HAL .....I've Been Thinking!!!

[sail7seas]

Recent threads have gotten me to thinking about what direction I think HAL may be going in and what things about 'my imagined' direction I like and welcome.

 

This is all only my personal perspective on what I think I'm watching HAL evolve into and I'm starting to think it just might work fine.......for DH and me.

 

I think we are going to see more of: Pay a reasonable price for your cabin but it comes with bare bones basics. We'll provide housekeeping services, safety and security and transportation from port to port.

 

I think just about everything else will be Pay as you Go.

 

I think we will pay for food same as in any shore side hotel/restaurant. There will be little if anything included in our fare.

 

I think there will be charge to see the show.......same as any entertainment venue such as Las Vegas etc

 

Bars, of course, we now pay for.

 

Use of the gym will have varying charges. Want to take a 'membership' for the duration of the cruise? That will cost you to use the treadmills, stairsteppers etc

 

Of course, spa and salon are already charge for services.

 

Club HAL will be a fee.

 

Use of Internet will remain a charge item.

 

It's highly possible the Captain's Welcome Aboard party could cease.

 

I'm almost starting to think it isn't all bad for us to only pay for what we like and want. Not pay for what we don't want.

 

We don't use Club HAL.....but yet contribute to its existence through our fare.

We don't go to shows hardly ever......but contribute.

We use the gym and would consider it appropriate we pay for it.

We don't drink lemonade so don't care if they stop serving it.

We like iced tea. We'd agree to pay for it.

 

How about you? What do you think?

 

Do you see what I'm saying as 'possible' in the near future or am I way off the mark, in your opinion?

[kakalina]

It may be possible Sails, but if it happens I guarantee I will be choosing an all inclusive line at that point. If I even continue to cruise.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Sail, first of all it's very dangerous for you (or me) to be thinking:D :D ... you have to watch that!!! Gets us into all kinds of trouble.

 

But seriously, you would know far better than I if all this will come to pass. For much of it I would be fine. But for much of it I would not.

 

One of the many attributes about cruising is the "all inclusiveness" of it. People like knowing up front that this is the price and that even though there may be some extras, they can get by with the fare they are paying.

 

If they are going to charge for the entertainment, they are going to have to improve it enormously.

 

If they're going to charge for meals, they're going to have to provide more choices (just like in most restaurants).

 

Those are the only two items you mention that would bother me. We don't use Club HAL (unless they start having one for seniors;) ), we don't go to the Captain's Welcome Party since the ships became so huge. We don't use the gym or the internet.

 

So with these changes, we would probably still cruise if they make a lot of changes to compensate for the charges. If they keep their current entertainment and charge for it, that is going to be one empty show lounge:o .

[RevNeal]

Sail,

 

Rather than removing fundamental things like meals and entertainment, I see the Line adding additional options for additional fees. Thus far, has ANY cruise line done what you've outlined and gone to an ENTIRELY "pay as you go" scenario? Has HAL begun charging for any entertainment (other than Casino)? HAL doesn't charge for the Lido, for Room Service, and for Main Dining Room meals. They DO charge for the Pinnacle, and there's going to be yet another Premium dining room on the new Signature damship, but that doesn't mean that they're going to drop the inclusive options. Quite the contrary, from things that others (in "the know") have written, it seems clear that their ability to offer Premium dining for an extra-fee DEPENDS upon there being "normal" mass-service venues (the MDR and Lido).

 

I'm not certain that it's going as far as you suspect. It might ... but I just don't see it. Not yet. There is a big difference charging extra for premium dining and other special perks, on the one hand, and on the other REMOVING features that are integral to the package (like Main Dining room and Lido meals).

 

Of course, I could be entirely wrong.

[sail7seas]

This is all merely my own speculation but I can imagine this Pay As You Go idea being the future of dining on cruise ships. I also foresee there being a charge in the near future for Room Service.

 

The first hint of that came when Suites were told they could have hors d'ouerves for a small number of people delivered for no additional charge but, apparently (as I have read here), there is a charge for larger amounts. I've never ordered them for two let alone twenty so don't know that personally.

 

I agree Rev that busy minds are trying to find additional things to offer on the ships that we don't currently see.......and, or course, there will be a charge for them. That suits me fine. It's a choice. You like it? Fine, buy it. You don't like it? Fine, don't buy it.

 

I think we all understand and accept the concept they need to make money from sources other than the basic fare.

 

They have to fill the cabins and to do that have to keep the prices at a level that people will pay. Then they have to get us to spend while aboard.

 

 

[noblepa]

I don't think that what you describe will happen anytime soon, at least not to that extent.

 

If they were to charge for meals in the dining room and drop the price of the cabin to, say, $200 pp for a seven day cruise, it might be a wash, in terms of cost to the customer. But, if they try to charge for meals on top of the current price structure, the total cost of a cruise would skyrocket.

 

You can refrain from seeing the shows. You can refrain from using the gym. But, you can't refrain from eating.

 

There might be a market for such a "no frills" (eating is a frill?) cruise line, but I don't think that HAL would go that far.

 

One of the reasons that many of us here cruise, is that we know, overall, that cruising is a remarkable value, compared to a land-based vacation of similar duration and location. I think that this perception is a large component of what is driving the thriving cruise industry. If that perception changes much, I think that the industry, as a whole, will suffer.

 

If they started charging for meals in the dining room, they'd better double the size of the Lido restaurant, which would almost certainly be a lower cost.

 

Will the cost of cruising rise? Certainly. Will they find ways to charge for some things that are included in your fare now? Probably.

 

The trend I see right now is that the lines are adding more features to their ships that are not considered traditional shipboard activitues. I'm thinking of RCCL's rock-climbing walls and putting greens. Carnival just announced a deal to put water-balloon throwing facilties on their ships.

 

There also seems to be a short-term trend toward additional alternative dining venues. You may see two or more versions of the Pinnacle Grill, with different styles of food.

 

If they started charging for food (other than Pinnacle-type venues), you would see people actually smuggeling groceries onboard. I'm not kidding. Go to the Carnival boards. You see disccusions all the time about people bringing on coolers of beer and soft drinks, or questions such as "can I bring on three case of beer, or six cases of soft drinks?".

 

I can't see anything quite as draconian as you suggest happening any time soon.

 

But, I've been wrong before....

 

Paul Noble

[happy cruzer]

I don't think the cruiseline want to lose the distinction of the included food and entertainment. then they are in direct competition with land based vacations.

 

If they can't beat the land based competition, I will vote for staying on land in a bigger room with bigger hotel facitlities like the pool, dining rooms, resort facilities, etc. Also on land you will have the entire islands, or cities restaurents to choice from. On a ship I would be afraid of being trapped with my choice compared to the land, where you can leave one hotel or restaurent and get to another pretty easily.

 

I think the cruise would still have to provide some value and uniqueness. a floating hotel won't be enough unless it leaves from your home port. If you have to pay airfare anyway, most would fly to the destination, just my opinion.

 

I think the cruise will evolve but they can't go so far as to be just like a land vacation.

[SnorkelBear]

There will always be a market for the product HAL currently has. If you want to pay as you go, that exists also. It's called easyCruise. When it succeeds, there will be more. There will always be a large number of people that prefer a semi-all-inclusive package. I know I do.

[hammybee]

Oh Oh. Sail has been thinking....:)

 

Passengers who are willing to pay more for a premium experience have alternatives. Passengers looking for bargains have alternatives. And in the mean time, the mid -market cruise lines seem to be challenged to fill their ships and maintain the quality and tradition of the experience. They often have to go toe-to toe with Carnival, NCL and RCCL in terms of base price to fill their ships. In effect, they have to offer more, at a competitive price and as time goes by it becomes increasingly challenging to make a buck in an enviornment where a balcony fire might cause tens of thousands of potential passengers to believe that sailing is unsafe.

 

It is not unreasonable to think that at some future date, on board services and experiences might be unbundled as they increasingly are in our every day lives. Cable TV, for example offers a basic service and then optional updraded services and of course, the Premium package is the "Best Value", or so we are told. Municipalities that used to offer tennis and pools now usually require residents who want to use these facilities to pay extra for them.

 

The Chicago Tribune, this past Sunday, did a spash about cruising niches, bowling alleys, movies under the stars, ice skating, Disney charaters, cultural enrichment, well -known speakers, entertainers and chefs. HAL did not make the list. I guess our beloved YUM-YUM Men and a traditional sailing experience did not have sufficient sex appeal to make the article.

 

Sail, you did not ask how we might feel about potential changes on the horizon and all things considered, I really don't know. Many on this board once felt they would never sail Vista Class or pay a premium for an onboard dining experience. Most of us never imagined the possibility that there might be a waitlist for a up charge beach cabana on HMC, so certain were we that the concept would fail.

 

It is obvious that most consumers want choices and are willing to pay a premium for those that they value.

 

Thanks for the thought provoking thread, Sail.

[RevNeal]

This is all merely my own speculation but I can imagine this Pay As You Go idea being the future of dining on cruise ships. I also foresee there being a charge in the near future for Room Service.

 

LOL ... I can't shake the mental image of you wearing Johnny Carson's Swamy Headgear and holding an envelope to your forehead. :D ;)

[jhannah]

If they charged for shows, the shows would go away. Most people probably wouldn't pay it. Most shows have been fabulous. But there are some I'd demand my money back had I paid! ;)

 

Charging a la carte for food? I can't see that happening. As Paul said, folks would be bringing as much food onboard as they could. And that would end one of the biggest things a cruise ship has going for it over a land-based resort.

 

And you can bet it would not result in lower base fares. Such arrangements would simply be revenue enhancements.

 

Sorry. Not for me. (But I don't doubt that the current trends could eventually morph into this.)

 

Interesting thoughts.

[serendipity1499]

If & when that happens, we'll probably stop cruising!:) Betty

[Krazy Kruizers]

Pay as we go??

 

HMMM --- Hope they have senior citizen discounts for the gym & ect. Around here DH's Athletic Club is free - Silver Slippers!! Many restaurants offer senior discounts if you dine at a certain time. Movie theatres have Wednesday specials for seniors.

 

Could possibly be an idea.

[helenp2]

It works for me. We would love an "ala carte" type menu where we could pick and choose what we would like to pay for. Much like you, we never go to any of the shows, have no need for club hal, only eat a full lunch on sea days, while DH likes to eat a large breakfast, I am happy with juice, coffee, and a bagel. We already pay for our internet use, spa, drinks, etc. So for people like us this would actually be less expensive. Hope HAL considers it.

[hammybee]

Another thought........

 

Group charters are becoming increasingly popular. Atlantis and Olivia bring on top name entertainment and charge a premium and sell out. ( And one of these days this middle-aged mom is going to book one of these cruises cause it matters nothing to me, someone's preference for partner.) The success of Master Chef and Jazz cruises demonstrates that people are willing to pay a premium for something beyond the typical cruise experience, so long as the price remains in the realm of reasonable.

 

Is it any wonder that HAL finds it challenging to fill a ship when the incremental draw is sailing with the head of Mariner Program?

[SnorkelBear]

Sorry Krazy,

 

No discounts. That would be someone else subsidizing your cruise. I think they could go with my original plan of paying by the pound. Scale in, scale out, pay for gain.

[lougee1043]

Sail,

 

. Thus far, has ANY cruise line done what you've outlined and gone to an ENTIRELY "pay as you go" scenario? .

 

easyCruise in europe runs a bare bones type of cruise -- no maid service --pay for your meals etc

[Sueseb]

My first reaction was, "that's crazy". But, when I thought about it for a minute, it is not so crazy. We use very few of the amenities, only go to a few shows. Our first and only visit to the Pinnacle was not a raving success, so we tend to avoid that. So, if most things were pay as you go we would probably be fine with it. However, I don't think all meals should be included in that, perhaps that is the one thing that could remain included. There is nothing better than a specialty coffee (paid for), a good book and watching the sea go by. Sue

[the2ofus]

Sail7Seas, what you are describing would not be the cruise line I have come to know and love. We're talking about the difference between a cruise as we have come to understand the term, and basic transportation from one port to another.

 

Unless they drastically lowered the price of the cruise itself, I would move on to another all-inclusive cruise line. Even with a lowered up-front cruise price, I'd think twice about choosing HAL unless the itinerary was something really special.

 

Quite honestly, I don't use the schools in my home town either, since my kids are long grown. I don't use the services of the many social support agencies either. I still pay taxes to support them, because it improves my quality of life to live in a community with a good school system and a system to care for the poor, aged and infirm. It's true I have to pay to attend the concerts and theater options in the area, but they couldn't exist if my taxes didn't support the buildings that house them.

 

I look at a HAL cruise ship and it's amenities as a similar kind of community. If they want to charge extra for the "icing on the cake" stuff, fine. Just leave the basic product alone.

[HoneyGV]

Sail,

I can see them possibly adding MORE "pay for" options, but I don't see them dropping the price of the bare bones cruises to do it. I believe that we would just pay MORE in addition to what we're paying now.

I also don't believe that HAL has a problem filling the ships. They don't lose anything by giving a few upgrades to fill the cabins.

I hope cruises do NOT go "Ala Carte"...the ONE thing that cruisers LOVE is the all inclusiveness to cruising...especially on the general all inclusive services they now provide.

(If they start charging me daily for my fruitbowl in my suite...I don't know what I'll do):D

[hammybee]

 

It does not appear that HAL has problems filling their ships because HAL seriously discounts sailings, especially when the intinerary is common to many cruise lines.

 

Do you think HAL can continue to compete if they did not go toe-to toe with Carnival, NCL and RCCL prices? To compete, HAL , like all others, needs to create venues that will compel passengers to spend beyond the "all inclusive" rates.

 

The profitability of a cruise is tied to how much passesgers spend on optional, unbundled items and services.

[SnorkelBear]

Sounds reasonable Hammy. It actually sounds sort of like a question I posed that got blasted by some. Offer a mass market cruise at a mass market price and let people choose if they would like to upgrade some parts of their cruise experience.

 

It would then offer a cruise experience somewhere between say HAL and SeaBourne. Conversely, if SeaBourne offered me a heavily discounted broom closet of a cabin, but I could enjoy the rest of the perks, I would jump on that too.

[arzz]

Sorry to say it Sail -- but what you describe would not be a cruise experience and we would just not do it.

 

The attraction of All inclusive vacations, whether they be land based or sea based, is that for the basics, (room, food and transportation) you are covered and know in advance what the trip will cost. Additional costs are for "extras" that you choose, or don't. On a sea vacation the basics come with some incredible service and pampering -- creating a unique experience that keep so many of us coming back. There is also the advantage of getting to many places while only unpacking once.

 

Already, those who wish a premium experience on a mid-priced line pay for the suites which include the Neptune lounge and the additional pampering and special attentions that go with that experience. This is a choice. Those who wish for a different dining experience pay extra for it (to our mind, however, no matter how nice the Pinnacle is, it is not worth it -- we are simple folk who are always delighted or at least satisfied, with regular dining room fare -- we have found the Pinnacle to be nice but not really worth any extra cash).

 

True we do not all use all of the facilities, but I guarantee that we are not paying for all of them in our cruise fare. Just as in government, everyone pays taxes but some folk benefit more at times from government services than others (e.g. have children in the school, get government aid during a natural disaster, etc) -- I am sure the cruise line financial structure takes into account that not everyone uses club HAL and some of us only eat three meals a day. The cruise lines are not losing money. In fact in recent years they have devised all sorts of venues to gain additional cash (e.g. on board wine tastings, culinary classes, art auctions, photos at incredibly high prices, etc.) Removing the basics from the included fare could, in my mind, cause the industry to implode.

 

NCL has tried to remove food from the basics by structuring a large number of alternative restaurants on board their ships at various tariffs. There are those who like to cruise this way but I wonder how the bottom line is for NCL as I have seen their cruises, over and over again, on heavy discount these past few months? Could it be that these policies are hurting their bottom line?

 

For those willing to pay ala carte -- Let them eat cake and find a cruise line that fits their needs and expansive pocket books -- but 60-70% of what attracts us back to the Sea isn't only the ocean, it is the value and pleasure that we receive on board enjoying a pampered and pre-paid life style. Now that is carefree living!

[hammybee]

Sounds reasonable Hammy. It actually sounds sort of like a question I posed that got blasted by some. Offer a mass market cruise at a mass market price and let people choose if they would like to upgrade some parts of their cruise experience.

 

It would then offer a cruise experience somewhere between say HAL and SeaBourne. Conversely, if SeaBourne offered me a heavily discounted broom closet of a cabin, but I could enjoy the rest of the perks, I would jump on that too.

 

Yeah, I noticed the commonality of the threads.

 

I think I read somewhere once that it is better to sail in a broom closet on a high end line than the penthouse of a low end line ( not comparing HAL to either).

[the2ofus]

Hmmm....imagine if Club HAL required an add-on charge for each child or each hour. Wonder how many parents would just decide to let the little darlings roam free so as to save $ they could use to splurge on other things.:eek: