Entertainment and Dress Suggestions

[Iamboatman]

I thought I would start a fresh thread on the two topics raised in another thread: Changes in entertainment and possible relaxing of the formality of the dress code.

 

OK, I'll start:

 

I really wouldn't get crazy over a single report about a single man on a single evening on a single cruise...but that's just me. Any thoughts about Country Club Casual with limited or no formal nights?

 

As for the entertainment, there are some that want nothing to change. They will be disappointed as things do change.

 

There are others that want entertainment things changed. I am sure I can find a number of posts about the entertainment being amateurish, repetitive, boring, or worse. They will be happy that things will change.

 

There are others that will be disappointed with the morphing of the entertainment changes. Seabourn has a diverse clientèle and finding the right mix is going to take some experimentation.

 

Why not look at this a bit more positively and discuss what you would LIKE to see and why rather than complain about unknowns or possibilities as if they exists and are carved in stone?

 

Me thinks Seabourn would look very carefully at that!

[LaPaloma]

We left the Sea Goddess [when they were part of Seabourn for a short time]-- and they had converted SG to Country Club casual-- there are quite a few people that had weird ideas about CC casual-- for example one "gentleman" showed up at the lovely cocktail party, they used to have before dinner, with a muscle shirt, dirty shorts, and flip flops. He was the worst example, but some of the others were nearly as bad. It took one trip with CC casual to convert us to Seabourn--this was after a personal call from Warren Titus--to cool us down after we complained--he said try Seabourn--you will love it--we did!!! A lot of us live full time in a casual atmosphere--in Tucson thats the way it is--most of the time! We really look forward to packing up the fancy duds, and flying off to Seabourn--for us, it had better not change! We have been there, and CC casual just doesn't make it! Don

[cruiseyguy]

In the end, it's all about business. If a cruiseline gains more pax with CC Casual than it loses by changing from a stricter dress code, then that's the way it will go. Yes, there is much discussion on CC about dress codes. But cruiselines seem to be the only area of the hospitality industry that still has them in a strict sense (i.e., casual, semi-formal, formal, etc.). And if most of the lines change for competitive reasons, those seeking the stricter standards have no where else to go, except to quit cruising (and vacation at the Greenbrier or the Homestead).

[wripro]

Personally, I think the itinerary should have a lot to do with the dress code. Perhaps in the Carribbean no formal nights, just informal and CCC. On crossings I think there should definitely be formal nights in the tradition of ocean liner crossings. Likewise in the Baltic and Northern Europe where the climate is cooler. In the Med it might depend on the season, eliminating formal nights in the heat of July and August. This is just my opinion, of course. I happen to like the formal nights, but am trying to be realistic in terms of the current trends. The truth is, as Iamboatman says, no matter what they do they will offend someone.

 

As for entertainment, again I personally do not care for the shows. How many bad Broadway reviews can you sit through? But I understand others do like them.I have no idea what will happen if they have a DJ instead of the ADs. One area where I think Seabourn could make an improvement is to have both the Club and the Constellation Lounge open for drinks before and after dinner with different cabaret style entertainment so people could have a choice. When the ship is full and you arrive in the Club around 7, it is sometimes hard to find a seat so another option would be welcome.

[Iamboatman]

I, personally, would be disappointed if formal nights were totally eliminated. Cruising is one of the last bastions of elegant evenings. I don't think, however, that having more Country Club Casual results in muscle shirts and shorts.

 

I think having a "collared shirt and jackets required" in the main restaurant on all non-formal evenings would be a good compromise. Obviously how things are handled on the triplets will probably be a bit different than the twins as the dining and lounge options will be different.

 

On the entertainment front, I would take good recorded music over bad live music in a lounge any day. And live piano with drinks is always nice. I am not a big fan of shows, so I am a bit indifferent about them. Usually when I travel it is the people that I find the entertainment with. I do tend to go to shows where local talent is brought on board, though.

 

One thing I am very confident about is that the motivation of Seabourn is not to find cost-cutting measures (as I have seen implied elsewhere) but to improve the entertainment so that it meets the expectations of a wider cross-section of guests...while not offending the loyal past guests who want to keep things the same.

[johnnycruise]

I like the "mixed" dress codes.

 

I really don't want to pack formal attire for a single evening - make it two nights per week in order to make our packing, folding and ironing efforts worthwhile. On the other end of the spectrum, I don't want to be "required" to wear a jacket on either the first or last evening - these evenings are preceded by either lengthy amounts of unpacking or packing time ... if the lifeboat drill is at five and dinner is just past seven, who wants to have to gulp down the initial mojito in order to shower, shave and impress the other weary travelers? Alternately, no one likes to pack for home, but it is somewhat required. Does anyone really want to prepare for a semi-formal evening immediately after cramming the previous week's dirty laundry into a suitcase?

 

Somewhat related questions - What are the Assistance Cruise Directors of the Legend going to do in three weeks? Are they leaving Seabourn, going on vacation or joining a different triplet?

 

johnny

[cruiseyguy]

For me, "collared shirts & jacket required" would be perfect for me EVERY night. That's what I wear on Seabourn now, except for Formal nights and deck parties. There's no packing issue--my shirts are RL Polo knit shirts, which double for "day wear" and my jacket is a blue blazer, which I wear on the airplane. Add a few slacks & I'm set to go. The formal nights are nice but the loss of them would not affect my cruise in any way, except to making packing easier and create suitcase space for purchases and gifts.

[LaPaloma]

The Ships Are Going Full--you Better Book Well In Advance To Get A Reservation--for The Single Passengers It's A Real Battle To Get A Good Rate--maybe They Should Make A Bunch Of Changes To Make More Space Available???maybe Have The Dining Room And Other Staff Serve In Shorts And Tee Shirts. What Other Good Ideas Can We Come Up With To Messup A Good Deal? On Entertainment--i Have Been On Seabourn For 13 Cruises--some Of The Entertainment Has Not Been Great, But None Has Been That Bad. The Kids Try Hard And Most Of The Time Do Very Well! We Have Seen All Of The Great Entertainers Of The 20 Th Century, And Had The Honor Of Introducing And Enjoying Some Of The Very Best Including Bob Hope, Tony Bennett, The Osmands, Phillis Diller, Johnny Cash,etc--and Believe Me They Would All Have Enjoyed The Hard Working Kids On Seabourn! Don And Lola

[cruiseyguy]

I'm not sure "the ships are full" means much, no more than the airplanes are "packed." What counts are the margins--are they making money. And since Seabourn is part of a publically-held corporation, they are legally obligated to the shareholders to maximize profits, not just cover costs. Carnival does not break out its various cruiselines in its Annual Report so it is very difficult to determine Seabourn's profitability.

[dalliowner]

My wife and I really look foward to formal evenings, even in the hot climates as the ships are air conditioned.There are so few formal places any more and we find it is good to spend a little time getting ready especially when at sea. I would agree that the first and last nights should be more relaxed.

As to entertaiment, as long as there is an alternative lounge with either music or even a quiz you have the choice to watch the entertainment or not. The problem of better more elaborate entertainment is it requires outside entertainers who require cabins which is ecconomically not viable on the triplets

[Jaffa]

I would like to see formal nights on sea days only.

Lots of time to prepare and it's a nice lift to end a relaxing sea day. I hate being rushed and half exuasted after a long and hectic port and tour day. I just do'nt enjoy the formals nights as much as l do the sea day one's.

 

I also believe the main night entertainment options should also be on sea days.

The new shows, singers, bigger acts ect, ect.

The deck film nights, piano recitals, dj's ect should happen on the port day evenings.

 

This way if you have a port intensive itin which some people prefer, the nights are a bit more relaxed and easy going and much more manageable.

 

Those, like me who prefer the sea day cruises can get into all the formal and traditional stuff without to much to'ing and frowing to try and fit it all in and enjoy it all at the same time.

Sometimes l think we forget, it is a vacation.

 

Cheers

[blackbird71]

Just IMHO, for a seven day Caribbean cruise there should be TWO formal nights or NO formal nights. Both my cruises had ONE formal night and I thought it was crazy to have to pack a Tux for one night only

 

I really like RSSC Web site and the fact they list the dress code by night on a cruise. For my New Zealand cruise. :)

[JaneBP]

I would like to see formal nights on sea days only.

Lots of time to prepare and it's a nice lift to end a relaxing sea day. I hate being rushed and half exuasted after a long and hectic port and tour day. I just do'nt enjoy the formals nights as much as l do the sea day one's.

 

I also believe the main night entertainment options should also be on sea days.

The new shows, singers, bigger acts ect, ect.

The deck film nights, piano recitals, dj's ect should happen on the port day evenings.

 

This way if you have a port intensive itin which some people prefer, the nights are a bit more relaxed and easy going and much more manageable.

 

Those, like me who prefer the sea day cruises can get into all the formal and traditional stuff without to much to'ing and frowing to try and fit it all in and enjoy it all at the same time.

Sometimes l think we forget, it is a vacation.

 

Cheers

 

Ditto, Jaffa.

[PittsburghJack]

IMHO........I haven't yet cruised with Seabourn (booked next May), but from other cruise experiences, I say keep the formal nights and dress codes.

During my professional life I was dressed in a three peice suit daily. When I retired, I evolved into what I thought was "casual". After about six months I looked in the mirror and said to myself "You look like a/an (fill in your appropriate word).

We enjoy dressing occasionally. As "some guy" once said "I think I look pretty dam good in a tux.":D Jack

[JaneBP]

>" As "some guy" once said "I think I look pretty dam good in a tux."

 

That's the truth. The men on this BB are very handsome, and the tux is delicious window dressing. And you all know who you are.....Don, Brian, Larry, and so many others.

[Iamboatman]

One thing to keep in mind is that space for entertainers is very limited on the triplets, but there will be more on the twins. Therefore some of the entertainment is bound to be more diverse and/or elaborate on the twins.

 

I believe Seabourn is looking into a small orchestra/group as an addition. Any thoughts on that?

[cruiseyguy]

A small orchestra? For what purpose? To play fox trots and waltzes? I think a jazz/soft jazz group makes a lot more sense. It will be interesting to see the "game plan" for the triplets after the new ships are in service. My own wish is that they use them for casual, port-intensive cruises to exotic & unusual places, highlighted by specialized, small-group excursions (such as a photography excursion led by a professional photographer). Imagine an Abercrombie and Kent at sea. The big ships can continue the traditional "Seabourn experience" with formal nights, entertainment, Trivia and smoking.

[LaPaloma]

A wise adage is what should be heeded...Don't Fix..what isn't broke! You have full ships...ask yourself why? We love what we now have!

[Iamboatman]

Good point: Maybe "orchestra" is a bad term. I guess I should have said, "How about a small group of diverse musicians that can play a number of genre?"

 

As for "it ain't broke", there is much to be said for that, but times, demographics change and so do the guests.

 

I am sure there are a whole host of things which Seabourn does that it didn't do before: Movies under the stars; Sky Grill; 2; limiting smoking to specific areas; etc. I don't think those changes have been too upsetting for most repeat guests and have been warmly welcomed by other repeaters and new guests, as well.

 

I bet there are some things which Seabourn doesn't do any longer and those eliminations improved the experience. (Frankly some of the posters with more onboard experience may want to discuss them...and I am sure they could better than I.)

 

With Seabourn obviously looking to expand its markets, the time to try some things may be now...as long as it isn't too much at one time. And while some take great comfort and joy hearing X sing Y again - "just like the last 5 cruises" - others are saying, "Not X doing Y again!" So maybe X does Z or A does Y or maybe a combination can work for everyone.

 

It would be a shame for the new ships to be totally "different" in experience...and a very expensive experiment. Even if totally successful, I can hear the voices now, "How come that is only on the new ships? That should also be on the triplets."

[cruiseyguy]

The problem for the triplets after the new ships are operational is that many customers, especially new customers, will perceive the triplets as a lesser experience (yes, I know some loyalists insist they will stick with the triplets but they haven't seen the "twins" yet). To avoid this comparison, Seabourn may want to utilize the triplets in a completely different manner. Doing so would also allow Seabourn to justify a different pricing structure than for the new ships. Otherwise, I'm not sure Seaourn can avoid pricing the triplet "experience" significantly lower than for the new ships since the older ships, with fewer facilities and options, will be seen as much less desirable when compared to the "twins." Realistically, I think most people, if asked to pay the same $X per diem for any of the ships, will choose the newer ones.

[Iamboatman]

Cruisey, I am not sure how much you have cruised on Seabourn (I really don't know, not a flame!), but the essence of Seabourn has always been "Service, service and service." That is combined with going to ports other ships simply cannot go to because they are too large. In other words, it is about "software" and "experiences"; not "hardware".

 

There are also many that prefer the smaller ships. I, personally, love the smaller ships. Anything larger than the Radisson Diamond is a compromise for me...except for the bigger/better spas. I've been on everything from the Celebrity Millennium class ships, to the Regent Mariner to the QM2 to the Regent Navigator and prefer the triplets for a cruise without the kids. I love, and am looking forward to, the ambiance and the "I could never see this place on a land vacation or on another ship." That is worth a premium to me.

 

Does that mean I would forego the new ships? No. Would I think the new ships might be great for a world cruise or longer journeys not able to be broken down into 7 or 14 day segments? Yes. And to take those cruises in Seabourn style is also worth a premium to me.

 

(As I doubt Seabourn will be running a triplet and a twin on the same itineraries comparison pricing may well be difficult.)

 

I don't know any cruise line that emphasizes that each of its ships are identical. They all try to give a bit of diversity within a consistent theme. We know Seabourn's theme, it is just trying to polish and tweak it up a bit so it isn't the tired same old same old.

[cruiseyguy]

Iamboatman-FYI-I'm one week shy of my "free" Seabourn cruise; I took a 28-day Grand Voyage and a 14-day cruise last year and a 14 day cruise earlier this year. I am pretty familar with Seabourn. As a travel agent, you should know that a number of cruiselines have had difficulties finding a niche for their older "hardware" after newer ships became available--Crystal discounted Harmony for a couple of years before it was sold, same with Celebrity's Zenith, Radisson/Regent's Song of (whatever). I am assuming Seabourn will be able to provide the same service on all of its ships since service is a signature of the product (although many key people on the triplets are seeking to serve on the new ships). That being the case, I do not think they will be able to market and operate the triplets in the same manner as they now do at the same price point as the new ships. They may try to do so but it won't work.

[Iamboatman]

I don't think you, I or anyone here can speak with authority about what Seabourn can, can't or won't be able to do. I think you have a few probably inaccurate premises, though.

 

First, Seabourn has never said that the price point for ship A is X and it will also be for Y. Heck, the per diem for the same cruise varies by week, not ship. I think that concept is a non-starter...personally.

 

Second, there clearly is going to be a marketing change. Capacity and facilities will be up. Demographics will change. (No offense to anyone, but while older loyal passengers are the bread and butter of today, as we all know, for various reasons those passengers eventually reduce or stop cruising and new passengers - axiomatically generally younger - have to be found. (BTW, by younger I am speaking of 45-55.)

 

Third, the dynamics of Regent is irrelevant: They have been consistently downsizing (Song of Flower, then Diamond, then Paul Gauguin in 2008) with nothing new on the horizon. Want to cruise on Regent this summer...pick a cruise, almost any cruise, and you can get a cabin of your choice.

 

Similarly, Celebrity today is not Chandris of yesterday. Zenith was actually very popular - even without balconies - because it was intimate and it cruises many longer cruises because Celebrity's older passengers liked her better. And, further, there is a huge difference between the Zenith and the Millennium and soon to be Solstice class mega-ships. Zenith was swapped in the RCI Pullmantur purchase as the R ships were being underutilized in Europe and much higher revenue could be earned in the US market...the highest per diems of any Celebrity ship. Trying to compare that to Seabourn doesn't make sense. Even Celebrity agrees: They created Azamara for the R ships because marketing different products under the same banner is confusing. But marketing different sized ships with similar products (Century class and Solstice class for example) does make sense.

 

As for Crystal, I don't know what or why they are doing what they are doing, but again it was downsizing.

[SantaAna,CA]

I love formal nights; the more the better. April of 2006, on a two-week Legend Caribbean cruise, we had four formal nights. I was in heaven. I would be very, very disappointed if Seabourn discontinued the formal nights in favor of something less "dressy".

 

The entertainment isn't really an issue for me. I'm happy to go see it, or not. But losing the formal nights would be disappointing, to say the least. On last December's Pride Caribbean cruise, they had only one formal night in a week.

 

Jane :(

[wripro]

I happen to agree with Iamboatman that Seabourn is looking to the future in possible dress code changes. Whether any of us like it or not (and I do like formal nights) the overall trend is moving toward more casual attire. As someone else posted it is silly to pack a tuxedo and all the accompanying requirements for one night on a Caribbean cruise and many younger (45-55) people do not want to do that. That is the demographinc Seabourn is pursuing for the next 20 years. Again, as Iamboatman points out, there have been other changes through the years that Seabourn has made reflecting changing attitudes and trends and it has never affected the total Seabourn experience.