Lesson Learned... “we have your money.”

[pamkev]

Pam, the rate drop that I and some of the others you are cruising with was a special senior rate. The rate the poster is talking about is the happy hour rate. $449 inside and $499 outside for a 13 day cruise. That is where I saw it posted on a happy hour and Xciting deals page.. It is a special sale from Oct. 1 to Oct 6 for new bookings only. It is cheaper than what the rest of us got even with our senior deal. Happy hour specials are great if you can just drop everything and go. Some of us have to plan ahead. That said I am telling everyone I know about it because it is the deal of the century. Pat

 

I'm telling everyone also. I have other motives though, if they book they have to buy me a drink for telling them about this, so far no takers, LOL

[pamkev]

Hi haven't seen you in a few weeks.

 

Our CC party went from your #51 to 62. How was the baby shower?

 

Did you find out about your Airtran time change? We are on the same flight and haven't heard anything.

 

The last time I checked it was to leave at 1:20 instead of 1:30

[lovethewater1214]

OK-I give up ....where is this Xciting deals page???

Pam

[CaliforniaDreamin]

OK-I give up ....where is this Xciting deals page???

Pam

 

It's here.

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/sales/happy_hour/XcitingDeals_CEL_tues.pdf

[RodPat]

Thanks John for posting that website for the Xciting deals. I have it book marked and look every week at it even if I don't have time to cruise. Was away from the computer yesterday so did not have time to post. Pat

[lysolqn]

What happened to the good ol' days when booking early meant you got the lowest price, as well as a guarantee that if the price fell, you'd be refunded the difference between what you booked at and the lower price? The closer to sailing you booked, the more you paid. Now it's the other way around. Fare-wise, the cruise industry is worse than the airlines - more fares than you can shake a stick at and no two people on the same ship pay the same fare for the same category cabin. Celebrity was supposed to level the playing field for all travel agents when it stopped the policy of agent discounting; here's a novel idea, how about leveling the field for paying passengers?

[judyush]

Do folk in the UK qualify for these "Xciting price deals"?

[Snow Road Cruisers]

What happened to the good ol' days when booking early meant you got the lowest price, as well as a guarantee that if the price fell, you'd be refunded the difference between what you booked at and the lower price? The closer to sailing you booked, the more you paid. Now it's the other way around. Fare-wise, the cruise industry is worse than the airlines - more fares than you can shake a stick at and no two people on the same ship pay the same fare for the same category cabin. Celebrity was supposed to level the playing field for all travel agents when it stopped the policy of agent discounting; here's a novel idea, how about leveling the field for paying passengers?

 

You recaped my feelings! I find it very odd that one or two replies enjoy paying more for the same cruise than last minute shoppers, not us. First in line, lowest fair. I travel one of two days a week, yesterday I told the airline that they have a open seat on a flight I need for today, so I want a lower fare...of course you know te answer. Cruise lines must make money, but play fair, if you post a sale at a lower cost, allow all to enjoy.

[garykool81]

Unless we all want our favorite cruise lines to go out of business or start sailing half full, I'd suggest using a little reasonable thinking here. This practice is not even close to being unique to this particular business or industry.

 

If a hotel realizes that it has more vacant rooms scheduled to be open this week than it desires for budgeting purposes, it is going to make rates more appealing to those booking for that select time period in an effort to fill as much vacancy as possible, still walking away with some cash in the process. However, it is beyond unreasonable to expect that the hotel (unless you want to see them close up shop) would call back EVERY customer who booked their room for that week, whether the reservation was made a month or a year ago, and suddenly offer a 50 percent discount.

 

If I book an airline ticket at a non-refundable, discounted rate six mnoths in advance and fares suddenly drop as a result of forcasted market conditions three weeks later, guess what? Tough luck for me. I accepted the price offered to me. Weeks later, they realized that pricing for that flight needed to be more competitive in order to fill empty seats. Again, is American Airlines calling back the other 100 passengers to give them 20 percent off? No way! Nor, would I expect them to. They have a business with bills to pay.

 

The cruise industry, I would argue, is one of the most liberal in this field with a policy that you can actually receive an extra discount on rates you've already agreed to so long as final payment has not been made. It is again entirely reasonable that as last minute approaches, the line will do whatever it needs to within expectations to fill vacancy. That does NOT include reducing every other passenger's cruise fare, hence losing massive sums of money.

 

This has happened to me before, and I deal with it as a result of MY decision to potentially pay more for the luxury of booking a year in advance and having more options for airfare/hotel, etc. If you want those low rates, be my guest, and wait until a month or less in advance to book. Sure, you'll get the rate you want. Now, have fun booking that airline ticket at a likely far higher price, having a limited selection of hotels, rental cars, etc., and good luck getting your vacation request at work approved last minute.

 

Sorry, I can't even believe this has become a discussion. It just seems to standard for any business in America to offer certain discounts to some based on purchase period, but not to others.

 

This is a free-market country. We do not live in some sort of socialist state with a government demanding that all consumers pay exactly 25 cents per pencil.

 

Sheesh.

[Snow Road Cruisers]

Unless we all want our favorite cruise lines to go out of business or start sailing half full, I'd suggest using a little reasonable thinking here. This practice is not even close to being unique to this particular business or industry.

 

If a hotel realizes that it has more vacant rooms scheduled to be open this week than it desires for budgeting purposes, it is going to make rates more appealing to those booking for that select time period in an effort to fill as much vacancy as possible, still walking away with some cash in the process. However, it is beyond unreasonable to expect that the hotel (unless you want to see them close up shop) would call back EVERY customer who booked their room for that week, whether the reservation was made a month or a year ago, and suddenly offer a 50 percent discount.

 

 

 

If I book an airline ticket at a non-refundable, discounted rate six mnoths in advance and fares suddenly drop as a result of forcasted market conditions three weeks later, guess what? Tough luck for me. I accepted the price offered to me. Weeks later, they realized that pricing for that flight needed to be more competitive in order to fill empty seats. Again, is American Airlines calling back the other 100 passengers to give them 20 percent off? No way! Nor, would I expect them to. They have a business with bills to pay.

 

The cruise industry, I would argue, is one of the most liberal in this field with a policy that you can actually receive an extra discount on rates you've already agreed to so long as final payment has not been made. It is again entirely reasonable that as last minute approaches, the line will do whatever it needs to within expectations to fill vacancy. That does NOT include reducing every other passenger's cruise fare, hence losing massive sums of money.

 

This has happened to me before, and I deal with it as a result of MY decision to potentially pay more for the luxury of booking a year in advance and having more options for airfare/hotel, etc. If you want those low rates, be my guest, and wait until a month or less in advance to book. Sure, you'll get the rate you want. Now, have fun booking that airline ticket at a likely far higher price, having a limited selection of hotels, rental cars, etc., and good luck getting your vacation request at work approved last minute.

 

Sorry, I can't even believe this has become a discussion. It just seems to standard for any business in America to offer certain discounts to some based on purchase period, but not to others.

 

This is a free-market country. We do not live in some sort of socialist state with a government demanding that all consumers pay exactly 25 cents per pencil.

 

Sheesh.

 

Wo! Good day to you also. Nice of you to be closed minded; this board is for open idea exchanges, not to rant! We have our option and do not appreciate the put downs you posted. You pay want you want and I will still look for bargains that others are allowed and offered.

 

In fact, you can pay twice the listed price and thus your goal of more profits to each line will intensify increase. Please give my best to the other associates of Cruise Industry lobbing group, there in your office/hometown.

[cat616]

Don't let it get you down Garykool81, I read your post thoroughly and I understand the valid point you are making and welcome your open exchange of ideas.

 

Happy Travels

 

Cindy

[tbelian]

this board is for open idea exchanges, not to rant!

 

No ranting on a cyber message board? No ranting on Cruise Critic? What's the world coming to.

 

:D

[Sky Sweet]

My husband and I booked a November cruise on the Constellation a while back, and booked our flights to FLL a few days later. Last week when I found out that Celebrity is now offering a senior citizen rate for our cruise, I called Celebrity who adjusted our rate and processed a refund for the difference during that conversation. By the time I got off the phone, they had already sent me an E-mail confirming those changes. Now they are offering an Xciting deal for new bookings that we are not entitled to, but I look at it this way. If we booked that cruise now, we would be spending a lot more for our airfare than we would have saved on our cabin. In addition, we have an aft CC with a huge balcony, and the CC cabins they currently have available are not nearly as desirable. Instead of being upset about not being entitled to their Xciting deal, which is lower than the senior citizen rate, I am very pleased that Celebrity was willing to give us the senior citizen rate since it wasn't offered until after we made our final payment for this cruise and we had already entered the penalty period for cancelling our cruise.

[junglejane]

Garykool81's post makes perfect sense, and didn't seem like a rant or put-down to me. I'm perfectly aware that after final payment I won't get a reduction, and I'm aware that I can try for a last minute deal. But I don't want the hassles of last minute travel.

 

This reminds me of clothes shopping. (My second favorite activity after cruising.) Clothes usually get marked down after they've been on sale for a while. Sometimes I wait for the markdowns, but maybe my size won't be available anymore. Sometimes I don't want to take that chance so I buy at full price. Sometimes I can get a price adjustment, but only at some stores and only for a limited time. That's just how it works. I don't complain that the sale shopper got a better price than I did. I just enjoy my clothes and my cruise!

[garykool81]

Wo! Good day to you also. Nice of you to be closed minded; this board is for open idea exchanges, not to rant! We have our option and do not appreciate the put downs you posted. You pay want you want and I will still look for bargains that others are allowed and offered.

 

In fact, you can pay twice the listed price and thus your goal of more profits to each line will intensify increase. Please give my best to the other associates of Cruise Industry lobbing group, there in your office/hometown.

 

Actually, I typically pay less. I research heavily before I book to make sure I am getting the best deal that is being offered at that time. Does it mean prices won't change six months later? Nope. But I am certainly satisfied knowing I paid the lowest rate available *right now*, when I am *choosing* to make my reservation. :-)

 

 

Snow Road -- The post wasn't meant as a put down to you, and I apologize if it came off that way. It was more to express frustration at what appears to be a lack of understanding with how retail/hospitality or even the entire supply/demand scheme of things works.

 

I was simply trying to make a very valid, very real point regarding why prices change and why you, as the consumer, cannot expect to pay the exact same rate as all other passengers in your category cabin....or all other guests in the same style room at your hotel....or all other economy passengers on your flight.

 

It's just a fact of life. From a business point of view, I can guarantee you that we'd *all* be paying more if you wanted the promise that everyone would pay the same rate regardless of when they book.

 

If cruise lines, airlines, hotels, etc., were to do away with sudden specials needed to fill up empty space, that would mean *all* other prices would need to be raised across the board in order to compensate for that vacancy loss.

 

IE -- I just booked a cruise for November 2007. I paid $1299 per person. As the date nears, and Oceania Cruises realizes that their ship might sail half full on the less-than popular transatlantic route, they very likely will slash rates for last-minute bookers in an effort to fill up.

 

In the world you are proposing, where everyone would pay the exact same price for the exact same product, the cruise line wouldn't be able to attract those last-minute shoppers with enticing deals offering 50% off, etc. As a result, that vacancy-loss would need to be made up somewhere else. There is only one way to do that, and that would be raising prices across the board for EVERY other passenger.

 

That means my reasonably priced $1299 ticket goes up to $1599 to make up for the fact that the cruise line will have empty cabins generating no revenue and certainly no profit.

 

For further examples, let's use the Real Estate Investment industry I work in as an example. If my apartment community is running at 98.7% occupancy, there is no way I am going to offer prospective residents a month of free rent. Why? Because I don't need to. My community is highly desirable *right now*, and people are willing to pay full market value for my product.

 

Three months from now, in the dead of winter, when demand has reached a seasonal low and my occupancy is sitting at 93.5%, I might be more inclined to offer a month of free rent rather than have a unit sit on the market un-rented for three to four months, netting an even larger loss than my offered concession off market value.

 

Does that mean the folks who signed a lease when we were at the height of the summer season should all be called back and refunded thousands of dollars each? No. They wanted my product when it was the most popular, and they paid more for it.

 

Want another example? Car dealers.

 

We can all recall numerous times when a hot, new car model has come on the market such as the original PT Cruiser. Remember when they were selling at OVER sticker price, because that is what the market was willing to bear? Does that mean that previous customers should all get a refund since they are now having problems selling them at all?

 

Sorry for the numerous examples, and thanks for the kudos from those who "get it." I just want to make it VERY clear that the ability for business owners to raise or slash prices depending on market conditions is NOT a bad thing. It benefits YOU as the consumer just as much as it benefits THEM, the business owner.

[Dick in Falls Church]

WE decided to take an eastern Mediterranean cruise, and my better half decided she had to have a balcony. Since we were on board (transatlantic), she decided that on-board booking with $200 credits would be a good deal.

Some time later, we transferred the booking to an agent.

A week or so ago, I read this or similar thread, checked the Celebrity site, and noted a remarkable reduction in prices.

I contacted the agent, and queried about getting discount from X, even though it was after final payment. If not, how about an upgrade.

Agent called back--no dice on refund, but could get upgraded to a suite for $100 more each.

 

so, my better half will now wallow in luxury, and hopefully not get too used to it. I'd much rather have had cash back, but might as well make lemonade if possible.

[Ted]

Garykool81

 

How dare you be logical on this board? You may offend those who are sufficiently confident in their knowledge that they do not want to have the facts interfere!!!

[giraffenana]

To Gary Kulash - I agree with your reasoning on cruise prices. You are right on with your explainations of the cruise lines filling empty cabins at reduced rates. It means more money for them for the cabins, as well as the cruise passengers spending money on alcohol, photos, and all the merchandise sold in the shops. It also insures that their waiters, room stewards, etc. will get their gratuities from those passengers. What if 1/2 the cabins were empty and the room stewards only got 1/2 the gratuities?

 

I noticed on your signature that you were on the Norway in 5/03. We sailed on her in February/03. You must have been on one of her last cruises. We loved that ship and are so sad that we will never be able to sail on her again. How did you like it?

 

Joy

[toz]

Sorry to interrupt...I was on the Norway in 1993. What a great ship...sorry to see her go.

[Blazerboy]

I was on her when she was the SS France in '67 and '72...really sorry to see her go too...:(

 

(oops, Joyart, didn't read your post so carefully- you already brought the following up...)

 

On topic, one of the things I haven't seen mentioned here is the cost to the cruise line of unsold cabins is FAR GREATER than just the ticket price. One of the reasons cruise lines want to fill empty cabins isn't just to get the $599. last minute fare in the bank, but the fact that that couple who pays the fare are just as likely (if not more so) to spend in the casino, the bars, the specialty restaurants, on shore excursions, etc. The overall potential for lost profit has MUCH less to do with your ticket price. And the percentage of savings overall, on average, is much smaller to the customer. If I pay $1000.00 and you pay $600.00, well, there's a 40% savings on the vacation, right? Wrong. We both might, in a week, spend anther $1000. on photos, shore excursions, wine, drinks, the casino, spa treatments, etc. (I know, you NEVER spend that much...hey, it's an average- you SHOULD be thanking the guy who loses so much in the casino every night;)...HE keeps all fares down!!!! :D ) So, if you will allow my "average" on-board acount example, in the end, your savings for the vacation is really only as little as 20%. Add to that the higher airfare, and less choice for cabin, and I'm quite happy now with my early booking!

 

But, to agree with those who go for price, when I'm retired, and inexpensive cruises leave from a nearby port, I'll be lining up for the cheap fares...so I guess the system works for me.:cool:

 

Oh, and Gary, obviously I agree with you- didn't see your post as a put-down either, but nice of you to apologize...civility is important.:)

 

Andrew

[lysolqn]

I understand discounting unsold cabins as the cruise date nears; after all, half a loaf is better than none and onboard revenue (the real gravy of the industry) generated by latecomers is going to be the same as that generated by those who booked early. What I find interesting is that this marketing practice is the exact opposite of that which was standard in the cruise industry as recently as ten years ago - the earlier you booked, the better the deal you got. With some exceptions, it remains the standard in the rest of the travel industry - booking far enough in advance still gets you lower airfare, hotel and car rental rates. If you don't believe that, just try using frequent flyer miles right before you want to fly... I guess the trick is to book a cruise at a fare you're comfortable with so you'll be less inclined to agonize should there be a price decrease.

[garykool81]

Thanks to those who appreciated the logic in my posts :-)

 

BlazerBoy: Even a more excellent point that you made in your post. I had considered including that information about onboard spending in my previous examples, but I figured I had already become detailed enough with my long book of a post :-)

 

Joy --

 

We were actually never lucky enough to set foot aboard Norway, but I leave it up there on my signature because it was an experience in and of itself. We were scheduled for the very sailing the morning SS Norway had the accident that killed 8 or 9 crew members.

 

After nearly missing our flight down to Florida, and already stressed from the days where I was silly enough to fly down the day of the cruise, we arrived at the ship finally feeling as though we could breathe a sigh of relief.

 

Whoops.

 

Spoke to soon.

 

Our cab was stopped by police only 100 feet maybe from SS Norway, and we were told to immediately turn around, with the police officer saying there had been a "fire" onboard, and that SS Norway "...wasn't sailing today." At this point, there were no other details. Just that there had been a fire, and the cruise was not to be -- talk about a let down.

 

At first, I was pretty angered thinking we were dealing with some silly, small fire that had just ruined my week. After contacting NCL, quite angrily mind you because I was now stuck in Miami for a week with nowhere to stay, go, etc., I was told to wait for a call back.

 

When I was called back about 30 minutes later, the NCL rep informed me that it wasn't a fire, rather an explosion, and that several crew members were dead and seriously injured.

 

That news, of course, immediately changed my attitude and entire lookout on things. Instead of being angry, I now was concerned for those who were hurt, etc., and it was now clear that this wasn't some small fire -- rather a catastrophic accident of some nature.

 

NCL (though I am furious with them for scrapping Norway and doing nothing with SS United States for all these years) was extremely helpful for the rest of the day. They immediately booked my partner and I on a return flight to DC that same day, obviously dishing out a serious penny to do so. They refunded our full cruise price, AND offered a 100 percent discount equal to our cruise ticket value towards a future cruise.

 

Talk about being WOWed from a customer service standpoint...I was very impressed.

 

The Miami airport was packed with thousands (I mean that quite literally) of Norway passengers from the previous cruise and the one that was just canceled. We saw NCL luggage tags EVERYWHERE. We had a chance to speak with a few folks who were onboard, and the descriptions of the blast were shocking. One couple was at the opposite end of the ship from where the boiler incident was, and they said the force of the blast pretty violently shook their room...then the lights went out several seconds later -- talk about scary. I can only imagine what went through their minds.

 

I was so upset to not have had the chance to set foot aboard Norway. I was even more angry when I found out that the ship wasn't returning to service in Spring 2004 as had been promised on their website for so long.

 

We can still cross our fingers that SS United States will sail again, but I highly doubt that given her current condition. Rumor has it that QE2, the last of the great oceanliners, will also meet her fate upon arrival of the new Queen Victoria....which like Queen Mary 2 is more a floating block of condos than a respectable, graceful ocean liner.

 

 

WOW! DID I GET OFF TOPIC OR WHAT?!

 

:-)

[lobby]

We live in the UK and are not eligible for any price reduction after a reservation has been made, even prior to paying the final sum.

 

Also, even though we actually enquired onboard, X only offer seniors discount to US citizens, so we loose out again there as well.

 

We had booked our cruise to Hawaii in March 2007, paid the depost then I saw on celebrity webb site that the cruise price had dropped by £178 pp, I rang our TA and he rang me backed to say Celebrity had given us the lower price. Sure they wouldnot have done it unless we checked and got our TA to ring but any price reduction is gratefully received.

[garykool81]

We had booked our cruise to Hawaii in March 2007, paid the depost then I saw on celebrity webb site that the cruise price had dropped by £178 pp, I rang our TA and he rang me backed to say Celebrity had given us the lower price. Sure they wouldnot have done it unless we checked and got our TA to ring but any price reduction is gratefully received.

 

I think I can recall one case where this has happened to me as well. There is nothing wrong with calling and asking to receive the discount. On an X cruise a little while back, the line started running a series of across the board "resident specials" for those living in MD. I wasn't aware of this when I booked, but they gladly offered it to me afterwards and credited our account about $200 - $300.

 

If they say "yes," fantastic. If they say "no," just don't get mad...see the previous discussion.