OCEANIA HELL: A reason to use another cruise line.

[TRLD]

20 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

To the recent posts:

It is indeed an issue of a company being bad. 
We have the original invoice from the Portuguese Air Force. There is a customer number and an invoice number but no incident number. We have contacted and made an appointment at the Portuguese embassy and 20 minutes before our appointment, they cancelled the appointment telling us that they do not handle these types of cases. 
NCL has claimed that they did pay but has not provided any details, proof or documentation. As Kaiser is aware of this, they will not pay the Portuguese Air Force directly until NCL provides an unpaid invoice or they will reimburse NCL if the cruise line company can provide a proof of payment. NCL has told us they will this documentation but it has been almost 3 months and we are still waiting, with the deadline fast approaching. 
To say that if we had no primary health coverage and instead used our travelers insurance would only mean the travelers insurance would be waiting for the same documentation from NCL and we would still be in the same predicament. Surprisingly to us, our health insurance (Kaiser) finally took financial responsibility but it’s NCL which has been a total disappointment. 
 So it is very much an issue of a company being bad. Unless you believe it is good to misdirect, mislead, stall and not fulfill obligations and promises which characterizes our almost year long struggle with NCL to get this resolved. 

So if you have an invoice from the portuegese  air force, then you should have some contact information, even if it just the address for sending payment. Have you sent a letter to that address inquiring if the bill has been paid?

 

The point I am making is that in these situations the cruise line usually pays the bill, the travel insurance company pays the cruise line invoice. Easy.

 

In your case you have a complication in what your health insurance company is requiring. 

 

If you have a secondary policy you might contact them and ask them, without prompting them in a specific direction. what they would have required and would have handled it if they had been primary.

 

You are caught between normal company practices. The reason why I say that is because something similar happened to some friends of ours on a different cruise line where they got evacuated by a commercial company in the south pacific.. They got invoiced by the cruise line as well as the company. They sent both invoices to their travel insurance company. The travel insurance company paid the cruise line. Easy, end of story. Kaiser is requiring you to obtain proof from the insurance company, that the cruise lines normally do not  send and normally do not need to provide for the claim to be processed. Basically Kaiser  a primarily health company  is requiring more documentation than a standard travel insurance company would require.

 

 

Edited January 14 by TRLD

[Bongomauka]

7 hours ago, Vallesan said:

Ahh! I see. I hadn’t realised you actually had had an invoice from PAF. Can’t or won’t your insurers pay that invoice? Where do NCLH come in ?

Our primary insurance, which is our healthcare provider, has a third party company who handles these types of claims and has indicated that they will pay. The problem is that the cruise line, Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings, has claimed that they already paid. My primary insurance will reimburse them but need documentation of payment. Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings has not provided this necessary documentation after almost 3 months of misdirection, misinformation, and stalling. As all of our insurance policies that would cover this expense expire after one year after the incident, we have little time left to resolve this claim. If the deadline is past, we will then have to reimburse Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings ourselves, in spite of having primary, secondary, and even tertiary insurance coverage. The villain here is Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings. I don’t know of anyone who cruises or has plans to cruise with them who would not have second thoughts about stepping aboard their ships after learning of our nightmarish experience. 

[TRLD]

9 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

As stated before, we made an appointment with the Portuguese embassy and 20 minutes before our appointment they canceled it, informing us that they do not handle these typified issues. 

Have you tried going through the US embassy in Portugal to find out the contact information for the Portuegese Air Force Emergency services billing. You might also contact the Air Force emergency management  dispatch center

[Bongomauka]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

Have you tried going through the US embassy in Portugal to find out the contact information for the Portuegese Air Force Emergency services billing. You might also contact the Air Force emergency management  dispatch center

Yes. We have contacted both the Portuguese consulate here as well as the US Embassy in Lisbon. Both have said they do not handle these types of issues/cases. 

[rhiannon84]

Hi Bongomauka, did your cruise start or end in the EU? If so, you are covered by EU passenger and consumer rights (https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-rights/travel-and-passenger-rights/maritime-travel), and should be entitled to support from the EU consumer advice network, regardless of where the cruise company is based.

 

I suggest contacting the Portuguese national contact centre, who should be able to progress things with the Portuguese Air Force about who exactly they invoiced for what, and if it has been paid already. https://www.eccnet.eu/contact-your-local-ecc

 

Good luck, it sounds very stressful!

[Bongomauka]

2 hours ago, rhiannon84 said:

Hi Bongomauka, did your cruise start or end in the EU? If so, you are covered by EU passenger and consumer rights (https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-rights/travel-and-passenger-rights/maritime-travel), and should be entitled to support from the EU consumer advice network, regardless of where the cruise company is based.

 

I suggest contacting the Portuguese national contact centre, who should be able to progress things with the Portuguese Air Force about who exactly they invoiced for what, and if it has been paid already. https://www.eccnet.eu/contact-your-local-ecc

 

Good luck, it sounds very stressful!

Thank you Rhiannon84 for your post. Our departure was from Miami, Florida, USA. Thank you for the advice, I will definitely pursue your website referral. And yes. Very Stressful. Thanks again. 

[kirtihk]

On 1/12/2024 at 11:06 PM, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your response and we appreciate your sympathy. I will attempt to answer your questions:

My partner was medivaced off the Marina in April by Portuguese Air Force helicopter to Ponta Delgada in the Portugese Azores to a hospital there.

We received a copy of the invoice from NCL for which we are ultimately responsible financially

We were told by the third party insurance processors for NCL (The Claims Center) and the third party insurance processor for Kaiser (our primary health insurance carrier) (Relation Insurance Company) that we were not to pay until they because in the event that we did, NCL would not provide documentation that we did pay.

You are correct. NCL was billed directly and they have not produced any documentation that the bill was paid to the Portuguese Air Force, which is exactly what our health insurance (Kaiser's third party processor) has requested. We have not been directly billed but the fear is the billing will come after our one year window in which to file a claim for both our primary health insurance AND our trip insurance company AND our credit card company (which also has insurance for such situations).

Totally agree that if NCL was billed, and if NCL paid, they must provide copies of both the bill and the proof of payment. The issue is by the time they send us a bill for reimbursement, we will have passed our one year window to make a claim to our various insurance carriers and therefore will not be reimbursed.

We have indeed talked to all parties and our primary health care provider's third party representative has told us that all we need is NCL to document payment or declare that it was not paid. NCL has not been forthcoming on documentation on either of these.

We have in our possession a bill from Portuguese Air Force identifying us as the recipients of the service and ultimately responsible for the bill.

We have contacted all the insurance companies involved as referenced in the original post and finally have come to the point that NCL can resolve this issue. They have been consistently misleading and not forthcoming regarding how they have handled this process. They have demonstrated a total lack of cooperation and initiative and our previously positive experience with Oceania has been poisoned.

 

Time-wise, this whole event doesn’t make sense, because if an insured person did not pay for an emergency service yet, an insurance company cannot compensate for what is not paid (because potentially it might never be paid).  So, it appears, you stuck in limbo.

Edited January 14 by kirtihk

[kirtihk]

4 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

Our primary insurance, which is our healthcare provider, has a third party company who handles these types of claims and has indicated that they will pay. The problem is that the cruise line, Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings, has claimed that they already paid. My primary insurance will reimburse them but need documentation of payment. Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings has not provided this necessary documentation after almost 3 months of misdirection, misinformation, and stalling. As all of our insurance policies that would cover this expense expire after one year after the incident, we have little time left to resolve this claim. If the deadline is past, we will then have to reimburse Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings ourselves, in spite of having primary, secondary, and even tertiary insurance coverage. The villain here is Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings. I don’t know of anyone who cruises or has plans to cruise with them who would not have second thoughts about stepping aboard their ships after learning of our nightmarish experience. 

If they refuse to supply a payment documentation, why would you have to reimburse them to begin with.  To me, they need to reimburse you for all your time spent to expedite this matter.

[Bongomauka]

2 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

Time-wise, this whole event doesn’t make sense, because if an insured person did not pay for an emergency service yet, an insurance company cannot compensate for what is not paid (because potentially it might never be paid).  So, it appears, you stuck in limbo.

Yes we are stuck in limbo, at the mercy of an indifferent, callous, and disingenuous company more concerned about collecting money than assisting clients. I hope this is fair warning to those who choose Oceania Cruise lines as they seem to be more than anxious to set passengers adrift after they’ve made their money. 

[Bongomauka]

1 hour ago, Bongomauka said:

Yes we are stuck in limbo, at the mercy of an indifferent, callous, and disingenuous company more concerned about collecting money than assisting clients. I hope this is fair warning to those who choose Oceania Cruise lines as they seem to be more than anxious to set passengers adrift after they’ve made their money. 

 

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

If they refuse to supply a payment documentation, why would you have to reimburse them to begin with.  To me, they need to reimburse you for all your time spent to expedite this matter.

We are still responsible for the bill from the Portuguese Air Force as we received the invoice from NCL Holdings. With 3 layers of medical and travel insurance policies that we paid for before the trip, we still are at the mercy of the cruise line to follow through and supply the documents proving they paid the Portuguese Air Force. The deadline to file is quickly approaching before Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings sends us the requested documents. After going through a medical emergency, one would think that a company that depends on its customers to return for more cruises would not put the same customers through another, this time almost yearlong, nightmare. 

[TRLD]

47 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

 

We are still responsible for the bill from the Portuguese Air Force as we received the invoice from NCL Holdings. With 3 layers of medical and travel insurance policies that we paid for before the trip, we still are at the mercy of the cruise line to follow through and supply the documents proving they paid the Portuguese Air Force. The deadline to file is quickly approaching before Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings sends us the requested documents. After going through a medical emergency, one would think that a company that depends on its customers to return for more cruises would not put the same customers through another, this time almost yearlong, nightmare. 

But the question is the problem company the cruise line that paid the bill then sent you an invoice or is it your Medicare advantage company that will not accept the invoice from you  but is instead requiring another level of documentation that travel insurance companies do not normally require?

 

 

You never did answer the question if the bill you received from the Portuegese Air Force had any kind of contact information such as the address to send them payment. or if so if you tried sending them a letter.

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

Our primary insurance, which is our healthcare provider, has a third party company who handles these types of claims and has indicated that they will pay. The problem is that the cruise line, Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings, has claimed that they already paid. My primary insurance will reimburse them but need documentation of payment. Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings has not provided this necessary documentation after almost 3 months of misdirection, misinformation, and stalling. As all of our insurance policies that would cover this expense expire after one year after the incident, we have little time left to resolve this claim. If the deadline is past, we will then have to reimburse Oceania/Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings ourselves, in spite of having primary, secondary, and even tertiary insurance coverage.

FWIW:

There was another possible approach to this which probably would have made all less complicated.

1. Invoice for field rescue comes to patient from Portuguese Air Force

2. Patient pays Invoice 

3. Patient submits proof of payment to insurance company (along with associated medical records)

4. Patient receives insurance reimbursement

5. if Oceania later bills patient for PAF field rescue, patient sends O their proof of payment to PAF. 
6. If Oceania also pays invoice, Oceania requests refund from PAF.

Edited January 14 by Flatbush Flyer

[Bongomauka]

35 minutes ago, TRLD said:

But the question is the problem company the cruise line that paid the bill then sent you an invoice or is it your Medicare advantage company that will not accept the invoice from you  but is instead requiring another level of documentation that travel insurance companies do not normally require?

 

 

You never did answer the question if the bill you received from the Portuegese Air Force had any kind of contact information such as the address to send them payment. or if so if you tried sending them a letter.

 

35 minutes ago, TRLD said:

But the question is the problem company the cruise line that paid the bill then sent you an invoice or is it your Medicare advantage company that will not accept the invoice from you  but is instead requiring another level of documentation that travel insurance companies do not normally require?

 

 

You never did answer the question if the bill you received from the Portuegese Air Force had any kind of contact information such as the address to send them payment. or if so if you tried sending them a letter.

The cruise line told my health insurance company that they paid the Portuguese Air Force invoice but they have not presented any evidence, receipt, or other documentation to demonstrate that it was paid. This documentation is necessary for my insurance company to reimburse Oceania. The invoice has no direct contact information except for international wiring information. As I wrote previously, I have made an appointment with the Portuguese consulate only to have them cancel the appointment just 20 minutes before the meeting. I actually even wired a small portion of the bill to Portugal as a test and it was not accepted and returned to my bank account. The problem is with the people at Oceania who have stalled for 7 months with misinformation and redirection and now, finally when the resolution is at hand, they have stalled again with the same misinformation and misdirection these last 3 months. I am about to run out of time to get my insurance company to cover this cost within their 1 year timeframe.

[Bongomauka]

8 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

FWIW:

There was another possible approach to this which probably would have made all less complicated.

1. Invoice for field rescue comes to patient from Portuguese Air Force

2. Patient pays Invoice 

3. Patient submits proof of payment to insurance company (along with associated medical records)

4. Receive insurance reimbursement

5. if Oceania later bills you for PAF field rescue, send them your proof of payment to PAF. 
6. If Oceania also pays invoice, Oceania requests refund from PAF.

If you may have read elsewhere, I have tried to contact as well as wire money to the Portuguese Air Force directly and indirectly contact them through their consulate, all to no avail. The actual invoice was sent directly to NCL which was forwarded to me by NCL’s third party insurance processor. The only option at this point is for Oceania to supply the documents showing their payment on the invoice to the Portuguese Air Force. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

…. I actually even wired a small portion of the bill to Portugal as a test and it was not accepted and returned to my bank account…..

And the written reason provided for “non-acceptance” is/was????

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 minute ago, Bongomauka said:

If you may have read elsewhere, I have tried to contact as well as wire money to the Portuguese Air Force directly and indirectly contact them through their consulate, all to no avail. The actual invoice was sent directly to NCL which was forwarded to me by NCL’s third party insurance processor. The only option at this point is for Oceania to supply the documents showing their payment on the invoice to the Portuguese Air Force. 

And you’ve asked that “third party insurance processor” for a copy of their proof of payment to PAF and/or an explanation of “why not” in writing?

 

Have you contacted your Congressman to seek assistance from the US State Dept folks in Portugal?

I notice you’re in the Bay Area. Beside Elliott.org, have you talked to the consumer advocacy folks at the local TV Networks affiliates?

[TRLD]

21 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

 

The cruise line told my health insurance company that they paid the Portuguese Air Force invoice but they have not presented any evidence, receipt, or other documentation to demonstrate that it was paid. This documentation is necessary for my insurance company to reimburse Oceania. The invoice has no direct contact information except for international wiring information. As I wrote previously, I have made an appointment with the Portuguese consulate only to have them cancel the appointment just 20 minutes before the meeting. I actually even wired a small portion of the bill to Portugal as a test and it was not accepted and returned to my bank account. The problem is with the people at Oceania who have stalled for 7 months with misinformation and redirection and now, finally when the resolution is at hand, they have stalled again with the same misinformation and misdirection these last 3 months. I am about to run out of time to get my insurance company to cover this cost within their 1 year timeframe.

Another route is to try a different go contact the regional search and rescue administrative office. MRCC are those responsible for marine rescues. The following link lists the major offices and their Email addresses. So depending upon where you evacuated you might try one of those and see if they can point you in the right direction to see if the bill has been paid.

 

https://sarcontacts.info/countries/portugal/

[Bongomauka]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

No written reason given. We just found that the funds were redeposited in our account. Obstensibly because there was no longer an outstanding balance as it was paid by Oceania, but of course, since Oceania is not forthcoming, we do not know for certain. 

[Bongomauka]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

And you’ve asked that “third party insurance processor” for a copy of their proof of payment to PAF and/or an explanation of “why not” in writing?

 

Have you contacted your Congressman to seek assistance from the US State Dept folks in Portugal?

I notice you’re in the Bay Area. Beside Elliott.org, have you talked to the consumer advocacy folks at the local TV Networks affiliates?

Naturally we have asked for such documentation but the third party with whom we are In daily contact has not received any proof of payment. In spite of being emotionally and physically exhausted from wrestling with insurance companies, their third party agents as well as foreign governments and a totally indifferent and dishonest cruise line company, we will take your suggestion and contact our congressman but with the full realization that our country’s congress has been woefully inadequate and we will therefore keep our expectations at a level commensurate. And yes we have contacted Elliot.org and await their response. 

[PhD-iva]

19 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your post. To be clear, we received an invoice from the Portuguese Air Force so we are ultimately responsible for the bill. 

As Vallesan has also posted, you have an invoice (from the PAF) that you are responsible to pay. This should be sufficient documentation for your insurance claim (perhaps you have to first pay the invoice).
If Oceania also paid some monies, they will have to chase down their own refund - you will have settled the bill directly. If Oceania later tries to collect from you, you will be able to document that the bill has been paid (directly to PAF), and they’ll have to chase down their own refund.

I hope this helps.

[TRLD]

58 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

No written reason given. We just found that the funds were redeposited in our account. Obstensibly because there was no longer an outstanding balance as it was paid by Oceania, but of course, since Oceania is not forthcoming, we do not know for certain. 

Just to be clear you sent funds to the transfer account to pay it directly, and those funds were returned.  Have you provided your records of that transaction to the insurance company which would support NCLs comment that they have paid it.

 

What exactly is the insurance company requiring?  You have your returned funds showing that it is apparently no longer owed. Though no statement.  You have an invoice receive from NCL showing that you have a debt with them.  So what exactly are they requiring as proof? 

 

After all their payment is most likely an electronic transfer.  So no proof would be generated.  Unlikely that the Portuguese Air Force would send them a receipt or a new invoice with a zero balance, after all they did not send you one and they appear not to communicate other then the invoice. With many business transactions a receipt is not sent when a bill is paid, only another invoice if something is not paid.

 

Apparently your insurance will not accept a statement  from NCL that they paid it and now the debt is owed to them.  Would a letter from NCL be acceptable?  If your insurance company will not accept a letter from them then your company may be asking for something that NCL really cannot provide.  After all there may not be a paper trail (receipts, new zero invoice, etc. other then their own internal electronic bank records) and unlikely that they will provide their actual bank transaction records, though they might include the date and amount paid and maybe the transfer number in a written letter, but not sure that there is really any other proof for them to provide.

 

So what exactly is your insurance company is requiring?  Normally the fact that they have sent you an invoice and stating that they paid it would be sufficient, especially since you tried paying it directly and the funds were returned.

 

 

Edited January 15 by TRLD

[TRLD]

14 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

As Vallesan has also posted, you have an invoice (from the PAF) that you are responsible to pay. This should be sufficient documentation for your insurance claim (perhaps you have to first pay the invoice).
If Oceania also paid some monies, they will have to chase down their own refund - you will have settled the bill directly. If Oceania later tries to collect from you, you will be able to document that the bill has been paid (directly to PAF), and they’ll have to chase down their own refund.

I hope this helps.

He said he tried to pay it to the portuguese AF and the wired funds were returned to his account without any additional information. 

Edited January 15 by TRLD

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Naturally we have asked for such documentation but the third party with whom we are In daily contact has not received any proof of payment. In spite of being emotionally and physically exhausted from wrestling with insurance companies, their third party agents as well as foreign governments and a totally indifferent and dishonest cruise line company, we will take your suggestion and contact our congressman but with the full realization that our country’s congress has been woefully inadequate and we will therefore keep our expectations at a level commensurate. And yes we have contacted Elliot.org and await their response. 

What are the names and positions (including actual departments) of the individuals at Oceania and/or NCLH (and/or their contracted agencies who have refused to send you proof of their payment to the PAF or who you perceive to be “stonewalling.” It would also be helpful if you attached here copies of anything sent to you clearly demonstrating their “heel dragging”’or “lack of reasonable assistance” (of course, redacted for your personal info). Why? From your stated experiences so far, I trust you realize that anything not in writing is pretty much useless.

As far as the US Congress is concerned, you may be very surprised at just how much a Congressman or Senator can accomplish when it involves a foreign government that relies on good relations with the US. That said, however, I strongly suggest that, when you do speak to someone in that office (or, in fact, anyone whose help you seek, you refrain from doing what you’ve done here (perhaps unintentionally) by dribbling clarifying information over way too many posts. In fact I recommend that you take all of your responses here, consolidate them in a chronological (non-repetitive) history complete with names, dates, facts and an opening statement pinpointing the main 3 issues at hand: you need time limited proof to complete a claim; despite your best efforts, you do not yet have it ; and what you seek as the remedy (whatever- proof or otherwise- it takes to spare you undeserved “out of pocket” expenses). And the biggest challenge: reduce it to no more than four typed pages with appropriate appendices.
 

Folks here obviously want to help you get through this. But, what we need is objective/demonstrable data devoid of your dislike of O or NCLH. 

[ldubs]

25 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

As Vallesan has also posted, you have an invoice (from the PAF) that you are responsible to pay. This should be sufficient documentation for your insurance claim (perhaps you have to first pay the invoice).
If Oceania also paid some monies, they will have to chase down their own refund - you will have settled the bill directly. If Oceania later tries to collect from you, you will be able to document that the bill has been paid (directly to PAF), and they’ll have to chase down their own refund.

I hope this helps.

 

It is all very convoluted.  I don't understand why because it was sent directly to the OP, but Oceania has paid the PAF invoice.  If that is the case, what loss has the OP actually experienced?   Until they get an invoice for reimbursement from Oceania, they have nothing to support the financial loss.  That is what the insurer needs.   

Edited January 15 by ldubs

[PhD-iva]

4 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Edited January 15 by PhD-iva
Deleted