Dining Room Attire Thought

[bdjam]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. It it RUDE for someone to suggest that anyone else avoid the dining room. Again, if and when Princess decides that they want to enforce their guidelines, that's when people should avoid the dining room. When the Maitre D' does not allow them entrance, I guess there won't be any further discussion for that particular cruiser. I just don't think another passenger has the right to tell people where to eat.

I really can't see how one can maintain it is rude for someone to expect others to follow the fully expressed dress guidelines on formal evenings on Princess ships. Because those others purchased a product that included a formal evening and because they don't want that they intend to spoil it for others?

 

The staff on Princess ships does stop non-formally dressed people from entering the dining room on formal evenings. Many of us posting here have seen it happen. So by your statement people who are not appropriately dressed should avoid the dining room. Thanks.

This thread has been relatively civil - although again, I think the person I quoted was being rude. If you go back and look at most of these threads, however, I really do think you'll find that the "dressy" crowd does tend to sound like the more "rude" crowd. At least to me.

Since I was the one you quoted, please identify what you felt was rude in my post.

[bdjam]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. It it RUDE for someone to suggest that anyone else avoid the dining room. Again, if and when Princess decides that they want to enforce their guidelines, that's when people should avoid the dining room. When the Maitre D' does not allow them entrance, I guess there won't be any further discussion for that particular cruiser. I just don't think another passenger has the right to tell people where to eat.

I really can't see how one can maintain it is rude for someone to expect others to follow the fully expressed dress guidelines on formal evenings on Princess ships. Because those others purchased a product that included a formal evening and because they don't want that they intend to spoil it for others?

 

The staff on Princess ships does stop non-formally dressed people from entering the dining room on formal evenings. Many of us posting here have seen it happen. So by your statement people who are not appropriately dressed should avoid the dining room. Thanks.

This thread has been relatively civil - although again, I think the person I quoted was being rude. If you go back and look at most of these threads, however, I really do think you'll find that the "dressy" crowd does tend to sound like the more "rude" crowd. At least to me.

Since I was the one you quoted, please identify what you felt was rude in my post.

[dforeigner]

This is why jeans are not allowed at dinner.

 

[pg.]

Bjam, the "vocal minority" are the people who actually CARE what others are wearing.

Most posters on this thread have said that although THEY dress up, they don't care what others do...

A few posters seem to care way to much about what other people do, especially since it doesn't actually hurt them.

[Buddy604]

I find it fascinating that no one directly addressed my other questions as to where do you draw the line? Do you just let anyone in the dining room wearing whatever they want. I mean, they did pay their fare so they should be able to do whatever they want correct?

It's the slipperly slope argument, and one I agree can make it difficult to establish any guidelines. But, it does cut both ways.

 

For example, I was raised with a fairly traditional definition of formal wear, which rarely seems to apply anymore in the USA outside of an etiquette book. For example, wing collars are only supposed to be worn with white tie - it is considered gauche and low-class to display a band of black. And the white dinner jacket was never considered evening attire except in the tropics, which of course is that zone between 23 degrees North and 23 degrees South. My parents weren't fond of it even in that zone, dismissing it as "too Kennedy."

 

If my folks had been manning the door, most Americans wouldn't have made the cut it seems. :o

 

I certainly don't agree with them, but you always end up with "appropriate attire" being in the eye of the beholder.

[lysolqn]

I certainly don't agree with them, but you always end up with "appropriate attire" being in the eye of the beholder.

 

Not when the host (in this case, the cruise line) clearly defines what is and what is not appropriate. It's there in black and white, regardless of how some folks spin it.

[from the desert]

Again...

 

Where is it printed on my deposit with Princess or on my ticket about the "rules" for dress on formal night.

 

I know it is in Princess' literature and on their web site but this still does not make it legally binding.

 

Don't get me wrong, my husband does where a tux, and other than my $100 flip flops (evening sandals) I dress up, too. I'm just trying to prove a point that the 3000 non Cruise Critic passengers will either not read the web site, or won't care.

 

I don't believe Princess will ever not let someone into the dining room if the gentleman is wearing slacks, shirt and tie, and I am sure they won't turn a woman away if she is wearing a Sunday dress or a nice slack set. Kids, as long as they are clean and presentable won't be denied access either.

 

People are not asking for swimsuits and short shorts and wife-beaters and sports bras to be allowed in the dining room...they just want their interpretation of dressy for them to be acceptable.

[Host CJSKIDS]

Again...

 

Where is it printed on my deposit with Princess or on my ticket about the "rules" for dress on formal night.

 

I know it is in Princess' literature and on their web site but this still does not make it legally binding.

 

Don't get me wrong, my husband does where a tux, and other than my $100 flip flops (evening sandals) I dress up, too. I'm just trying to prove a point that the 3000 non Cruise Critic passengers will either not read the web site, or won't care.

 

I don't believe Princess will ever not let someone into the dining room if the gentleman is wearing slacks, shirt and tie, and I am sure they won't turn a woman away if she is wearing a Sunday dress or a nice slack set. Kids, as long as they are clean and presentable won't be denied access either.

 

People are not asking for swimsuits and short shorts and wife-beaters and sports bras to be allowed in the dining room...they just want their interpretation of dressy for them to be acceptable.

 

You're completely right about most of the cruisers not reading cruise critic and not giving it much thought. I'm sure if you brought this hot topic up while on board most would laugh about the amount of time that is spent discussing/rehashing this topic!

 

I've never seen anyone turned away, but then again most I see are at least dressed in pants and a nice shirt. Again, on our 11/4 Crown sailing, we saw all manner of dress (including very informally dressed) in Sabitinis on formal night and in the main dining room on the 2nd formal night. Everyone was sat without incident and I'm probably the only one who even glanced at what others wore (glanced, didn't care!) just because I read this board!

[Ethel5]

I think it's rude to suggest to someone to stay out of the dining room if they don't want to dress up.

 

Those entering the dining room not properly dressed are the rude ones.

[Editor]

I really think that this thread has gotten out of hand.

Maybe it's a generational thing. Maybe some are formal and stuffy.

 

Why do people have to be rude in their responses? We all have the right to our opinion and must be respectful of others'.

 

The mere fact that so many people are worried about what's the proper attire in the dining room leads me to feel that people should wear what they are most comfortable in (with of course not dressing as if they were mucking in a barn).

 

Those who don't like how I'm or my family is dressed can look the other way, because believe me, I won't be looking at you!

[SusieQusie]

Well, this is getting (actually has already gotten) really old. People obviously disagree, not only about having concerns regarding what others should wear, but also about what constitutes being rude.

 

I'm sticking by what I said, and I'm pretty sure all the other posters want to stick by what they said.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing what shows up in the dining room in August......with so any families, kids, teens, etc. on board, I can't believe I'm not going to see any "casual" attire during dinner. I guess we'll just see if they are turned away at the door, or if there are any very vocal CC posters who want to address them directly!

[lysolqn]

The mere fact that so many people are worried about what's the proper attire in the dining room leads me to feel that people should wear what they are most comfortable in (with of course not dressing as if they were mucking in a barn).!

 

I think the appropriate response here is "checkmate!"

 

On the one hand, you advocate that people should dress comfortably, whether or not their idea of comfort complies with the dress code. On the other hand, you have proposed a minimum standard of dress which YOU deem acceptable ("not dressing as if they were mucking in a barn") and which you wish others to respect. Doesn't that smack of hyposcrisy - even just a teeny bit? I dare say you and many others who thumb their noses at the evening dress code are guilty of the very same offense of which you accuse those who would like see the cruise line's standard of dress respected by all passengers - you've just set the bar a bit lower. It's not just traditionalists, purists, old timers or hardliners who have limits; even you laid back modernists have standards you wish to impose on others!

[Toto2Kansas]

Maybe it is just the way we have always looked at this issue. IF we don't plan to dress according to the ships guidelines for dinner, they have provided alternate areas for us to dine on those nights. I was under the impression that this was one of the reasons these other areas (such as buffets and pizza) were created in the first place and were open in the evenings.

Those that love to dress (especailly on formal evenings) went to the diningroom, those that made the choice not to, went to the buffet, room service, etc. We always looked at it as respect to other passengers and crew that have adhered to the dress code for that evening.

It is part of the reason we stay cruising with Princess, they give you lots of choices.

 

It has been many years since we dressed for formal nights (gowns and suits/tuxs) but we have never even considered going to the diningroom on those evenings. We do dress nicer than a casual night as DH likes to attend the shows, but he puts on his dress shirt, vest and tie and then does not feel out of place at the show.

I think this all started on a cruise many years ago when someone, on formal night, went to the show in shorts and a T-Shirt. The Comedian tore them up as they were sitting in the first couple of rows of the theater. DH never wanted that to happen to him, so aside from sitting and watching the show, he never looks out of place, even on formal evenings.

 

Personally, we would never even consider dining in the restaurant on formal night unless we were dressed as the cruise line suggests. Other options are available and we respect the fact that some still enjoy the formal dining experience and we aren't that fond of it. We would never think of embarssing ourselves or others around us, including the staff (whether they care how we are dressed or not) by trying to enter the dining room on a formal night with improper attire.

[mii]

Kudo's to Toto. Could not have said it better myself. Thank you. And yes I am a Princess Cheerleader and a tradionalist.

 

Marilyn

[SusieQusie]

I think the appropriate response here is "checkmate!"

 

On the one hand, you (and others who think it's ok to ignore the dress code) advocate that people should dress comfortably, whether or not their idea of comfort complies with the dress code. On the other hand, you have proposed a minimum standard of dress which you deem acceptable ("not dressing as if they were mucking in a barn") and which you wish others to respect. I dare say you and many of the others who thumb their noses at the evening dress code are guilty of the very same offense of which you accuse those who would like see the cruise line published standard of dress respected by all passengers - you've just set the bar a bit lower. It's not just the traditionalists, purists, old timers or hardliners who have limits; even you laid back modernists have standards you wish to impose on others!

 

OK - one more post from me:

 

While I will dress appropriately, my point is that I could NOT care less how others dress!!! Really - if you want to wear your "barn mucking" clothes - go right ahead. As long as there is no offensive odor to go with them, which might actually ruin other's dining experience. And as long as no one's "private parts" are exposed - go for it!!!

 

But really, the standard I hold for myself is NOT the standard I hold for others. It's really not my business how others dress. Now, of course, I'm sure people can come up with crazy examples of what no one would accept (thong bikinis for women, no shirts for men - or I guess women for that matter). However, we all know that these types of things are pretty much universally NOT accepted in almost all indoor eating establishments. It's not a logical comparison.

 

Again, I'm sure someone will come back explaining how I'm totally wrong in my explanation. Pointing out all of my flawed logic. That's OK.

 

Checkmate.

[lysolqn]

It's really not my business how others dress. Now, of course, I'm sure people can come up with crazy examples of what no one would accept (thong bikinis for women, no shirts for men - or I guess women for that matter). However, we all know that these types of things are pretty much universally NOT accepted in almost all indoor eating establishments. It's not a logical comparison.

 

Logically speaking, you can't have it both ways. Once you cite what you believe to be "universally" acceptable minimum standards of dress, you are, in fact, imposing your standards on others who may think differently. If you're someone who sincerely believes in the "anything goes" policy (as many posters seem to indicate) then you have to accept that someone else's idea of "anything goes" may be quite different from your own and at some point, even you might be offended. If you want "anything goes" but with minimum standards (even what you refer to as "universally" accepted ones), then you really don't want "anything goes," do you? What you really want is for your standard (as high or as low as it may be) to be imposed on others - just like those who'd like to see the dress code respected by all who choose to take their evening meal in the dining room.

[latitude 22]

Just a few of my thoughts....

 

Editor, this is not a generational thing as you stated above as we are close to the same age (I am actually younger). I have been cruising now for 25 years on Princess.

 

We have seen long time cruising traditions end with many cruiselines, we've had to adapt. There was a time that life at sea was about class, sophistication, refinement and RESPECT of yourself, your fellow passenger

and the RULES that the captain had set forth during your passage.

 

If I'm going out to a restaurant for 6 course meal I don't wear jeans...

 

Side note..

The assorted appetizer platter and 2 margarita's at Chili's does not equate 6 courses!

 

If I am going to a formal event, I don't wear a cute Ann Taylor sun dress or something even LESS formal than that. My host has issued an invitation

and because I was brought up to show proper etiquette, I will respect my host's request that formal attire be worn. Otherwise I turn down the invitiation.

 

Is it the cost of the clothing? You can get some incredibly cute outfits at Ross, Marshalls, and Kohl's!

 

Is it that you just don't care about the ambience of a Dining Experience?

How often do you eat in a restaurant with tablecloths, 6 courses that you can have as much of as you want, while you are served? How much would that cost at home? Would you be dressing up for this experience?

 

Yes, I will look at you and anyone else traipsing through the dining room and I will think for one fleeting moment...how crass...will it ruin my cruise...no. But once again I will put on my comment card that the dress code should always be enforced.

 

We both paid for a cruise experience. When I read the brochure and information online it mentioned formal night attire, I don't believe it said ...."only if you feel like it"

 

You knew this would be a hot button topic on your original post. You aren't the 1st poster that has brought up this topic, I believe it began just a few months after Cruisecritic.com 1st began. You won't be the last.

[from the desert]

As sad as it may be for the traditionalists among cruisers there is no way they can control the enforcement of a dress code on today's ships. With 3000 plus passengers all having their own wants and desires, no amount of debate on these boards will change their perspective. And, with something so trivial in the grand scheme of things I don't think the personel on board a ship are going to make an issue and a scene about the appropriateness of someone's dressing habits.

 

For those of us who like "dressing up" I am in hopes that we continue to do it since it provides us with a change in our everyday routine. For those who think a shirt and tie is dressing up they will be accepted in the dining venues by the Princess staff, and for those that only bring shorts and T shirts on a cruise, hopefully their innate common sense will show them the path to the buffet on formal night.

 

No one on these boards are going to change anyone's mind on what they feel is appropriate for them to wear. I hope that I will never allow someone else to have so much control over me that their individual likes and dislikes will ruin my cruising experience.

[Corner Exit]

Hello! Does anyone see the irony here? It seems that the people who are so concerned with their personal opinions about what others wear are the ones who are being "self centered and disrespectful of everyone else"!!!!! I just cannot fathom how what someone else is wearing to dinner could possibly bother some people to such a great extent!

I suspect it may stem from self-esteem issues with some folks like this. They have to build themselves up by putting others down. The more they can put others down and judge them by their looks/dress the better it makes them feel.

 

They derive their self-confidence from the type of clothes they wear vs. what kind of person they are at the core, on the inside.

[Pam in CA]

Just a few of my thoughts....

 

Editor, this is not a generational thing as you stated above as we are close to the same age (I am actually younger). I have been cruising now for 25 years on Princess.

 

We have seen long time cruising traditions end with many cruiselines, we've had to adapt. There was a time that life at sea was about class, sophistication, refinement and RESPECT of yourself, your fellow passenger

and the RULES that the captain had set forth during your passage.

 

If I'm going out to a restaurant for 6 course meal I don't wear jeans...

 

Side note..

The assorted appetizer platter and 2 margarita's at Chili's does not equate 6 courses!

 

If I am going to a formal event, I don't wear a cute Ann Taylor sun dress or something even LESS formal than that. My host has issued an invitation

and because I was brought up to show proper etiquette, I will respect my host's request that formal attire be worn. Otherwise I turn down the invitiation.

 

Is it the cost of the clothing? You can get some incredibly cute outfits at Ross, Marshalls, and Kohl's!

 

Is it that you just don't care about the ambience of a Dining Experience?

How often do you eat in a restaurant with tablecloths, 6 courses that you can have as much of as you want, while you are served? How much would that cost at home? Would you be dressing up for this experience?

 

Yes, I will look at you and anyone else traipsing through the dining room and I will think for one fleeting moment...how crass...will it ruin my cruise...no. But once again I will put on my comment card that the dress code should always be enforced.

 

We both paid for a cruise experience. When I read the brochure and information online it mentioned formal night attire, I don't believe it said ...."only if you feel like it"

 

You knew this would be a hot button topic on your original post. You aren't the 1st poster that has brought up this topic, I believe it began just a few months after Cruisecritic.com 1st began. You won't be the last.

Excellent post. I agree with you 100%. (I also agree with Toto's post.)

[Corner Exit]

So, I guess this gentleman's attire would not be appropriate for the dinning room, eh??? :p :D :eek:

 

[taxmantoo]

So, I guess this gentleman's attire would not be appropriate for the dinning room, eh??? :p :D :eek:

 

Hard to tell cause we can't see his jeans. Maybe they are "Lucky Sevens" or whatever and maybe he is wearing nice flip flops.

[Pam in CA]

Hard to tell cause we can't see his jeans. Maybe they are "Lucky Sevens" or whatever and maybe he is wearing nice flip flops.

Sure you can see his jeans. They look like well-loved $100 jeans to me.

 

<tongue firmly in cheek>

[peterv]

On the one hand, you advocate that people should dress comfortably, whether or not their idea of comfort complies with the dress code. On the other hand, you have proposed a minimum standard of dress which YOU deem acceptable ("not dressing as if they were mucking in a barn") and which you wish others to respect.

 

I believe the poster was not referring to making a new dress code, only that most people would dress adequately.

 

However in our case, we could not care any less about what anyone chooses to wear. Unless the stench that wells up from it or them causes violations of the health code, so be it.

 

We are there to eat not participate in a catwalk fashion show, have cute "fun" photos taken, or pretend that we are the Bonds, Astors or Guggenheims of the world.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[chefim]

I really think that this thread has gotten out of hand.

Maybe it's a generational thing. Maybe some are formal and stuffy.

 

Why do people have to be rude in their responses? We all have the right to our opinion and must be respectful of others'.

 

The mere fact that so many people are worried about what's the proper attire in the dining room leads me to feel that people should wear what they are most comfortable in (with of course not dressing as if they were mucking in a barn).

 

Those who don't like how I'm or my family is dressed can look the other way, because believe me, I won't be looking at you!

 

Princess Cruise lines has a right to their opinion as well, and they have expressed it in their dress code. The fact that the cruise line does not enforce this to the letter does not give individuals the right to their own opinions on the proper interpretation of the dress code. That is what is being disputed here.

 

Chef