Don’t travel with NCL for Itinerary

[JSar]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

There is an ongoing narrative on this board that NCL is playing bait and switch promising certain items then not delivering in order to increase NCL profits.  The narrative is sometimes changing ports to save on fuel costs, sometimes deleting the FAS+, reducing the entertainment, removing high dollar items like steaks from the menus, nickel and diming, etc., etc.  You'll notice those making these claims have no experience in operating a cruise line.

The thing is, you can find similar accusations on every cruise line board on this forum.

I think the claim about "fuel efficiency" is because NCL seems to be using a set standard letter for ALL their itinerary changes that mentions those words... it is being used like a generic letter that is recycled over and over again. Doesn't mean that saving on fuel is the actual reason the itinerary adjusted and/or a port is cancelled. Just that it was mentioned in the standard letter that is used over and over again as ONE of the reasons the itinerary MAY have been changed. I have seen multiple versions of this same letter on this site for multiple itinerary changes on various cruises. But yes..  fuel efficiency is mentioned in these letters. In fact... it was used in my letter when Bonaire was cancelled. But in doing further research... it turns out that Bonaire no longer allows more than 1 ship to dock at a time... and another ship got that spot for the day we were slated to arrive. But I also noticed there were multiple TIME adjustments made to the itinerary... most of which WOULD save fuel efficiency. For example, cancelling Bonaire meant the ship could sail towards Aruba at a slower pace, which would indeed save on fuel. But that doesn't mean that was the reason why they cancelled the port. And, I have every reason to believe that Bonaire was cancelled due to Bonaire dock regulations since there was already another boat listed to dock that day at Bonaire. 

 

And yeah... for every angry post on NCL's board, there are angry posts on all the other boards. First world problems. 

[luv2kroooz]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

And accusing NCL to make these changes to increase profits from a bait and switch narrative.

Mate, I see NCL acknowledging the inconvenience to guests yet they don't allow passengers to cancel without penalty. When they allow a penalty free cancellation, my position will change. Until then, it is clear and it isn't even close.

[RocketMan275]

11 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Mate, I see NCL acknowledging the inconvenience to guests yet they don't allow passengers to cancel without penalty. When they allow a penalty free cancellation, my position will change. Until then, it is clear and it isn't even close.

NCL cancellation policy is very similar to all other cruise lines.  

Passengers do not purchase an itinerary of specific ports.  And changes to those ports is justification for a penalty free cancellation. All a passenger is purchasing is a cruise of a set number of days in a certain class of accomodations.  Consequently, a passenger is only entitled to compensation when the cruise is reduced in length or if there is a change in cabin, etc.

If the cruise contract does not protect the cruise line, then why haven't there been class action suits for compensation?  Since such suits have not been filed, it would seem that the contracts do protect the cruise lines.

If you truly believe a cruise line is fraudulent, then there are lawyers that specialize in suing cruise lines.

[RocketMan275]

44 minutes ago, drew69 said:

It is not an assumption but clearly claimed by NCL in all of the revised itinerary letters they send out.

The assumption is NCL is making these changes as part of a bait and switch.

[luv2kroooz]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

NCL cancellation policy is very similar to all other cruise lines.  

Passengers do not purchase an itinerary of specific ports.  And changes to those ports is justification for a penalty free cancellation. All a passenger is purchasing is a cruise of a set number of days in a certain class of accomodations.  Consequently, a passenger is only entitled to compensation when the cruise is reduced in length or if there is a change in cabin, etc.

If the cruise contract does not protect the cruise line, then why haven't there been class action suits for compensation?  Since such suits have not been filed, it would seem that the contracts do protect the cruise lines.

If you truly believe a cruise line is fraudulent, then there are lawyers that specialize in suing cruise lines.

Nice illogical deflection. It failed. I thought we were talking about a profit motive. Anyway, I am not getting down in the dirt with you. We embark next week on a multi week HAL cruise. No itinerary changes to date. Looking forward to it. No skin in the game with NCL. Let future buyers beware and make informed decisions. Peace.

Edited 10 hours ago by luv2kroooz

[drew69]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The assumption is NCL is making these changes as part of a bait and switch.

Not the was she posted it.

[RocketMan275]

39 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Nice illogical deflection. It failed. I thought we were talking about a profit motive. Anyway, I am not getting down in the dirt with you. We embark next week on a multi week HAL cruise. No itinerary changes to date. Looking forward to it. No skin in the game with NCL. Let future buyers beware and make informed decisions. Peace.

Wish you well.  

BTW, HAL was once our favorite line.  Then we had two cruises cancelled by HAL.  HAL will do contingency charters with another company.   In the first case, this company was selling a Jazz cruise.  If the company obtained sufficient bookings, they would then convert the contingency to their charter.  While this company was marketing this charter, HAL would continue to offer the same cruise, same date, same ship, same itinerary to the general public.  We know of two times when the company bought out the charter and anyone other than the charter was just out of luck.  HAL paid, IIRC, $200 as compensation.   Some here are complaining about NCL dropping a port to enhance their profits.  HAL was willing to drop an entire cruise without warning to enhance their profits.  The moral of this tale no cruise line is pure at heart.

[herbanrenewal]

16 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The moral of this tale no cruise line is pure at heart.

This is the heart of the problem - Cruise lines are a service for profit business, hit very hard by the covid era and post covid economy. If I knowingly purchase their product, knowing they have downgraded some of the features I value- everything from thinning staffing to the point that simply assuming your room will be cleaned is a disappointment, cutting entertainment budget, substituting prime menu options for lesser quality - these I knowingly accepted when i purchased cruises over the last couple years. What  I do find harder to contemplate is they are selling a product they have no intention of delivering. All the fuel/environmental issues do not make sense - what part of the cost of operating their vessels did they not know, that required radical changes to itinerary.  I'm not talking substituting one Caribbean port for another. I'm talking radical changes and eliminating large portions of an advertised itinerary in locations that are not as often journeyed. Changes suspiciously falling like dominos on some cruise routes, as each cruise passes the no penalty cancellation date.

Edited 9 hours ago by herbanrenewal

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

This is the heart of the problem - Cruise lines are a service for profit business, hit very hard by the covid era and post covid economy. If I knowingly purchase their product, knowing they have downgraded some of the features I value- everything from thinning staffing to the point that simply assuming your room will be cleaned is a disappointment, cutting entertainment budget, substituting prime menu options for lesser quality - these I knowingly accepted when i purchased cruises over the last couple years. What  I do find harder to contemplate is they are selling a product they have no intention of delivering. All the fuel/environmental issues do not make sense - what part of the cost of operating their vessels did they not know, that required radical changes to itinerary.  I'm not talking substituting one Caribbean port for another. I'm talking radical changes and eliminating large portions of an advertised itinerary in locations that are not as often journeyed. Changes suspiciously falling like dominos on some cruise routes, as each cruise passes the no penalty cancellation date.

Read the cruise contract and then describe exactly what you are purchasing.  Hint: specific ports are not included, twice daily turn down isn't included, prime menu items are not included...

Now how does that relate to the lines selling a product that have no intention of delivering?

[herbanrenewal]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

Read the cruise contract and then describe exactly what you are purchasing.  Hint: specific ports are not included, twice daily turn down isn't included, prime menu items are not included...

Now how does that relate to the lines selling a product that have no intention of delivering?

There is a difference between missing a port due to situations occurring during a cruise, like weather, political, or mechanical issues and selling itineraries they will not and have no intention of delivering. The simple fact is that on some routes each cruise as it passes the 120 day mark, and cancellation is no longer penalty free, there is a sudden radical change (and usually the same change as the preceding cruise).  Don't get me wrong, I'm still cruising. In the next 18 months I have 9 cruises booked. I still want to cruise. However, I will probably never book a more remote part of the world. If I decide to go to Thailand instead of a southeast Asia cruise, it isn't because that is my first choice, its because I'm not travelling half way around the globe and not getting the product I purchased.

[julig22]

2 hours ago, luv2kroooz said:

Mate, I see NCL acknowledging the inconvenience to guests yet they don't allow passengers to cancel without penalty. When they allow a penalty free cancellation, my position will change. Until then, it is clear and it isn't even close.

I've been on about 25 NCL cruises and up until recently most pre-cruise itinerary changes had been more or less expected, mostly for political reasons - but new ports added, not more sea days. And I've had my share of missed ports due to weather. I'm good with those. I do sail for itinerary but I'm flexible to a degree - but my December trip on the Dawn has been gutted to a point that I'm considering the forfeit. Taking 36 hours to get to the port while knowing in advance that I'm no longer on the itinerary I wanted just doesn't set right. If I just wanted a cruise I could do that without flying to the other side of the world. And there's no compensation offered from NCL. 

I agree that NCL needs to stop with the non-substantiated changes after final payment - or offer refunds. I'd be OK with FCC but I should be able to choose whether or not I'm still interested. Wonder how much additional income NCL gets from reselling cabins.

[RocketMan275]

37 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

There is a difference between missing a port due to situations occurring during a cruise, like weather, political, or mechanical issues and selling itineraries they will not and have no intention of delivering. The simple fact is that on some routes each cruise as it passes the 120 day mark, and cancellation is no longer penalty free, there is a sudden radical change (and usually the same change as the preceding cruise).  

The simple fact is the cruise line isn't selling cruises to specific ports.  Read the cruise contract.  It says:  "(1) The following Terms and Conditions together with your specific booking information form the basis of your contract of carriage with NCL (Bahamas) Ltd. (also referred to herein as ‘NCL’), trading as Norwegian and/or Norwegian Cruise Line, a limited liability company incorporated in Bermuda, and are incorporated into the contract...." and

 

"(2) Your cruise holiday fare includes all meals in the main dining rooms, snack and buffet restaurants, entertainment on board ship (unless part of a dining entertainment production), numerous activities on-board, the use of many on-board facilities, detailed port briefings, port charges, departure taxes, baggage handling, and where part of your contracted holiday arrangements, flights, hotel stays (room only) and transfers between airport, hotel and ship (for flight inclusive cruises or where purchased at the same time as making your cruise only booking). ..."

 

You'll note that itineraries are not included.

[Crazy planning mom]

3 hours ago, PartyPlannerLady said:

It is very humorous to read all the posts from people who got no explanation or one they did not like who then go on to make unfounded and illogical ASSumptions about the cause of cancellations.   

People have posted their correspondence from NCL on these boards.  And, I saw your rude comment above.  No need to get your panties in a bunch.  This isn't personal. 

[herbanrenewal]

17 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

 

You'll note that itineraries are not included.

I'm aware of the content of the contracts. I don't need to be a lawyer to understand the wording. It seems that you expect when you buy a 10day cruise that they could take you anywhere. Or nowhere. That there is no reasonable expectation of you getting to the advertised destinations. That the passenger is saying if i get on the boat it can take me anywhere or nowhere, with no obligation to provide the services including transportation to ports as advertised. Advertising a product with no intention of delivering is bait and switch.

 

addendum - I was on the last Royal cruise out of Baltimore at the start of the pandemic - a 12day Caribbean adventure where every port except one refused to let us disembark. It turned out to be a great long cruise to nowhere. And Royal gave us FCC in the amount we paid for the cruise. No problem to me - I enjoyed the cruise and was very happy with their compensation in an event totally out of their control. Quite a difference from NCL selling something they have no intention of delivering.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by herbanrenewal

[luv2kroooz]

5 minutes ago, herbanrenewal said:

It seems that you expect when you buy a 10day cruise that they could take you anywhere. Or nowhere. That there is no reasonable expectation of you getting to the advertised destinations.

Well said. What a silly, low standard that user subscribes to. Next they'll say well, the contract doesnt say they have to offer lunch or dinner. Thank god the rest of the cruise industry has established higher standards by routinely delivering the advertised products.

[Seas2mountains]

25 minutes ago, julig22 said:

I've been on about 25 NCL cruises and up until recently most pre-cruise itinerary changes had been more or less expected, mostly for political reasons - but new ports added, not more sea days. And I've had my share of missed ports due to weather. I'm good with those. I do sail for itinerary but I'm flexible to a degree - but my December trip on the Dawn has been gutted to a point that I'm considering the forfeit. Taking 36 hours to get to the port while knowing in advance that I'm no longer on the itinerary I wanted just doesn't set right. If I just wanted a cruise I could do that without flying to the other side of the world. And there's no compensation offered from NCL. 

I agree that NCL needs to stop with the non-substantiated changes after final payment - or offer refunds. I'd be OK with FCC but I should be able to choose whether or not I'm still interested. Wonder how much additional income NCL gets from reselling cabins.

This is horrible! I'm so sorry. What will you do if you cancel?

 

I also would be okay with the changes if we had the choice to get a refund or FCC.

 

[yakcruiser]

Just because NCL can legally change itineraries doesn't make it right. I wonder if some folks would be okay with NCL only serving beans OR rice in the MDR? Legally they can.

[Seas2mountains]

Here is a recent example. Four of seven ports dropped. Two ports added. Two Sea Days added. Only two ports on the original itinerary are on the same day as two of the seven got changed to different days. That means that if you spent time planning your day, NCL will cancel all excursions for the four dropped ports plus the two ports that have date changes. 

Now those on this cruise have to check back on the NCL website or app to wait for NCL to add the excursions (if they do) and spend the time to plan their whole cruise vacation with excursions.

 

Slightly better notification at 154 days. Can you imagine trying to scramble if you have your vacation approved for those who work, plans made for someone to watch your pets,  flights booked, hotels booked, transfers booked, excursions planned and booked and now you have to figure out if the trip is worth it or not? These flights are not inexpensive.

The letter is posted. Why is NCL justified in making this change so close to final payment date? I realize they can but is this ethical? I say it is not.

 

[Seas2mountains]

I have one more recent example to add. But it will be better to post it on the next page.

This next one has a canceled port that was not on the port schedule of cruise ships in August but it took until October to notify passengers about the port cancelation.

What if you planned a wedding in that port - which we know could be canceled due to weather but still that is not okay.

[Seas2mountains]

Here is the other one. This one is at 132 days before final payment. It's probably not as big of an impact to those sailing from the New York area but a bigger deal for those who have been wanting to go to St. Lucia.

 

One port dropped and a sea day added. All six remaining ports have time changes which may be no big deal or may require coordination with a private tour provider. 

Dates for two of the ports are changed which will mean all excursions at these two ports with date changes plus the canceled port will get canceled by NCL with refunds issued. Passengers will have to watch NCL app or website to wait patiently for a few weeks to see if they will add excursions or not.

If you are booked on the Escape out of New York this Spring, do you wonder if your itinerary might also get changed? Hmmm. I don't bet in the casino but I might be a winner on this one if I did based on recent patterns.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Seas2mountains

[Seas2mountains]

Check this out. From the St. Lucia cruise schedule (not Cruise Mapper or other websites that might not get updated as often).

 

https://www.slaspa.com/index.php/seaports/more-seaports/cruise

 

When you click on the cruise schedule, it says on the link that it is as of Oct. 8th. I made the mistake of reading the date in the upper right corner of the document thinking 08/10/24 was August 10th but I forgot it is in European date format with Day/Month/Year.

 

https://www.slaspa.com/media/attachments/2024/10/10/updated-cruise-schedule-2024-2025-as-of-8-oct-2024pdf.

The Escape was supposed to be in St. Lucia on March 1st. See the space is blank. Someone on  CC will blame it on St. Lucia not having availability because they think there is no way that NCL would cancel their port so close to final payment date.

Cruise mapper does show Escape in St. Lucia on March 1st.

 

[mking8288]

33 minutes ago, Seas2mountains said:

Here is the other one. This one is at 132 days before final payment ... a bigger deal for those who have been wanting to go to St. Lucia.
... do you wonder if your itinerary might also get changed? Hmmm. Idon't bet in the casino but I might be a winner on this one if I did based on recent patterns.

 

 

Classic and an established m.o. (modus operandi) on NCL's part - what was annoying is that, we didn't get notified at 130+ days or 120 days upon final payment, not at 90 days but rather, delivered into all the staterooms onboard the ship during the evening ... what a surprise, to see a "welcome" letter with the captain's digitized signatory name on the stationary.   This was on our 15 Days Caribbean "Getaway" and of course, we're wondering about the DR stop and which dock/pier ... 

 

I

 

Sure, unforeseen circumstances - except the drivers, tours and everyone on the other island knew about it, prepared for and expecting our ship to dock there - not going to Saint Lucia.  

 

I supposed NCL operations expert recalculated using the latest tidal tables for arrival and sailaway time, to sail and sustain and optimize for minimal fuel used, for our convenience ... NOT.  

 

We booked the next winter Caribbean getaway with the other line, very simple - arrival is 8 AM and 6 PM departing, thus all abroad 30 minutes prior.  

Edited 6 hours ago by mking8288

[Seas2mountains]

1 minute ago, mking8288 said:

 

 

Classic and an established m.o. (modus operandi) on NCL's part - what was annoying is that, we didn't get notified at 130+ days or 120 days upon final payment, not at 90 days but rather, delivered into all the staterooms onboard the ship during the evening ... what a surprise, to see a "welcome" letter with the captain's digitized signatory name on the stationary.   This was on our 15 Days Caribbean "Getaway" and of course, we're wondering about the DR stop and which dock/pier ... 

 

I

 

Sure, unforeseen circumstances - except the drivers, tours and everyone on the other island knew about it, prepared for and expecting our ship to dock there - not going to Saint Lucia.  

 

I supposed NCL operations expert recalculated using the latest tidal tables for arrival and sailaway time, to sail and sustain and optimize for minimal fuel used, for our convenience ... NOT.  

 

We booked the next winter Caribbean getaway with the other line, very simple - arrival is 8 AM and 6 PM departing, thus all abroad 30 minutes prior.  

Yes, that is it exactly. The passengers are the last to know. We had a change like this on the Escape in May 2023 where they changed the dates for two ports and notified us at embarkation. 

 

We love NCL for so many reasons but this is getting too frustrating to be treated like this. 

[Travelling2Some]

13 hours ago, thistimeplease said:

Depends on who you ask.  I would be very disappointed to miss Bermuda and get an extra day in NY.  

Well, I guess I could go home and water my plants a day early, HaHa.  But seriously, I think it is likely that everyone who is local to NYC was disappointed while an evening in New York is a no-brainer compared to nightlife in Bermuda if you don't live in or close to NY.

 

We had a Bermuda stop cancelled in the waning days of the pandemic.  The change was welcomed by most as we were on a TA rather than having Bermuda as our chief objective.  At the time, the Bermuda government was still bent on having everyone jump through hoops to visit and it seemed most on our sailing just wanted to get to Europe and were happy the port was dropped.

 

I would guess that most cruisers who live in NY have been to Bermuda many times so this would very much depend on where you live and if you have been to Bermuda (which is lovely) previously.  In short, you are correct to say "It depends on who you ask".

[Travelling2Some]

53 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

Sure, unforeseen circumstances - except the drivers, tours and everyone on the other island knew about it, prepared for and expecting our ship to dock there - not going to Saint Lucia.  

We had the same happen on the Dawn in Finland this year.  The passengers are seemingly always the last to know.  We woke up in the "wrong" port one morning and people who had booked private excursions likely lost their money since they were not able to give their tour companies the required notice.  When we went ashore it was obvious that the locals had been expecting our ship for many days.