Wine In Luminae

[DaKahuna]

2 minutes ago, George C said:

Lots of my friends are into wine big time and everyone brings bottles to our monthly poker games and sometimes a older wine goes bad.

 

 I am not "into wines big time" but I know when I taste one I like. 

 

 I've always been curious about how you know if a wine is meant to be purchased and stored / aged or if it was intended to be consumed as soon as practical/possible.  I have not found an answer yet.  

 

 I belong to a small stock investment group that is made up of former coworkers.  Pre-COVID we held meetings at each others house and the host provided the wine.  For a couple of months we pulled a "blind taste test" where the bottles were concealed and every one was asked to pick the one that was their favorite and then we unvield them and discussed.  It was interesting to see the results.  Keep in mind most of these wines were in the $15 - $40 a bottle range, although I did sneak in a $90 bottle that everyone ended up picking as the best, which surprised me. 

 

 So back to the topic, 90% of the time I ask the sommelier in Luminae to pick what he thinks will go good with what I've ordered, as long as it's red - no white, unless it is champage, and no blush/rose.  Do I think that Conundrum taste better than Morpho Helena - yes, absolutely.  But I'd also take most any of the wines on the Premium Package over any on the Classic Package. 

  

 

 

[markeb]

11 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 I've always been curious about how you know if a wine is meant to be purchased and stored / aged or if it was intended to be consumed as soon as practical/possible.  I have not found an answer yet.  

 

 

It really helps if you buy your wine from a wine shop that knows their stuff, or can do tastings. We have one of those nearby. That's where I get my recommendations on aging versus drinking now.

 

Absent any other knowledge, retail price is an imperfect indicator. If it's under $15, drink it now. If you don't like it young, it probably won't get better. Most aging discussions are for heavier reds. Bordeaux blends (cab sav, merlot, cab franc, Petite Verdot), Malbec, Zinfandel, Nebbiolo, etc. If it's one of those or a blend in the $25-50 range it's a good bet (absent other knowledge of the wine) you should drink it in 3-5 years; it may be fine now, which is a good reason to buy two bottles. $50-75 or so figure 5-7 years or so. A good structured red in the $75-100 range will probably peak around 10 years. And somewhere in that price range you probably want to know more about the wine and recommendations for aging. I've forgotten a few that went out to 14-15 years and been amazing, and a couple that weren't. And most never make it to "peak". Unless it's one from a club where I have more than one bottle of the same wine and vintage.

 

Barolo, IMHO, needs time regardless of price. New World Pinot Noir is probably a max 5 year wine in most cases (some can go longer, but if you're not creating a library, just drink it). Old World Pinot Noir, the Premier Cru and Grand Cru of Burgundy, can cellar for years, maybe decades.

 

Most of what's sold on the ships was meant to be drunk soon. Some of it wasn't, and people will pay $800 (or more, haven't looked lately) for a 2019 Opus One (current release; no 2020 vintage because of the fires) and believe that's how it should taste. Or hate it because it's harsh and tannic and wonder what the fuss is about. That's why things like Caymus are popular on the ships. It's made to be very consistent from year to year and to be drinkable almost immediately. As opposed to their Special Selection which is about 3X as expensive, varies year to year, and ages beautifully. 

 

And for the record, there's a LOT of great white wine out there! And some amazing rose as well. Just not a lot of it on cruise ships...

[zitsky]

38 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 I am not "into wines big time" but I know when I taste one I like. 

 

 I've always been curious about how you know if a wine is meant to be purchased and stored / aged or if it was intended to be consumed as soon as practical/possible.  I have not found an answer yet.  

 

 I belong to a small stock investment group that is made up of former coworkers.  Pre-COVID we held meetings at each others house and the host provided the wine.  For a couple of months we pulled a "blind taste test" where the bottles were concealed and every one was asked to pick the one that was their favorite and then we unvield them and discussed.  It was interesting to see the results.  Keep in mind most of these wines were in the $15 - $40 a bottle range, although I did sneak in a $90 bottle that everyone ended up picking as the best, which surprised me. 

 

 So back to the topic, 90% of the time I ask the sommelier in Luminae to pick what he thinks will go good with what I've ordered, as long as it's red - no white, unless it is champage, and no blush/rose.  Do I think that Conundrum taste better than Morpho Helena - yes, absolutely.  But I'd also take most any of the wines on the Premium Package over any on the Classic Package. 

  

 

 

I was in a wine forum on Reddit.  I could not figure out of it was educational or pretentious.  
 

I do not drink aged Chardonnay or Pinot Noir.

 

I once did a taste test of champagne.  I tried $200 bottles and decided I’m happy with $7 Prosecco or $15 sparkling from New Mexico or $60 Veuve Clicquot.  The wine forum hated me for that.

[NMTraveller]

8 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I was in a wine forum on Reddit.  I could not figure out of it was educational or pretentious.  
 

I do not drink aged Chardonnay or Pinot Noir.

 

I once did a taste test of champagne.  I tried $200 bottles and decided I’m happy with $7 Prosecco or $15 sparkling from New Mexico or $60 Veuve Clicquot.  The wine forum hated me for that.

@zitsky

 

I have some 2020 Napa cabs I can donate to the cause. 🤣  The $15 sparkling wine from NM is $10 in NM and now $20 elsewhere.  Ouch...Champagne is your friend.

Edited July 13 by NMTraveller

[NMTraveller]

14 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

It really helps if you buy your wine from a wine shop that knows their stuff, or can do tastings. We have one of those nearby. That's where I get my recommendations on aging versus drinking now.

 

Absent any other knowledge, retail price is an imperfect indicator. If it's under $15, drink it now. If you don't like it young, it probably won't get better. Most aging discussions are for heavier reds. Bordeaux blends (cab sav, merlot, cab franc, Petite Verdot), Malbec, Zinfandel, Nebbiolo, etc. If it's one of those or a blend in the $25-50 range it's a good bet (absent other knowledge of the wine) you should drink it in 3-5 years; it may be fine now, which is a good reason to buy two bottles. $50-75 or so figure 5-7 years or so. A good structured red in the $75-100 range will probably peak around 10 years. And somewhere in that price range you probably want to know more about the wine and recommendations for aging. I've forgotten a few that went out to 14-15 years and been amazing, and a couple that weren't. And most never make it to "peak". Unless it's one from a club where I have more than one bottle of the same wine and vintage.

 

Barolo, IMHO, needs time regardless of price. New World Pinot Noir is probably a max 5 year wine in most cases (some can go longer, but if you're not creating a library, just drink it). Old World Pinot Noir, the Premier Cru and Grand Cru of Burgundy, can cellar for years, maybe decades.

 

Most of what's sold on the ships was meant to be drunk soon. Some of it wasn't, and people will pay $800 (or more, haven't looked lately) for a 2019 Opus One (current release; no 2020 vintage because of the fires) and believe that's how it should taste. Or hate it because it's harsh and tannic and wonder what the fuss is about. That's why things like Caymus are popular on the ships. It's made to be very consistent from year to year and to be drinkable almost immediately. As opposed to their Special Selection which is about 3X as expensive, varies year to year, and ages beautifully. 

 

And for the record, there's a LOT of great white wine out there! And some amazing rose as well. Just not a lot of it on cruise ships...

Pretty much agree.  For all of our NAPA tastings the aged cabs tasted smoother...Perhaps a subtle difference but worthwhile.

 

They were in the $100 per bottle range.

 

Edited July 13 by NMTraveller

[NMTraveller]

17 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I was in a wine forum on Reddit.  I could not figure out of it was educational or pretentious.  
 

I do not drink aged Chardonnay or Pinot Noir.

 

I once did a taste test of champagne.  I tried $200 bottles and decided I’m happy with $7 Prosecco or $15 sparkling from New Mexico or $60 Veuve Clicquot.  The wine forum hated me for that.

No one should have to drink Chardonnay ...  Not my wine ...🤣  I try so hard to like Chardonay but it is not working out ... 🤣

Edited July 13 by NMTraveller

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 I hope you did that with a nice glass of aged dark rum or bourbon? 

 

 

It was a glass of Chateau Montelena Reisling that caused them not to go on strike 🤣

[George C]

4 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Pretty much agree.  For all of our NAPA tastings the aged cabs tasted smoother...

 

They were in the $100 per bottle range.

 

I am a huge Napa fan . We do lots of wine dinners at Ruth Chris, next one in two weeks features Caymus vineyards. I knew nothing about wine 30 something years ago , but when I got engaged the company we worked for took us to lunch and they were all into wines so they kept ordering hundred dollar bottles, and this was 35 years ago. I also like most wines from Knights valley.

[zitsky]

11 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

@zitsky

 

I have some 2020 Napa cabs I can donate to the cause. 🤣  The $15 sparkling wine from NM is $10 in NM and now $20 elsewhere.  Ouch...Champagne is your friend.

A friend is hosting a Provence themed dinner party tomorrow but hasn’t even picked up a bottle of Provence rosé.  Can you believe it?

 

Yes champagne is my friend but my doctor isn’t happy about my blood sugar so I’m cutting back a bit.

[canderson]

44 minutes ago, markeb said:

And for the record, there's a LOT of great white wine out there! And some amazing rose as well. Just not a lot of it on cruise ships...

Had the head sommelier on Silver Dawn produce a 20 year old bottle of a Riesling Auslese whose structure was still holding it together (great acidity to accompany the sugar) that was in the process of doing that funky and wonderful conversion they go through before they head for a final downhill run.  A long cellared Auslese is unobtanium on most cruise ships.  Most cruise lines don't  want to tie up money for that long on anything but a few rare reds.

[DaKahuna]

11 hours ago, markeb said:

It really helps if you buy your wine from a wine shop that knows their stuff, or can do tastings. We have one of those nearby. That's where I get my recommendations on aging versus drinking now.

 

 Thank you for the detailed response.  

 

 We belong to 868 Estate Vineyards in Hillsboro and have enjoyed some of their wines but they are all, that I have been able to determine, meant to be consumed in the 2 -5 year range.  

 

 I have been drinking less wine at home lately and we have not been dining out as often as we use to now that I am retired.  I have determined that here are too many wines in my wine rack and have stopped purchasing any more for the time being until I can make my way through what I have now.  

 

 Cruising has introduced me to a lot of wines I would not otherwise had the pleasure of tasting and it has been enjoyable.  

 

[canderson]

12 hours ago, markeb said:

Barolo, IMHO, needs time regardless of price.

True enough.  Seems like a lot of big wines made from Nebbiolo need a few years to take the edges off.  I was happy to find that X was providing one of my favorites - 2016 Michele Chiaro Cerequio - on our last cruise with them.  Will be interested to see what vintage they have on this next cruise.  All of the recent ones have been outstanding.

 

[NMTraveller]

On 7/7/2024 at 6:39 PM, markeb said:

 

Didn't see it either. Far Niente (EnRoute sub brand) 2022 Northern Spy is $95/bottle from the winery. Not seeing it on Total Wine's national shipping list. That's probably a better version than I've had in the past. Northern Spy is a named vineyard in the Russian River AVA. Probably a little young, but Pinot Noir (other than Grand/Premier Cru from Burgundy) tends to drink well young.

 

"The 2022 Northern Spy Vineyard Pinot Noir opens with captivating aromas of strawberry shortcake, Rooibos tea, cardamom, and bergamot. The bold palate features lively acidity and stewed red fruit, before leading to a long, lingering finish with notes of strawberry and potpourri."

 

https://enroutewinery.farniente.com/wines/2022-enroute-northern-spy-vineyard-pinot-noir

 

Perhaps this one?  For $45 at Costco it agrees with my taste buds and is a good wine. Les Pommiers.

Edited July 13 by NMTraveller

[DaKahuna]

 I just opened to enjoy with tonight's dinner a Wente 2018 Petit Shiraz.  I had one glass and it was very good.  I'll finish it in the next two nights. 

 

[NMTraveller]

On 7/12/2024 at 6:40 PM, DaKahuna said:

 

 I hope you did that with a nice glass of aged dark rum or bourbon? 

 

 

What would be recommendations for bourbon?

[zitsky]

18 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

What would be recommendations for bourbon?

I like Maker’s Mark but I am a scotch drinker.  I think it’s not considered the best?  It’s a little sweet.

[Folsomdoc]

Recently on Apex I was pleased to find one of my favorite bourbons at Craft Social. It is Rabbit Hole Dareinger which is aged in sherry casks. Delicious neat or over a large rock. $2 over the premium package and well worth it.

[zitsky]

30 minutes ago, Folsomdoc said:

Recently on Apex I was pleased to find one of my favorite bourbons at Craft Social. It is Rabbit Hole Dareinger which is aged in sherry casks. Delicious neat or over a large rock. $2 over the premium package and well worth it.

Can you describe it to someone like me who just drinks Maker’s Mark, which I find a bit sweet?  I prefer scotch in sherry casks.

[Folsomdoc]

I’m not good at that but here is a review: https://www.breakingbourbon.com/review/rabbit-hole-dareringer

[canderson]

1 hour ago, Folsomdoc said:

Recently on Apex I was pleased to find one of my favorite bourbons at Craft Social. It is Rabbit Hole Dareinger which is aged in sherry casks. Delicious neat or over a large rock. $2 over the premium package and well worth it.

I suspect that's because of this ... did you give it a try?

 

[Folsomdoc]

Did not see this on our cruise but sure would have indulged if i had!

[George C]

14 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 I just opened to enjoy with tonight's dinner a Wente 2018 Petit Shiraz.  I had one glass and it was very good.  I'll finish it in the next two nights. 

 

Our favorite restaurant just added Napa Cabernet Post and Beam , we have had a bottle of this last night and on our last few visits. 

[DaKahuna]

13 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

What would be recommendations for bourbon?

 

 I normally look for Woodford Double Oaked, Blanton's, Angels Envy, or Maker's Mark, in that order.  Basel Hayden is another I like. 

 

[canderson]

15 minutes ago, DaKahuna said:

 

 I normally look for Woodford Double Oaked, Blanton's, Angels Envy, or Maker's Mark, in that order.  Basel Hayden is another I like. 

 

I think you'd really like the lineup at one of our local restaurants:

Bourbon Whiskey

Angel’s Envy, Port Wine Barrels, Kentucky

$11.00

 

Barrell New Year 2023, Kentucky

$21.00

 

Blanton’s Original, Single Barrel, Kentucky

$16.00

 

Bowman Brothers, Small Batch, Virginia

$9.00

 

Buffalo Trace, Kentucky

$9.00

 

Eagle Rare 10yr, Kentucky

$10.00

 

E.H. Taylor, Jr. Small Batch, Kentucky

$13.00

 

Elijah Craig Small Batch, Kentucky

$9.00

 

Four Roses, Single Barrel, Kentucky

$13.00

 

Four Roses, Small Batch, Kentucky

$10.00

 

Henry McKenna 10yr, Single Barrel, Kentucky, Bottled-in-Bond

$16.00

 

Jack Daniel’s Bonded, Tennessee, #1 Whisky of the Year 2022

$9.00

 

Jim Beam, 225th Anniv., Kentucky

$5.00

 

Larceny, Small Batch, Kentucky

$8.00

 

Maker's Mark, Kentucky

$7.00

 

Mashbuild, Tawny Port Cask, Colorado

$9.00

 

Pinhook, Bourbon Heist, Kentucky

$8.00

 

W. L. Weller 12 year, Kentucky

$18.00

 

W. L. Weller Special Reserve, Kentucky

$12.00

[George C]

29 minutes ago, canderson said:

I think you'd really like the lineup at one of our local restaurants:

Bourbon Whiskey

Angel’s Envy, Port Wine Barrels, Kentucky

$11.00

 

Barrell New Year 2023, Kentucky

$21.00

 

Blanton’s Original, Single Barrel, Kentucky

$16.00

 

Bowman Brothers, Small Batch, Virginia

$9.00

 

Buffalo Trace, Kentucky

$9.00

 

Eagle Rare 10yr, Kentucky

$10.00

 

E.H. Taylor, Jr. Small Batch, Kentucky

$13.00

 

Elijah Craig Small Batch, Kentucky

$9.00

 

Four Roses, Single Barrel, Kentucky

$13.00

 

Four Roses, Small Batch, Kentucky

$10.00

 

Henry McKenna 10yr, Single Barrel, Kentucky, Bottled-in-Bond

$16.00

 

Jack Daniel’s Bonded, Tennessee, #1 Whisky of the Year 2022

$9.00

 

Jim Beam, 225th Anniv., Kentucky

$5.00

 

Larceny, Small Batch, Kentucky

$8.00

 

Maker's Mark, Kentucky

$7.00

 

Mashbuild, Tawny Port Cask, Colorado

$9.00

 

Pinhook, Bourbon Heist, Kentucky

$8.00

 

W. L. Weller 12 year, Kentucky

$18.00

 

W. L. Weller Special Reserve, Kentucky

$12.00

Your restaurant has a nice selection with reasonable prices. What city is this restaurant, we will be in Denver area Labor Day weekend.

Edited July 14 by George C