Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[carlanthony24]

3 minutes ago, snaefell said:

The small print will surely get most,if not all of us sometime,all the benefits offered are all subject to operational requirements.

I really do not understand the fuss,PE & IFE have only been on offer a relatively short time yet suddenly people can't do without them & object to flying on anything over a few years old,sounds like people have been spoilt!

As has already been pointed out cruises are planned years ahead whilst airline schedules are usually on a much shorter time scale,if travel companies had seen Covid coming I wonder how differently they may have planned things.

Exactly. I wonder what would of happened if TUI had gone under P&O would of been stuck and most likely would not be having a winter season in the Caribbean. I believe Megabear said a lot would blame P&O even though that is out of their hands.

Edited September 26, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Eglesbrech]

7 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Of course I am but knowing it can happen anytime. Like I said people who do these Caribbean flights regularly or even another long haul how many are risking it knowing full well they may get a different aircraft and knowing they can't tolerate still book it. I guess we both see it from different points of view.

I’m glad you have some sympathy.😀

 

This is where CC is so very useful. I will personally never book with P&O for the Caribbean again. I would rather pay more to be absolutely guaranteed a comfortable flight.

 

 

[carlanthony24]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I’m glad you have some sympathy.😀

 

This is where CC is so very useful. I will personally never book with P&O for the Caribbean again. I would rather pay more to be absolutely guaranteed a comfortable flight.

 

 

So pay more but still not guaranteed to get what you want.

[Eglesbrech]

13 minutes ago, snaefell said:

PE & IFE have only been on offer a relatively short time yet suddenly people can't do without them & object to flying on anything over a few years old,sounds like people have been spoilt!

In flight entertainment may be a new thing but extra room seats / business class have been around for a very long time with P&O actually.
 

Hardly  “spoilt”. You get what you pay for.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

So pay more but still not guaranteed to get what you want.

How so?

 

[carlanthony24]

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

How so?

 

Because you could pay to fly BA to Barbados for instance and expect the B777 and get Wamos A330 with no entertainment, leg room for instance.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

Because you could pay to fly BA to Barbados for instance and expect the B777 and get Wamos A330 with no entertainment, leg room for instance.

Thankfully every time I have booked business class I have got business class. 

[carlanthony24]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Thankfully every time I have booked business class I have got business class. 

Lucky then but can always happen.

[snaefell]

33 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

In flight entertainment may be a new thing but extra room seats / business class have been around for a very long time with P&O actually.
 

Hardly  “spoilt”. You get what you pay for.

Depends on what you call a very long time,for those of us who cut our long haul teeth back in the 1980's when the likes of Laker Skytrain,Monarch,Aertours & others crammed as many as they could onto flights getting extra legroom in one of the very few exit seats was pretty much a pipedream.

At six & a half foot,17stone & with a dodgy knee it wasn't often comfy but if I wanted to see the world it was what we had to put up with...happy days!!!

[Pasty feet]

6 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I noticed you said you booked onboard.  I hope you don't mind me asking, but may I ask if that was a reduced deposit for doing so and as a matter of interest whether you paid the PE supplement upfront?  

We paid the deposit onboard and am unsure if it was a reduced one as that wasn’t mentioned as I recall. We were on quite a high as our current cabin on that cruise was by coincidence available for the Caribbean. We simply paid what was asked. I assume the PE premium is calculated as part of the final payment due in November. All this has now become academic as we cancelled as soon as I spoke to P & O after receiving their email. 

[Megabear2]

24 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

We paid the deposit onboard and am unsure if it was a reduced one as that wasn’t mentioned as I recall. We were on quite a high as our current cabin on that cruise was by coincidence available for the Caribbean. We simply paid what was asked. I assume the PE premium is calculated as part of the final payment due in November. All this has now become academic as we cancelled as soon as I spoke to P & O after receiving their email. 

Thank you. I was asking as some people were asked to pay their PE in full at the time of booking rather than the percentage deposit (normally 10%).  I was going to say if you had paid the PE supplement in full you would be entitled to a full refund of that amount and only forfeit your deposit on the base rare at cancellation.  However you've explained you booked onboard so that is presumably a £100 deposit each, total £200.  There are others who have paid the 10% and say they've not been repaid their £409 supplement which was paid up front which was why I asked.

 

Not much consolation but if you had booked not onboard your deposit would have been 10% of your £7,000 at £700 so a far bigger loss.  I suspect many who have been on social media may not have followed through on their cancellations faced with a loss of this amount.

 

 

 

[Pasty feet]

25 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

We paid the deposit onboard and am unsure if it was a reduced one as that wasn’t mentioned as I recall. We were on quite a high as our current cabin on that cruise was by coincidence available for the Caribbean. We simply paid what was asked. I assume the PE premium is calculated as part of the final payment due in November. All this has now become academic as we cancelled as soon as I spoke to P & O after receiving their email. 

I guess I am a newbie to all this. Previously on our travels all the airlines we’ve been with including American Airlines, Continental, Virgin, Thomson, Tui , Air Canada etc etc were booked without any idea we would end up not flying with them and indeed it never happened. So at least 50 flights passed without incident. The fly cruise arrangement is obviously different and canny experienced passengers are aware of the potential pitfalls. As naive people we just simply booked requiring PE and yes, you can say we should have read the small print and buyer beware. It’s a lesson learned, but thankfully not an expensive one. It would have been helpful if the sales lady on Arvia had brought this to our attention. Older and wiser ha ha. 

[Pasty feet]

6 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Thank you. I was asking as some people were asked to pay their PE in full at the time of booking rather than the percentage deposit (normally 10%).  I was going to say if you had paid the PE supplement in full you would be entitled to a full refund of that amount and only forfeit your deposit on the base rare at cancellation.  However you've explained you booked onboard so that is presumably a £100 deposit each, total £200.  There are others who have paid the 10% and say they've not been repaid their £409 supplement which was paid up front which was why I asked.

 

Not much consolation but if you had booked not onboard your deposit would have been 10% of your £7,000 at £700 so a far bigger loss.  I suspect many who have been on social media may not have followed through on their cancellations faced with a loss of this amount.

 

 

 

Yes I can see we have fared better than others. I simply couldn’t face the hassle of an economy flight and a tussle with P & O.  Thanks for your words of wisdom. 

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Pasty feet said:

I guess I am a newbie to all this. Previously on our travels all the airlines we’ve been with including American Airlines, Continental, Virgin, Thomson, Tui , Air Canada etc etc were booked without any idea we would end up not flying with them and indeed it never happened. So at least 50 flights passed without incident. The fly cruise arrangement is obviously different and canny experienced passengers are aware of the potential pitfalls. As naive people we just simply booked requiring PE and yes, you can say we should have read the small print and buyer beware. It’s a lesson learned, but thankfully not an expensive one. It would have been helpful if the sales lady on Arvia had brought this to our attention. Older and wiser ha ha. 

Unfortunately most people don't read terms and conditions of anything they purchase or indeed in a lot of cases understand them when they do. You will find tucked away in all the small print on any contract things which you and most people feel unfair.  Unfortunately they are there to protect the company and the onus is very much on the individual to read and fully understand what they are signing up to.  Rather than older and wiser, perhaps buyer beware.

 

The secret is to think the very worst, stupidest thing that would cause you a problem and check and ask how the company could get out of it.

 

Consumer law sadly ain't all its cracked up to be!  

[Pasty feet]

Just now, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately most people don't read terms and conditions of anything they purchase or indeed in a lot of cases understand them when they do. You will find tucked away in all the small print on any contract things which you and most people feel unfair.  Unfortunately they are there to protect the company and the onus is very much on the individual to read and fully understand what they are signing up to.  Rather than older and wiser, perhaps buyer beware.

 

The secret is to think the very worst, stupidest thing that would cause you a problem and check and ask how the company could get out of it.

 

Consumer law sadly ain't all its cracked up to be!  

 

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately most people don't read terms and conditions of anything they purchase or indeed in a lot of cases understand them when they do. You will find tucked away in all the small print on any contract things which you and most people feel unfair.  Unfortunately they are there to protect the company and the onus is very much on the individual to read and fully understand what they are signing up to.  Rather than older and wiser, perhaps buyer beware.

 

The secret is to think the very worst, stupidest thing that would cause you a problem and check and ask how the company could get out of it.

 

Consumer law sadly ain't all its cracked up to be!  

Well said. 

[Megabear2]

25 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

I guess I am a newbie to all this. Previously on our travels all the airlines we’ve been with including American Airlines, Continental, Virgin, Thomson, Tui , Air Canada etc etc were booked without any idea we would end up not flying with them and indeed it never happened. So at least 50 flights passed without incident.

Final story on airlines before I close.  My 82 year old aunt and I went on a fly cruise with Princess last year and she had booked it all - I was a very late substitute. My aunt has Internet but doesn't have a clue how to use it.  On the night before we were flying I asked her if she'd checked us in.  No she sys the agent knows I don’t do Internet,  We arrive at Gatwick next day and approach the Easyjet check in.  Hmm ... sorry you aren't flying as you aren't checked in and we've given someone else your seat!  Apparently full flight and Easyjet, BA etc oversell the seats.  Wasn't a big problem before the pandemic although it's happened for years. Now it's very much a problem with reduced capacity on aircraft and far less flights.  It really is a bit hit and miss what you'll fly on, where from and when.

 

Ohby the way after many desperate phone calls between me, the agent and Princess we did finally get to Barcelona courtesy of BA and caught the ship but it was a real trauma. We had arrived 10.00am for a 2.00pm flight ended up early morning next day on a different airline!

Edited September 27, 2023 by Megabear2

[Pasty feet]

9 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Final story on airlines before I close.  My 82 year old aunt and I went on a fly cruise with Princess last year and she had booked it all - I was a very late substitute. My aunt has Internet but doesn't have a clue how to use it.  On the night before we were flying I asked her if she'd checked us in.  No she sys the agent knows I don’t do Internet,  We arrive at Gatwick next day and approach the Easyjet check in.  Hmm ... sorry you aren't flying as you aren't checked in and we've given someone else your seat!  Apparently full flight and Easyjet, BA etc oversell the seats.  Wasn't a big problem before the pandemic although it's happened for years. Now it's very much a problem with reduced capacity on aircraft and far less flights.  It really is a bit hit and miss what you'll fly on, where from and when.

 

Ohby the way after many desperate phone calls between me, the agent and Princess we did finally get to Barcelona courtesy of BA and caught the ship but it was a real trauma. We had arrived 10.00am for a 2.00pm flight ended up early morning next day on a different airline!

Gracious, an utter nightmare.  I can see that booking a fly cruise has many hazards. Wishing you a great cruise and Bon voyage. 

[Megabear2]

Apparently according to a thread on tadvisor, someone has set up a concerted attack on P&O  via social media. Certainly the 21 pages over there are mind boggling on occasions, however my favourite post is this one:

 

"The cruisecritic thread is similarly entertaining: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2964236-flight-changes-to-caribbean-with-no-inflight-entertainment/#comment-66123956

 

More reasonable posts from cruisers there than over here."

 

Keep up the good work chaps!!!

[Winifred 22]

Thank you Megabear2 for your insightful comments. There are some quite nasty posts too on their Twitter(X) page too. Sadly people just don’t seem to accept the overall picture. Seems the more the T &C ‘s are explained the more they push back. As you say at the end of the day the the reality  was a less glamorous flight or no flight and a cancelled cruise. I hadn’t realised either the small numbers that would actually be affected by the P E debacle. I feel sorry for someone who couldn’t entertain themselves for the flight with a book, magazine , puzzle etc.. what do people do if they don’t like the entertainment on offer ? Controversial I know but I think it’s right people should lose their deposit if they cancel. That’s how non refundable deposits work. I’ve cancelled cruises I had booked ages ago for small / full deposits when I no longer wanted them. When I booked I knew I would loose that money but was happy to lock in that cruise/ price just in case. 

[Snow Hill]

Not affected by this, but what would happen should one of these planes goes “technical” before takeoff, where would Maleth & P&O source a replacement plane from in a few hours. 
 

We were on a fly cruise to the Med in 2017, our plane went “technical” as the pilot called it, just before we were due to start our takeoff. TUI the providers managed to source another of their planes within a couple of hours. This was short haul which I guess is easier to deal with, but long haul,with a company with few planes is a different matter. I wonder what, if any, plans P&O have in place to deal with this scenario regardless of which provider is used? 

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

Not affected by this, but what would happen should one of these planes goes “technical” before takeoff, where would Maleth & P&O source a replacement plane from in a few hours. 
 

We were on a fly cruise to the Med in 2017, our plane went “technical” as the pilot called it, just before we were due to start our takeoff. TUI the providers managed to source another of their planes within a couple of hours. This was short haul which I guess is easier to deal with, but long haul,with a company with few planes is a different matter. I wonder what, if any, plans P&O have in place to deal with this scenario regardless of which provider is used? 

Over Christmas last year (only Britannia sailing of course) several planes did go "technical" and TUI unfortunately didn't have spare planes.  A very large number of them had very long delays as a result - 12 hours in one case.  One Glasgow flight didn't even make it to Barbados on its scheduled day with people being brought back to the ship overnight to go home a day late. It is currently a fact of life there is a huge shortage of aircraft as a knock on from the pandemic.  Lots of orders for new planes are severely behind as they aren't built and therefore are not being delivered.  For instance Ryanair have 24 out of 51 orders delayed by Boeing, Airbus are already announcing delays to 2024 deliveries and both manufacturers have more severe delays and difficulties with wide bodied long haul aircraft.

 

Unfortunately this is going to run and run for quite a while.

 

https://about.ch-aviation.com/blog/2023/06/19/ch-aviation-report-aircraft-on-order-worldwide/#:~:text=In terms of aircraft types,is second with 2%2C265 commitments.

 

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Delivery-delays-keep-limiting-airline-capacity-growth

Edited September 27, 2023 by Megabear2

[Eglesbrech]

7 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately most people don't read terms and conditions of anything they purchase or indeed in a lot of cases understand them when they do. You will find tucked away in all the small print on any contract things which you and most people feel unfair.  Unfortunately they are there to protect the company and the onus is very much on the individual to read and fully understand what they are signing up to.  Rather than older and wiser, perhaps buyer beware.

 

The secret is to think the very worst, stupidest thing that would cause you a problem and check and ask how the company could get out of it.

 

Consumer law sadly ain't all its cracked up to be!  

Consumer law in the U.K. is indeed limited.

 

I always thought that the consumer rights act 2015 would have more impact than it has, particularly the unfair terms section. If a term in a contract is challenged and held to be one sided or just unfair it won’t be upheld, There seem to be few who challenge though. 
 

It introduced the notion of 'good faith' to avoid any significant imbalance in mutual rights and obligations.

 

There was a further review of this area in 2016 and a call for evidence but I’m not sure what happened with it. It was looking specifically as things like small print, length and clarity of documents etc.. It also looked specifically at the point you make about people not reading T&Cs if they are simply asked to tick a box or if those T&Cs are too long and complex.
 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

8 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Apparently according to a thread on tadvisor, someone has set up a concerted attack on P&O  via social media. Certainly the 21 pages over there are mind boggling on occasions, however my favourite post is this one:

 

"The cruisecritic thread is similarly entertaining: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2964236-flight-changes-to-caribbean-with-no-inflight-entertainment/#comment-66123956

 

More reasonable posts from cruisers there than over here."

 

Keep up the good work chaps!!!

They've just picked one of our better threads!!

 

Lol

[Interestedcruisefan]

54 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Consumer law in the U.K. is indeed limited.

 

I always thought that the consumer rights act 2015 would have more impact than it has, particularly the unfair terms section. If a term in a contract is challenged and held to be one sided or just unfair it won’t be upheld, There seem to be few who challenge though. 
 

It introduced the notion of 'good faith' to avoid any significant imbalance in mutual rights and obligations.

 

There was a further review of this area in 2016 and a call for evidence but I’m not sure what happened with it. It was looking specifically as things like small print, length and clarity of documents etc.. It also looked specifically at the point you make about people not reading T&Cs if they are simply asked to tick a box or if those T&Cs are too long and complex.
 

 

Thing is for almost any holiday overseas etc if you read all the terms and conditions and then feared the worst happening for each one then none of us would ever leave home!!

 

 

 

 

[zap99]

9 hours ago, Pasty feet said:

I guess I am a newbie to all this. Previously on our travels all the airlines we’ve been with including American Airlines, Continental, Virgin, Thomson, Tui , Air Canada etc etc were booked without any idea we would end up not flying with them and indeed it never happened. So at least 50 flights passed without incident. The fly cruise arrangement is obviously different and canny experienced passengers are aware of the potential pitfalls. As naive people we just simply booked requiring PE and yes, you can say we should have read the small print and buyer beware. It’s a lesson learned, but thankfully not an expensive one. It would have been helpful if the sales lady on Arvia had brought this to our attention. Older and wiser ha ha. 

We have flown hundreds of times and have never experienced one airline being swapped for another. We booked our Britannia cruise yonks ago by phone. We will not fly longhaul in economy, various reasons, but mainly comfort. When we booked quite early that was to secure PE seats. On the phone the booking agent at P&O said " yes, lots if premium seats still available ". If she gad told me, sorry, we haven't even got a plane yet we wouldn't have booked at all. We cancelled and forfeited the 10% deposit.