Lets move on - Enough with discounting

[Giorgi-one]

Actually it's a win-win situation for the consumer. Just stop cruising for 6 months and the cruise lines will be begging you to come back. I know that some people will cruise at any cost, but if fares approach the cruise line advertised prices, I believe that a significant number of people will opt for other vacations.

[Joe Beach]

Randy and Ocean boy are right, I don't see how the stopping of discounting increases the cruiseline's cut, since the discounts come from other's monies. However, I agree that a ploy may be (and most probably is) to get more direct bookings with the cruiseline, which in turn increases their profit. Another posible aspect of profit is, if by stopping discounting it lowers the extra commissions and overrides they have to pay the big sellers, because they are selling less, that could increase RCL money.

 

It will be interesting to see how this will last. I don't think cruiselines can be as successful at this tact as airlines. They really need the many location link for neophite cruisers. Cruising is NOT point to point travel like airlines.

 

Meanwhile, unless I missed something, I think Carnival sucker punched RCL. Carnival started this first with the policy regarding the advertising of discounts, and still is limited to that as confirmed by Dickinson quote in this week's WSJ article. RCL followed suit, but then changed the policy to include any vehicle of "selling" at a discount (just like in poker, CCL bluff bids, and RCL saw it and then raised the bid). Now as it stands, RCL is stuck with being the only one holding to the selling aspect. CCL must be having a good laugh as they collect all the cruise sales from clients that won't book RCL now/soon. Out foxed again!!

[Ocean Boy]

That is my week to go unless I try one week later next year. Where is Jewel going that week???

[MiaHeat]

Chessbriar:

 

The point is there is no competition. Three companies control all cruise lines -RCCL, Carnival and NCL. RCCL and Carnival have both announced the no discount policy (What a surprise that both made announcements at almost the same time). Whether NCL does it or not is really immateral, since they only have a few ships and if everyone decides to go to NCL, prices will rise based purely on supply and demand.

They just dont want T/A's to "ADVERTISE" a disconted rate. Every travel agency pays the same price to RCCL, IF THE T/A WANTS TO DISCOUNT HIS or HERS COMMISSION WHATS TO STOP THEM.......NO ONE!! (AS long as they dont advertise ofcourse)

[Cal Cruiser]

I think Joe Beach is right RCCL should not care what the T/A sells a cruise for.

CCL just said what the advertise price is, not what the T/A sells the cruise for. If theT/A wants to give up some of its commission, no big deal.

I think that CCL took RCCL to the cleaners again?

[wieslaw]

A.) Reliable source? ... just do the numbers, here is a formula ... number of cc members / total cruising population = percentage. And thats being liberal ... not taken into account is the 'active/inactive' nature of the base member population (ie; those who contribute, or read on a regular basis).

 

 

B.) Small number insignificant ? ... again, do the numbers. What would YOU do if you were the corporation ... base everything on a 1%-2% (ok 5%) baseline? I wouldn't.

 

Sorry if this comes off a little 'coarse', but I have yet to read of anything that was posted here having an actual impact on what the cruise line did. One might argue 'what about the corkage fee thing?'. Possibly, but again, doubtful that this crowd had everything to do with it. People scream bloody murder when they are 'fouled' by the cruise line, but rarely, if ever, come back to tell us 'the rest of the story'.

 

tbelian.....You are so right, but so few of 'us' will agree ....

 

Projected for 2004 - number of total cruisers will be 10600000 people.

Cruise Critic registered members are about 107700 (now) and lets say it will be 115000 at the end of this year --- that is only 1.08 percent......out of that number how many actively participate in any of the forums......out of that number how many ever agree on anything - it is usually 10 participants and 20 different opinions......so our 'numbers' and all the 'comments' ,if we like it or not do not ever change anything.

If every one of us on this board stopped cruising.....the cruising industry will not even noticed or be concerned that much......the supply of cruising capacity is just about short and can not meet the demand......no big wonder or secret that prices will reflect that......read portion of the article which I will attach.

 

Happy cruising.......Wes

 

 

CRUISE INDUSTRY CHARTING COURSE FOR ANOTHER RECORD YEAR, CLIA CHAIRMAN MARK CONROY TELLS SEATRADE AUDIENCE

By

New York (March 16, 2004) - The cruise industry is poised to shatter the 10 million passenger mark by the end of 2004, Mark Conroy, chairman of the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) told attendees at this year’s Seatrade Cruise Shipping Conference.

 

Today’s cruise industry is riding a wave of strong consumer demand, improving economic conditions in North America and growing consumer recognition of cruising’s broad appeal and high guest-satisfaction levels. By maintaining current occupancy rates, CLIA member cruise lines have the potential to host 10.6 million vacationers in 2004, an increase of 1.1 million passengers, or 11.5 %, from the industry’s record-setting total of 9.5 million guests in 2003. One-half of all 2004 passengers will be cruising for the first time, said Conroy.

 

In his keynote address preceding the conference’s annual “State of the Industry” session, Conroy, who is also president of Radisson Seven Seas Cruises, said the cruise industry has successfully surmounted the terrorism fears and economic uncertainty that have challenged the entire travel community over the past two years. As evidence, Conroy pointed to cruising’s average occupancy rate of 102.3 % in 2003.

 

In the five-year period ending in 2004, CLIA cruise lines will have introduced 62 new ships since 2000, and passenger demand has actually exceeded the cruise industry’s rapid capacity growth, said Conroy.

 

 

 

Wes

[calsuzie]

At least to disagree with those who have said that posting to these threads is pointless because no one at RCCL is looking or caring.

 

I just got a new Celebrity Guest Panel Survey today, and guess what it was about? How often do you cruise, how important is price to you, do you use a travel agent, who are your favorite travel agents, which cruise lines do you patronize, etc. etc. etc.

 

I certainly think that something got their attention, and I prefer to believe that all the discussion on these threads contributed to that "heads up"!

 

Susie

[Brneyznfl]

Meanwhile, unless I missed something, I think Carnival sucker punched RCL. Carnival started this first with the policy regarding the advertising of discounts, and still is limited to that as confirmed by Dickinson quote in this week's WSJ article. RCL followed suit, but then changed the policy to include any vehicle of "selling" at a discount (just like in poker, CCL bluff bids, and RCL saw it and then raised the bid). Now as it stands, RCL is stuck with being the only one holding to the selling aspect. CCL must be having a good laugh as they collect all the cruise sales from clients that won't book RCL now/soon. Out foxed again!!

I thought about this too! At least with the less restrictive policy Carival has imposed they can revise it without looking like complete idiots!

[smeyer418]

I have been told that the memo that Carnival sent out says no rebating as well....

[lddam]

Actually it's a win-win situation for the consumer. Just stop cruising for 6 months and the cruise lines will be begging you to come back. I know that some people will cruise at any cost, but if fares approach the cruise line advertised prices, I believe that a significant number of people will opt for other vacations.

 

Me, for one

[Cruise Junky]

 

I think Carnival sucker punched RCL. Carnival started this first with the policy regarding the advertising of discounts, and still is limited to that as confirmed by Dickinson quote in this week's WSJ article. RCL followed suit, but then changed the policy to include any vehicle of "selling" at a discount (just like in poker, CCL bluff bids, and RCL saw it and then raised the bid). Now as it stands, RCL is stuck with being the only one holding to the selling aspect. CCL must be having a good laugh as they collect all the cruise sales from clients that won't book RCL now/soon. Out foxed again!!

 

I so agree with this statement, I was thinking the exact same thing.. Carnival led RCI down the garden path..and then POW. I would never sail on Carnival (Just personal opinion..) but this was a great move on their part!

[ljones]

Wieslaw -

 

You count each CC member only once in the # of people cruising in a given year - I know I generally have cruised 3 times a year. Same for many others here - And, maybe not all, but many CC members spread the word about cruising. I have encouraged many co-workers w/ the value of cruising & they in turn have tried it, loved it, and encouraged others. Today I told many of those same co-workers that I may not be cruising if the policies put forth significantly increase the cost as it appears it will. At best, I will cruise much less.

[joannie]

Carnival management must be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

They got Celebrity/RCCL to more than follow their policy with the no discount even on the phone. Carnival will get more than their fair share of business direct by their program and still be more than price competitive than with the two subject cruise lines.

 

What Carnival did was to get these two other lines to lock themselves into one price for everyone. With Carnival you can still negociate.

 

No matter what you think of these lines for many people the price difference will move people to Carnival.

 

Just a thought or two.

 

Joannie

[Ocean Boy]

Companies should be very careful about giving their customers reason to try the competition. Those customers may just find out that they like the competition just fine and not come back. Cruise lines are in a position to be a bit smug right now as there is a high demand for the service. However, things tend to go in cycles and the time may come when the lines may wish they had those customers back.

 

I also think that a lot of this demand is coming from people who have never cruised before. There are plenty of those people out there believe it or not! Many of these people will try it once as a new vacation experience but not necessarily become repeat cruisers. The cruise lines should be very careful to take care of their repeat customers as they are truly the company's future survival. I can't remember at this time the number of passengers on my Mariner sailing that were repeaters but there would have been significantly less people on board if it weren't for us.

[tbelian]

At least to disagree with those who have said that posting to these threads is pointless because no one at RCCL is looking or caring.

 

 

Well, read the numbers that Wes graciously worked out for us. It's not rocket science. We represent 1%-2%.... a company that makes it business decisions based upon a 1%-2% opinion is destined for failure.

 

Believe what you want about how influential we are, but, again, I haven't seen ONE single example of what is posted on CC having a real impact on decisions coming out of Miami.

[richsea]

Well, read the numbers that Wes graciously worked out for us. It's not rocket science. We represent 1%-2%.... a company that makes it business decisions based upon a 1%-2% opinion is destined for failure.

 

Believe what you want about how influential we are, but, again, I haven't seen ONE single example of what is posted on CC having a real impact on decisions coming out of Miami.

 

 

You may be right abiut the numbers but they DO listen if the uproar is loud enough. One example is when Celebrity tried to charge for thallassotherapy pool on the Millennium class ships about 2 years ago. The protest was so strong that they rescinded the charge within one month.

 

The numbers may not be there, but they have to feel that the opinions expressed here represent a good indicator as to what the cruising public is thinking.

[tbelian]

You may be right abiut the numbers but they DO listen if the uproar is loud enough. One example is when Celebrity tried to charge for thallassotherapy pool on the Millennium class ships about 2 years ago. The protest was so strong that they rescinded the charge within one month.

 

The numbers may not be there, but they have to feel that the opinions expressed here represent a good indicator as to what the cruising public is thinking.

 

There is no way to prove that any opinions expressed here on Cruise Critic regarding the charge for the T-Pool was the decision making factor. As for 'disproving' it, again, let the numbers speak for themselves.

[Giorgi-one]

People on these boards may be only 1 or 2 %, but what makes you think they feel differently than we do. These boards seem to have a mix of long time cruisers, recent addicts and newbies just like the general population. I assume that everyone is looking for a good price and when they find out that their next cruise is $500 per person more than their last cruise, they will start asking questions.

[tbelian]

but what makes you think they feel differently than we do.

 

Differently than who do? I'm talking about the we. We are the 1%-2%, who is the 'they' you referred to? .... Resistance is futile.

 

Like Wes pointed out, there is division among the ranks, even for the we.

[Giorgi-one]

Sorry, my grammar was bad. Previous post had indicated that people on cruise critic site were only about 1-2% of total cruise passengers, and our complaints or actions about higher prices (no discounts) would not have any effect on cruise line policy. What I meant to say was if cruise critic members/viewers are upset, then many of the remaining 98% of cruise passengers will probably have the same reaction to higher prices. I guess that I am assuming that cruise critic members/viewers are a statistical sample of the general cruise population in general. Actually, for most polls, 1-2% is a very high number for a statistical sample. For example, most political polls are based on only a few thousand participants out of about 150 million voters in the U.S. I guess I am hoping that many cruise passengers will have the same reaction, start complaining, refuse to book cruises, etc. I don't think that it would take too many half-empty ships to send a message to the cruise lines.

[Rustynail]

Have a few martini's and everything will be better in the morning..............:p

[tbelian]

I don't think that it would take too many half-empty ships to send a message to the cruise lines.

 

Well, from a rough calculation standpoint, that would mean about 6,700 people would have to choose NOT to cruise each week, just for Celebrity, not including Xpedition. I think that's a long shot.

 

(fleet capacity from 1300-1900 per ship, so, pick a middle point of 1500, 9 ships not including xpedition = 13,500 passenger/week / 2 = 6750.)

[Giorgi-one]

There are over 2500 people on the cruise critic boards right now.

 

All we can do is wait and see. I have cruises already booked thru next August at great prices, so I can wiat them out for one year.

[Randyk47]

I wonder what the statistics are on first time cruisers versus returning cruisers? When I first cruised 10+ years ago I had no experience and had absolutely no idea what I was doing other than going on a vacation on a ship. My point is that if first timers are a substantial portion of the passengers on any given cruise then driving away a few returning cruisers would have little to no impact. On the other hand, if it's the other way around and it's returning cruisers who "fuel the beast" and they drive them away (whether they read this board or not they're going to know that fares have gone up, at least in the terms they're not getting a discount) then it could have substantial impact.

[wieslaw]

Hi Giorgi,

 

I, similar to many, many Cruise Critic Members have been spoiled (and I sure liked that) in the past few years when the demand for cruising was not so high and the capacity was higher than number of potential cruisers......we had our way..... the prices...... the upgrades.

But look at the projected numbers for the next few years.......too many cruisers want to cruise....... so what happens to the price?

The cruise lines can be choosy and change whatever they want to change and the ships still be full.

 

Look at another article from Nov last year.

 

 

NEW YORK, Nov. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- The future of the cruise industry looks bright, according to the latest research conducted for Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) by NFO Plog Research.

 

In its biannual Market Profile Study, CLIA reports that the number of Americans who stated their intent to "definitely" or "probably" take a cruise within the next three years has risen to nearly 44.3 million, a new record.

 

Plog researchers estimated that this level of interest likely will translate into continued market growth that will result in nearly 27 million people taking a cruise vacation during the next three years.

 

The study found that for the majority of respondents, interest in taking a cruise vacation has remained strong over the past two years. Where interest levels have changed, they are more than twice as likely to have increased (32%) than to have decreased (14%).

 

"The study shows that half (56%) of those who have ever cruised have done so in the last five years," says Bob Sharak, CLIA's executive director. "And the number of people interested in cruising continues to grow. The cruise industry is consistently working to add to its pool of satisfied cruisers by adding new ships, itineraries and amenities than ever before to the many options available to today's cruiser, so there truly is a cruise for everyone."

 

Cruising continues to earn high grades in the satisfaction department. The percentage of respondents indicating extreme satisfaction with cruising continues to lead all other types of vacations and even increased by 9 percentage points compared to the study done two years ago.

 

The study found that cruising was rated as better than other vacation in the following key areas:

 

Fine dining (70%)

Being pampered (69%)

Chance to visit several different locations (67%)

Luxury (67%)

 

In particular, nearly 70% of past cruisers consider a cruise a better value for the money than other kinds of vacation experiences.

 

Large activity-packed ships appeal to three out of five (62%) Americans. Two in five find cruises that travel to cultural destinations (45%), upscale luxury ships (41%), or cruises on a new ship (41%) appealing.

 

So if you and I and many other Cruise Critic members will or will not cruise, does not really matter.......there is many more out there that will.

 

Randy,

according to the first article, out of the 10.6 million there were close to 5 million new cruisers.

 

 

Wes