Straights attending FOD meetings

[Ephraim]

Okay, how about a few more proposals for NCL to use, of course, many people won't be able to figure out any of these either. I'm sure I can come up with a few that are accurate but again totally archaic and useless:

 

Friends of Quentin Crisp

Stonewall Inn Customers

Friends of Julian Clary

Kinsey Six Fellowship

Fans of Squawk and Milou

Friends of Bill C-38

Friends of Ennis and Jack

Wilde and Stein

Friends of Miss Furr & Miss Skeene

 

Or we could turn the world on it's ear and go for heterosexually challenged.

[derf5585]

Friends of Quentin Crisp

Stonewall Inn Customers

Friends of Julian Clary

Kinsey Six Fellowship

Fans of Squawk and Milou

Friends of Bill C-38

Friends of Ennis and Jack

Wilde and Stein

Friends of Miss Furr & Miss Skeene

 

I promised no more linking. Although I was curious about "Freinds of Bill C-38"

[Ephraim]

Bill C-38 is the law that struck out the words man and woman and replaced it with "two people" in the marriage law in Canada.

[Psoque]

Yikes, four copies of the same post! :eek:

 

JAP is short for Jewish American Princess, but it's not especially common. It's more frequently spelled "Jap" as in short for Japanese. Most people don't use it for Jewish American Princess.

 

 

I'm sure Etoile had no intent in doing so, the use of the term "Jap" in reference to Japanese (people, culture, etc.) has a very strong negative connotation. From what I can understand, this stems from the usage of this term during WWII.

 

And, in contrast to other terms discussed on this board, even a Japanese person cannot use it and not get in trouble.

 

FYI...

[pnhmrk]

While many DO know what it means, it's generally us older folks, or us folks that have been cruising for a while.

 

I hadn't been on a cruise ship for a long time and was astonished to see that they now has FOD parties on ships. It wasn't until I found CC that I realised that it wasn't a universally known term. I like the term FOD, but I am beginning to wonder if some form of clarification isn't needed.

[derf5585]

. It wasn't until I found CC that I realised that it wasn't a universally known term. .

 

About one a month someone will ask "What does 'Friends of Bill' mean" on CruiseCritic.

[pnhmrk]

About one a month someone will ask "What does 'Friends of Bill' mean" on Cruise Critic.

 

I found out the meaning of that by asking someone onboard a ship! Until then I just thought it was someone called Bill who had lots of friends!:)

 

I wouldn't go to a Friends of Bill W meeting just for the social aspect, I would need a reason to be there. Likewise I don't think people should come to a FOD meeting just for the social side - some kind of reason is also needed.

[Ephraim]

I found out the meaning of that by asking someone onboard a ship! Until then I just thought it was someone called Bill who had lots of friends!:)

 

Actually, on our first cruise, we couldn't figure it out as well. We just figured that there was a group of people there celebrating something special for Bill W.

 

On our second cruise, we thought it was odd that he was following us and asked another passenger we were friendly with.

 

Friends of Bill W. is definitely not a group for socializing. It's a peer support group, not the same as a social meeting of Gays and Lesbians.

[pnhmrk]

Friends of Bill W. is definitely not a group for socializing. It's a peer support group, not the same as a social meeting of Gays and Lesbians.

 

I didn't mean to imply that Bill W was a group just for socialising, I don't think that FOD is just for socialising either.

[derf5585]

I don't think that FOD is just for socialising either.

 

Well, what else is it?

[etoile]

Count me in as another person who, on my first cruise, was wondering why this Bill guy had parties every day! :eek:

[Blazerboy]

All of this reminds me of my own coming out many years ago...Turned out that one of my brothers and our two best friends were gay too...instant support group, which was fabulous...but, much like FOD, we were a little shy about being totally out, so we developed a code phrase, OTP, short for "On the program." Therefore, much like asking if someone was a friend of Dorothy's, my brother could ask me, over cornflakes, with my mother in the room, if the guy I was talking about at work was "OTP." Silly little code phrase to help with the transition to being totally out...we even called lesbians OTOP..."on the other program." :D

 

In that light, it's commendable to want to do away with "FOD," as I'm now comfortable with being out. But, FOD does have a history in our community, and is a symbol of another era, so I still think we should all know what it means, even if we don't use it. Many in our community show a deplorable lack of knowledge of our history. (Says the guy who minored in Human Sexuality, and helped start the minor in GLBT studies...ask me about European History, and I'm sunk!:o )

 

I also, however, respect those who might be from a generation where that is all they are comfortable with...a code. So I think we're likely to see the term around until being in the closet is no longer a significant issue(Praise the deity of your choice!) But I'm all for finding a discription that's a little less hidden. Just like the Gay/Queer debate, though, it might take us a while to all agree, let alone get the cruise lines to.:rolleyes:

 

Andrew

[bdjam]

...we were a little shy about being totally out, so we developed a code phrase, OTP, short for "On the program." Therefore, much like asking if someone was a friend of Dorothy's, my brother could ask me, over cornflakes, with my mother in the room, if the guy I was talking about at work was "OTP." Silly little code phrase to help with the transition to being totally out...we even called lesbians OTOP..."on the other program." :D

Another code phrase used by me ex and I when we wanted to be discreet - PLU (People Like Us)...

[derf5585]

ATurned out that one of my brothers and our two best friends were gay too...

 

So is it nature or nurture?

(Boy am I ever going to get nailed on that one)

I have my Force Fields Up.

[bdjam]

So is it nature or nurture?

(Boy am I ever going to get nailed on that one)

I have my Force Fields Up.

Nature...definitely. I too have "it" running through my family...and one of my cousins grew up in a very conservative, Catholic family that so screwed him up (via "nurture") that he wasn't able to come to terms with his sexuality until he was 57 years old.

[derf5585]

wasn't able to come to terms with his sexuality until he was 57 years old.

 

So I have 4 years to go till I come to terms with my sexuality.

[derf5585]

wasn't able to come to terms with his sexuality until he was 57 years old.

 

So I have 4 years to go till I come to terms with my sexuality.

[bdjam]

So I have 4 years to go till I come to terms with my sexuality.

Only if you've been incorrectly nurtured. And it's sort of not funny - he realizes NOW that he wasted a good deal of his life because he was doing what he was taught to do instead of what he felt was natural.

[Blazerboy]

Another code phrase used by me ex and I when we wanted to be discreet - PLU (People Like Us)...

Well, that might have worked, but my family already used that for discriminating WASPS from non-WASPS ...would have gotten REALLY confusing.:)

 

Nature vs. Nurture:

 

It's fascinating debate- in the field, we call the debate "Biological Essentialism vs. Environmental Constructionism" but it just doesn't have the same ring to it!:rolleyes:

 

Actually, Derf, there have been studies showing that birth order has some corelation to sexual orientation....the more boys you have, the more likely some of the later ones will be gay. And if you have one gay son, subsequent sons are also more likely to be gay. In our case, we were all the youngest or next to youngest, two of the families with five kids, the youngest two both gay...we just assumed it was the drinking water...:D

 

And then there's that famous study (famous in the annals of Nature/Nurture debates, at least) that said if you really frightened a mother in the first trimester of pregnancy, and she subsequently gave birth to a girl, that that child was more likely to be lesbian! :eek: But ladies, that doesn't mean we should go around jumping out at expectant mothers just to create a bumper crop of little lesbians!;)

 

Oh, and I'm firmly in the Nature camp, and my professor in college, a gay man, firmly in the Nurture camp. He used to debate Dr. Simon LeVay- even got on Oprah with it! But the best part of some of these studies done is that not only are our hypothamimuses (Hypthamie?) bigger, but other things as well. O.k., maybe the study was flawed, but it's a fun fact to trot out when dealing with insecure straight boys!!!!!

 

Andrew

[bdjam]

Actually, Derf, there have been studies showing that birth order has some corelation to sexual orientation....the more boys you have, the more likely some of the later ones will be gay. And if you have one gay son, subsequent sons are also more likely to be gay. In our case, we were all the youngest or next to youngest, two of the families with five kids, the youngest two both gay...we just assumed it was the drinking water...:D

My Mom and Dad got it right on the first shot - so to speak. I'm an only child! :D :D

[Ephraim]

Well, that might have worked, but my family already used that for discriminating WASPS from non-WASPS ...would have gotten REALLY confusing.:)

 

We talk in terms of three dollar bills. "Oh, did you see the six bucks standing by the tree?"

[Cruise Arizona]

I think that I heard some thing about the youngest boys too.... The scientific "explanation" was that some women develop antibodies or something like that against the testosterone of a developing male fetus, so the baby gets less testosterone in the womb than previous boys... or some thing like that.

[MattInFLL]

bdjam! long time no chat. I am finally sailing a Princess ship again with RSVP and hoping to come away with the warm fuzzies you have for Princess... since I did not get them on Diamond. Psyched that eventhough it's a charter, they will let me accrue Captain's Circle....anyway...

 

I have an extremely Catholic Italian cousin...my age..never married...no girlfriends...always the "good boy"....the obit for Barbara Bel Geddes was on his fridge at Christmas dinner...just can't bring himself to be who he is...I fear he will always be trapped, but maybe at 57 he, too, can have an awakening. I'll be there to help.

 

When I was 5 I asked my mother what a homosexual was...it was the late 60's, I don't remember her being stunned, and she gave a very textbook answer. (Fast forward to when I was 23 and came out to her and she threw up on the carpet...ahhh..memories). At 9 I was the mascot for my brother's hockey team and just knew I loved being in that lockerroom..but still no conscious clue...then I went to prep school...still no clue, but boy, I knew there was something different about me. It has to be nature. Oh, and I am the youngest of 3 boys. I may not have have been able to label it, but from the time I could form sensical thoughts I knew I wasn't like all the other boys. :)

[derf5585]

the obit for Barbara Bel Geddes was on his fridge at Christmas dinner... :)

 

Wasn't she married twice and had kids.

 

Barbara Bel Geddes, the genteel stage and screen actress best known as Miss Ellie, the forbearing matriarch on the 1970s and '80s television series "Dallas," died Monday at her home in Northeast Harbor, Maine.

from

http://www.ultimatedallas.com/barbarabelgeddes/

[MattInFLL]

Oh I wasn't implying anything about Miss Ellie. I just don't know many straight men who would cut out Miss Ellie's obit from the paper, and post it on their fridge, and talk wistfully about how wonderful she was in Dallas. :)