No More Hal

[Copper10-8]

COPPER10-8,

 

Look down the thread board under HOLLAND and read "Was NOORDAM PRICING ERROR NOW ROTTERDAM PRICING ERROR"

 

Thank you,

 

JIM

 

Got it and I did. Looks like HAL did not make things easier for themselves in the PR Dept. with both these incidents. If a store/corporation/company puts out bad pricing info (wether through honest mistake, human or computer error, etc, etc) and people bite (accept that offer), seems to me like some concessions need to be made by that store/corporation/company, in this case HAL. They put themselves in a bad, pretty close to a "no win" position:rolleyes:

[twinkletoes4445]

Is there some special significance to the 11/04 date? If not, what difference would a week or two one way or the other make? :confused: If there's something special about the date, what about picking a different ship?

 

We booked our cruise, and the same day booked our airfare. The big probelm is that I have read about HAL doing this a lot.

 

There are several posters who have run into this problem (one is Shonuf). She booked and another poster pointed out that her date was a charter, and that she would not be on that sailing. She contacted her TA and her TA went round and round with HAL before finally getting the straight scoop. So she moved to another sailing.

 

A month or so later there was another poster who was booked on the same cruise that Shonuf was originally on. So this poster also found out from a poster here what was going on. Only it took that poster a lot longer to get HAL to cough up the truth. I believe this poster moved to another cruise line.

 

Many people book reserve their vacation times a year or more in advance, and they just can't move their dates around. When we were first married, I worked at a company like that. You picked your weeks, and those were your weeks. No changes allowed.

 

So it is a big deal to some people, especially since HAL didn't seem to want to at least tell some of the cruisers that they really weren't going to be on that particular sailing.

 

I know they can do this...they're covered by the fine print in the contract, but this sort of thing is making me think twice about cruising. We don't seem to have issues like this when we rent a condo or a hotel room for the week. Never have we been booted.

 

Edited to add....I see Shonuf posted her experience.

[MBeamTX]

Oh, I absolutely agree that it's a despicable business practice to continue booking the general public on a cruise that has already been chartered. Either the company is so disorganized that one department doesn't know what the other is doing, or else they are generating working capital by (in my non-legal view) fraudulently accepting deposits on cruise vacations they know they cannot provide. Not confidence-inspiring in either case.

 

I hope this isn't becoming a regular practice.

[jtl513]

So it is a big deal to some people ...

 

Okay, you're right - being retired I sometimes forget that many people don't have as much flexibility as me in terms of dates! :) And you're right that HAL certainly handled the situation(s) poorly. But still, couldn't another ship suffice for the OP?

[RevNeal]

Oh, I absolutely agree that it's a despicable business practice to continue booking the general public on a cruise that has already been chartered. Either the company is so disorganized that one department doesn't know what the other is doing, or else they are generating working capital by (in my non-legal view) fraudulently accepting deposits on cruise vacations they know they cannot provide. Not confidence-inspiring in either case.

 

I hope this isn't becoming a regular practice.

 

I tend to agree. And it's strange to find myself hoping that this is a matter of internal disorganization and not outright fraud on the Line's part.

 

What I'm curious about is the issue of Ship and timing. The last time I looked there were 13 ships in the HAL fleet. If the Westerdam isn't available for a specific week, what about one of the other ship's in the fleet? At 11 months out there CERTAINLY must be another alternative.

[fcorey]

I tend to agree. And it's strange to find myself hoping that this is a matter of internal disorganization and not outright fraud on the Line's part.

 

What I'm curious about is the issue of Ship and timing. The last time I looked there were 13 ships in the HAL fleet. If the Westerdam isn't available for a specific week, what about one of the other ship's in the fleet? At 11 months out there CERTAINLY must be another alternative.

 

Greg, I asked someone in Seattle about this very problem several months ago. I had noticed that HAL ships are prime for charter due to their size. Its easier to fill a 2000 passenger ship than a 3000+ passenger ship. I was told that they do not consider it a done deal until the money has changed hands and the charter company has quite a window to pay up. So it seems as though they do not pull a cruise until they've received that payment. Then it probably takes several weeks to get the affected passengers notified.

 

Its one of those unfortunate things. It would defintely suck to have it happen. However I am generally pretty flexible about my vacation plans so it would be easier for me than someone that has one certain week etc.

 

Seems like HAL has been having some serious image problems due to these pricing erros and their stance of not budging. It makes me wonder why they are taking such a hard line. For what it would have cost to cover those pricing errors it would have been worth the lost revenue in my opinion. But it just adds fuel to fire these discussions

[michmike]

I read some good advice many years ago, where someone said that life is less about what happens to you than how you react to it.

 

That's not to minimize the disappointment one feels when something like this occurs, but once it does, you can either seethe about it and wring your hands or you can investigate other options and find a plan B now that plan A is out the door. I'm not so sure that it is inappropriate to take the first approach for at least a day or two, but then your only option really is to move forward.

 

I speak from recent experience. We had a trip planned to one of the out islands in the Bahamas for the end of January, along with friends that we always travel with. Had booked it late this summer. In the interim, his brother, who is single, was diagnosed w/ terminal cancer and given less than 6 months to live. They have taken the brother in and are caring for him. Obviously they are not comfortable being out of the country at this point, particularly on an island where there is only one flight a day out.

 

So we cancelled the trip and are now slated to go spend a week on Sanibel Island the second week in January, where, if needed, they can catch a flight home in a matter of hours. Additionally, we've opted to include the brother in that trip if he is feeling up to it (he's actually doing pretty well at this point).

 

So.. were we disappointed? Yes. In addition it cost each couple $500 in lost villa deposit and airline change fees. But it was necessary to come up with a Plan B that will work for everyone. We'll have a good time on Sanibel... and we'll get to the Bahamas another day.

 

So the point is, changes in plans are not limited to dealing with the cruise lines.

[BumperII]

My wife & I had booked a grand suite on Westerdam to sail on 11/04/2007,

HAL never let us or our TA know the ship had been charterd for this date.

This trip was to have been a treet for our daughter.

We found out through HAL'S website when the cruise for that week and the folowing had disapered.

This was a huge disapointment and HAL ofered no help at all.

We had sailed on the old Westerdam & Zyderdam several times but I do not think there will be another.

 

I really understand your disappointment and your anger, and I think it entirely appropriate that you posted your feelings on this forum. The grand suite vacation is quite an expensive treat you were planning, and what you posted is exactly is exactly how I would feel. It is a good way to vent.

But then, I have to go on living, and start looking at Plan B, Plan C and Plan D if necessary to find something else in this great big wide wonderful world to look foreward to. I spent forty years in an occupation with annually scheduled vacations. In your position, my statement of "never again" would last for several days, but not long enough to wreck my ability to find another special treat, especially with eleven months to make arrangements.

So I wish you good luck. My guess is that in a few days you will figure out how to turn the disappointment into an opportunity to find a suite and a cruise that is even better than the deal that fell through.

[Sea King]

I can absolutely understand the disappointment but not necessarily your high level of anger

 

since it's almost a year out, there must be another itinerary that fits into your schedule with ports you'd like to visit

 

HAL is not winning points on this one though:mad:

 

at times, Seattle just doesn't get it .. then again, the bottom line is the bottom line is the bottom line is the bottom line:eek:

 

count yourself lucky .. imagine if 3/4 of the ship had been chartered and you were never told .. HAL has been known to do that .. it's so much fun for the "ordinary" pax who gets aboard not knowing anything about the charter (in a case where it's less than 100% of the ship being chartered it's called a 'large group') .. somehow or other, you suddenly find many of the on-board public areas "off limits" since they've all been "dedicated" to the group:o

 

consider yourself lucky .. at least you found out well in advance to make alternative plans

 

by the way .. it's no different IMHO on the other lines as well ..

 

the charters are huge huge huge huge mega-=huge money makers

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sorry to read about your having problems with not letting you know that your cruise was cancelled and you had to find out via other means..

[griswalds]

You are quite right, notice should have been given. The cruise industry does not communicate very well. With websites and internet, they could do a lot better. Good luck on your next cruise.

 

Griswalds

 

bull, at the very least we should have been notified.

[djallar]

I tend to agree. And it's strange to find myself hoping that this is a matter of internal disorganization and not outright fraud on the Line's part.

 

What I'm curious about is the issue of Ship and timing. The last time I looked there were 13 ships in the HAL fleet. If the Westerdam isn't available for a specific week, what about one of the other ship's in the fleet? At 11 months out there CERTAINLY must be another alternative.

I think this is a cruise I wanted to book also. The big difference between this cruise and all the others during the same period is that the itinerary was so unusual. If I remember correctly, this 7-day cruise went to Aruba and Curacao. There are no other 7-day cruises with the same itinerary.

 

It was listed on the webstie but when our TA tried to book it, she was told by HAL that it was a charter. It was removed shortly after that...(a month or two ago IIRC)

[kryos]

There were no large cabins left on any other week, or so we were told,

The date is important due to the fact my daughter is a long haul trucker & can only be off a certian times.

I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like your TA is at fault. Surely she must have gotten the word long ago that the particular week you were set to cruise had been chartered. Sounds to me like she dropped the ball in failing to immediately notify you.

 

Ship charters are arranged months in advance. I can't imagine that HAL wouldn't have made notification to all TA's with clients on the sailing within days after the charter contract was signed.

 

Sounds to me like your TA is at fault for this one and it is with her that you have your beef, not HAL. Cruise lines charter out ships all the time, and when they do they cancel the reservations of everyone booked on the sailing independently so that the chartering company can fill the sailing with their own people. That is standard practice. Then they inform all TA's with clients on the cruise about the cancellation and it is up to those TA's to contact their clients so that alternate arrangements can be made. Sounds like your TA failed to do this and therefore it is she who would owe you some recompense. If I were you, I'd be looking to my TA to make this right, and find me another cruise, for the same week, and at the same price contracted for the original HAL one. If there are no large cabins remaining on any of the other cruises for that week ... then I guess she'll just have to get you several smaller connecting ones ... and eat the difference in cost. I'd get her busy working on this if I were you.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

count yourself lucky .. imagine if 3/4 of the ship had been chartered and you were never told .. HAL has been known to do that .. it's so much fun for the "ordinary" pax who gets aboard not knowing anything about the charter (in a case where it's less than 100% of the ship being chartered it's called a 'large group') .. somehow or other, you suddenly find many of the on-board public areas "off limits" since they've all been "dedicated" to the group:o

Not to mention the whole sailing being geared toward the large group. Imagine if it's a StarTrek group and all of the entertainment onboard that week had a StarTrek theme. Or a Christian group where all of the music and entertainment in the lounges was gospel. If you didn't like gospel music, that would definitely detract from your overall cruise experience.

 

Personally, I'd rather find out I was bumped from a sailing by a charter than wind up sailing with a large group whose interests onboard that week were definitely gonna take precedence over my own.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Many people book reserve their vacation times a year or more in advance, and they just can't move their dates around. When we were first married, I worked at a company like that. You picked your weeks, and those were your weeks. No changes allowed.

I honestly wouldn't work for a company that was so rigid as to not let me change my vacation ... especially if we were talking months into the future.

 

Another thought I had about the OP's problem. Any chance he could rebook through the charter company and wind up on the same cruise? Sure, it would probably cost him more because the charter company will have their own entertainment, etc., onboard that week and probably will charge a premium for the sailing, but if one could deal with the "theme" of the charter, it is a viable option for getting on the same cruise you had originally booked.

 

Of course, you may not get your original cabin, but surely there are other workable options; i.e., a couple of connecting cabins, etc.

 

Just a thought ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Grumpy1]

I suspect that part of the problem with a charter still showing up for booking might be that the contract for the charter might not be finalized. Say that a company wishes to charter the ship and enters into negotiations with HAL. At the same time, they start promoting their charter to their special interest groups. If response is good, they finalize the deal. If not, they walk away or just change to a large group on a non-charter. But until the ink is dry on the contract, HAL is not going to quit taking bookings. It would be nice if they would put a notation on that sailing that a charter is being considered, but that would probably drive away too many potential customers and the ship could have a lot of empty or deeply discounted cabins if the charter falls through. It's a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation.

[twinkletoes4445]

I hope this isn't becoming a regular practice.

 

That's also my hope. :)

[twinkletoes4445]

Okay, you're right - being retired I sometimes forget that many people don't have as much flexibility as me in terms of dates! :) And you're right that HAL certainly handled the situation(s) poorly. But still, couldn't another ship suffice for the OP?

 

We're one of the lucky ones...we own our own business, so we are flexible. I'm one of the ones that will give up a seat on a plane, because getting back a day or so later, really isn't that big of a deal for us. Although hubby would prefer to get back when planned, but sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

I suppose my point is that HAL (and I am sure the others do this also) has been doing a lot of interesting things lately...from the price issue (booking and then coming back for more money lately), to the charter issue. My big beef with that was how they dragged their feet when it came to telling people. If they told some (like Shounf-although it sounded like it was similar to pulling teeth for her get an answer), they should be up front ASAP once they know there is going to be a charter.

 

Funny thing about this, but when I told my TA, she said HAL was usually pretty good about this, but that NCL was much worse. Yikes...I know where I won't be.

 

I know we're one of the lucky ones. We are flexible, and we cruise just because we love the whole ship experience. The ports are a bonus. And I do know there are things that are out of the cruise lines control...weather, mechanical issues...things along that line.

 

Now I would be upset if the blenders on the ship weren't working!!! :)

 

But they can control some of these other things. If they charter a ship, have the decency to let those already booked know as soon as possible that they are going to have to change their plans.

 

And you're right, a year out, most people will be able to find a ship that sails on that particular date. :)

[Chivalrygirl]

Did anybody ever read about the dreadful debacle of P & O Australia last year?

First the Pacific Sky broke down in Vanuatu, had to fly the passengers home from there. Then they dragged the ship back to Brisbane, and from there cruises were cancelled one after the other. The PSky was supposed to be in Auckland for a Rugby charter in June, (cruises had been advertised also for during this charter period), but guess what the vessel was still not repaired in time. P & O then cut out the cruises from Sydney on Pacific Sun and sent her to Auckland for the Rugby charter. Had I been booked on Pacific Sky (well actually we were but she got all better one cruise before ours), I would have accepted the break-down, had I had a cruise cancelled on Pacific Sun, I would have been HOPPING MAD, but it would seem that a charter comes before all else, or else its something to do with the game of Rugby :)

 

So ianturner, just spare a thought for those poor folk who got dumped just a few days short of their cruise, and be thankful that you have heaps of time to readjust your holiday. Then go and look forward to having a wonderful cruise on some lovely ship.

[Chivalrygirl]

Did anybody ever read about the dreadful debacle of P & O Australia last year?

First the Pacific Sky broke down in Vanuatu, had to fly the passengers home from there. Then they dragged the ship back to Brisbane, and from there cruises were cancelled one after the other. The PSky was supposed to be in Auckland for a Rugby charter in June, (cruises had been advertised also for during this charter period), but guess what the vessel was still not repaired in time. P & O then cut out the cruises from Sydney on Pacific Sun and sent her to Auckland for the Rugby charter. Had I been booked on Pacific Sky (well actually we were but she got all better one cruise before ours), I would have accepted the break-down, had I had a cruise cancelled on Pacific Sun, I would have been HOPPING MAD, but it would seem that a charter comes before all else, or else its something to do with the game of Rugby :)

 

So ianturner, just spare a thought for those poor folk who got dumped just a few days short of their cruise, and be thankful that you have heaps of time to readjust your holiday. Then go and look forward to having a wonderful cruise on some lovely ship.

[Pete Jackson]

Actually, Ian, if you're cruising in November, you shouldn't need to book far ahead since November is not prime time for vacations, so there should be good deals out there for quite some time. So just wait for HAL to contact you or your TA, and see how good a deal you can get; hopefully for having taken your cruise from under you, they will give an especially good deal on another ship. Then you can decide whether to take it or shop other lines and ships.

Good luck!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Actually, Ian, if you're cruising in November, you shouldn't need to book far ahead since November is not prime time for vacations, so there should be good deals out there for quite some time. So just wait for HAL to contact you or your TA, and see how good a deal you can get; hopefully for having taken your cruise from under you, they will give an especially good deal on another ship. Then you can decide whether to take it or shop other lines and ships.

Good luck!

 

The Zuiderdam is leaving 1 day earlier and doing the same exact itineray except it goes to St Thomas instead of St Maarten. I don't know if the suite they had boked is available though. They are both the same class ship aren't they?

 

Bill

[TV Dad]

This guy has a legitimate gripe! Not because HAL booked a charter and had to bump him, but because HAL did NOT contact him and explain the situation. Nor offer a solution to the problem HAL created. It's all about customer service!

[xpcdoojk]

TV Dad, nobody says his gripe isn't legitimate. However, his resolution to his gripe is not based on reality. All of the cruiselines do charters. He is just lucky on at least a couple of points. 1) He is finding out way in advance, and 2) he is on a full charter and not a partial charter where he could be on a cruise with 1000 Avon ladies or Mary Kay ladies or HOGS or Bears or..... :D

 

jmho

 

emotional decisions are rarely the best decisions.:rolleyes:

 

jc

[twinkletoes4445]

This guy has a legitimate gripe! Not because HAL booked a charter and had to bump him, but because HAL did NOT contact him and explain the situation. Nor offer a solution to the problem HAL created. It's all about customer service!

 

I think he has a reason to be unhappy, but at least he found out very early. There were other posters who weren't nearly as fortunate (on other sailings).

 

It is all about customer service. I have learned a lot about cruising here. I'd not be happy if we were bumped, but from reading here, it's covered in the HAL contract. This is something we will keep in mind when we're planning our next vacation.