One formal night - Zuiderdam

[cruzincurt]

Just back from the 11/4 Zuiderdam. We had one formal night. Many dressed up other nights anyway.

 

Since we missed the private island due to rough seas, OK safety first, so we got to sit in port an extra two hours in Grand Turk (in the dark, what was that all about?) and drink rum drinks that sat out on the rear deck for over an hour in the heat first. They had them poured at 5:30 but wouldn't let anyone have one until 7:15. The captain said he had to ask permission from the harbor master to stay? Really? Didn't see any other ships lining up to dock. Didn't Carnival build the port and dock at Grand Turk? Maybe they just wanted to save fuel?

 

I think the bell doth toll for HAL. So sad.

[happy cruzer]

If that's all you have to report about your cruise, then it must have been pretty bad. If a ship has to miss a port because of weather, I'm not sure I expect any compensation and if the compensation provided fell flat, then so what?

 

But there must be more for you to have given up on HAL? That does sound sad.

[Willem Ruys]

I was on the ZUIDERDAM, too.

 

I find it ODD that Holland America couldn't control when it got dark. Who can?

 

I was invited to that party that was to start at 7:15. I can't imagine showing up for it any earlier than, say, 7:10. And since this party was an extra given to us to try to foster some good will to make up for a missed port the staff of the ZUIDERDAM didn't HAVE to throw a complimentary party for what, 2,000 people? but they did it and they gave us a few more hours in another port. Why complain?

 

To return to Fort Lauderdale the ship had distance to cover and can't make more than 24 knots. Imagine what it costs to travel at that speed. To make that speed they have to put all five motors online and think of how much more fuel it woud have taken in order to stay later and sail faster with all five motors on line. So there was no feasible way the ship could stay more than an extra 2 hours at Grand Turk and even if Carnival did pay to build the dock, it still remains under the control of local port officials and their permission to overstay a planned call is required. We had to cover quite some distance to get back to Lauderdale on time and we did.

 

The bell tolling for Holland America? For as little as the lowest fare of $549 they charge for a seven night cruise? For what we pay for these cheap Carib cruises we're lucky we dont have to row. Holland America gives us way more than we pay for.

[djallar]

For as little as the lowest fare of $549 they charge for a seven night cruise? For what we pay for these cheap Carib cruises we're lucky we dont have to row. Holland America gives us way more than we pay for.

Agreed...makes me wonder why anyone complains about paying for specialty drinks at the Captain's Reception :p

[cruzincurt]

Sure they didn't have to do anything, so it was nice on their part. I don't care that we missed the first stop due to safety reasons. We would not have gone ashore anyway in those wind and surf conditions. I'm not looking for any compensation. Another day at sea was just great for us.

 

My comment about HAL "going down" (to a common demoninator) is related to our observation of cost cutting and lowering standards. ie., a single formal night, no dutch night, good entertainment where the crew doesn't have to sing and dance, etc. I guess if that's what it takes to keep the fares low, then so be it.

 

The HAL defenders on this board just cannot stand any negative comments about HAL.

[hammybee]

HAL is a mass marketed cruise line and goes toe-to-toe on price in the Caribbean. As Wm Ruys said, given the per diem cost of sailing HAL, it remains the best deal out there and if they have to cut a few corners to survive, so be it.

[RevNeal]

My comment about HAL "going down" (to a common demoninator) is related to our observation of cost cutting and lowering standards. ie., a single formal night, no dutch night, good entertainment where the crew doesn't have to sing and dance, etc. I guess if that's what it takes to keep the fares low, then so be it.

 

Hmmm ... I would suspect that there being only 1 formal night on that particular cruise was an anomaly peculiar to that cruise. The standard for HAL is still 2 formal night per week. I agree regarding the disappointment at the exchange of the tradition of Dutch Night for the idiotic "Master Chef Dinner" ... but that has more to do with erroneous assumptions on the part of the Line's administration that Dutch Night wasn't liked while the song-and-dance of Master Chef Dinner is "appreciated."

 

The HAL defenders on this board just cannot stand any negative comments about HAL.

 

Sure we can, and do ... and we make such negative comments ourselves, many times. Witness the explosion over the name choice for the new Signature ship and the anger of those of us who are usually branded as "HAL defenders" with regard to the unwillingness of HAL to admit problems on the Oosterdam. In short ... your criticism of us is fallacious.

[djallar]

... idiotic "Master Chef Dinner" ...

My thoughts exactly when we got to our table to see the "chef's" hat and the "happy meal" style menu.

[cruzincurt]

In response to Willem Ruys, I look forward to your review of the cruise.

 

My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's, but I have been on a few cruises so I speak only from my personal experience. I did not book the cheapest or the most expensive cabin (ie $549) but considerably more than $549 (yes, our choice). Our last cruise was on the Carnival Glory (as you know also owns HAL) and we looked back to our two trips on the Veendam and wanted to have that experience again. But, alas, HAL is trimming corners.

 

And Rev, there are indeed those that make negative comments about certain actions or decisions of the cruise line, which is healthy, but there also others that attack the posters who make negative comments about their personal cruise experience. Two different things in my book.

[RevNeal]

And Rev, there are indeed those that make negative comments about certain actions or decisions of the cruise line, which is healthy, but there also others that attack the posters who make negative comments about their personal cruise experience. Two different things in my book.

 

Expressing different experiences -- experiences contrary to negative ones -- is often interpreted as "making negative comments" regarding other's personal cruise experience. My primary criticism of some negative reviews is that, very often, such negative experiences are used to extrapolate blanket, fleet-wide evaluations regarding all HAL ships, all HAL cruises, and what must "really be true" about all other cruise experiences or HAL cruisers.

 

When I publish a review I present the great, the good, the not-so-good, the disappointments, and the bad. But, being a "cup half-full" rather than a "cup-half-empty" person, I prefer to focus upon, and remember, the good and not so much the bad. This doesn't mean that I can't and don't criticize where criticism is due -- just that I don't presume that my own personal experiences must be true for everyone else; nor do I necessarily disbelieve others who have experiences that run contrary to mine. I simply refuse to believe that any single experience must be indicative of totality.

[clueless2]

My comment about HAL "going down" (to a common demoninator) is related to our observation of cost cutting and lowering standards. ie., a single formal night.....

 

I fail to see how a single formal night is "cost cutting" when they still had the second "formal night" menu (surf and turf, etc.).

 

I assumed we had no second formal night due to the reverse itenerary which caused the next to last day to be a port call instead of a sea day.

[newmexicoNita]

In response to Willem Ruys, I look forward to your review of the cruise.

 

My opinion is no more valid than anyone else's, but I have been on a few cruises so I speak only from my personal experience. I did not book the cheapest or the most expensive cabin (ie $549) but considerably more than $549 (yes, our choice). Our last cruise was on the Carnival Glory (as you know also owns HAL) and we looked back to our two trips on the Veendam and wanted to have that experience again. But, alas, HAL is trimming corners.

 

And Rev, there are indeed those that make negative comments about certain actions or decisions of the cruise line, which is healthy, but there also others that attack the posters who make negative comments about their personal cruise experience. Two different things in my book.

ok, CArnival owns almost every mass marketed line but they only fall under the same umbrella, with very different managemnet etc. As for your experience, I understand you expecting the same, the second time around. It doesn't always work that way. As has been said by almost everyone, all lines are cutting back. The prices are staying pretty steady, but the cost of doing business is increasing, something has to give.

 

As for the number of formal nights, what does that have to do with anything? NMnita

[dakrewser]

And Rev, there are indeed those that make negative comments about certain actions or decisions of the cruise line, which is healthy, but there also others that attack the posters who make negative comments about their personal cruise experience. Two different things in my book.

 

I've no problem with those who make negative comments as long as, like Greg said, a single incident isn't elevated into a generalized attack. But, as happy cruzer said, your original post seemed much more negative than the things you reported would warrant. Still, you do have a good track record on CC and it would be helpful to hear more about what lead you to that posting...

[cruisnfool]

26 cruises since 1986......many things are changing across all lines.

 

I see changes in menus.....no or fewer midnight buffets.....not as great entertainment...more casual atmosphere...more chargeable items like alternate dining, ice cream, exercise programs.....

 

but what I like to see is the price is less than what it was in 1986......I can have a balcony or minisuite for what I paid for an inside room in 1986!

 

Still the best vacation IMHO.......changes and all

 

I too wish people would stop making a complaint and assuming its the downfall of the line......

I don't mind people giving their opinions of their cruise but don't assume that every ship and sailing in the fleet has the same problem.

[cruzincurt]

"it would be helpful to hear more about what lead you to that posting."

 

Dakrewser, I guess what led to my post was that after a party fest on the Carnival Glory, (our mistake) we were looking to a more "refined" cruise back on HAL. We treated two nights as formal anyway since we brought the clothes. What does it being a port day have to do with not having a formal night? Many cruises we have been on had formal nights on port days.

 

I would hate to see HAL start eroding some of the cruise traditions. We like HAL because of less kiddos, less partying, less noise, and would hate to lose a competitive $$ cruise experience to be like every other cruise line.

[cruznon]

cruzincurt,

What other event, lack of amenities, or lowered standards happened aboard the Zuiderdam that would cause you to feel HAL is "going down"? (I also would be disappointed there was only one formal night)

Was there more not mentioned? Just curious....

[cruzincurt]

One notable was no fresh flowers in our cabin. We really looked forward to them and even took along some additive for the water to help them last the whole week. Had them on both Veendam cruises, same cabin category.

 

Seems there was also less entertainment options in the evening. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but it just seemed duller.

[RevNeal]

cruzincurt,

 

Thanks for providing more information.

 

I don't disagree with HAL has been cutting corners some. However, of all the ships to judge by, the Zuiderdam and her common, mass-market oriented 7-day Eastern Caribbean Itineraries are simply not representative of the experience one will have on other ships of the line. For example, last October on the Zaandam I found the entertainment to be enjoyable, the music from the various bands quite good, the other entertainment options quite enjoyable, the atmosphere quite refined, and all very much a "HAL experience." Oh, sure, there were some things I didn't like -- the dropping of Dutch night and the stupid Master Chef Dinner is a peeve of mine. But, setting that aside, for the most part I found the meals well presented, and taste/quality of the food and presentation very much superior to what I've experienced on some cruises in the past (where the food was described as "bland bland bland" ... the food on the Zaandam in October had TASTE). :)

 

I have never cruised on the Zuiderdam, but from what I'm told she is the least "HAL" of the Vistas (having been on the other 3, the Noordam is MOST DEFINITELY a damship, with the Oosterdam coming a close second and the Westerdam just behind the Oosterdam. Still ... my favorite damship is the Volendam, followed close by the Statendam, then the Zaandam, then the Maasdam. :) I look forward to finding out about the Ryndam, the Veendam, the Rotterdam, the Amsterdam, and the Prinsendam before I'm done, too. :) Ah ... so many damships, not enough damtime!

[dakrewser]

Dakrewser, I guess what led to my post was that after a party fest on the Carnival Glory, (our mistake) we were looking to a more "refined" cruise back on HAL. We treated two nights as formal anyway since we brought the clothes. What does it being a port day have to do with not having a formal night? Many cruises we have been on had formal nights on port days.

 

I would hate to see HAL start eroding some of the cruise traditions. We like HAL because of less kiddos, less partying, less noise, and would hate to lose a competitive $$ cruise experience to be like every other cruise line.

 

I'd also add that Zuiderdam, as the most "Carnival-like" HAL ship you should probably treat as an aberration. Try any of the other ships, especially a smaller one, for that old-time HAL experience!

[Candy]

Hmmm ... I would suspect that there being only 1 formal night on that particular cruise was an anomaly peculiar to that cruise. The standard for HAL is still 2 formal night per week.

Greg, the second formal night was not eliminated last week, only the dress code was eased. We still had the formal menus and chair covers and the suite ladies all had corsages. As I'm sure you'll agree, HAL generally offers formal dinners on the 2 sea days (or 1 sea day and 1 short day) in a 7-night Caribbean cruise. Our 2nd sea day was Friday (packing day), so the 2nd formal dinner was scheduled for Thursday, which normally would have been an early allaboard day. Because we were granted an extra couple of hours in Grand Turk to offset the missed HMC stop, they allowed us to dress down a bit. Some diners dressed formal anyway, and I heard no complaints.

 

Willem Ruys, I agree about the prices... today I pay the same for a minisuite as I paid for an inside on the Seawind Crown 10 years ago!

 

Curt, I have seen trays of cocktails (not only on Zuidy) prepared and stacked an hour or so before a party. They are stirred and iced just before serving. And flowers? Mine were on the coffee table when I boarded and were just as fresh on the last day. Activities? So many we couldn't participate in all we wanted!

 

Candy the ZuiderPrincess

[cruisnfool]

Candy....welcome back.....hope you had a great time and looking forward to your review and copies of your daily programs....we leave 12/9...thanks

Mabel

[Sueseb]

If we had based our thoughts about HAL on our first Hal cruise on the Zaandam (not our first cruise) we would have not returned -- all due to the cabin steward. Someone else's dirty underwear in the cabin after it had been cleaned, another dirty night gown on the bed the next morning. He swore it had to be mine because it was under the bed. (It was a size 6, I most definitely am not), lost DH's shoes when he took them to polish them etc.

But a couple of years later some else with whom we were travelling chose the Zaandam. It was a wonderful experience and we would sail her again in a heart beat. One bad experience cannot ruin the whole cruise.

Also, cruzincurt mentions the crew having to perform. I am assuming he is talking about the crew show which is always after the late show. Did he go to it? We always do and they are VERY poorly attended. There is some excellent entertainment but as with every amatuer show, some that is not so good. The crew is not allowed to attend because they are not allowed to socialize with the PAX so the venue is pretty empty.

Counting the days until the Volendam 12/13!

[kryos]

but what I like to see is the price is less than what it was in 1986......I can have a balcony or minisuite for what I paid for an inside room in 1986!

 

Still the best vacation IMHO.......changes and all

While I certainly don't have the cruise experience that you do (8 cruises compared to your 26), I see the same things that you do. But I also see cruising as one of the most cost-effective vacations one can take. Just about everything necessary for a wonderful vacation is included. After all, you don't need to enjoy alcoholic beverages, you don't need spa treatments, you don't need to purchase things in the onboard shops, you don't need to gamble in the casino. So you don't have to incur those extra charges. What you do need is good food and plenty of it, nice port stops where you can get off and for a relatively small amount of money enjoy a beach or other such venue. You need some activities to pass the time on sea days, whether they be just a good book and a comfortable lounger by the pool. All of the things you NEED are provided as part of your cruise fare. It's only all the EXTRA things you may WANT that come with an extra charge. Believe me, I know people ... several of them ... who get off the ship at the end of their cruise with a very, very small onboard bill to pay. And they have a perfectly wonderful cruise.

 

So, yes ... HAL is changing ... as are all of the cruise lines. But they are only changing and cutting back on some things that maybe one day were offered free because they have actually reduced the charges for someone to come onboard their ships. Naturally, since the cost of living has gone way up since maybe ten years ago, but the HAL fares have gone down, obviously in order to remain profitable HAL has to cut corners somewhere. Thankfully, though, they haven't cut them in any areas that can truly impact the onboard experience they offer to their guests.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[seaisme]

Sure they didn't have to do anything, so it was nice on their part. I don't care that we missed the first stop due to safety reasons. We would not have gone ashore anyway in those wind and surf conditions. I'm not looking for any compensation. Another day at sea was just great for us.

 

My comment about HAL "going down" (to a common demoninator) is related to our observation of cost cutting and lowering standards. ie., a single formal night, no dutch night, good entertainment where the crew doesn't have to sing and dance, etc. I guess if that's what it takes to keep the fares low, then so be it.

 

The HAL defenders on this board just cannot stand any negative comments about HAL.

sorry...but one of the most enjoyable evening events on each of our HAL cruises (been cruising with HAL since 1997) has been the crew show. They work very hard to provide guests with a show that showcases their culture/customs. I hope HAL will always provide the crew with this opportunity...it's enriching for those who value customs and culture of others. And for those who don't want to hear the crew sing or watch them dance...there's always bingo or the casino.