Some questions from a newby on Cunard

[ernnnn]

1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

It appears Cunard may not be a good fit for one.  

Think it’s best, for all cruisers, to sail on lines that have dress codes, and ambience, that they are comfortable with.  Otherwise, there will be concerns, and angst, raised before, during, and after sailing.

 

Posting one’s personal unhappiness, regarding dress codes, on various web-sites, will not influence any change to the Line’s protocols.

If genuinely seeking to upgrade one’s usual sailings, then they are many lines, other than Cunard, with more relaxed dress codes.  CC has excellent threads to assist one’s selection.

Whatever one chooses, happy sailing.

Maybe I am not explaining myself correctly, maybe it's because I'm Spanish and English is not my mother tongue. But I'm not posting unhappiness, and I don't clearly intend the cruise line to change their codes for me. It's just learning about the rules of a cruise line I am not familiar to, and being surprised to find how different it is from the ones I know. Now it's my turn to decide if it fits me or not, that's just my choice. And I haven't said those rules are correct or not, just my surprise to find they are so different.

 

And, as I said on a different post, I wouldn't inagine this topic would be so personal for some people. Curious to find that of all the topics I ha e asked on the first post, dress cose is the only one mostly all the people are talkibg about.

[cruising.mark.uk]

17 minutes ago, ernnnn said:

Maybe I am not explaining myself correctly, maybe it's because I'm Spanish and English is not my mother tongue. But I'm not posting unhappiness, and I don't clearly intend the cruise line to change their codes for me. It's just learning about the rules of a cruise line I am not familiar to, and being surprised to find how different it is from the ones I know. Now it's my turn to decide if it fits me or not, that's just my choice. And I haven't said those rules are correct or not, just my surprise to find they are so different.

 

And, as I said on a different post, I wouldn't inagine this topic would be so personal for some people. Curious to find that of all the topics I ha e asked on the first post, dress cose is the only one mostly all the people are talkibg about.

The rules are not 'so different'.  @Victoria2 provided you some excellent advice above.    

My advice would be to remember that of all the hundreds of thousands of passengers who sail Cunard each year and enjoy their cruises, only a fraction of 1% are active contributors to these boards and there is a tendency for some of them to have views and opinions at the extreme end of the spectrum on issues such as dress code which are not in any way representative or typical of the vast majority of cruisers on Cunard.    I sense that many cruisers trying to find out about Cunard via these boards are scared off by some of the views they read on here (which often bear no resemblance to the truth and sometimes contain blatant misinformation) and thereby miss out on experiencing this cruise line.  That is sad.

 

What the dress code actually says (on the UK site) for smart attire is:  'Smart attire simply means a dress shirt and trousers, skirt and a top, or a cocktail dress. Essentially, choose something along the same vein as you’d wear to a stylish restaurant or the theatre on a special occasion'.  Jeans meet any but the most extreme definition of trousers and, given that Cunard does not make a distinction between jeans and other types of trousers, neither should anyone cruising on Cunard.  I often wear jeans to stylish restaurants and have regularly worn jeans to the dining room on non-gala nights.  Many other passengers clearly do likewise.  

 

The situation with polo shirts is a little more complex.  'Dress shirt' as per the dress regs means something different depending on where you are from.  In the UK, a dress shirt is a formal shirt worn with a dinner jacket and bow tie.  That is clearly not what the Cunard dress regs mean by the term when talking about 'smart attire'.  I suspect that what they have in mind is more aligned with the US definition, which I interpret as a shirt with buttons down the front, long sleeves and a collar.  Whether or not a polo shirt will meet that definition may be open to debate.  However, the only opinion that matters is that of the maitre d' at the restaurant or the staff in the venue you are visiting.  It might be wise to ask the maitre d' on the first night on board and to take some more traditional style shirts with you just in case.

 

I cannot understand why some are so fixated on what other people wear.  It is nothing to do with them and should have no impact on how they experience their cruise.  Your cruise is your cruise and you should wear clothes that you feel comfortable in and which comply with the dress regs.  Only the staff can judge whether what someone is wearing complies or not.  My advice is not to be put off by what you might read on here, to ignore any (spurious) claims that you will feel under-dressed if you are not wearing very formal clothing every night and to give Cunard a try because it offers a good value cruise experience which is very similar in many respects to other mainstream lines at a similar price point, with some interesting and unique characteristics of its own.  I'm sure you will have fun.  If what you choose to wear results in a couple of other passengers not having fun because they are spluttering into their gin and tonics about you wearing jeans, that, in my opinion, is their problem, not yours.

[Essiesmom]

Now, inquiring minds want to know…on formal nights you occasionally see dress kilts with full regalia.  Knees showing…. Assuming that a Scotsman might also have an every day kilt, would that be acceptable in the MDR?  EM

[david63]

9 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Assuming that a Scotsman might also have an every day kilt, would that be acceptable in the MDR?

I've never known it not (on any cruise line)

[david63]

6 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

my assumption is the staff will guide those considered to be of a more casual dress for the evening, to the Lido or Golden Lion.

That is certainly not happening in QG on QV this week

[Victoria2]

7 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Now, inquiring minds want to know…on formal nights you occasionally see dress kilts with full regalia.  Knees showing…. Assuming that a Scotsman might also have an every day kilt, would that be acceptable in the MDR?  EM

Oh my

 😁Do kilts do daywear? Will any one other than a proud Scotsman, or person, let's not get personal, know the difference [so my answer would be 'it's fine']?

Or are they made of blue jean denim so we would all know  and so be ready to add our five pennyworth into the mix!!

 

Seriously now. What's the difference between day kilts and the full Monty? I would have thought kilts are kilts unless it's the regalia which goes with a 'dress' kilt.

 

 

 

[Victoria2]

1 minute ago, david63 said:

That is certainly not happening in QG on QV this week

Does the QV programme have the same wording as the QA programme Hattie posted?

 

 

[King Amo]

They were fetching tuxedo jackets from lost property for people to wear on formal nights last month. Some took them thankfully, some ended up eating elsewhere, and others tried to get in the Restaurant Manager's face before ending up eating elsewhere. On the smart attire nights, however, it was pretty much anything goes barring shorts. 

 

[Host Hattie]

This is the Smart Attire description from today's Daily Programme on Queen Anne. To me, the reference to non-ripped jeans is part of the second paragraph about more relaxed attire. I wouldn't interpret this to mean that jeans are included as part of Smart Attire requirements. I haven't noticed anyone wearing jeans in Britannia Club on this sailing yet.

 

 

[david63]

21 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Does the QV programme have the same wording as the QA programme Hattie posted?

 

 

Essentially apart from the "enforced" bit

[Host Hattie]

From what you've said it sounds like Cunard wouldn't suit you, I hope you find a line that you enjoy. 

[cruising.mark.uk]

20 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

This is the Smart Attire description from today's Daily Programme on Queen Anne. To me, the reference to non-ripped jeans is part of the second paragraph about more relaxed attire. I wouldn't interpret this to mean that jeans are included as part of Smart Attire requirements. I haven't noticed anyone wearing jeans in Britannia Club on this sailing yet.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that interpretation.  

It's the end of the first para that is about 'more relaxed attire'.  If the statement about jeans was meant to fall in the description of that category, there would be no paragraph break.  By inserting a new paragraph they are introducing a new point, thus disassociating the statement about jeans from that about 'more relaxed attire' and including it under the general heading 'What to Wear: Smart Attire'.

 

From the OP's perspective, it's also interesting to note that the 'dress shirt' reference on the web site is replaced here by 'collared shirt'.  Polo shirts have a collar, so that implies that polo shirts are perfectly acceptable as smart attire.

 

But, as I stated earlier, it doesn't matter what I (or any other poster) think - all that matters is what the staff are enforcing.  But, if they are going to try to disallow jeans and polo shirts, I'd recommend that they re-write their dress code more clearly, both on their website and in the Daily Programme.  And, ensuring also that the Daily Programme and the website descriptions matched would help to avoid confusion.

[Caipi]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

The rules are not 'so different'.  @Victoria2 provided you some excellent advice above.    

My advice would be to remember that of all the hundreds of thousands of passengers who sail Cunard each year and enjoy their cruises, only a fraction of 1% are active contributors to these boards and there is a tendency for some of them to have views and opinions at the extreme end of the spectrum on issues such as dress code which are not in any way representative or typical of the vast majority of cruisers on Cunard.    I sense that many cruisers trying to find out about Cunard via these boards are scared off by some of the views they read on here (which often bear no resemblance to the truth and sometimes contain blatant misinformation) and thereby miss out on experiencing this cruise line.  That is sad.

 

What the dress code actually says (on the UK site) for smart attire is:  'Smart attire simply means a dress shirt and trousers, skirt and a top, or a cocktail dress. Essentially, choose something along the same vein as you’d wear to a stylish restaurant or the theatre on a special occasion'.  Jeans meet any but the most extreme definition of trousers and, given that Cunard does not make a distinction between jeans and other types of trousers, neither should anyone cruising on Cunard.  I often wear jeans to stylish restaurants and have regularly worn jeans to the dining room on non-gala nights.  Many other passengers clearly do likewise.  

 

The situation with polo shirts is a little more complex.  'Dress shirt' as per the dress regs means something different depending on where you are from.  In the UK, a dress shirt is a formal shirt worn with a dinner jacket and bow tie.  That is clearly not what the Cunard dress regs mean by the term when talking about 'smart attire'.  I suspect that what they have in mind is more aligned with the US definition, which I interpret as a shirt with buttons down the front, long sleeves and a collar.  Whether or not a polo shirt will meet that definition may be open to debate.  However, the only opinion that matters is that of the maitre d' at the restaurant or the staff in the venue you are visiting.  It might be wise to ask the maitre d' on the first night on board and to take some more traditional style shirts with you just in case.

 

I cannot understand why some are so fixated on what other people wear.  It is nothing to do with them and should have no impact on how they experience their cruise.  Your cruise is your cruise and you should wear clothes that you feel comfortable in and which comply with the dress regs.  Only the staff can judge whether what someone is wearing complies or not.  My advice is not to be put off by what you might read on here, to ignore any (spurious) claims that you will feel under-dressed if you are not wearing very formal clothing every night and to give Cunard a try because it offers a good value cruise experience which is very similar in many respects to other mainstream lines at a similar price point, with some interesting and unique characteristics of its own.  I'm sure you will have fun.  If what you choose to wear results in a couple of other passengers not having fun because they are spluttering into their gin and tonics about you wearing jeans, that, in my opinion, is their problem, not yours.

 

CUNARD does mention jeans as relaxed (not smart) attire:

 

Of course, if you prefer to spend your evenings in more relaxed attire, a selection of casual dining and entertainment venues is always available for your enjoyment. Feel free to dress casually as you visit any of the following venues: Kings Court, Lido Buffet (Including Al Fresco), Golden Lion, Casino, Carinthia Lounge, Winter Garden, Garden Lounge, Yacht Club, and G32. Non-ripped, jeans are appropriate, but after 6pm please refrain from wearing shorts, sports attire, swimwear or sleeveless t-shirts outside of the gym, spa and deck spaces.

Edited Saturday at 03:02 PM by Caipi

[Caipi]

26 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that interpretation.  

It's the end of the first para that is about 'more relaxed attire'.  If the statement about jeans was meant to fall in the description of that category, there would be no paragraph break.  By inserting a new paragraph they are introducing a new point, thus disassociating the statement about jeans from that about 'more relaxed attire' and including it under the general heading 'What to Wear: Smart Attire'.

 

From the OP's perspective, it's also interesting to note that the 'dress shirt' reference on the web site is replaced here by 'collared shirt'.  Polo shirts have a collar, so that implies that polo shirts are perfectly acceptable as smart attire.

 

But, as I stated earlier, it doesn't matter what I (or any other poster) think - all that matters is what the staff are enforcing.  But, if they are going to try to disallow jeans and polo shirts, I'd recommend that they re-write their dress code more clearly, both on their website and in the Daily Programme.  And, ensuring also that the Daily Programme and the website descriptions matched would help to avoid confusion.

 

I saw a man in a polo-shirt on a Gala night in Britannia restaurant and was quite surprised, but i thought maybe he had lost his luggage. Could happen. 🙂 I was so afraid of that that we had all our evening stuff (suit, cocktail dresses, all collared shirts, 2 pairs of shoes) in our hand luggage. 🙂 We could have rebought some clothes in Hamburg, but definitely not these....

Edited Saturday at 03:26 PM by Caipi

[D&N]

4 hours ago, ernnnn said:

When you don't know a single bit of a cruise line apart from the name, and you are used to many other lines, and you are used to do one thing, the word you use when you discover something different is "surprising". Each cruise line is different, I know, and that's why I come here to ask and discover those unique particularities, instead of making a mistake once onboard. And, while all the answers are being respectful, I'm finding the dress code issue a bit "personal" on some answers.That's also "surprising" to me.

I would always research anything like this very carefully. There are many photos on Google. I searched "evening wear on cunard ships" on Google's UK site. Ignoring those provided by Cunard there are hundreds showing what passengers have worn onboard Cunard ships at various times of day. There are also many YouTube videos, which often include shots of passengers at Afternoon Tea, Dinner, and dancing or watching dancing in the Queens Room. These sources give a clear picture of what the norm is on Cunard.

I wouldn't just rely on replies from one forum.

 

I've used the same techniques for MSC and Costa. Both lines sail seven night round trip cruises from our local ports of Toulon, Genoa and Savonna. Sometimes off season cruises are advertised from €300 p/p for seven nights. If we wanted to book any of these we would know exactly what to expect onboard.

Of course that doesn't mean we would copy folk in those photos and videos. I would dress in tux or dark suit with tie very night, as I will for an outing to a local beach restaurant this evening.

I would hope that I wouldn't be refused entrance to the MDR for being dressed more formally than most other folk.

 

The issue is probably "personal" to many here because there are so few lines providing this ambience to choose from. An industry publication suggests there are about 330 cruise ships operating worldwide. Of those I'm aware of less than 10 with this sort of dress code, that includes the 4 Cunarders, and 2 Saga. Even Fred Olsen permits polos on smart casual nights.

Regular passengers and others who would choose partly Cunard because of the dress code are concerned that it is constantly under attack from folk that want casual who have 320 other ships to choose from.

[Caipi]

27 minutes ago, D&N said:

IRegular passengers and others who would choose partly Cunard because of the dress code are concerned that it is constantly under attack from folk that want casual who have 320 other ships to choose from.

 

I never saw someone attacking the dress code, what would that be good for? It is as it is, and as you said if they don't like it they could book another ship anyway. (And Germans who were with us on QM2 did not bring evening wear at all, they just went to the buffet.) 

What I did see in several groups are 'traditionalists' attacking people who don't plan to wear a tuxedo or a suit every night, because according to them you have to, although Cunard clearly states that is not the case (anymore), only on formal nights. 

 

As long as people are following the dress code which is stated by Cunard they can wear anything and noone has the right to criticize them for it. 

Edited Saturday at 04:27 PM by Caipi

[david63]

I am currently on QV and apart from formal nights there is very little difference that I can see in the way that passengers dress, including QG, than there is on any other cruise line that I have been on. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of men wearing a tie - although there is probably a higher percentage wearing a jacket.

 

I would add the caveat that this is a Mediterranean cruise and that the standard of dress may be different if it was a TA.

[ernnnn]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

I am currently on QV and apart from formal nights there is very little difference that I can see in the way that passengers dress, including QG, than there is on any other cruise line that I have been on. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of men wearing a tie - although there is probably a higher percentage wearing a jacket.

 

I would add the caveat that this is a Mediterranean cruise and that the standard of dress may be different if it was a TA.

Any polo shirts? 😂😂

[TouchstoneFeste]

14 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

Oh my

 😁Do kilts do daywear? Will any one other than a proud Scotsman, or person, let's not get personal, know the difference [so my answer would be 'it's fine']?

Or are they made of blue jean denim so we would all know  and so be ready to add our five pennyworth into the mix!!

 

Seriously now. What's the difference between day kilts and the full Monty? I would have thought kilts are kilts unless it's the regalia which goes with a 'dress' kilt.

 

 

 

Kilts is kilts, day or night. It's what you wear WITH the kilt that determines appropriateness for the occasion. There is a category of garments usually known as "utility kilts" made from cotton fabrics, but these are not usually worn by the same people. For what it's worth, I normally wear jeans or chinos during the day and save the kilts for evening wear.

[Host Hattie]

This is the wording in the Information Guide on Queen Anne 

 

[Victoria2]

Thank you  Host Hattie , but yet again, Cunard fudge the issue by using the phrase 'smarter fabrics' for their 'Smart Attire' advice.

 

What is a 'smarter fabric'? I know what Cunard mean but then we have kept to the dress advice of a decade ago [apart from losing the tie]. If Cunard won't use specifics, they can't expect compliance from passengers who have differences of opinion on what constitutes  'smarter fabrics'.

 

Shall we debate the differences between 'pique knit' and 'jersey knit' on a collared shirt? I think pique is 'smarter' than a jersey knit and so would that make a pique knit polo [it has a collar] acceptable?

 

At least the Gala advice is clear although I would have written 'cocktail dresses and trouser suits' rather than  'cocktail dresses, smart trouser suits...'.

 

The world has changed. Dress sense has changed and if Cunard want a certain style of dress, then say so. Don't leave it to personal interpretation and if they do leave it to personal interpretation, 'they' and 'we' shouldn't be be surprised at the differences of opinion on the subject.

 

 

 

[ernnnn]

3 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

This is the wording in the Information Guide on Queen Anne 

 

So, according to this, a polo shirt and trousers is accepted. And that's not my opinion, it's what Cunard says on Smart Attire evenings. Good to know.

Gala evenings is another story, and I will be also prepared for those, don't worry.

 

And, by the way, we have just reserved, so I hope to see you onboard next summer on our 21 days cruise. Looking forward to it!

Edited Sunday at 12:28 PM by ernnnn

[WantedOnVoyage]

I do like the "collared shirt" term which is right out of the Edwardian Era... when gentlemen wore "a shirt and collar". And the collar was celluloid and indeed separate. 

 

Today, like such much of the Cunard dress code, it is vague, confusing wordage that varies even where you access it on their own website.  And yes... a "polo shirt" has a collar. As does a rugby shirt and some cycling jerseys.  So anyone who thinks a "polo shirt" counts as "smart" let alone evening attire, should be free to wear a rugby shirt as well.  And no doubt do.

 

What's missing in the dress code is the essential: the phrase "ladies and gentlemen".  Possibly for good reason.

 

 

 

 

[david63]

16 hours ago, ernnnn said:

Any polo shirts? 😂😂

A few

[ShipboardSteve]

From what I have seen and experience on many Cunard voyages over quite a number of years, and including this year, is that the majority of people on Cunard cruises know what smart attire means, and know what is appropriate for a Gala night in terms of dress too.  But a small minority are intent on trying to push the limits to try to test whether they can wear the more casual end of smart they can get away with, and try to spoil the overall intent that most people enjoy dressing well to make for a nice atmosphere among like-minded passengers.  As such that is a shame because it remains the case that most people do enjoy dressing up for evenings beyond the 'anything goes' casual during the day on holiday.