question on tipping policy

[icft]

2 hours ago, kirtihk said:

I said it may times: it would only save so much time on pleasurable topics if a tipping concept is completely hidden inside (moves to) the total price (like in most of Europe and a lot of other regions)!  Just reading threads like this one generates a headache.

I agree, but I don't think it is possible with Americans. It looks to me, and I could well be wrong, that what you described is what NCL tried to do. They basically say "here's the price all tips included" but the tipping culture is so ingrained in Americans that many just have to add a tip. If NCL upped their drink and dining service charges to 50% and tripled their onboard service charge some would still feel the need to cash tip.

[julig22]

1 minute ago, icft said:

I agree, but I don't think it is possible with Americans. It looks to me, and I could well be wrong, that what you described is what NCL tried to do. They basically say "here's the price all tips included" but the tipping culture is so ingrained in Americans that many just have to add a tip. If NCL upped their drink and dining service charges to 50% and tripled their onboard service charge some would still feel the need to cash tip.

It is very possibly an accounting thing. Keep in mind that if you cancel after final payment, those are fees that are refunded. And for those of us who don't get the drink/meal packages, we certainly would not want the gratuities included into the overall cost of the cruise.

All of the charges, except the OSC, are included in the price quote by the time you get to the final payment - and those charges aren't optional. But they could be a little more upfront with the OSC, since I don't think that appears anywhere when you are booking online.  If you call to book, they usually ask if you want to include them on your invoice. 

[cruiser2015]

49 minutes ago, julig22 said:

It is very possibly an accounting thing. Keep in mind that if you cancel after final payment, those are fees that are refunded. And for those of us who don't get the drink/meal packages, we certainly would not want the gratuities included into the overall cost of the cruise.

All of the charges, except the OSC, are included in the price quote by the time you get to the final payment - and those charges aren't optional. But they could be a little more upfront with the OSC, since I don't think that appears anywhere when you are booking online.  If you call to book, they usually ask if you want to include them on your invoice. 

Yes - they graciously allow you pay pay for them fully in advance, like the rest of the cruise.

[kirtihk]

1 hour ago, icft said:

I agree, but I don't think it is possible with Americans. It looks to me, and I could well be wrong, that what you described is what NCL tried to do. They basically say "here's the price all tips included" but the tipping culture is so ingrained in Americans that many just have to add a tip. If NCL upped their drink and dining service charges to 50% and tripled their onboard service charge some would still feel the need to cash tip.

Oh, I see your point.

[julig22]

8 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

Yes - they graciously allow you pay pay for them fully in advance, like the rest of the cruise.

Not my point. They do NOT show the OSC charges when you are booking online - nor is there a place to add them with your initial booking.  If you call, they will ask. Otherwise, you have to add it later - or they will bill you daily.

[dbrown84]

4 hours ago, yakcruiser said:

This could get really weird if we start seeing people with pineapples on their PJ's.

especially if those pineapples are strategically placed 🤣

[TheMichael]

3 hours ago, icft said:

I agree, but I don't think it is possible with Americans. It looks to me, and I could well be wrong, that what you described is what NCL tried to do. They basically say "here's the price all tips included" but the tipping culture is so ingrained in Americans that many just have to add a tip. If NCL upped their drink and dining service charges to 50% and tripled their onboard service charge some would still feel the need to cash tip.

 

That extreme theoretical hides the fact that even the current "standard" gratuities aren't adding up to all that much per employee on a ship, and of course in every thread there are the folks who declare "I remove the gratuity and choose to personally pay the people who serve me the best" (which of course never includes the cooks and dishwashers and the people who wash the bedsheets or put the ramps in place at the ports).

 

Virgin does not charge separately for tips and pays their staff accordingly, so they're called the "expensive" cruise line. 

 

There will always be people who tip extra, and most of those people have zero problem with it, because we like being nice to people, and helping with someone's life in some small way is definitely being nice. Also, people who have worked in the service business tend to tip very well, because they know how it is. 

[pullen0]

The tipping model will never go away as some will not want to lose the power it gives them over other people.  

[cruiser2015]

13 hours ago, julig22 said:

Not my point. They do NOT show the OSC charges when you are booking online - nor is there a place to add them with your initial booking.  If you call, they will ask. Otherwise, you have to add it later - or they will bill you daily.

Understood.

But it was my point; call it an addendum to yours.

[debbyfelse1963]

On 2/26/2024 at 8:23 PM, icft said:

Just as a point of information and not contention, I think your concern with tips going to "everyone" is a bit misplaced.

 

Before the cruise lines went to their automatically charged gratuities (or service charge as some prefer) you would only tip those who personally provided you service. That was the end of the story as far as the passenger was concerned but not the end of the tip story.

 

In those days, just as occurs today in many restaurants, the person who received the tip would "tip out" those behind the scenes. That is they would tip those behind the scenes who helped them earn the tip. Room stewards in those days were considered "up there" among the crew in great part because they received lots of tips and controlled to whom and how much they passed along the tips. That is why they had not only the authority but also the power to get their passengers whatever creature comforts they wanted.

 

Under the old system you tipped those who directly provided you service but your tip filtered along to "everyone."

 

Under the new system the room steward has very little authority and very little power to do much for you and you give your tip to the cruise line who when distributes it to both the front line employees and those behind the scenes. The advantage for the cruise line is that it cuts down on conflict between employees. The advantage for the customer is that they don't have to keep cash in reserve for the last day then run around giving out tips.

 

In either system you are paying everyone. But if you mix systems by not paying the cruise line but only those who directly provide service you gum up the system and create possible crew conflict.

 

We feel it better to consider the service charges full payment of tips for good service and only consider cash tips for above and beyond service. So it is rare we cash tip. I know some folks consider that cheap, but looking at the dollars it looks fair to us. I actually think NCL looked at what was fair, based the service charges on that plus a little extra, and considers that the end of the story. But some folks just have to complicate things and ask about cash tips. NCL isn't going to tick off their employees by saying no, they just say it is not expected, but I suspect they consider those who cash tip for regular service to be that thing that can't be fixed.

That is what I was trying to convey in my post too.  personally I would never ask to have the daily service charge removed and the gratuities on drinks and the such either.  If you feel ok within yourself to try and have these removed then I feel sorry for you.  To me it says that you don't value the effort put forth by all the crew.  We still give extra cash tips to our cabin steward if he is personable and to other servers who we thought were great and friendly.  On our last Escape cruise we had a particular cocktail server who always seemed to be where we were and went above and beyond to be friendly and helpful, therefore we gave him a nice cash tip at the end of our cruise.  Personally I know going on the cruise I have to pay these daily service charges and just because 1 person may have not lived up to your standards would I take away from everybody else, but that's just me.

[debbyfelse1963]

7 hours ago, pullen0 said:

The tipping model will never go away as some will not want to lose the power it gives them over other people.  

couldn't agree more.  I guess some of these people on here think they're above certain people

[debbyfelse1963]

4 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

Understood.

But it was my point; call it an addendum to yours.

not true we always prepay our gratuities prior to embarkation.  That way it's not a surprise to us at the end of our cruise.  If you go online to your booking there is an area for you to prepay your gratuities along with if you want to buy shore excursions and specialty dinning.  I know in some countries they include them in with the price of the cruise. Just makes it easier for us to pay before

[debbyfelse1963]

16 hours ago, TheMichael said:

 

That extreme theoretical hides the fact that even the current "standard" gratuities aren't adding up to all that much per employee on a ship, and of course in every thread there are the folks who declare "I remove the gratuity and choose to personally pay the people who serve me the best" (which of course never includes the cooks and dishwashers and the people who wash the bedsheets or put the ramps in place at the ports).

 

Virgin does not charge separately for tips and pays their staff accordingly, so they're called the "expensive" cruise line. 

 

There will always be people who tip extra, and most of those people have zero problem with it, because we like being nice to people, and helping with someone's life in some small way is definitely being nice. Also, people who have worked in the service business tend to tip very well, because they know how it is. 

You hit the nail on the head and I couldn't agree with you more.

 

 

[cruiser2015]

52 minutes ago, debbyfelse1963 said:

not true we always prepay our gratuities prior to embarkation.  That way it's not a surprise to us at the end of our cruise.  If you go online to your booking there is an area for you to prepay your gratuities along with if you want to buy shore excursions and specialty dinning.  I know in some countries they include them in with the price of the cruise. Just makes it easier for us to pay before

Perhaps my wording confused you.

I was expressing my view, not trying to say it was yours.

Personally, I prefer not paying in advance for most things.

As you are fully aware of these fees, how would that be a surprise to you onboard.

Anyway, everyone has their approach to things.

I did not even need to make a choice on my last cruise (last month), as my TA paid it for us ($600).

[PartyPlannerLady]

9 hours ago, pullen0 said:

The tipping model will never go away as some will not want to lose the power it gives them over other people.  

When I tip someone it does not give me any power over that person at all.

[bkrickles1]

29 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

I did not even need to make a choice on my last cruise (last month), as my TA paid it for us ($600).

Wow! That's awesome!

That's a lot for a TA to cover.

I was introduced to a friend of a friend, who's a TA, and she couldn't really do anything for me that I couldn't do myself so I do it myself. Lol!

[cruiser2015]

13 minutes ago, bkrickles1 said:

Wow! That's awesome!

That's a lot for a TA to cover.

I was introduced to a friend of a friend, who's a TA, and she couldn't really do anything for me that I couldn't do myself so I do it myself. Lol!

Clearly, that is not the TA you want to be dealing with.

I've read on these boards about TA's that literally give you a cash rebate at several % of the cruise cost. Never had one of those.

But some agencies (I've used 2 or 3 over the years) have other giveaways.

Aside form the OSC being paid (a benefit that this agency puts on and off at different times) I received $300 credit on the card I used for the cruise payments based on spending at least that match onboard. Had to send in my cruise bill to verify and got the credit a few days later. They also offered an option instead of that - get a $250 gift card post cruise - no documentation needed.

Finally, there was a $250 post cruise gift card which I actually received by email today.

So, that's $1150 total givebacks on a total bill of about $7600.

Agencies that do these things are kicking back a portion of their commission.

[TheMichael]

55 minutes ago, PartyPlannerLady said:

When I tip someone it does not give me any power over that person at all.

 

The only one with power in that interaction is the employer, who has both the power to not pay them a full wage and the power to convince customers that tipping is a reasonable way to make up for that. (And again, the only way to appropriately show disapproval of the situation is not to patronize the employer. Virgin ships should be overbooked with people whose philosophy is not to tip.)

 

There are so many rationales for not tipping, but the one I like least is the variations of "the real bad guys are the people who tip." 

 

A tip is appreciation. Some people appreciate only those who can achieve some arbitrary level of service, some appreciate the work being done and the human being doing the work, and others...well, some don't really appreciate anything.

 

That's what makes tipping discussions such a valuable glimpse into human nature.

[debbyfelse1963]

7 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

Perhaps my wording confused you.

I was expressing my view, not trying to say it was yours.

Personally, I prefer not paying in advance for most things.

As you are fully aware of these fees, how would that be a surprise to you onboard.

Anyway, everyone has their approach to things.

I did not even need to make a choice on my last cruise (last month), as my TA paid it for us ($600).

no problem. i think some people claim that they didn't know, but how could you not know, especially if you have been on a cruise before.  That's nice your TA paid for them, I wish mine did (ha ha). I too feel like I don't like to pay thing in advance, but I always do with my gratuities especially how they have been increasing lately.  One thing I don't have to remember to have extra money for once I'm on the cruise.  Any way, I guess people have their own reasons how they do it.Just personal preference I guess. 

[cruiser2015]

11 hours ago, debbyfelse1963 said:

no problem. i think some people claim that they didn't know, but how could you not know, especially if you have been on a cruise before.  That's nice your TA paid for them, I wish mine did (ha ha). I too feel like I don't like to pay thing in advance, but I always do with my gratuities especially how they have been increasing lately.  One thing I don't have to remember to have extra money for once I'm on the cruise.  Any way, I guess people have their own reasons how they do it.Just personal preference I guess. 

I have never prepaid the service charges. Another reason is, that in the past, I often used OBC's to cover them.

[debbyfelse1963]

1 hour ago, cruiser2015 said:

I have never prepaid the service charges. Another reason is, that in the past, I often used OBC's to cover them.

Well that makes sense to use your onboard credits.  I paid in advance as I booked almost 2 years ago and since then the daily gratuities have gone up and I was able to get the old price if I paid before we went plus it's one less thing for me to have to consider in my budget while on the cruise

[cruiser2015]

3 hours ago, debbyfelse1963 said:

Well that makes sense to use your onboard credits.  I paid in advance as I booked almost 2 years ago and since then the daily gratuities have gone up and I was able to get the old price if I paid before we went plus it's one less thing for me to have to consider in my budget while on the cruise

That is the best reason to prepay - if you're booking that far ahead, Insurance against a price rise, which is likely every couple of years.

[debbyfelse1963]

44 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

That is the best reason to prepay - if you're booking that far ahead, Insurance against a price rise, which is likely every couple of years.

exactly. We were on Escape transatlantic in Nov 2022 and booked then.