Agree this is so frustrating. I had a Yellow Fever Exemption Certificate for a Marella Cruise a few years ago - I had to pay £12 at the time I think from our GP's Travel Clinic. A little yellow booklet I seem to remember - and it was accepted by all. Bizarre that P&O won't accept it. 

Will do. As I say, I think they will accept it as the small print in their website says it’s OK (which we only know because another forum member found it). My beef is that not a single one of the many communications that we have had about this issue mentions it, with every single one stating that a GP letter is required and no other option given. Obviously this means that we can’t risk not having one, even though it should be unnecessary. 

[cublet]

Hello,

 

If it was me, I'd keep the Dr.'s letter in reserve, but my first line of argument would be to present a print of the small print found on their website.

 

That having been done, I forecast much confusion and discussion between members of the check-in team and the probable statement that 'that information is out of date but the website hasn't been updated'.

 

But you don't need me to tell you that these check-in agents work, probably, for Intercruises (not P&O) and so have checked-in passengers for numerous lines whose requirements are more rational so may not bat a eye-lid.

 

Regards,

 

Cublet