HAL's response to my letter re: AYW dining problems

[Sundagger]

I just received a reply to my letter concerning the problems I experienced on my Jan. 5th Oosterdam cruise, when AYW dining was introduced.

 

When I booked the cruise, there was no such thing as AYW dining on that ship. When I arrived at the terminal, I discovered that I had been placed in the open seating group. My problems in trying to work with the dining room staff are documented in detail in posts 106, 110 & 111 of the sticky As You Wish Dining - What and How.

 

I'm pretty easy going and non-confrontational, but the frustration of dealing with unresponsive staff (when I could even locate/call them) about one of the only "make or break" facets of cruising for me led me to write a letter of complaint. While I eventually did get almost what I wanted through meetings with the Guest Relations Manager, it was more unpleasant to me than the week of Code Red or the storm and late boarding on embarkation day. As it turned out, the last 5 days of the cruise were pleasant and just about what I expect from HAL.

 

I had written to "the Office of" the CEO/President, since I presume that he has more important things to do than investigate typical problems. I received a letter from the Senior Advisor in the Office stating that "Mr. Kruse has reviewed your letter in detail, and has asked me to respond on his behalf". I don't know if he actually did read the letter, but that's not really important. FWIW, she stated that the letter had been forwarded to senior management.

 

The significant statement was: "... we do provide the option for pre-arranged dining. This is based on availability and can be requested with either our Reservations Department of Ship Services Department". "Availability" is the key word here and could mean just about anything. However, this is in agreement with what I was told by management on the ship that Ship Services could commit in writing to a certain dining arrangement during the booking process and that it would be honored on the ship.

 

I didn't ask for compensation of any sort - just the ability to pre-arrange my dining status. As a goodwill gesture, they did offer me VIP status on my next cruise (bouquet, champagne, VIP cocktail party).

 

I didn't really request or expect any more than some commitment that it IS possible to pre-arrange my dining preference and a statement of how that can be done.

[pipedreams62]

I just received a reply to my letter concerning the problems I experienced on my Jan. 5th Oosterdam cruise, when AYW dining was introduced.

 

When I booked the cruise, there was no such thing as AYW dining on that ship. When I arrived at the terminal, I discovered that I had been placed in the open seating group. My problems in trying to work with the dining room staff are documented in detail in posts 106, 110 & 111 of the sticky As You Wish Dining - What and How.

 

I'm pretty easy going and non-confrontational, but the frustration of dealing with unresponsive staff (when I could even locate/call them) about one of the only "make or break" facets of cruising for me led me to write a letter of complaint. While I eventually did get almost what I wanted through meetings with the Guest Relations Manager, it was more unpleasant to me than the week of Code Red or the storm and late boarding on embarkation day. As it turned out, the last 5 days of the cruise were pleasant and just about what I expect from HAL.

 

I had written to "the Office of" the CEO/President, since I presume that he has more important things to do than investigate typical problems. I received a letter from the Senior Advisor in the Office stating that "Mr. Kruse has reviewed your letter in detail, and has asked me to respond on his behalf". I don't know if he actually did read the letter, but that's not really important. FWIW, she stated that the letter had been forwarded to senior management.

 

The significant statement was: "... we do provide the option for pre-arranged dining. This is based on availability and can be requested with either our Reservations Department of Ship Services Department". "Availability" is the key word here and could mean just about anything. However, this is in agreement with what I was told by management on the ship that Ship Services could commit in writing to a certain dining arrangement during the booking process and that it would be honored on the ship.

 

I didn't ask for compensation of any sort - just the ability to pre-arrange my dining status. As a goodwill gesture, they did offer me VIP status on my next cruise (bouquet, champagne, VIP cocktail party).

 

I didn't really request or expect any more than some commitment that it IS possible to pre-arrange my dining preference and a statement of how that can be done.

 

I couldn't agree more. This as you wish dining is for the birds (especially when it's forced on you) I got stuck with this new fangled mess on Princess twice. There's no friendly bond formed with your waitstaff because you have a different person every night. Yes I know you can call every morning and make a reservation (just what I want to do on a relaxing vacation) or you can arrive all dressed up and sit outside with a beeper (hey I can do this at home)

 

I recently went back on the Westerdam in January with fixed late seating

ahhhhh now this is the way to dine.

 

For all of those that love AYWD and it fits their schedule let them have it,but the cruise lines forcing it on people just isn't right. I'm going on the Veendam in June and I'm #1 on the waitlist for late traditional dining. I assume I will get it,as a matter of fact I know I will,I'm not doing AWYD for 14 days.

 

AYWD dining, a decline in tuxes,sweatpants and robes in the lido,next it will be cell phones at the table next to you at dinner. Yes we're certainly heading in the full fledged "Dumbing Down" direction.

[jhannah]

So if I understand you correctly, one must get something IN WRITING from Ship Services AT THE TIME OF BOOKING to guarantee your choice of dining arrangement. Is that correct? Who obtains that ... the passenger or his/her TA?

 

I guess the word "confirmed" on the booking confirmation/invoice doesn't count.

[vbmom87]

So if I understand you correctly, one must get something IN WRITING from Ship Services AT THE TIME OF BOOKING to guarantee your choice of dining arrangement. Is that correct? Who obtains that ... the passenger or his/her TA?

 

I guess the word "confirmed" on the booking confirmation/invoice doesn't count.

 

When you book you select your dining choice just like you select a cabin. You dining choice will apear on the invoice your TA sends you. Problem is many ships aren't offering many spots for fixed dining and they fill up fast.

[jimandtoni]

Pipedreams:

"AYWD dining, a decline in tuxes,sweatpants and robes in the lido,next it will be cell phones at the table next to you at dinner. Yes we're certainly heading in the full fledged "Dumbing Down" direction."

 

I agree... when are the cruise lines going to figure out that bigger is NOT better....that more is NOT better...that many if not MOST experienced cruisers WANT to wear our TWO tuxes(yeah..I have a classic black tux AND a white dinner jacket tux!)...that FORMALITY and GENTILITY are the reasons WHY we have enjoyed cruises so much for so long??? I have been on over 50 cruises and I am dismayed by the steady decline . Although the ships have become larger and glitzier, certainly the cruise EXPERIENCE has NOT improved.

Years ago, we were on the Maasdam. The Maasdam is a smaller ship, but it is lovely and classic, and the crew were so friendly and attentive, it was almost embarrassing! I am currently booked on the Westerdam for April. We had been on the OLD Westerdam years ago, and loved that older, smaller ship as well. I am still, however, looking forward to being on the new Westerdam. At least they do not have a BOWLING ALLEY on board.

Jim

[Jade13]

So if I understand you correctly, one must get something IN WRITING from Ship Services AT THE TIME OF BOOKING to guarantee your choice of dining arrangement. Is that correct? Who obtains that ... the passenger or his/her TA?

 

I guess the word "confirmed" on the booking confirmation/invoice doesn't count.

 

I have my fixed dining time confirmed in writing from Ship Services and Coordinator of the Ships for my next two HAL cruises. We have a 2 top confirmed on one cruise but not yet on the other. I have one cruise booked through an outside TA and one direct. I would not leave this up to a TA. We book way in advance (not last minute) to get the dining that we want.

[RevNeal]

The phrase: "Mr. Kruse has reviewed your letter in detail, and has asked me to respond on his behalf" is standard form-letter boilerplate. What I suspect is that a summary of the complaint letters is provided -- a phrase or a sentence for each -- and Mr. Kruse reviews them that way. I would imagine he periodically selects a few of these summaries to read the actual letter that it comes from. Occasionally he writes a response himself, or deals with the situation directly. But, the vast majority of the letters are handled as yours was. In truth, when I write Mr. Kruse I expect the letter to be handled by a staff flunky and the response I receive to be mostly form-letter; but, most importantly, I expect that that a copy of my letter has been forwarded on to the specific people who are on-site and can deal with both the praise for various staff members AND the problems I've detailed. If that is ALL that happens, I'm happy.

 

Thanks for sharing your results. I'm sure that, for the most part, those who are in love with Open Seating and the AYWD system in general (and appear to have rose-colored glasses on regarding the problems involved with its implementation) have already discounted your report and have pointed out to you that you don't really have anything to whine about because, for 5 days of your cruise, you got what you wanted.

[dlbaqua]

I booked in early February for an end of July cruise on the Westerdam and the fixed dining wasn't even available. How far in advance are we going to have to book to even have the option?

[RevNeal]

I booked in early February for an end of July cruise on the Westerdam and the fixed dining wasn't even available. How far in advance are we going to have to book to even have the option?

 

Right now, upon review of the HAL website, it would appear to be about 7-8 months in advance to have a chance of getting on a waitlist. 9+ months seems to be what is needed to find at least one of the seating listed as "available." Some cruises seem to go from "available" to "waitlist" as early as 12 months out.

[Tricia724]

The significant statement was: "... we do provide the option for pre-arranged dining. This is based on availability and can be requested with either our Reservations Department of Ship Services Department". "Availability" is the key word here and could mean just about anything. However, this is in agreement with what I was told by management on the ship that Ship Services could commit in writing to a certain dining arrangement during the booking process and that it would be honored on the ship.

 

I'm sorry, but I think they are just blowing smoke here. I have stated this a couple of times previously, but we booked our next cruise well over 13 months ahead of time and requested 8:00 pm fixed dining. By mistake our TA put us in for early fixed dining, and the confirmation came back as waitlisted. We called her and had her change it to late seating, and it also came back as waitlisted. I do not believe that both fixed seatings were filled at that time.

 

The cruise is now 9 months away, and every cabin category is still open, and every website I check shows lots of rooms available. However, on the HAL website all dining options are marked "closed" except for open seating.

 

HAL may be dealing with this on a ship-by-ship basis or a cruise-by-cruise basis, but it is obvious to me that on our particular cruise they are simply putting everyone on a waitlist to allow themselves greater flexibility in assigning dining choices. Maybe in a way that is fairer than the people on RevNeal's cruise that had documents stating that they were confirmed for fixed dining and then were told they were assigned open seating once they boarded.

 

I agree that "availability" is the key word.....but HAL gets to determine what is available and what isn't. It seems idiotic to me that everyone has to call or write letters to Ship Services to guarantee them a particular dining option every time they make a booking.

 

If we get open seating, we will deal with it and.....who knows.....maybe we'd even like it. But it annoys me that every response from the cruiseline includes the statement that you have your choice of options when that is obviously not the case.

[fireman845]

Right now, upon review of the HAL website, it would appear to be about 7-8 months in advance to have a chance of getting on a waitlist. 9+ months seems to be what is needed to find at least one of the seating listed as "available." Some cruises seem to go from "available" to "waitlist" as early as 12 months out.

 

 

FYI -- I booked the Veendam 11 1/2 months out and was put on the waitlist...

[hammybee]

Pipedreams:

"AYWD dining, a decline in tuxes,sweatpants and robes in the lido,next it will be cell phones at the table next to you at dinner. Yes we're certainly heading in the full fledged "Dumbing Down" direction."

 

I agree... when are the cruise lines going to figure out that bigger is NOT better....that more is NOT better...that many if not MOST experienced cruisers WANT to wear our TWO tuxes(yeah..I have a classic black tux AND a white dinner jacket tux!)...that FORMALITY and GENTILITY are the reasons WHY we have enjoyed cruises so much for so long??? I have been on over 50 cruises and I am dismayed by the steady decline . Although the ships have become larger and glitzier, certainly the cruise EXPERIENCE has NOT improved/quote]

 

Do you think it more appropriate to say most passengers with a serious number of cruises under their belt probably prefer traditional formal nights and dinners? I think the problem is there are not enough similar minded passengers who prefer this to fill soon to be 14 ships, 365 days a year.

 

When Carnival agreed to acquired HAL, back in 1988, HAL was on the verge of bankruptcy and had only 4 older ships in its fleet. HAL was not able to attract a sufficient number of passengers to fill its cabins at a price that would allow it to maintain its standards /upgrade its facilities. HAL was stuggling a generation ago to fill 4 aging vessels with enough passengers who wanted a traditional cruise experience and were willing to pay a premium for it. And in the end, it always comes down to what the market will bear for a product.

 

On another thread, thanks to a poster who shared what he/she paid in 1978 for an outside cabin, it was possible to extrapolate that it now costs 80+% less for a similar cabin grade, some 30 years later. Now we know that food, labor and fuel costs have not reduced in the past 30 years so how is this possible?

 

These economies came about because of newer, larger and more efficient ships. This growth meant that the so-called premium HAL cruise line had to be marketed to the masses to fill all those cabins and that includes a lot of people who are not necessarily aware of, let alone enamored with traditional cruising.

 

The easist thing for a business to do is not change and continue doing what they have always done. Change is certainly painful for employees and for traditional consumers. Only thing certain is that if a business does not change to meet the evolving needs/wants of its consumers, it's not going to be around for the long term.

 

Think about it. Why would any cruise line change to accommodate Open Seating if there was no demand for it? Why would any cruise line trend to a more casual attire if there was no demand for it?

 

Today, HAL competes with all the other mass marketed cruise lines for the same passenger dollar and to do so, it has to deliver what 1 million passengers a year want. Given the overwhelming majority of restuarants no longer require jacket/tie says a lot about what the public wants and I suspect a lot of them do not want to be forced to dine at a time they do not want, with people they do not want to get to know.

 

The best news is that the traditional experience, fixed dining and true formal evenings, and personal service is still available on Crystal's two relatively small ships. That it's going to cost multiples of a typical HAL sail is nothing more than the price of exclusiveness.

 

No way can we benefit from paying 80% less than we did 30 years ago for a better appointed outside cabin on a typical 7 day sail and expect the same passenger base/preferences and out of cabin experience that once was. It's a whole new ball game.

[albertiger]

Hammybee makes a very good point. I've been cruising for over 20 years and welcome the vast amount of options available today. Dress up, dress down, fixed, AYWD: i like being able to tailor my day to my mood.

Everything changes and people must change too.

Adapt or perish?;)

I bought tickets online yesterday for the NYC Opera, Madame Butterfly-my first opera as an adult. While checking the suggested dress guidelines i was surprised to see that jeans are acceptable, even the Opera has had to adapt to attract an audience!:eek:

[hammybee]

 

The significant statement was: "... we do provide the option for pre-arranged dining. This is based on availability and can be requested with either our Reservations Department of Ship Services Department". "Availability" is the key word here and could mean just about anything.

 

I remember your original and reasonable posts of the boshed up implementation of AYWD on the Oosterdam, how you were told to go to X and no one was there. No excuse for this in my book and I am sorry that you or anyone had to experience it.

 

I agree with you and everyone else, " availability" is the key term.

 

Before AYWD, many passengers were being disappointed when they could not obtain their preferred dining time. Now some passengers are being disappointed when they cannot get their preferred style of dining. Only thing that seems certain is no matter what, passengers with strong preferences are risking potential disappointment unless they are willing to pay more to get what they want/ when they want it. It's a reality of life, anywhere.

 

I hope you enjoy your VIP status on your next cruise and you get what you want, when you want. Most folk actually do.

[dakrewser]

I have yet to see anyone claim that they wanted open seating dining, but were forced into traditional. If I've missed that post, please point me towards it.

 

The reality is that not everyone who wants traditional dining is getting it, therefore the only conclusion is that there aren't enough traditional dining seats!

 

Hammybee: If open dining were as popular as you claim, then there be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth of folks who can't get on the open dining list. And that just isn't happening, either here on CC or on board the ships.

"Why would any cruise line change to accommodate Open Seating if there was no demand for it?"Why would Ford market the Edsel?

"Why would any cruise line trend to a more casual attire if there was no demand for it?"

Why did Coca-Cola try "New Coke"?

 

Marketing is an art, not a science, and marketers are almost as often wrong as they are right.

[hammybee]

 

I bought tickets online yesterday for the NYC Opera, Madame Butterfly-my first opera as an adult. While checking the suggested dress guidelines i was surprised to see that jeans are acceptable, even the Opera has had to adapt to attract an audience!:eek:

 

Jeans at the Opera. Oh yeah. I saw jeans there in 2002 seated next to black tie.

 

The NYC Opera, like every other business that relies upon the general public, had to adopt to what the general public wants or they will not be around in the future.

[pipedreams62]

Pipedreams:

"AYWD dining, a decline in tuxes,sweatpants and robes in the lido,next it will be cell phones at the table next to you at dinner. Yes we're certainly heading in the full fledged "Dumbing Down" direction."

 

I agree... when are the cruise lines going to figure out that bigger is NOT better....that more is NOT better...that many if not MOST experienced cruisers WANT to wear our TWO tuxes(yeah..I have a classic black tux AND a white dinner jacket tux!)...that FORMALITY and GENTILITY are the reasons WHY we have enjoyed cruises so much for so long??? I have been on over 50 cruises and I am dismayed by the steady decline . Although the ships have become larger and glitzier, certainly the cruise EXPERIENCE has NOT improved.

Years ago, we were on the Maasdam. The Maasdam is a smaller ship, but it is lovely and classic, and the crew were so friendly and attentive, it was almost embarrassing! I am currently booked on the Westerdam for April. We had been on the OLD Westerdam years ago, and loved that older, smaller ship as well. I am still, however, looking forward to being on the new Westerdam. At least they do not have a BOWLING ALLEY on board.

Jim

 

 

Yes I know what you mean. I think the problem is people feel that they must be "entertained" every second of the day? Going on a cruise and relaxing, taking in the views,reading a book, just isn't good enough anymore. Now we must be entertained every second of the day with ice skating rinks,surfing pools,rock climbing walls,etc. I'm going on a 14 day cruise on the Veendam this summer. My entertainment is the glaciers,whales,and all the beautiful alaskan scenery,who needs rock climbing walls?

 

I just went on the Westerdam in January. The ship is beautiful and the crew is great. I;m sure you'll love the ship. I'm also hunting for a white dinner jacket.

[pipedreams62]

Pipedreams:

"AYWD dining, a decline in tuxes,sweatpants and robes in the lido,next it will be cell phones at the table next to you at dinner. Yes we're certainly heading in the full fledged "Dumbing Down" direction."

 

I agree... when are the cruise lines going to figure out that bigger is NOT better....that more is NOT better...that many if not MOST experienced cruisers WANT to wear our TWO tuxes(yeah..I have a classic black tux AND a white dinner jacket tux!)...that FORMALITY and GENTILITY are the reasons WHY we have enjoyed cruises so much for so long??? I have been on over 50 cruises and I am dismayed by the steady decline . Although the ships have become larger and glitzier, certainly the cruise EXPERIENCE has NOT improved/quote]

 

Do you think it more appropriate to say most passengers with a serious number of cruises under their belt probably prefer traditional formal nights and dinners? I think the problem is there are not enough similar minded passengers who prefer this to fill soon to be 14 ships, 365 days a year.

 

When Carnival agreed to acquired HAL, back in 1988, HAL was on the verge of bankruptcy and had only 4 older ships in its fleet. HAL was not able to attract a sufficient number of passengers to fill its cabins at a price that would allow it to maintain its standards /upgrade its facilities. HAL was stuggling a generation ago to fill 4 aging vessels with enough passengers who wanted a traditional cruise experience and were willing to pay a premium for it. And in the end, it always comes down to what the market will bear for a product.

 

On another thread, thanks to a poster who shared what he/she paid in 1978 for an outside cabin, it was possible to extrapolate that it now costs 80+% less for a similar cabin grade, some 30 years later. Now we know that food, labor and fuel costs have not reduced in the past 30 years so how is this possible?

 

These economies came about because of newer, larger and more efficient ships. This growth meant that the so-called premium HAL cruise line had to be marketed to the masses to fill all those cabins and that includes a lot of people who are not necessarily aware of, let alone enamored with traditional cruising.

 

The easist thing for a business to do is not change and continue doing what they have always done. Change is certainly painful for employees and for traditional consumers. Only thing certain is that if a business does not change to meet the evolving needs/wants of its consumers, it's not going to be around for the long term.

 

Think about it. Why would any cruise line change to accommodate Open Seating if there was no demand for it? Why would any cruise line trend to a more casual attire if there was no demand for it?

 

Today, HAL competes with all the other mass marketed cruise lines for the same passenger dollar and to do so, it has to deliver what 1 million passengers a year want. Given the overwhelming majority of restuarants no longer require jacket/tie says a lot about what the public wants and I suspect a lot of them do not want to be forced to dine at a time they do not want, with people they do not want to get to know.

 

The best news is that the traditional experience, fixed dining and true formal evenings, and personal service is still available on Crystal's two relatively small ships. That it's going to cost multiples of a typical HAL sail is nothing more than the price of exclusiveness.

 

No way can we benefit from paying 80% less than we did 30 years ago for a better appointed outside cabin on a typical 7 day sail and expect the same passenger base/preferences and out of cabin experience that once was. It's a whole new ball game.

 

 

Are you saying that all these gorgeous Holland America ships and fantastic service would "Go Under" without AYWD? I see all of the NCL commercials on TV advertising "Freestyle Cruising" and it appears they're the ones "Going Under"

[hammybee]

I have yet to see anyone claim that they wanted open seating dining, but were forced into traditional. If I've missed that post, please point me towards it.

 

The reality is that not everyone who wants traditional dining is getting it, therefore the only conclusion is that there aren't enough traditional dining seats!

 

Hammybee: If open dining were as popular as you claim, then there be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth of folks who can't get on the open dining list. And that just isn't happening, either here on CC or on board the ships.

 

"Why would any cruise line change to accommodate Open Seating if there was no demand for it?"Why would Ford market the Edsel?

 

"Why would any cruise line trend to a more casual attire if there was no demand for it?"

Why did Coca-Cola try "New Coke"?

 

Marketing is an art, not a science, and marketers are almost as often wrong as they are right.

 

RuthC posed the same question earlier this week. The search function does not work so we have to rely upon my good memory. There were many on the Mother's Day sailing of the Noordam last year who were forced into fixed seating when Open Seating was full. And some of them were very disappointed. There was a thread last week whereby a passenger was denied Open Seating even though she/he was booking more than a year in advance. That cruise subsequently became chartered so dining was the least of the problem. So yeah, it happens.

 

There are also a growing number of posts from those who did not get what they wanted and ended up enjoying Open Seating. And some of them really surprised me. Open seating does not kill. :eek:

 

I agree with you that not everyone who wants traditional seating is getting what they want. Not everyone who wanted a specific fixed dining time, got what they wanted before AYWD was available. When more people want the same thing at the same time, some of them are going to be disappointed.

 

Those with the most consistent and most vocal preference for the traditional dining experience seem to be getting what they want, when they want it. And these tend to be the same people with a substantial number of future days booked with HAL. Only way a business hears its customers is when they leave and there are an insufficent number of new customers to replace them. Thus far, it appears that HAL ships continue to sail full.

 

Like you, I like my formal nights. I am grateful for the opportunity to dine when I want, especially if the time I want in fixed seating is full.

[Golfette]

The significant statement was: "... we do provide the option for pre-arranged dining. This is based on availability and can be requested with either our Reservations Department of Ship Services Department". "Availability" is the key word here and could mean just about anything. However, this is in agreement with what I was told by management on the ship that Ship Services could commit in writing to a certain dining arrangement during the booking process and that it would be honored on the ship.(Italics and underlining are mine).

 

I didn't really request or expect any more than some commitment that it IS possible to pre-arrange my dining preference and a statement of how that can be done.

 

I recall reading several posts recently that cruisers who had confirmed Traditional on their documentation were changed against their wishes to Open Dining upon their embarcation.

 

I would call that "commiting in writing to a certain dining arrangement during the booking process and that it would be honored on the ship..." wouldn't you:confused: ?

 

So the letter means nothing except as to this particular situation because the OP took the time & trouble to document his problem???:confused:

[twinkletoes4445]

We have "confirmed" fixed seating (at least that's what it says on the papers our TA gave us). If we get to the ship and find that we've been moved to AYWD, they better be able to move us back to fixed. I can also guarantee that will probably be our last cruise, at least with HAL, or anyone who does this open seating business.

 

We may be in the minority, and it may be that this is what's to come for the future...but we want no part of it. We prefer to sit with the same people, the same time each night, and have the same wait staff. And it sounds like you can achieve this to a certain degree with the AYWD by making a reservation, which seems silly to me since it's AYWD. Kind of defeats the purpose.

 

But I am not getting my knickers in a knot because there are a lot of other vacation options out there. It's not like we cruise all the time. We enjoyed a variety of vacation options.

[hammybee]

 

 

Are you saying that all these gorgeous Holland America ships and fantastic service would "Go Under" without AYWD? I see all of the NCL commercials on TV advertising "Freestyle Cruising" and it appears they're the ones "Going Under"

 

Most excellent point, Pipedreams.

 

Fixed seating is a highly efficient method of mass feeding. Everyone does what is expected of them, when it's expected.

 

Passengers have been whining about early being too early and late being too late, forever. Passenger preference has indeed changed over the years. Passengers increasingly shun the large tables of strangers in favor of more intimite dining because too many of them have been stuck with tablemates from hell-o and/or they prefer dinner to be a social downtime. Mass feeding does not work well unless the masses embrace large tables and regimented dining times.

 

It used to be that only some of the higher end cruise lines offered open seating. NCL came along and articulated the problem/ solution before and better than anyone else within the mass market. It made a lot of people stop and think about why they were subjecting themselves to regimentation. "Freestyle dining" is effective marketing. The NCL brand evolved around the concept of "freestyle" and they became the cruise line to beat.

 

Princess was the first to respond and they created their version of Open Seating. HAL followed and it is probably the single greatest marketing attempt to shake the perception that it is a floating retirement home. RCL is experimenting with the concept on some of their ships. I don't think it possible to stop this train.

[mybagsarepacked]

I booked in early February for an end of July cruise on the Westerdam and the fixed dining wasn't even available. How far in advance are we going to have to book to even have the option?

 

I booked my upcoming Zuiderdam cruise over a year ago and couldn't get fixed dining.

 

I'm not the only one. Several posters have stated they booked months and months, if not years in advance, and still can't get confirmed dinner times.

 

It stinks, I tell you.

[mybagsarepacked]

We have "confirmed" fixed seating (at least that's what it says on the papers our TA gave us). If we get to the ship and find that we've been moved to AYWD, they better be able to move us back to fixed. I can also guarantee that will probably be our last cruise, at least with HAL, or anyone who does this open seating business.

 

We may be in the minority, and it may be that this is what's to come for the future...but we want no part of it. We prefer to sit with the same people, the same time each night, and have the same wait staff. And it sounds like you can achieve this to a certain degree with the AYWD by making a reservation, which seems silly to me since it's AYWD. Kind of defeats the purpose.

 

But I am not getting my knickers in a knot because there are a lot of other vacation options out there. It's not like we cruise all the time. We enjoyed a variety of vacation options.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Calling it As You Wish is assinine. I am trying to keep an open mind, but having to call every day for a reservation is one bone of contention with me as well.

 

What would they do if every person who had this AYWD called room service three nights in a row and had dinner served in their cabins at whatever time they chose?

 

Calling room service is also a form of "As you Wish Dining". So they need to get their nomenclature correct.

[albertiger]

After thinking about it i realized that my preference varies depending on whether im cruising solo or with family or friends. When alone, i like the company of a table full of companions, but when cruising with others i enjoy the freedom of "going with the flow". I booked Eurodam last month for Dec 6 and got gtd early fixed dining. I checked availability today and all that is left is AYWD.