Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines

[Buford T Justiice]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:16 AM, DorothyB said:

 

Am I crazy to expect a company to treat me ethically??

 

Yes, you are crazy if you expect NCLH to treat you ethically. NCLH's goal is to separate you from your money. One needs to go no further than the marketing brochures exclaiming "FREE! FREE! FREE!" to see that ethics left the room quite some time ago at NCLH. I imagine it's hard on some of the employees too.

[EngrJones]

2 hours ago, Buford T Justiice said:

NCLH's goal is to separate you from your money.

Isn't that true of all businesses?

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Firstin87 said:

NCL sold shorex for Nicaragua until the last minute, too.

 

We were on the Prima's TA from NY to Southampton last April-May.  Lovely ship, but I don't recommend it for cold weather itineraries.  Losing the ability for passengers to enjoy all that outdoor space caused a lot of issues inside - dinner wait could be up to :30 min., even if you arrived when the MDR opened, small venues were packed up to :45 before an activity, just not designed for everyone to be inside all the time.

I am not surprised that they kept selling shorex when they knew they could not go there.

 

On my cruise with Isafjordur missed, we also missed our port in Belgium due according to them for an extremely low tide. I had previously bought excursions there from them. I called to get the moneys paid for them refunded to my credit card. I was first told I would get non-refundable OBC and should be grateful for that as they did not have to do any refunding for a missed port. I finally got across to the representative that I was not asking for compensation, rather my already paid excursion refunded. She said she had to consult with someone else and put me on hold. When she came back I did get the refund as I was cancelling an excursion (that they could no longer provide) within the cancellation period allowed for a refund.

[julig22]

9 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I am not surprised that they kept selling shorex when they knew they could not go there.

 

On my cruise with Isafjordur missed, we also missed our port in Belgium due according to them for an extremely low tide. I had previously bought excursions there from them. I called to get the moneys paid for them refunded to my credit card. I was first told I would get non-refundable OBC and should be grateful for that as they did not have to do any refunding for a missed port. I finally got across to the representative that I was not asking for compensation, rather my already paid excursion refunded. She said she had to consult with someone else and put me on hold. When she came back I did get the refund as I was cancelling an excursion (that they could no longer provide) within the cancellation period allowed for a refund.

 

The fact that they continued to sell shorex kinda tells me they had every intention of making the port when they started.

 

When NCL cancels a port, any NCL excursions are automatically refunded to your onboard account, as REFUNDABLE credit. And correct, they might not owe anything for a missed PORT, but that is a totally different issue. So either they misunderstood your question or you misunderstood their answer. No need to contact anyone in either situation.

 

They cannot refund pre-cruise purchases to your onboard credit card because the bank will not allow credits when there is no corresponding purchase - and there is no connection with your onboard account to purchases made prior to your cruise. So your onboard account is credited, if that results in a positive balance, you have to collect your cash - or make arrangements to have a check issued -before they will let you disembark.

[luv2kroooz]

5 hours ago, PugM0m said:

So they gave their guest a 2 day notice to arrange to get to the port a full 24 hours earlier

Storms are outside of the control of any cruise line, including NCL.

 

So, how would you have handled it differently if you were Carnival? Change the cruise sooner when the storm track was uncertain? Send the ships into their home ports while the storm was occurring?

 

Quick to criticize, but no solutions. It is hurricane season. Hurricane season can be challenging it is advisable to have solid travel insurance to minimize disruption. Wise up.

[Ellis1138]

If I recall, the OP's circumstance was not due to stuff like weather, tides, or things out of NCL's control. But rather that they waited until after there would be a penalty for cancelling to announce changes made for non-emergency reasons. 

For me, this announcement was that the Pride of America would no longer cruise the Na Pali coast. 

While I personally feel that if a cruise line really cared about the environment, they would shut down entirely, the switch wasn't enough to make me cancel nor was it enough to make me declare NCL unethical or claim abuse of the ToS.

 

The question the OP asks is if they should switch cruise lines. But that also is a strange question. It's not like NCL ever made a fuss because I was on Royal Caribbean. NCL didn't refuse to let me book on the Prima, just because I'd done some other cruise line cruise.

 

Do some cruises with other lines. Research the itineraries. Heck, maybe even somewhere are statistics for which cruise line has deviated the least from an itinerary. (ie, "Qantas has never crashed.") 

 

The fact remains that all we can do is buy "Cancel for Any Reason" from our travel insurance for huge itinerary changes and make sure our travel insurance includes missing ports. 

[ChiefMateJRK]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:16 AM, DorothyB said:

What I am struggling a LOT with is that they lied to us and are acting unethically to make more money.  I am not sure if I should just recognize that all companies are just out to make profit even if it means lying to us . . . 

Don't confuse corporate dysfunction with ill-intent.  Corporations tend to be silos, and communication often suffers.  Also, the cruise lines just barely avoided oblivion and the debt sheets are enormous.  The marketing/sales folks will just keep selling as many cruises as they can.  The engineering/maintenance folks will try to maximize reliability with what is likely a frozen budget.  The bean counters will just collect the beans and report the end result.  Legal will try to keep up with port agreements and ever changing, multi-country laws and regulations.  I've worked at sinking ship corporations and healthy ones.  Ironically, it often changes little in how those trying to earn their bonuses behave and (don't) communicate.  Like it or not, that's what keeps the officers employed and the stockholders (somewhat) happy.  If there were a non-profit cruise company, I can almost guarantee that cruises would be a 💩show.

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, julig22 said:

 

The fact that they continued to sell shorex kinda tells me they had every intention of making the port when they started.

 

When NCL cancels a port, any NCL excursions are automatically refunded to your onboard account, as REFUNDABLE credit. And correct, they might not owe anything for a missed PORT, but that is a totally different issue. So either they misunderstood your question or you misunderstood their answer. No need to contact anyone in either situation.

 

They cannot refund pre-cruise purchases to your onboard credit card because the bank will not allow credits when there is no corresponding purchase - and there is no connection with your onboard account to purchases made prior to your cruise. So your onboard account is credited, if that results in a positive balance, you have to collect your cash - or make arrangements to have a check issued -before they will let you disembark.

We booked the cruise in question in the Fall of 2021 for the Summer of 2023. Of course they intended to be able for passengers to disembark. But, as the season progressed, it had to have become evident that the dock was not going to get finished. At some point they had to know this was not going to happen at all for the entire season and stop selling excursions.

 

I asked for the refund for the port excursion for the port they missed before the cruise. It was not being refunded to the onboard credit card. And why was non-refundable credit being offered for something they could no longer provide and I had already paid for? And especially why when you are allowed to cancel an excursion for a full refund within a certain period that I was well within?

[Ellis1138]

I am laughing as I write it. At midnight last night, the 120 day mark happened. I had done the final payment last week, so I just booked my specialty dining and went to bed.

 

We are past final payment and into the "cancel with penalties" phase.

 

Just now, at 10 am, an email from NCL comes, with the itinerary changes. Thankfully, it's just shifted times, not different ports. But it reminded me of this thread.

 

So yeah, NCL definitely seems to wait until they have all the dollars.

[luv2kroooz]

1 minute ago, Ellis1138 said:

So yeah, NCL definitely seems to wait until they have all the dollars.

Yep, no surprise there, right? That is what they did to us in 2023, so your experience mirrors ours, sadly. Vote with your wallet, as we did, or take the gamble. To each their own and good luck to all with NCL.

[Ellis1138]

Absolutely no surprise for me. This particular cruise I'm doing purely for the transatlantic sail, and I only plan to get out, walk a bit and go back to the ship, so it doesn't affect me.

My previous cruise, I was happy that nothing changed and we got to every port.

It's not enough to make me not book NCL yet.

 

[DCGuy64]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

A lot of those who complain about NCL misleading them with shouts of "Free at Sea" are apparently misunderstanding the definition of "free." It can mean several things, but often means "without cost," however NCL means "without restrictions." Just look at their TV ads where someone sings "I want to break free." Nowhere do they say everything comes with no cost attached. Free at Sea means you can dine anytime, having all the drinks you want, and surf the internet. If you think "free" means "it costs me nothing," then that's on you.

[Firstin87]

18 hours ago, julig22 said:

 

The fact that they continued to sell shorex kinda tells me they had every intention of making the port when they started.

 

In our case, NCL knew well in advance that Nicaragua was closed to cruise ships.  They had not (still haven't, I think) reopened since the pandemic and they will not do so with just a few days notice.  NCL was advertising and selling shorex for that port until the they announced the cancellation.  They sell the shorex so they can hold your money for awhile and make some money off it.

 

Oceania is showing Nicaragua as a port on upcoming itineraries; not sure if NCL is.  The odds of cruises returning to Nicaragua seem to be slim to none at this point, in my opinion.

 

 

[julig22]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

We booked the cruise in question in the Fall of 2021 for the Summer of 2023. Of course they intended to be able for passengers to disembark. But, as the season progressed, it had to have become evident that the dock was not going to get finished. At some point they had to know this was not going to happen at all for the entire season and stop selling excursions.

 

I asked for the refund for the port excursion for the port they missed before the cruise. It was not being refunded to the onboard credit card. And why was non-refundable credit being offered for something they could no longer provide and I had already paid for? And especially why when you are allowed to cancel an excursion for a full refund within a certain period that I was well within?

I misunderstood - thought you were referring to ports canceled during your cruise, not ones canceled prior to leaving.

[yakcruiser]

20 minutes ago, Firstin87 said:

In our case, NCL knew well in advance that Nicaragua was closed to cruise ships.  They had not (still haven't, I think) reopened since the pandemic and they will not do so with just a few days notice.  NCL was advertising and selling shorex for that port until the they announced the cancellation.  They sell the shorex so they can hold your money for awhile and make some money off it.

 

Oceania is showing Nicaragua as a port on upcoming itineraries; not sure if NCL is.  The odds of cruises returning to Nicaragua seem to be slim to none at this point, in my opinion.

 

 

NCL is still showing Nicaragua as a stop on my Jade cruise next April. And they probably will show it as a stop until we are all onboard. But I know we will not stop there so I will not get too worked up when we don't go there. Same with my three cruises next September that say I will stop in Bar Harbor. I know that's not happening.

[ontheweb]

52 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

A lot of those who complain about NCL misleading them with shouts of "Free at Sea" are apparently misunderstanding the definition of "free." It can mean several things, but often means "without cost," however NCL means "without restrictions." Just look at their TV ads where someone sings "I want to break free." Nowhere do they say everything comes with no cost attached. Free at Sea means you can dine anytime, having all the drinks you want, and surf the internet. If you think "free" means "it costs me nothing," then that's on you.

How can you interpret free excursions as anything but they are free (or at least included like the excursions of the river cruise we took earlier this year)? How is $50 off "free"? There were no excursions $50 or less on our NCL Prima cruise last summer.

[ontheweb]

23 minutes ago, julig22 said:

I misunderstood - thought you were referring to ports canceled during your cruise, not ones canceled prior to leaving.

OK, no problem.

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

How can you interpret free excursions as anything but they are free (or at least included like the excursions of the river cruise we took earlier this year)? How is $50 off "free"? There were no excursions $50 or less on our NCL Prima cruise last summer.

I don't count those at all. And probably just a hunch here, but I bet most people who get FAS do it for the specialty dining, drinks and internet, not the paltry $50 off excursions for the first person only. (I can often find the same or better excursions for less than $50 off NCL's prices, anyway.) QED: my point still stands, "free" means unrestricted, not $0. 😉 

[pghflyer]

Karma found me this morning on one of my itineraries so I did see the exact phrase (I couldn't recall precisely previously) they use when they change port schedules on their own (unrelated to weather / natural disaster, port conditions, strikes, and other things outside their control):

 

"optimize itineraries for enhanced port and shore excursion availability, as well as fuel efficiency, as a part of our commitment to the environment and sustainability efforts"

 

I feel like some Mckinsey consultant wrote this with all the corporate speak in there. Luckily for me, they at least sent this one BEFORE final payment.........

[pghflyer]

33 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I don't count those at all. And probably just a hunch here, but I bet most people who get FAS do it for the specialty dining, drinks and internet, not the paltry $50 off excursions for the first person only....

Completely agree....although sometimes the $50 PLUS your status discount can make for some near free basic excursions sometimes (on the other hand, I am looking at Iceland excursions where right now their cheapest is $299 per person and non-ship can easily be had for $99+).   For me the math isn't reliable enough to count the excursions as a financial perk to the package, pretty much same situation for the BOGO air too (although if you are retired and have unlimited time to depart/ return at inconvenient times with long layovers, you can bank some $$).

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, pghflyer said:

Completely agree....although sometimes the $50 PLUS your status discount can make for some near free basic excursions sometimes (on the other hand, I am looking at Iceland excursions where right now their cheapest is $299 per person and non-ship can easily be had for $99+).   For me the math isn't reliable enough to count the excursions as a financial perk to the package, pretty much same situation for the BOGO air too (although if you are retired and have unlimited time to depart/ return at inconvenient times with long layovers, you can bank some $$).

Thanks for this additional information. We are Silver status so I don't know if that makes a difference. I've always wondered what percentage of passengers on NCL are first-timers, to cruising in general or NCL in particular. I'm sure someone out in marketing land could hazard a guess.

1 hour ago, pghflyer said:

"optimize itineraries for enhanced port and shore excursion availability, as well as fuel efficiency, as a part of our commitment to the environment and sustainability efforts"

Interesting. The cynic in me thinks that's just corporate speak for a money grab, but another part of me wonders whether this isn't just a nod to environmental groups who have complained for years about cruising's adverse impact on the ocean, sea life, etc.

[pghflyer]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks for this additional information. We are Silver status so I don't know if that makes a difference......

 

 

I will say that if you use that status perk on board, you definitely have to remind them to apply it.

[Firstin87]

In cast this helps - the math for the excursion discount is:

Person 1 (who has the $50 discount): Shorex Cost - $50 - Less x%

Person 2: Shorex Cost - Less x%

 

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I don't count those at all. And probably just a hunch here, but I bet most people who get FAS do it for the specialty dining, drinks and internet, not the paltry $50 off excursions for the first person only. (I can often find the same or better excursions for less than $50 off NCL's prices, anyway.) QED: my point still stands, "free" means unrestricted, not $0. 😉 

So your definition works when it is convenient. They do say FREE excursions.

 

BTW, we did not take the free drinks (not free pay tips) or the free dining (not free pay tips), but did take the so called FREE excursions.

 

But I never claimed to be normal.  

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, pghflyer said:

Karma found me this morning on one of my itineraries so I did see the exact phrase (I couldn't recall precisely previously) they use when they change port schedules on their own (unrelated to weather / natural disaster, port conditions, strikes, and other things outside their control):

 

"optimize itineraries for enhanced port and shore excursion availability, as well as fuel efficiency, as a part of our commitment to the environment and sustainability efforts"

 

I feel like some Mckinsey consultant wrote this with all the corporate speak in there. Luckily for me, they at least sent this one BEFORE final payment.........

I guess someone at corporate made a mistake and did not wait for final payment to be due. 🤦‍♂️