QE2 Jan 2008-April 2008 World Cruise

[songanddance]

I don't know how to do it, but it would be wonderful if someone could organize a Roll Call for people who are booked for the January-April 2008 SAPOO (South America, Pacific, and Orient Odyssey) on the QE2 -- and for major portions thereof. This link is wonderful, but it is getting mired down (with my help) on matters that make it difficult to know who will be on board. I know of several people from this link who are booked (for example, durangoscots ladies), but it is would be great to establish a clear link to those who are booked, so that perhaps we might be able to get together (or have the opportunity to do so) from time to time on the voyage.

 

Don

(Lord Kay of Shandon)

 

Don:

 

There is a thread started over on Roll Call - Other Cruise lines. I posted to it the other day to bring it up from page three so we all need to have a thought over there on a regular basis or it will be in the basement again.

 

Evidently, Cunard does not have sufficient posters to get its own Roll Call section so we shall have to go where they place us.

 

Hop over and see who is there so far. I count several solo cruisers and two parties of friends so it is shaping up for a good group. As we get closer to the time of sailing I am sure we can attract more.

 

That being said, I think we may need to keep this thread alive also as an advertisement for the Roll Call as many folks may not know it exists being it falls under "Other Cruise Lines"

 

Charlie

[travel-to-go]

Until last May tips were expected. The Restaurant and Cabin staff were positively begging for money on the last day (so much so that it spoilt an already watered down breakfast). Sometime between Christmas '05 and May '06 things were changed to stop that begging (at least in Princess and Caronia, It could LL be that Cunard thing those in QG have so much money they deserve to be fleeced:D ).

 

Malcolm,

Instead of thinking of preserving your money, or that you are being "fleeced", perhaps if you tried to think about things from a different perspective.

 

You have exclaimed many times about your joy of going on the QE2 in Grill Class, and the often superb service that makes it so memorable to you.

These people have given you extraordinary service, providing you with an experience which you cherish, and wish to do over and over again. Because you have chosen to spend your money on going grill, when a "lesser" cabin would provide you with more cruises, perhaps, you have indicated by your choices that you consider choosing a grill experience to be well worth the money you spend, and a good value for you.

 

Would that be less so if you had mediocre service? Would you be less inclined to repeat this journey if your experience were not so positive, service personnel did not remember you from one time to the next, and you were not treated as "special" by the staff? Only you can answer that question.

 

Now, consider that staff. Since they serve you at all kinds of hours, they get their own rest in dribs and drabs, spread throughout the day and night. They wear a uniform, in hot or cold, whether comfortable or not, and are not allowed to exhibit crankiness (like we all are on occasion) sadness, anger, or any other negative "personal" emotion while on duty. They cannot ask to be understood by these people whom they serve so intensely. Rarely do they get treated specially on their birthdays or other special days. (At least, not publicly) They cannot relax over a cup of tea, expertly presented by gloved servers; they cannot ask for a serving of caviar; nor for someone to plump their pillow or bring them ice or tea or fresh towels. They are away from their families, and their countries, cultures, and those things which they love and are familiar with and give them comfort for long periods of time. We all have our comfort zones. They do not get to choose theirs, but must make themselves fit into yours.

 

Now consider your annual salary, or if inherited, your net worth. How hard do you work, relative to the amount you receive or have at your disposal? Do you consider yourself adequately compensated? Or would you like more? Do you have enough money to be comfortable, and maybe not have to work as hard, and be able to do what you want, when you want? Do you have to husband your resources? Would your life be more pleasant if you did not have to think about such things, if you didn't have to worry, or consider where you money is to come from? Would you prefer to have to "beg" to get a decent living wage, never mind insurance for your medical needs, freedom to make your own choices, for living, entertainment, career, and what you wear? Do you aspire to more than your present lot? or are you happy with the status quo? Do you think they might aspire to more than waiting on your (our) every need or whim, politely, impeccably, even if you (we) are in a bad mood, or impervious to them as individuals? Many of these people are trying to save up enough to start their own land-based businesses. May come from countries where they must leave their homes and families, just to make enough to sustain and support their families. I am certain they would not choose to do this if they were independently wealthy.

 

It is well known that they do not make huge salaries to do this work, which can sometimes be demeaning and burdensome. Why would you not want to enhance their lives in thanks for their having done so much to enhance yours?

 

As my ancestors so wisely believed, do not judge man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins. You hate being "bothered" by their begging. Do you think they enjoy begging? Or feeling the need to demean themselves just to make a paltry sum they might send home to family, or save up to be able to live the life they want. Why would you begrudge them what probably means a lot less to you than it does to them. I always think about that when I am parceling out tips. How much more it means to them, and how lucky I am that I am able to go on cruises, and be waited on hand and foot, instead of having to do the waiting, working very hard for others' pleasure.

It makes me feel more generous indeed, when I consider how lucky I am.

 

Karie,

who speaks rhetorically, and hopes that all will think about relative cost vs. value, of both the service and the personnel.

 

P.S. Don, I apologize for continuing to hijack this thread

[pnhmrk]

You have exclaimed many times about your joy of going on the QE2 in Grill Class, and the often superb service that makes it so memorable to you.

 

Karie - I have said that I've eaten in every public restaurant on the QE2. I've eaten more in the Mauretania than I have in the Queens Grill. The Christmas before last we were in the Princess Grill (A holiday on which I particularly remember the begging); in May we were in the PG again (this time no begging) and last Christmas we decided to try Caronia for a longer cruise.

 

In my notes about the Christmas Cruise I commented that the service in the Grills was better, but that it did not make such a difference that I would be willing to pay a lot more for it. I said elsewhere (and others agreed with me) that the main part of going in the Grills was the bigger and better located cabin.

 

These people have given you extraordinary service

 

I don't think that the staff as a whole did give me extraordinary service. The service was good - better than mediocre - but not normally specialised enough to require an additional gratuity. Where a staff member did do something out of the ordinary they would be rewarded but I WILL NOT PAY TWICE FOR THE SAME SERVICE.

 

Now, consider that staff. Since they serve you at all kinds of hours, they get their own rest in dribs and drabs, spread throughout the day and night. They wear a uniform, in hot or cold, whether comfortable or not, and are not allowed to exhibit crankiness (like we all are on occasion) sadness, anger, or any other negative "personal" emotion while on duty. They cannot ask to be understood by these people whom they serve so intensely. Rarely do they get treated specially on their birthdays or other special days. (At least, not publicly) They cannot relax over a cup of tea, expertly presented by gloved servers; they cannot ask for a serving of caviar; nor for someone to plump their pillow or bring them ice or tea or fresh towels. They are away from their families, and their countries, cultures, and those things which they love and are familiar with and give them comfort for long periods of time. We all have our comfort zones. They do not get to choose theirs, but must make themselves fit into yours.

 

Karie - I pay the Cruise fare, I pay the onboard gratuity. Part of the fare goes to pay the wages of the staff, the gratuity goes to the staff (or at least Cunard tells us that it does). They are paid to accept the inconveniences of working on a ship. This was part of my objection about the officers having their families onboard at Christmas - They are paid to run the ship and entertain passengers, not look after their kids. If the staff (crew or officer) want to have a social life aboard they cannot have it at the expense of passengers.

 

How hard do you work, relative to the amount you receive or have at your disposal?

 

That is not relevant. What you should ask is "Do you think the Cruise fare and gratuity represent value for money?"

 

Would you prefer to have to "beg" to get a decent living wage

 

I do not pay for my passage to have the staff begging for tips. If I require something that is outside the scope of the passage fare than I will make a consideration towards that staff member.

 

I am certain they would not choose to do this if they were independently wealthy.

 

Would you? - I'm fairly sure that I wouldn't.

 

Why would you not want to enhance their lives in thanks for their having done so much to enhance yours?

 

I believe that, by paying the onboard gratuity one is making that gesture of thanks. Why do you want me to do it twice?

 

You hate being "bothered" by their begging. Do you think they enjoy begging?

 

I hate the feeling of being cheated. The feeling that I have already paid for something and am then being told I must cough up a second time for the same service. I hate being pestered until I do cough up.

 

who speaks rhetorically, and hopes that all will think about relative cost vs. value, of both the service and the personnel.

 

Karie - I'm not sure where the rhetoric was so, if I've misinterpreted you post I apologise in advance

[Bramcruiser]

I believe that, by paying the onboard gratuity one is making that gesture of thanks. Why do you want me to do it twice?

 

 

Malcolm, well said. I don't think its a matter of someone being cheap or not but if the whole point of putting gratuities onto everyone's account is to ensure everyone pays them in a manner rather than the traditional method of envelopes stuffed with cash on last night then why pay the same token a second time???????

 

I understand that the bar and spa staff don't share in the onboard account gratuities and I understand the 15% gratuities added to those services automatically.

 

In fact if some one person does go over and beyond the expected norm and really does do a good job then I see no problem in shelling out a little extra for that one individual as I did on my 2005 cruise. However, tipping just for the sake of tipping after its already been paid/soon to be paid on checking out seems like double dipping. And why bother paying someone just downright awful who doesn't deserve a tip?

 

I think the world cruise thread has been hijacked. I'd love to do it but that's a big fantasy right now. I'd have to win the lottery and quit my job.

 

David

Whose 5 days on the QE2 is better than none!

[travel-to-go]

Karie - I'm not sure where the rhetoric was so, if I've misinterpreted you post I apologise in advance

Okay,

This is not going to be an easy one.

First, Let me say that I was speaking rhetorically- This is not specifically pointed at you, in it's entirety, Malcolm.

And you are right. I did not make that abundantly clear. I did go back and clarify one or two things- Saying you (we) to make sure it was clear I meant the all-encompassing "you" and not you, personally. I should have done that a bit more. I should also apologize right now, as I get so tired of many posts (from many different sources) which seem to me to be treating the help as though they are sub-human (and no, I am not saying yours do) and -I don't know how to say this- I have seen too many times churlish, arrogant, snobbish "better-than-thou" posts, on many subjects. I guess I have become hypersensitive and maybe see harm and foul where it is not intended, or perhaps anticipate offense, instead of waiting for it to actually happen. So I guess I have tarred you with too broad a brush. When I hear people whining about having to pay tips (at all) I just think they are spoiled babies, and never would these people ever consider working the hours and circumstances at the wages these fine people do. I have come to react (some might say, overreact) to every complaint about tips as though it were these types of people doing the complaining. I have also let my prejudices get the better of me in taking certain aspects of personalities of people that I admit I have not met, and applying them in areas where they are not warranted.

 

So, having swallowed all of that crow in one sitting (and not artistically presented or garnished!) Let me backtrack a bit.

When I say Grill being of a particular value to you, Maybe I should replace the word with Cunard, or QE2, or even just cruising (yes, I know, crossing- whatever- You know what I mean) In other words, what I say isn't specific to Grill cruising. It applies to the lowest inside cabin in the worst noisiest part of the ship. We take ship voyages (see, I avoided the word cruises!) for a reason. Presumably, we feel that it is money well-spent. I think most of us take Cunard, in particular, for a reason. We LIKE the upscale feel of the ship and the service. While I do feel that Cunard's service is not up to the standards that I remember from my first cruises, it is still more so than my everyday life, or even than most other ships and lines. I expect to pay more, and I do.

I also get quite angry (and more recently, confused) about some of the labor issues on board the ship. I have never liked the attitude of some (and this is sometimes prevalent in American society) that treats workers as if they are something less of a human or less deserving,o than certain others. By the same token, I do not like the present atmosphere in this country (among some) that seems to also indicate that someone from a different culture or speaking a different language is also less entitled to our respect and god treatment. I also do not like the greedy attitudes of some businesses that think it is important to pay certain workers (CEO or other top people) exorbitant salaries "so we can get good quality people" and yet go for the lowest possible cost to pay the people who do the actual hard work (often backbreaking, dirty, and thankless work) that drives the company and the economy. Outsourcing, off-shoring, offshore registrations, (We don't want to pay the taxes, but want and demand all of the benefits and protections that the governing authorities can provide) are rampant these days. "Maximize profits" Well, in order to do that, one must cut costs. And often people are the costs. Usually, it is a case of exploitation of those who have few choices. So yes, it makes me angry that we have to pay part of the wages (in enforced tips) of the employees of a profit-making concern. (And that no cruise line registers their ships in the US to avoid paying US wages) A tip should be an appreciation of the service and care, not an expected absolute. I would much rather ships charge what it costs, and allow tipping only if the customer feels an individual has gone above and beyond. And if I want to tip the laundryman for a great job on the laundry, then let me seek him out. Don't take it out of the room steward's tip!

So yeah, maybe I overreacted. And maybe the offending service personnel were rude and obnoxious. I was not present at the times you felt they were practically begging. I cannot tell if you misinterpreted their solicitousness as begging, or if they are so wretchedly paid that they are forced to beg just to get by. Maybe they are lazy greedy souls who just want more! I don't know.

So I guess I deserve a dressing down for being too presumptuous, and maybe for lumping several posters, who, in my estimation, always complain (Sometimes in a haughty and rude manner, IMHO) about the same things over and over. (hmm, like I am doing here) I guess it is a little like the boy who cried wolf. Certain people here tend to be argumentative, and I tend to think the worst when it actually did not happen. I have come to expect it, to the extent that I misjudge, or prejudge.

 

Actually, you were kind and well spoken in your reply to my diatribe. I feel a bit ashamed, as you were kind when I was not as much so. The part about how much we all make or how lucky we are compared to the staff was not meant to be personal. That was meant to be generically speaking.

I don't know what you do, or whether you have disposable income or if you scrimp and save to take these trips. I have had times where I have had to really scrape and take a trip that wasn't what I really wanted, or not go at all. Other times, I have had a little bit of "extra" discretionary money that I chose to spend for a cruise instread of a home improvement or what-have-you. But I always think how lucky I am that I DON'T have to flip burgers, or clerk at Walmart of be a servant-type worker just to barely get by. I never let myself forget how lucky I am, to be born in America, have the schooling and raising that I did, that made me think I could aspire to greater than struggling to get by. For most of us, it is the time and place we were born and how we were raised that gives us what we have. Yes, we strive, but some don't even know what possibilities exist.

 

So I apologize, and also accept yours (for misinterpreting my rhetorical parts- although all communication takes two, I ,too, am at fault there)

 

But my rant still stands when it comes to those (such as last year's round the horn fiasco) who wish to withhold tips from staff for something out of their control, or who treat those who serve us haughtily or as lesser people.

I've probably made things worse with my poor response. I don't speak as eloquently as I once did. and the thoughts come tumbling out sometimes without restraint.

 

I'll back off and hold my judgment.

 

Sincerely,

Karie

[songanddance]

I fear we have veered into on coming traffic with most of the posts on this thread. Since I have long ago figured out how to tip for service, could we return to th heading for this post and get on with our vicarious 2008 cruise as there are only 350 days until actual sail away.

 

Thank you all for the accomodation.

 

Charlie

[Oahucruiser]

I fear we have veered into on coming traffic with most of the posts on this thread. Since I have long ago figured out how to tip for service, could we return to th heading for this post and get on with our vicarious 2008 cruise as there are only 350 days until actual sail away.

 

Greetings from Honolulu where the QE2 has been all day. We have been watching her from our condo as well as on her bridge cam. Having been on her several times, it is always a huge delight to see her in person. ~ ~ As to the 2008 world cruise, I will be on her from New York to Sydney in a Mauretania single. My husband will meet me in Sydney where I will jump ship and we board the Queen Victoria and do the rest of her world cruise. This is counted as a full world cruise and I will get all the perks, on board credit and included gratuities. Crossing the pond on the QM2 to return to New York means enjoying all three queens on one continuous voyage. I sure hope all of the CCers can arrange a place to meet on the QE2 shortly after departure.

[songanddance]

I fear we have veered into on coming traffic with most of the posts on this thread. Since I have long ago figured out how to tip for service, could we return to th heading for this post and get on with our vicarious 2008 cruise as there are only 350 days until actual sail away.

 

Greetings from Honolulu where the QE2 has been all day. We have been watching her from our condo as well as on her bridge cam. Having been on her several times, it is always a huge delight to see her in person. ~ ~ As to the 2008 world cruise, I will be on her from New York to Sydney in a Mauretania single. My husband will meet me in Sydney where I will jump ship and we board the Queen Victoria and do the rest of her world cruise. This is counted as a full world cruise and I will get all the perks, on board credit and included gratuities. Crossing the pond on the QM2 to return to New York means enjoying all three queens on one continuous voyage. I sure hope all of the CCers can arrange a place to meet on the QE2 shortly after departure.

 

What an imaginative way to do the world cruise. Do you think that you will be the only one to have done that or are there others out there doing a similar venture. Should be loads of fun to be among the very few if not singular person to have sailed around the world using all three Cunard ships in one trip.

 

OK all you Cunard history buffs. Has this feat where three ships have been used ever been possible before in the history of Cunard? And if so, details please.

[ColumbiaSC]

Oahucruiser -- please put your information on the Roll Call for the QE2 2008 SAPOO or World Voyage. Under Roll Calls -- "other lines".... Thanks!

[durangoscots]

Oahucruiser, Wow!!!! someone actually doing that. My friend and I thought about it, but then decided on just the 77 days QE2 which is really very exciting in and of itself. I have not been on the QE2 since her very early days. We are in an M1 on 4 deck .... looking forward to meeting people, seeing places and just cruising.

[Oahucruiser]

Oahucruiser -- please put your information on the Roll Call for the QE2 2008 SAPOO or World Voyage. Under Roll Calls -- "other lines".... Thanks!

About a month ago I did put my name on the QE2's roll call for Jan. 13th but, when I checked after you wrote this, it wasn't there. The only other name that I see is "Ellen113" so am I looking in the wrong place? I also just posted a reply on the roll call under "other lines" and it never appeared. The screen went blank when I clicked "Submit." I'll try again. You have me wondering if there will be anyone else doing all 3 Queens. Patti

[Oahucruiser]

Double post - -sorry

[songanddance]

Just received another brochure in the mail today, extending all of the goodies on the QE2 2008 world cruise until April 30 from the original ex. date of Jan 31. And they have added an extra 5% discount for C6 staterooms. Guess, even though they have space on all levels, the top and the bottom are selling faster than the middle. Probably is always that way.

 

Nice to get more brochures as they add different things to look at. Probably not a good idea right before dinner as I don't believe I will be having the same level this evening as I will on board next January 29th.