Dumbing Down & Dressing Down: The New Cunard?

[Megabear2]

52 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Cunard's questionnaires contain direct questions about dressing up and some odd ones along with that. In an agree/disagree section, there's always one like "I enjoy dressing up to give the evening a sense of occasion." Okay, that one is easy. But it's often followed by "I would feel at home at the opera." WHAT does that mean and what do they infer from my "agree" answer? I like opera. Does that mean I like to dress up, on the assumption that going to the opera requires formal dress? (Neither the Royal Opera House nor the Met has a dress code that I've ever seen.) The questions can be slanted in a way that give the company the "data" it wants to get so they can justify a decision they're already leaning toward. 

 

Those are pretty standard questionnaires.  The ones I've recently completed for P&O/Cunard in particular are far more detailed, not tick box exercises.  You have a box to give more details on your opinion.  I've had quite a few of the ones you describe as well.

 

P&O in particular are asking quite in depth questions.

[missson1967]

3 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

That is a very fair comment and I respect that and agree the evening dress code has certainly changed and I would have been very happy to keep the standards of when we first started travelling with Cunard but, your added comment in brackets  referring to my bringing up the nasty comments when the hot and tired passengers embarking were said to be looking like customers of a perceived downmarket supermarket bears out the fact I am still astonished at the fact that's not offensive.

Well, the fact some of those previous comments were removed does tend to suggest they were deemed to be offensive by others, so it's no doubt a good thing we're not in charge of policing the acceptable v unacceptable comments!

 

Joking aside, we just don't believe any of the longstanding Cunard customers who favour a more formal approach to the evening dress code (us included), are intending to be disrespectful, condescending or discouraging to more recent or future Cunard customers who might take a more relaxed view (within reason).  As far as our posts are concerned, if any new/future customers have been discouraged by them, then we apologise.

 

We understood the OP to in effect be saying, please Cunard, don't continue to dilute the product to such an extent it is no longer the brand it has been, and thankfully still is.  We are confident most on this forum will share that hope!    

 

[Tattycoram]

My 16-year-old daughter is very much looking forward to dressing up on Cunard.  Between sales and Goodwill and clothes belonging to my grandmother, she has assembled a lovely long silk number for 20s night (perhaps more 30s . . . ), a kind of theatrical Edwardian walking skirt, some slinky black numbers . . . 

 

(Her dressing up is close to "dress up"--that is, wearing a costume--but I hope her ambitious fashion sense will bring pleasure to other oldies like me.)

[Dermotsgirl]

8 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

We dress 'well' and like a few balanced CC members don't let others' attire affect us other than to admire stand out beautiful outfits, male and female but some of the  comments on present passengers attire make me smile  Mareblu whereas I laugh at others. I have had my share of snippy retorts removed in the past too. Probably understandable as I can be very snippy with arrogance! 😀

 

If folk used the word 'changing' when lamenting the past and objecting to the changes, I would have every sympathy with their feelings and attitudes but dumbing down? No. It reeks of condescension and it's that kind of arrogance non Cunard passengers associate with Cunard when they worry 'will they fit in' if they book.

 

Answer is of course, Cunard passengers are lovely and the few diehard attitudes displayed here to the Cunard tweaks will not be translated to attitudes onboard. So wear a suit instead of full black tie on gala nights but be prepared to eat in the buffet if you don't want to pack either and don't be concerned at wearing a shirt and no jacket or tie on the other evenings.

 

 

 

 

Well said.

 

The term 'dumbing down' in relation to cruises has been doing the rounds for at least 20 years, and every time I hear it I cringe, as it there's a certain implication of superiority and looking down on people, not to mention the suggestion that any changes  are  for the benefit of the intellectually challenged who might not understand anything complicated like a formal dress code!

 

Having done several longer cruises in the years 2010 - 2019 with P&O, the formal nights seemed to come round very quickly, and I used to find myself thinking 'oh no, not ANOTHER one'!  Therefore, one a week on a 35 night cruise would be fine by me.

 

Coupled with the fact that my life is more casual after retirement, I am no longer a fan of formal nights, and they are not an important aspect of my cruise experience.

 

This may make me 'dumbed down' in the eyes of some people, but I am not afraid to be honest about how I feel

 

After some pandemic related cancellations, my first Cunard cruise is due in 2026.  I would like to reassure everyone that, although I'm 'dumb' I still know how to dress, and won't frighten any anxious Cunarders - I will fully adhere to the dress code, and so will my husband.  But the dress code is not the reason for my cruise - just a tiny part of it. (so not looking for any comments about 'perhaps Cunard is the wrong line for you) !

Edited Friday at 03:07 PM by Dermotsgirl

[exlondoner]

5 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Well said.

 

The term 'dumbing down' in relation to cruises has been doing the rounds for at least 20 years, and every time I hear it I cringe, as it there's a certain implication of superiority and looking down on people, not to mention the suggestion that any changes  are  for the benefit of the intellectually challenged who might not understand anything complicated like a formal dress code!

 

Having done several longer cruises in the years 2010 - 2019 with P&O, the formal nights seemed to come round very quickly, and I used to find myself thinking 'oh no, not ANOTHER one'!  Therefore, one a week on a 35 night cruise would be fine by me.

 

Coupled with the fact that my life is more casual after retirement, I am no longer a fan of formal nights, and they are not an important aspect of my cruise experience.

 

This may make me 'dumbed down' in the eyes of some people, but I am not afraid to be honest about how I feel

 

After some pandemic related cancellations, my first Cunard cruise is due in 2026.  I would like to reassure everyone that, although I'm 'dumb' I still know how to dress, and won't frighten any anxious Cunarders - I will fully adhere to the dress code, and so will my husband.  But the dress code is not the reason for my cruise - just a tiny part of it. (so not looking for any comments about 'perhaps Cunard is the wrong line for you) !

It is indeed strange that negative comments about changes on Cunard seem invariably to focus on the dress code. I think mine were the only comments I have seen on the lack of classical concerts on our recent voyage.

[Dermotsgirl]

8 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

It is indeed strange that negative comments about changes on Cunard seem invariably to focus on the dress code. I think mine were the only comments I have seen on the lack of classical concerts on our recent voyage.

I like a classical concert. I find them to be generally very soothing and relaxing. 

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I like a classical concert. I find them to be generally very soothing and relaxing. 

I completely agree, an excellent way to recharge after lunch, and, though they vary, often a high standard of musicianship.

[Tattycoram]

As well as appreciating "smart" attire, I appreciate:  the large library, intelligent talks on a range of subjects; the planetarium (boo hoo), classical music, literary events, Royal Shakespeare Company, etc.  Also:  quiet, no muzak-equivalent noise, tidy dining.  And:  an amateur choir at sea!  How wonderful is that!

 

These sorts of offerings are part of what has led us (including my teenager) to book our first TA.  At the moment, based only on the information from all you lovely people here, I expect we'll be pretty happy--the food might be not-as-great as we had hoped.  But I'm really looking forward to finding out for myself in about a week and a half.

Edited Friday at 03:27 PM by Tattycoram

[exlondoner]

7 minutes ago, Tattycoram said:

As well as appreciating "smart" attire, I appreciate:  the large library, intelligent talks on a range of subjects; the planetarium (boo hoo), classical music, literary events, Royal Shakespeare Company, etc.  Also:  quiet, no muzak-equivalent noise, tidy dining.  And:  an amateur choir at sea!  How wonderful is that!

 

These sorts of offerings are part of what has led us (including my teenager) to book our first TA.  At the moment, based only on the information from all you lovely people here, I expect we'll be pretty happy--the food might be not-as-great as we had hoped.  But I'm really looking forward to finding out for myself in about a week and a half.

Yes, all those things, particularly the sense of serenity. Just get to the Library as soon as you can on embarkation day. There are many passengers who love it as much as we.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Tattycoram said:

My 16-year-old daughter is very much looking forward to dressing up on Cunard.  Between sales and Goodwill and clothes belonging to my grandmother, she has assembled a lovely long silk number for 20s night (perhaps more 30s . . . ), a kind of theatrical Edwardian walking skirt, some slinky black numbers . . . 

 

(Her dressing up is close to "dress up"--that is, wearing a costume--but I hope her ambitious fashion sense will bring pleasure to other oldies like me.)

 

She's 16, she should absolutely have fun with dressing up! 

[Tattycoram]

32 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Just get to the Library as soon as you can on embarkation day.

Sadly we've been given a 3:15 embarkation for a 4 pm last boarding!

 

I'm sure we'll find something to please--and even just sitting in there with a book from home will be great.  To my daughter's dismay I might have some work to do, but I think it will be a positive pleasure to work with that view.

[Poole Boy]

6 hours ago, exlondoner said:

I think gala nights, at least in the Brit, probably do have an enhanced menu, though  as ever that depends on individual tastes. However I’m not sure there is a necessary connection with the dressing up. A lot of passengers genuinely seem to enjoy dressing up and the slightly different atmosphere that arises. I don’t think they feel it is a bit of a chore to be rewarded by tastier/more glamorous/more extravagant food.

I can still remember the days when there was a reason to dress up, usually a cocktail party.  The Captains reception on the second night, the CWC party mid way through and the senior officers party towards the end, plus the enhanced menu in the MDR. since COVID all this appears to have gone, no Captain's reception, just 1/2 a glass of some usually warm flat fizz. The CWC party can be at any time usually on a "normal" night, and I can't remember the last time I attended a senior officer party ( do they still do them ?). As for an enhanced menu in the MDR, long gone are the days of Lobster tails.  I have absolutely no problem in dressing up, but please let it be for a reason, rather than dressing up for the sake of it.

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 minutes ago, Poole Boy said:

I can still remember the days when there was a reason to dress up, usually a cocktail party.  The Captains reception on the second night, the CWC party mid way through and the senior officers party towards the end, plus the enhanced menu in the MDR. since COVID all this appears to have gone, no Captain's reception, just 1/2 a glass of some usually warm flat fizz. The CWC party can be at any time usually on a "normal" night, and I can't remember the last time I attended a senior officer party ( do they still do them ?). As for an enhanced menu in the MDR, long gone are the days of Lobster tails.  I have absolutely no problem in dressing up, but please let it be for a reason, rather than dressing up for the sake of it.

 

I don't think there's been a senior officer's party on any cruise I've taken since the restart. 

[missson1967]

6 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

I don't think there's been a senior officer's party on any cruise I've taken since the restart. 

They did have a Captain/senior officers' cocktail party (in addition to the CWC one) on QV when we were onboard recently (not that we attended either of them).

[Judyrem]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I like a classical concert. I find them to be generally very soothing and relaxing. 

I love classical concerts!  More please!

[TouchstoneFeste]

6 hours ago, exlondoner said:

The ROH certainly doesn’t, though I did once see a chap in a dinner jacket, an unwise choice on a very hot day.

The last time I was at the Met in New York, I specifically looked around to see how people were dressed. Full house, and only about 10 other men were wearing a tie. (Is that the experience at the ROH? Or do people tend to dress more formally overall?)

[D&N]

I took the "Dumbing Down" of the title and the original post to refer to Cunard's guidelines rather than a slight against passengers/customers.

 

We need no reason to dress up. Unless we have visitors staying we only eat in the evening at weekends and then we dress for dinner. Not in formal wear but something dressier than we have worn during the day. If we're out to dinner or lunch we'll dress up as much as is reasonable depending on the temperature. Many of the restaurants we visit are within easy walking distance of our home, or a civilised bus ride away, and we rarely have wet weather to contend with. It would probably look a bit odd for me to stroll down to the marina some evening wearing a dinner suit, or for my wife in stilettos and a floor sweeping gown. I can get away with a lounge suit with tie and my wife anything between mini and ankle length. New Years Eve is about the only time we wouldn't look silly in formal dress, even then I'd probably be the only one.

 

For us two weeks on QM2 is a chance to dress up more. We don't find gala menus that much more attractive than other nights and in BC we have the a la carte options as well. The other attraction for us is dancing. In terms of entertainment all we want is music that we can dance to and a floor of some sort to dance on. We do like musical shows but much prefer to be dancing to any music that is playing and wouldn't bother going to any show, presentation or talk on a cruise. We just don't like sitting watching anything when we could be up doing something ourselves.

 

So without dancing we wouldn't be booking, and it doesn't really matter how many galas are scheduled, we'll just dress for that every night.

[DaisyUK]

1 hour ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

The last time I was at the Met in New York, I specifically looked around to see how people were dressed. Full house, and only about 10 other men were wearing a tie. (Is that the experience at the ROH? Or do people tend to dress more formally overall?)

There is no dress code at the ROH, unless it’s a specific gala night which would usually be BTO. Generally, though people seem to dress smart-casual. My husband would not normally wear a tie but wear smart trousers and a jacket with open neck shirt.

[Tattycoram]

As a graduate student, I used to go to the Met in standing room at the back of the orchestra.  Those of us who were a bit more nicely dressed tended to get offered tickets to expensive seats when their original holders left at an intermission.  

 

The last few times I've been to the Met--pre-Covid--I was a guest of a friend who was in the Opera Guild.  All the men were in suits and ties, except for a few in tuxes.  

 

The Met has just got rid of the Opera Guild.

 

A friend of mine in London, always wears a tie to the ROH so that if, say, the production of The Marriage of Figaro is a particularly egregious example of Regieoper, he can sit back with his slightly loosened tie pulled up over the bridge of his nose to blindfold himself:  he can still hear the glorious music.  Ties can be useful as well as ornamental!

Edited Friday at 09:47 PM by Tattycoram

[Russiamomm]

I’ve read this thread with interest and almost quoted several posts, but it became apparent that my post would be a mile long if I did it, so I’ll just put my thoughts here.  No apparent order of thoughts or priorities.  😃

 

First, a bit of background.  DH and I will be taking our first Cunard trip on July 27.  NYC to Frankfurt.  It is our 30th anniversary.  From this crossing we will be hopping on an 18 night Oceania cruise from Oslo to Southampton and will fly home from Heathrow.  We’ll be away for a month.  We are experienced travelers and cruisers, but all mainstream lines.  We’ve done “traditional” ships with fixed dining and formal nights, but in recent years we have gravitated more toward less formal ships and flexible dining.  This will be our first experience on Cunard and a “luxury” line like Oceania.  In recent years we’ve mostly sailed on NCL (three times in the Haven and many trips in steerage) as well as many trips on Virgin, which we love.  We are not formal people.  While we love the luxury of the Haven, we also love that we don’t have to get dressed up. We also absolutely love the casual vibe and fantastic food on Virgin.   I don’t think we’re alone.  Cunard may have to adapt if they want to compete.

 

We had originally booked the Oceania trip.  DH does not like to fly.  When we found we could do the QM2 for less money than two business class plane tickets, and we have the time (we’re both retired), this was a no brainer.  
 

So much for the background.  While sailing the QM2 has always been a “bucket list” thing, we are concerned about the dress code.  And I do take a little offense to the term “dumbing down”.  I assure you that neither of us are “dumb”.  😂. We will dress for dinner, but it will not be “to the nines”.  DH no longer owns a tux and has no intention of buying one.  He does have a couple of nice jackets, slacks and ties, which have been dry cleaned and pressed for the occasion.  I have two simple long dresses, which I assume will work for the Gala nights.  But we really are not “into” the whole concept of dressing up.  Been there, done that.  It’s just not our thing.   And considering that this will be the first leg of an extended vacation where the rest of the trip is casual, we are concerned about luggage capacity.

 

I'm not really sure where I’m going with this, except to say that while we can appreciate tradition and the “specialness” of dressing up, keep in mind that for some of us, a crossing on the QM2 is transportation, as opposed to just the experience.  We are looking forward to the crossing.  We will do our best to comply with the dress code.  But we won’t be spending a fortune upgrading our wardrobe for outfits we will likely never wear again and don’t want to have to pack two additional suitcases to hold the formal wear.  

[reeves35]

Change can have many synonyms such as transform, revitalise, reinvigorate etc.  All of these are generally viewed as positive.  Unfortunately, dumbing-down also means change but it is a pejorative and judgmental and probably a term best avoided.

 

It is a common phenomenon that younger people like to dress up for a day at the races.  We see it every year for the Melbourne Cup Carnival.  They dress up spectacularly though by the end of the day many of the girls have discovered stilettos, alcohol and soft grass are a poor combination. Having said that, just because they dress up once or twice doesn't mean they want to do it every day.  It's probably the same for most people on a Cunard cruise, dressing up is great fun as a special occasion but that doesn't mean they want to do it every night.

 

[JT1101]

I'm more than happy to dress up in a black suit, white shirt and black bow tie. I don't own a tux but the black suit has always met with approval on gala nights as it is a formal cut as opposed to a sport or casual cut. For the non gala nights I typically stay with the jacket but skip the tie. 

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

The last time I was at the Met in New York, I specifically looked around to see how people were dressed. Full house, and only about 10 other men were wearing a tie. (Is that the experience at the ROH? Or do people tend to dress more formally overall?)

I don’t go any more, but it partly depends where people have come from. Sometimes they’ve been wearing a tie for work, and come from there, but less and less often. When my husband takes younger members of his family to ballet matinees, he doesn’t wear a tie. He would have done thirty years ago.

[exlondoner]

5 hours ago, Russiamomm said:

I’ve read this thread with interest and almost quoted several posts, but it became apparent that my post would be a mile long if I did it, so I’ll just put my thoughts here.  No apparent order of thoughts or priorities.  😃

 

First, a bit of background.  DH and I will be taking our first Cunard trip on July 27.  NYC to Frankfurt.  It is our 30th anniversary.  From this crossing we will be hopping on an 18 night Oceania cruise from Oslo to Southampton and will fly home from Heathrow.  We’ll be away for a month.  We are experienced travelers and cruisers, but all mainstream lines.  We’ve done “traditional” ships with fixed dining and formal nights, but in recent years we have gravitated more toward less formal ships and flexible dining.  This will be our first experience on Cunard and a “luxury” line like Oceania.  In recent years we’ve mostly sailed on NCL (three times in the Haven and many trips in steerage) as well as many trips on Virgin, which we love.  We are not formal people.  While we love the luxury of the Haven, we also love that we don’t have to get dressed up. We also absolutely love the casual vibe and fantastic food on Virgin.   I don’t think we’re alone.  Cunard may have to adapt if they want to compete.

 

We had originally booked the Oceania trip.  DH does not like to fly.  When we found we could do the QM2 for less money than two business class plane tickets, and we have the time (we’re both retired), this was a no brainer.  
 

So much for the background.  While sailing the QM2 has always been a “bucket list” thing, we are concerned about the dress code.  And I do take a little offense to the term “dumbing down”.  I assure you that neither of us are “dumb”.  😂. We will dress for dinner, but it will not be “to the nines”.  DH no longer owns a tux and has no intention of buying one.  He does have a couple of nice jackets, slacks and ties, which have been dry cleaned and pressed for the occasion.  I have two simple long dresses, which I assume will work for the Gala nights.  But we really are not “into” the whole concept of dressing up.  Been there, done that.  It’s just not our thing.   And considering that this will be the first leg of an extended vacation where the rest of the trip is casual, we are concerned about luggage capacity.

 

I'm not really sure where I’m going with this, except to say that while we can appreciate tradition and the “specialness” of dressing up, keep in mind that for some of us, a crossing on the QM2 is transportation, as opposed to just the experience.  We are looking forward to the crossing.  We will do our best to comply with the dress code.  But we won’t be spending a fortune upgrading our wardrobe for outfits we will likely never wear again and don’t want to have to pack two additional suitcases to hold the formal wear.  

This all seems quite reasonable. But, really, formal wear really doesn’t require extra suitcases, particularly given you have to wear something anyway. I realise an extra pair of shoes each makes extra weight. But the formal nights are spread out, so stuff can go to the laundry between and be worn again. 

[Victoria2]

6 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

This all seems quite reasonable. But, really, formal wear really doesn’t require extra suitcases, particularly given you have to wear something anyway. I realise an extra pair of shoes each makes extra weight. But the formal nights are spread out, so stuff can go to the laundry between and be worn again. 

I agree and having found I wore favourites pieces twice and one, three times on the fourteen nighter you and I were on last month, I intend to cut down on 'just in case' clothes next time.

Maybe! 😀