Good reminder not to share your travel info on the internet

[BlerkOne]

Just now, aborgman said:

 

Apparently she has - latest I've seen is the Florida AG is investigating.

 

...and this is not extortion under US federal law, or any US states law.

Hopefully they are investigating her 

[aborgman]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

A new level of absurdity. You can't file a class action suit - it takes a judge to grant class action status. She was dumb enough to post sensitive information on the Internet and is now asking others to do the same? Well, there are a lot of stupid people out there 

 

Yes, an individual CAN file a class action lawsuit 

 

It takes a judge to grant class action status - which happens AFTER someone files a class action lawsuit.

Edited June 13 by aborgman

[cruisinqt]

34 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Carnival tried to meet her halfway by giving her 2 inside cabins or 10k in cruise credit... If she would go on social media and  publicly state that Carnival positively resolved the issue.

 

 

 

 

 

If I gave someone 10k when I wasn’t required to do so, I would expect a thank you and a nice comment too, it’s only common courtesy and it shows good manners. But Carnival didn’t even ask for that much from her. If you listened to the conversation (which she recorded and put on TikTok), the only request Carnival made was to say, and I quote “Carnival resolved the issue.” No gushing write up, no words of appreciation, just a simple sentence saying it was resolved. That’s not asking much. 

[cruisinqt]

40 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

A new level of absurdity. You can't file a class action suit - it takes a judge to grant class action status. She was dumb enough to post sensitive information on the Internet and is now asking others to do the same? Well, there are a lot of stupid people out there 

I completely agree. She has stated that she will continue to, as she puts it, “put pressure on Carnival until they cave.” So she intends to continue making defamatory videos about Carnival because she thinks it will make them reimburse her. And she expects “a full apology and to be completely reimbursed for the cost of the entire vacation,” not just the cabin she paid for. And in her latest video just posted, she says that by updating their website with a message that warns cruisers to not share their personal information with others, Carnival is admitting fault. She’s really digging herself deep and opening herself to legal actions. 

[aborgman]

5 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

 So she intends to continue making defamatory videos about Carnival because she thinks it will make them reimburse her.

 

Her videos (while making her look like a nutjob) are not legally defamatory.

 

To be defamation requires the following:

 

1) a false statement purporting to be fact (opinions, no matter how negative do not count)
2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person

3) The person making the statement committed at least negligence

4) The victim has to be able to show damages

 

If she is telling the truth and/or speaking opinion - it CAN'T be defamation. The truth is an absolute defense.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Yes, an individual CAN file a class action lawsuit 

 

It takes a judge to grant class action status - which happens AFTER someone files a class action lawsuit.

Under specific circumstances, none of which exist. In Florida, it would take 40 equally stupid people (or dishonest) to be considered for class action status.

[BlerkOne]

42 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Her videos (while making her look like a nutjob) are not legally defamatory.

 

To be defamation requires the following:

 

1) a false statement purporting to be fact (opinions, no matter how negative do not count)
2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person

3) The person making the statement committed at least negligence

4) The victim has to be able to show damages

 

If she is telling the truth and/or speaking opinion - it CAN'T be defamation. The truth is an absolute defense.

An opinion can be defamation.

 

https://www.minclaw.com/opinion-defense/

 

 

[cruisinqt]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Her videos (while making her look like a nutjob) are not legally defamatory.

 

To be defamation requires the following:

 

1) a false statement purporting to be fact (opinions, no matter how negative do not count)
2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person

3) The person making the statement committed at least negligence

4) The victim has to be able to show damages

 

If she is telling the truth and/or speaking opinion - it CAN'T be defamation. The truth is an absolute defense.

Her false statements:
1. She stated that Carnival told her to share her countdown tracker, then when she shared it she was a victim of identity theft, making it look like Carnival is putting their customers at risk. That’s not true. She shared a picture of herself logged into her planner with all her info on display.

2. She stated that Carnival gave away her cabin to someone important because it’s such a sought after cabin, making it look like Carnival steals guests cabins. That’s not true. 
3. She continues to purport that Carnival sends weekly emails that includes your countdown tracker (which has private information on it) putting you at risk of identity theft. That’s not true either. The countdown tracker has no private info on it and it’s only found in the hub app. 
4. She is also saying “Carnival is lying, no one stole my identity.” If Carnival has proof of the identity theft as they claim, then that’s a lie too. 
She has put these claims in videos published on social media for the world to see. And I’ve seen tons of comments by people stating they are canceling their Carnival cruise and never sailing with Carnival again because of her experience. So there are definitely damages. Do I think Carnival will sue her for defamation or slander? No. But would they have a case against her? Most likely, but I’m not a lawyer so that’s up for debate. I just think she’s making some assumptions and presenting them as fact and that could come back on her. 

[aborgman]

51 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

An opinion can be defamation.

 

https://www.minclaw.com/opinion-defense/

 

 

 

Yes, but it requires the inference of a defamatory fact.

 

The opinion itself isn't defamation, the inferred fact is.

 

 

 

 

[cruisinqt]

54 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Under specific circumstances, none of which exist. In Florida, it would take 40 equally stupid people (or dishonest) to be considered for class action status.

I just did the check in for our upcoming cruise and I read through the contract. I couldn’t believe there was a clause about class action lawsuits. I guess I need to read it more thoroughly from now on. Here’s what it says:

15. CLASS ACTION WAIVER:

THIS CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR THE EXCLUSIVE RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES THROUGH INDIVIDUAL LEGAL ACTION AND SUPERSEDES ANY LAW ENTITLING GUEST TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. EVEN IF APPLICABLE LAW PROVIDES OTHERWISE, GUEST AGREES THAT ANY ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT AGAINST CARRIER WHATSOEVER SHALL BE LITIGATED BY GUEST INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF ANY CLASS OR AS PART OF A CLASS ACTION. GUEST EXPRESSLY AGREES TO WAIVE AUTHORITY TO ARBITRATE CLAIMS ON A CLASS ACTION BASIS. 

So even if she wants to do a class action lawsuit, she can’t because she signed this contract. No wonder she’s going online raging against Carnival, I doubt any lawyer will want to deal with this. 

[aborgman]

10 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

Her false statements:
1. She stated that Carnival told her to share her countdown tracker, then when she shared it she was a victim of identity theft, making it look like Carnival is putting their customers at risk. That’s not true. She shared a picture of herself logged into her planner with all her info on display.

2. She stated that Carnival gave away her cabin to someone important because it’s such a sought after cabin, making it look like Carnival steals guests cabins. That’s not true. 
3. She continues to purport that Carnival sends weekly emails that includes your countdown tracker (which has private information on it) putting you at risk of identity theft. That’s not true either. The countdown tracker has no private info on it and it’s only found in the hub app. 
4. She is also saying “Carnival is lying, no one stole my identity.” If Carnival has proof of the identity theft as they claim, then that’s a lie too. 
She has put these claims in videos published on social media for the world to see. And I’ve seen tons of comments by people stating they are canceling their Carnival cruise and never sailing with Carnival again because of her experience. So there are definitely damages. Do I think Carnival will sue her for defamation or slander? No. But would they have a case against her? Most likely, but I’m not a lawyer so that’s up for debate. I just think she’s making some assumptions and presenting them as fact and that could come back on her. 

 

 

That potentially satisfies one of the four requirements. You have to demonstrate all 4.

 

...and Carnival, as a large public corporation, likely falls under the "public figure" defamation rules - which require proof of actual malice, not just negligence.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, cruisinqt said:

So even if she wants to do a class action lawsuit, she can’t because she signed this contract. No wonder she’s going online raging against Carnival, I doubt any lawyer will want to deal with this. 

She would have to get the Carnival contract tossed first. I don't think any lawyer would be desperate enough to try in this case.

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

I just did the check in for our upcoming cruise and I read through the contract. I couldn’t believe there was a clause about class action lawsuits. I guess I need to read it more thoroughly from now on. Here’s what it says:

 

15. CLASS ACTION WAIVER:

THIS CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR THE EXCLUSIVE RESOLUTION OF DISPUTES THROUGH INDIVIDUAL LEGAL ACTION AND SUPERSEDES ANY LAW ENTITLING GUEST TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. EVEN IF APPLICABLE LAW PROVIDES OTHERWISE, GUEST AGREES THAT ANY ARBITRATION OR LAWSUIT AGAINST CARRIER WHATSOEVER SHALL BE LITIGATED BY GUEST INDIVIDUALLY AND NOT AS A MEMBER OF ANY CLASS OR AS PART OF A CLASS ACTION. GUEST EXPRESSLY AGREES TO WAIVE AUTHORITY TO ARBITRATE CLAIMS ON A CLASS ACTION BASIS. 

So even if she wants to do a class action lawsuit, she can’t because she signed this contract. No wonder she’s going online raging against Carnival, I doubt any lawyer will want to deal with this. 

 

It's hard to say whether that provision would hold... If it's not "naked" (there is an arbitration clause in the contract) then it almost certainly would stand.

 

If it's naked, it'll depend on Florida law regarding class waivers (some states don't allow them).

 

 

[aborgman]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

She would have to get the Carnival contract tossed first. I don't think any lawyer would be desperate enough to try in this case.

 

Cruise line contracts of adhesion have regularly been found by courts to have invalid/unenforceable provisions.

 

Class action waivers, as long as they aren't naked, are almost always enforceable though.

[BlerkOne]

18 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Cruise line contracts of adhesion have regularly been found by courts to have invalid/unenforceable provisions.

 

Class action waivers, as long as they aren't naked, are almost always enforceable though.

No lawyer is going to touch this. Please let us know when she finds one stupid enough to try.

 

Carnival keeps a herd of lawyers employed and regularly updates the ticket contract. Not that long ago, there were many changes incorporated, no doubt from lessons learned.

[cruisinqt]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

She would have to get the Carnival contract tossed first. I don't think any lawyer would be desperate enough to try in this case.

I agree. She’s stated that most lawyers want cases where’s there’s a physical injury. So she contacted the Attorney General and that’s where I think she got the idea of a class action lawsuit which is an uphill battle. 

[john91498]

a lot of keyboard lawyers in this thread...

 

hope y'all having fun 😎

[vadersprincess12]

It's a shame this happened, but a lesson learned.  Another good reason not to post your travel plans is you're leaving yourself open to having your house burglarized since people know you aren't home.

[nelblu]

Frustrating and sad to have something like the story below to happen

 

A Family Lost $15,000 Cruise Booking Due to Identity Theft (fodors.com)

[DaniDanielle]

How is Carnival at fault if they posted their booking information?

[voyager70]

6 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

How is Carnival at fault if they posted their booking information?

My thoughts exactly 

[smokeybandit]

Is it really theft if you give it away?

[nelblu]

12 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

How is Carnival at fault if they posted their booking information?

I'm assuming that a cash refund was issued, and the perps got the moneys.  I know that Royal policy is to credit any moneys due to the credit card that was originally used.

Edited June 19 by nelblu

[la_croisiere_s'amuse]

Oh boy. 🙄 I heard about this story when it happened, but this bit is new to me:

 

  ".... she said that Carnival has updated their website to say that customers shouldn’t share their booking number—she believes it to be an admission of guilt."

 

 🤦‍♀️ 🤦‍♀️  🤦‍♀️

[jennellen]

It got canceled within week or less of sailing, I believe, so I don't think there was any refund or at least a significant one.  She shouldn't have shared her booking number.  But it should also take more than just knowing a booking number to be able to cancel or make any modifications to a booking.