Silversea Shenanigans Onboard Silver Muse

[UKCruiseJeff]

tnm,

 

To a really collectively myopic management, the thing that they could measure was the $30 and whether such a highly critical level of expenditure could be entrusted to anyone on board who they clearly consider incapable of such authority. The loss of your future and other loyal and new customers’ future revenue who read these things in disbelief and bewilderment is not in their range of focus ergo to them it doesn’t exist. To them it is QED.

 

Jeff

[Observer]

1 hour ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Excellent post but just wondering, which ship?  I am aware of only 2 restaurants that carry a surcharge.

 

Chef's Table on the Nova class ships carries a hefty ($180 pp?) surcharge.

[ChucktownSteve]

3 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

You really do understand intuitively a lot about extraordinary customer satisfaction.   

 

If I may I’d like to add a couple. It’s about the relationship between speed and graciousness for want of a better description and the satisfaction of the customer and their future loyalty.

 

Firstly the faster you resolve a problem  the cheaper the resolution and the happier the customer will be.  To the extent that is extremely likely  that they will become even more loyal than if the event causing disappointment hadn’t happened in the first place.  “Something went wrong and it was put right immediately.  I can trust these people and will give them my loyalty and recommend them to others.”

 

Another by-product about rapid resolution is that customers become more angry the more unjust resistance they are subjected to and the longer the resolution - if ever - it takes.  This means that “cost” of satisfactory resolution (if satisfaction is ever then possible or attainable) gets more resource and cash intensive. The costs and loyalty costs then becomes exponentially expensive.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Many business people fear facing an unhappy customer thus put it off or blame others. My experience of handling the problem as soon as possible did make the resolution much easier and did retain the customer.  It's always easier and cheaper to keep a customer than replace them.

 

My experience at Celebrity (which I believe rolled downhill from RCG) was that they believe there's an endless pipeline of customers so they don't need to care.  That attitude will eventually catch up with them. Then it's too late to turn the ship around.  They can't get away from the things that made the company successful.  Bean counters never understood customer service. It's all about the Benjamin. That separates the heart of the company from their consumer.

[UKCruiseJeff]

39 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Jeff,

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Many business people fear facing an unhappy customer thus put it off or blame others. My experience of handling the problem as soon as possible did make the resolution much easier and did retain the customer.  It's always easier and cheaper to keep a customer than replace them.

 

My experience at Celebrity (which I believe rolled downhill from RCG) was that they believe there's an endless pipeline of customers so they don't need to care.  That attitude will eventually catch up with them. Then it's too late to turn the ship around.  They can't get away from the things that made the company successful.  Bean counters never understood customer service. It's all about the Benjamin. That separates the heart of the company from their consumer.

 

 

 

I admire your business ethos and simply say you deserve to be successful, and you clearly are because you can afford the good things of life. I know you  like the anecdote so this was one of my first lessons about owning up quickly and putting things right graciously. 

 

The terrible thing about life is that one learns the largest and most valuable lessons in life only when you stumble falteringly on accidentally doing something right and you find that it turns out much better than what you feared because you did something honourable very quickly. 

 

In relation to the lessons in this thread, when I started the CS consultancy we were totally reliant on printed/paper surveys sent to hundreds of thousands of surveys monthly. It was a nightmare volume of effort and data.  All had to be entered into computers and freeform comments coded by hand.  Eventually I worked out the technology of putting surveys online and that was life changing but a completely different story.  

 

One of our early clients was “the oldest bank in the world” based in Italy and as our fees and costs meant we only could then only specialise solely in “very high value relationships” for our clients.   We had loads of meetings and a suitable survey was thrashed out and I had been successful in pinning ownership of every part of the results of every question on a VP to be held totally accountable for the results  which we would be reporting back and prescribing measurable improvement plans was an essential component of the usefulness and success of our programme.

 

After all that work, the surveys were all sent out to all over the world in dozens of languages, and we started receiving them back.  I took a few and read them.  To my absolute horror, I realised that what had been sent out was an earlier version of the survey which was different to the one the board had approved.  I cannot explain how I felt. The same four letter was repeated many times.  On closer scrutiny it was clear that we’d argued and debated and spent hours making only minor changes but it was still not the right one sent.

 

I called the CEO and explained what I’d done.  I told him there would be no fee but we’d complete the project just the same for free and I promised to do better next time.  The was a long terribly painful silence and I heard the voice suddenly roar with laughter and say in approximate English “Jeff you are an idiot.  We wasted far too much time over-finessing and your first version I always thought the best one.  Charge the fee and push on. Next lunch on me”. 

 

It taught me both how to deal with problems and how they taught me to be an excellent customer. They remained excellent  clients and friends to when I retired the business. And we had much good pasta and on one occasion on 801 on Whisper.  It was a business trip you understand 😉

 

Sorry once again for the ramblings. Best wishes in your future business life. 

 

Jeff

Edited Sunday at 03:24 PM by UKCruiseJeff

[ChucktownSteve]

4 minutes ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

 

I called the CEO and explained what I’d done.  I told him there would be no fee but we’d complete the project just the same for free and I promised to do better next time.

 

Jeff

The best thing you did was confess the error prior to your customer discovering it!  I've done the same with similar results.  People appreciate unanticipated ethics.

 

I sold my last company in 2011.  I've been giving back and volunteering to my communities since.  The more I do, the better it makes me feel.

[Gourmet Gal]

1 hour ago, tnm6217 said:

Like initiating arbitration and requiring their corporate legal department to spend time preparing for and conducting an informal settlement conference and possibly full arbitration over an incredibly small matter. I'm very curious to see how this arbitration process plays out, but I'm certainly not convinced that it will be made right!

I understand your dissatisfaction with how the champagne issue and the spa pricing issues were handled but what kind of “settlement” should one expect?  I’m sure you have no desire to cruise SS again so a future cruise credit would be worthless.  

[Gourmet Gal]

1 hour ago, Observer said:

 

Chef's Table on the Nova class ships carries a hefty ($180 pp?) surcharge.

Right, so that’s 3 with a surcharge on the Nova Class.  Which are the other 2 restaurants that carry a surcharge?  

[tnm6217]

5 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

I understand your dissatisfaction with how the champagne issue and the spa pricing issues were handled but what kind of “settlement” should one expect?  I’m sure you have no desire to cruise SS again so a future cruise credit would be worthless.

@Gourmet Gal Fair question! I’m requesting monetary compensation, not a future cruise credit. I want corporate to address their unwillingness to honor the stated VS terms and conditions. I’m an attorney, so it’s not an inconvenience for me to pursue this further. I’m hoping the legal department wasn’t aware of what was communicated to the fleet regarding the upgraded Champagne, and I’d be very happy if my notice of disagreement ends up correcting the situation fleet-wide so other guests don’t have to deal with this. 

[UKCruiseJeff]

24 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

The best thing you did was confess the error prior to your customer discovering it!  I've done the same with similar results.  People appreciate unanticipated ethics.

 

I sold my last company in 2011.  I've been giving back and volunteering to my communities since.  The more I do, the better it makes me feel.

 

🙂

 

Being seen unexpectedly as a reliable honourable and honest recipient of your hard earned cash is one of the most valuable components of converting what was originally purely a commercial business relationship into long-term partnerships based on the complete confidence based on seemingly rare shared ethical values which you can rely on.  

 

It sometimes even develops and becomes friendships and in extreme cases lunches with lots of alcohol and then life becomes sweet. 

 

Jeff

[gnome12]

28 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Right, so that’s 3 with a surcharge on the Nova Class.  Which are the other 2 restaurants that carry a surcharge?  

No it isn’t 3. What @Observer called the Chef’s Table is La Dame. The other upcharge restaurant is Kaiseki.

[Observer]

1 minute ago, gnome12 said:

No it isn’t 3. What @Observer called the Chef’s Table is La Dame. The other upcharge restaurant is Kaiseki.

Sorry, but Chef’s Table is distinct from La Dame. 

[UKCruiseJeff]

13 minutes ago, tnm6217 said:

@Gourmet Gal Fair question! I’m requesting monetary compensation, not a future cruise credit. I want corporate to address their unwillingness to honor the stated VS terms and conditions. I’m an attorney, so it’s not an inconvenience for me to pursue this further. I’m hoping the legal department wasn’t aware of what was communicated to the fleet regarding the upgraded Champagne, and I’d be very happy if my notice of disagreement ends up correcting the situation fleet-wide so other guests don’t have to deal with this. 

 

You will of gathered I totally understand “where you are coming from” and I’m energetically in your corner.

 

However I have learned that giving time and then pursuing stuff needs three main components.  

 

Firstly is there a principle that’s worthy to pursue, then if pursued is the chance of success sufficiently favourable and finally if the result goes your way is the payback worth the hassle.  As you get older two out of free isn’t worthwhile. Is the last one really worth it.  

 

Let them win your battle but lose their war.  The best thing I learned late in life is as time seems to be running out it is sometimes better to simply shrug.  But then you are 40’s and I’m not. 

 

🙂

 

Jeff

[gnome12]

2 minutes ago, Observer said:

Sorry, but Chef’s Table is distinct from La Dame. 

I stand corrected. All the discussions about the $180 upcharge I read here referred to La Dame, but you are correct; that charge is for S.A.L.T. Chef’s Table. On the Dawn it was called S.A.L.T. Kitchen and did not have an upcharge. 

[Gourmet Gal]

40 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

I stand corrected. All the discussions about the $180 upcharge I read here referred to La Dame, but you are correct; that charge is for S.A.L.T. Chef’s Table. On the Dawn it was called S.A.L.T. Kitchen and did not have an upcharge. 

The S.A.L.T Chef’s Table is an additional venue on Nova Class only.  There is still S.A.L.T Kitchen on Nova without a surcharge. Two different decks.

[gnome12]

2 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

The S.A.L.T Chef’s Table is an additional venue on Nova Class only.  There is still S.A.L.T Kitchen on Nova without a surcharge. Two different decks.

Ah! Now I see. 

[Port Power]

5 hours ago, tnm6217 said:

5 hours ago, tnm6217 said:

 

Yes! At no point did anyone try to actually resolve the issue. I heard a lot of "well, that's what we were told" with no offer of a solution. 

 

 

 

 

I am still amazed at the lack of action you received.  On my cruise, I did receive my upgraded bottle of Laurent-Perrier champagne. I received a phone call from the Customer Service Manager who acknowledged the confusion and mixed messages in relation to this matching of status levels, and his apologies for the delay in receiving said champagne.  Ali’s response is exactly what should happen.  I felt even more like an appreciated guest, and was extremely happy with the ship’s response.  RCG head office, read and learn!

[tfred]

4 hours ago, tnm6217 said:

@Gourmet Gal Fair question! I’m requesting monetary compensation, not a future cruise credit. I want corporate to address their unwillingness to honor the stated VS terms and conditions. I’m an attorney, so it’s not an inconvenience for me to pursue this further. I’m hoping the legal department wasn’t aware of what was communicated to the fleet regarding the upgraded Champagne, and I’d be very happy if my notice of disagreement ends up correcting the situation fleet-wide so other guests don’t have to deal with this. 

somewhere in the Contract of Carriage  is more than likely a clause that says SSea isnt responsible for anything no matter what is indicated due to "whatever"   Probably limits their liability as well

 

[UKCruiseJeff]

9 minutes ago, tfred said:

somewhere in the Contract of Carriage  is more than likely a clause that says SSea isnt responsible for anything no matter what is indicated due to "whatever"   Probably limits their liability as well

 

 

Such clauses are only enforceable in specific geographics, the USA being a major example.  These clauses are not enforceable in the UK, EU etc and in others, although SS does not behave as though they accept this. 

 

Jeff

 

 

[DavyWavey70]

49 minutes ago, Port Power said:

 

 

I am still amazed at the lack of action you received.  On my cruise, I did receive my upgraded bottle of Laurent-Perrier champagne. I received a phone call from the Customer Service Manager who acknowledged the confusion and mixed messages in relation to this matching of status levels, and his apologies for the delay in receiving said champagne.  Ali’s response is exactly what should happen.  I felt even more like an appreciated guest, and was extremely happy with the ship’s response.  RCG head office, read and learn!

 

That's hit the nail on the head PP. It's not the fact that mistakes happen, they always will, but it's what is done to put it right that really shows you the competence/ability/integrity/ethos/skill/understanding/professionalism of the company you are dealing with. I Had major problems on my first SS cruise in 2018 in a very broken cabin on the recently stretched Spirit. They missed every single opportunity to fix anything or make amends. We were lied to repeatedly and couldn't get anything resolved. Things went even further downhill after we returned. I'm very grateful for tnm6217 taking them on, not simply over a bottle of Champagne, this is much bigger than that and I do hope they learn a lesson but I doubt it.  

[ChucktownSteve]

1 hour ago, tfred said:

somewhere in the Contract of Carriage  is more than likely a clause that says SSea isnt responsible for anything no matter what is indicated due to "whatever"   Probably limits their liability as well

 

And that's exactly how corporate wins the battle but looses the war (customer). When a company looses a customer, they will wait a period of time and try the company again; maybe a few years down the road.  However when they do, if there is another misstep, that customer will probably be lost forever.  

 

The bottom line is I don't believe RCG gives a rat's patootie as long as the pipeline remains full from the other brands and new cruisers. This is the purpose of the supposed status match program.

Edited Sunday at 09:04 PM by ChucktownSteve

[tnm6217]

3 hours ago, tfred said:

somewhere in the Contract of Carriage  is more than likely a clause that says SSea isnt responsible for anything no matter what is indicated due to "whatever"   Probably limits their liability as well

 

@tfred I would agree if it were the cruise itself, but the VS program has separate terms and conditions (VS T&Cs). Here is what I cited to in my notice of disagreement:

 

Silversea Loyalty Terms and Conditions, Venetian Society Loyalty Program (effective May 30, 2024), Section 4.3.a. clearly states that the only VS Excluded Benefits are: (i) Sail with Us Referral Offer, (ii) Complimentary Cruise Fare, and (iii) Milestone Recognition. Aside from the three listed VS Excluded Benefits, there is no other distinction between sailed VS Days and VS Days earned through the Loyalty Status Match Program. When RCI implemented the Loyalty Status Match Program, Silversea was bound to provide the benefits clearly stated. 

 

I won't at all be surprised if they tell me to pound sand, but I won't go quietly!

 

-Taylor

[Nachosdelux]

16 minutes ago, tnm6217 said:

 

 

I won't at all be surprised if they tell me to pound sand, but I won't go quietly!

 

-Taylor

 

I agree that their treatment was abysmal, but my guess is that they will ban you from their cruise line.  Win the battle; lose the war.  But good luck to you.

[Gourmet Gal]

Is this common that travel agents pursue arbitration with cruise lines?  I can see where they would for a client but would it make it difficult to conduct business with them in the future?  All this seems so unusual and I just have never seen an issue with a free perk be escalated to such an extent.

[UKCruiseJeff]

23 minutes ago, Nachosdelux said:

 

I agree that their treatment was abysmal, but my guess is that they will ban you from their cruise line.  Win the battle; lose the war.  But good luck to you.

 

Arguably I know, but I think tnm has already won one important battle.  

 

A short while ago before we could exchange experiences, organisations got away with no wider costly consequences for their treatment of individual customers.  More people now read these exchanges than posts. The only way that customers can coach suppliers to behave sensibly is by showing them on these pages that these things do matter and have consequences.  

 

Jeff

[DavyWavey70]

26 minutes ago, Nachosdelux said:

 

I agree that their treatment was abysmal, but my guess is that they will ban you from their cruise line.  Win the battle; lose the war.  But good luck to you.

Banning a TA/Attorney for forcing them to honour their contract might just possibly be the most stupid decision that they could ever make. I Can only imagine the publicity that could be generated by such a move.