Lets move on - Enough with discounting

[TWELVEOHONE]

The otrher cruise lines will also have a no discounting no rebating policy like RCCL, Celebrity and Carnival, so live with it.

 

Interesting points

Mark Pestronk, a travel industry attorny saus that the cruise lines have every legal right to do this. They set prices and commission structures to agents. Period so forget legal action.

 

Scott Barry a cruise line analyst with Credit Suisse First Boston said that "discouraging rebating was healthy" So it would appear that the cruise lines are making a good decision.

 

Bottom line its done and like it or not nothing you can do about it, so lets drop the subject and move on.

[tbelian]

But i'm sure you will get a lot of responses that would argue that 'this is still a valid discussion topic and that is what 'this board' is all about' .... HOWEVER, that, so far, is ALL it has been, a discussion topic. I have seen/read nothing here so far that would turn me away from cruising, or shopping for a good deal on a cruise.

 

Let the horse lie down. It's been beaten.

[Joe Beach]

it never ceases to amaze me how the mouse pointer controls you. On my computer it's me that does the pointing and clicking. Readers should note that the originator of this msg posted the same thing on several forums, which leads me to believe -- could it be-- a biased observer, a TA??? or just plain someone that accepts anything (I wish I had a bridge to sell you), or they have no idea what power the internet has brought us.

 

While it may (MAY) not ultimately resolve anything, DO NOT underestimate this discussion. If you think the cruiselines are not monitoring all of these discussions, pull your head out of your.......ah, sand. One thing corporations play on is consumers are disorganized as a group, this forum allows for organization. Use it, like, don't book anything for a while and see what happens-- oops, now they've read our plan, well, "...its done and like it or not [there's] nothing you can do about it"

[tbelian]

If you think the cruiselines are not monitoring all of these discussions, pull your head out of your.......ah, sand.

 

'Monitoring' ? That sounds a bit Orwellian ..

 

And, even if they are listening in, they also know that the posters on CC only represent an incredibly small fraction of the overall cruising population.

[Randyk47]

I'd have to agree that it's going to take just a few more folks than the ones represented here and probably the other hand full of cruise vacation related sites to get the cruiselines attention. However, I also don't put much store in the "Interesting Points" quoted by Twelveohone since both sources show a bias towards the cruiseline corporations. What else would you expect one of their attorneys to say...."What we did was illegal and we're just waiting to get put in jail." ???? And sure it's a good financial move....they're most probably going to make more money. I'm just going to wait this out and see how it all settles. I've booked my next cruise, several months ago with a nice discount, so I'm set for the time being.

[Joe Beach]

tb

 

what is your reliable source to state that cc is such a small number? or did you forget to put "IMO"

 

And since when is a small number insignificant, if there is a loud voice (influence). Look how small numbered lobbyists control so many things the large populations do not want.

[TEXASMUNK]

My two cents....

 

Since these boards began how many posts have said......

 

Soft drinks should be free.....

 

Drinks are too expensive.....

 

Quality of food is down.....

 

Cruise lines nickel and dime you to death....

 

all the time discounting has grown rampant.

 

I, for one, would rather pay a few more bucks than to have one more person approach me on a cruise and ask..."how much did you pay?"

 

I would prefer a ship with an 85% occupancy rate (at a higher cost per person) than a ship with a 100% occupancy rate and fewer of the staff being stiffed on tips because some of the passengers were traveling on a shoe string and knew full well that they had no intention of tipping. Heck, it might even improve crew morale and thus improve attitudes and we might see a few more smiles.

 

Deals will still be found. But putting the brakes on the ever slippery slope of discounts is not a bad thing.

 

PS..I used to work for a major airline and KNOW full well that yes you can fly full planes and LOSE money..anybody remember People Express? Pan AM? Eastern?

 

No, I am not a shill for the Travel Industry...just a very satisfied cruiser

[smeyer418]

don't forget TWA-I have been on everyone of those. didn't peoples merge into what eventually become Continental?---the wings of man...is there still a white star line?

[CelebrityMan]

...now there was a good chuckle.

 

White Star was absorbed by Cunard in the 1930s and today sails the QM2, et al. And I doubt the orchestra even knows the music for "Autumn" or "Nearer, My God To Thee" (whichever version it was...).

 

I don't mind the 'discounting' discussion. Like a previous poster, I have the power of my mouse click. But since today is but day one of the new policies, let us all draw a long, deep breath of invigorating sea air, relax into our deck chairs, and see how this all plays out.

[TEXASMUNK]

Continental has been around a long time. once a Denver based airline...once known for their piano bars in the rear of the DC-10 from Chicago to LA. They were taken over by Frank Lorenzo who rode them off into the sunset of bankrupcy court....today they are a well run operation based out of Houston.

[gardencat]

Jim Munkittrick,

 

If it would mean the end of nickel and diming I too would be willing to pass up the discounting.

Maybe this will help divide the cruise industry into two segments; those who allow discounting and attract bargain hunters who pay low rates for a bare-bones cruise and are willing to pay for anything extra that they want on board, and those that revert to a more traditional, more inclusive, more expensive up front cruise.

Now that doesn't sound too bad to me. As long as we don't loose our discounts but still continue with the extra charge escalation.

[Randyk47]

I too would hope we'd see an end to the spiral of increased on board charges and lowering of quality but I don't see how stopping discounting is going to make a difference to the cruiseline's bottom line. Since the discount was mostly accommodated by the booking agency out of their commission it will have very little impact on what the cruiseline actually winds up with. The only real way cruiselines will really increase their cash flow is to either raise fares or do more direct booking themselves and cut out external TA's. I don't buy into the idea that cruiselines "dumbed down" their service because people were getting discounts.

[woodofpine]

The cruiselines are cutting it competitively close to the bone presently. If unauthorized TA discounting in ANY appreciable way impairs the bottom line then it will become a target of the lines. External TAs are almost certainly an eventual casualty in cruiseline travel. As they were for airlines, they are simply too costly a distribution mechanism given the present alternatives. As with the airlines, their disenfranchisement did not lead to higher fares. Although the demise of TAs in air travel didn't lead to a healthier airline industry, it didn't hurt it either. The airline industry has been hurt by the sort of economics that may eventually hurt the cruiselines, the inability due to capacity to increase fares in the face of cost creep. That situation is not affected either way by TAs.

[Ocean Boy]

True, the present situation of how much the cruise line makes is not affected by the TA discounting. That comes out of the TA's commission. But if there is no difference between the price I can get from a TA and the cruise line then I will book directly with the cruise line. In the past I have given up having control of my booking in exchange for a better price. So if more people start booking directly with the cruise line they will be making more money as the funds that would have been paid out in commisions will now stay within the company.

 

TA's who are happy with this new policy are really very short sighted. In the short term they will be making more by keeping all of their commision but in the long run there may be no commisions at all as people start booking directly with the cruise lines. The airlines have had this all figured out for awhile.

[Ocean Boy]

Bottom line its done and like it or not nothing you can do about it, so lets drop the subject and move on.

 

Feel free to do so at any time that you wish.

[tbelian]

tb

 

what is your reliable source to state that cc is such a small number? or did you forget to put "IMO"

 

And since when is a small number insignificant, if there is a loud voice (influence). Look how small numbered lobbyists control so many things the large populations do not want.

 

A.) Reliable source? ... just do the numbers, here is a formula ... number of cc members / total cruising population = percentage. And thats being liberal ... not taken into account is the 'active/inactive' nature of the base member population (ie; those who contribute, or read on a regular basis).

 

 

B.) Small number insignificant ? ... again, do the numbers. What would YOU do if you were the corporation ... base everything on a 1%-2% (ok 5%) baseline? I wouldn't.

 

Sorry if this comes off a little 'coarse', but I have yet to read of anything that was posted here having an actual impact on what the cruise line did. One might argue 'what about the corkage fee thing?'. Possibly, but again, doubtful that this crowd had everything to do with it. People scream bloody murder when they are 'fouled' by the cruise line, but rarely, if ever, come back to tell us 'the rest of the story'.

[Giorgi-one]

Does anyone really believe that cruise lines are going to increase quality because they are decreasing commissions? If you do, I have a bridge for sale. I firmly believe that both Carnival and RCCL had this move as part of their long term business plan to buy up other cruise lines. The only surprise to me is that RCCL did it before Carnival. Prices were already starting to go up with discounts, now they will go even higher. It's not just the $100 that the small TAs won't have to discount that the cruise lines are looking at. It's the special pricing that they were giving to the large discouners. The difference between the price I paid for my next cruise and the Cruise line Web site is almost $600 per person. And if they make us book directly with the cruise line, they save the entire commission too. Most people are on a very limited budget for vacations. Many of them will go elsewhere. Some will still cruise and cut back on extas like shore excursions and TIPS. Yes, I said TIPS. There is a significant number of cuisers who do not tip or tip very little and that number will grow. It wll be an interesting 6 months or so. If enough people resist and try other vacations for a little while, this will probably go away. If not, everyone will pay a lot more for the same deteriorating product.

[I Need A Vacation!]

Airlines stopped giving meals etc. Airlines analogy is a little off as many people travel by air because they have to. Cruising is a choice we might make.

 

With respect to the price. One poster mentioned that crews might be "stiffed" by those who do not tip. Cruising may be a rich man's venue but some might experience it if they did not have to pay the extras, like tipping, shore excursions from the cruise line, etc. That few $100 discount may mean that someone might cruise. Add the discounts, and is double for those travelling with someone else, the tips, the excursions, etc and some people might not be able to take a cruise vacation. We all lose as many of those people are really nice people.

 

The cruise industry is building "McDonald" type ships - make the money on volume. A 3000 pax ship keeping $400 or $500 more per pax is making about an additional $1500000 more plus the full commission if booked directly with the cruise line. Say another $3000000. Wow $4500000 for say 50 trips per year gives us $22500000 thats per ship in a fleet. Lets face it ... the cruise industry needs more profits. Why dont they just pay their staff a liveable wage, cut out 'mandatory' tipping so the paying pax will not be squeezed so much.

 

Any of you rich do gooders like to talk about the above numbers?

[cruisersdm]

I'm not concerned, but the cruiselines mayl find that they may price themselves out of passengers. As long as cruising will be a good value, cruising will be our choice. But, if they are overpriced, we will find a great land vacation as an alternate. I'm sure I'm not alone.

[chessbriar]

The cruiselines still have to compete with each other. That will keep prices in check. RCCL just doesn't want to be competing with RCCL. In that case the ones who lose are the sales people.

[Giorgi-one]

Chessbriar:

 

The point is there is no competition. Three companies control all cruise lines -RCCL, Carnival and NCL. RCCL and Carnival have both announced the no discount policy (What a surprise that both made announcements at almost the same time). Whether NCL does it or not is really immateral, since they only have a few ships and if everyone decides to go to NCL, prices will rise based purely on supply and demand.

[Randyk47]

Cruisersdm is right on. Cruising for us has been our primary focus for vacations. If it gets to the point where it costs the same or even more than other vacations options then cruising will be an option instead of our preference.

[Ocean Boy]

I completely agree with you that quality will not increase either with less commissions paid out or with higher fares. However, regarding passengers cutting back on tips, it may happen and then the rest of the lines will get away from tipping and add a service charge to our seapass accounts just like NCL has done.

 

This simply is a no win situation for the consumer. Too many people have the attitude that there is nothing that can be done so just accept it and big business is well aware of that.

[Giorgi-one]

I Need a Vacation:

 

You missed on zero. That 225,000,000 per year.

[kruz]

OceanBoy!!! Haha..I found you!!! It's me...Kruz..hey you have anything booked yet?

Garfield and Razl and myself are headed on the Jewel of the Seas April 23...wanna join us???