New Cruise Award Protocol

[Iamboatman]

I'm also not sure where the "$3,000 difference" comes from. A 14 day loyalty reward (free cruise) is worth about a minimum of $14,000.

 

It is a per person benefit, so at $7,000 per person. So with your example, comes to $50 per day per person.

 

Generally, though obviously not in your case, if someone can cruise 22+ days at a time and 50+ days a year, that $50 per day being reduced to $25 per day (since the benefit is being reduced, not eliminated) is not going to be a huge factor in deciding what cruise to take.

 

Generally, and again obviously not in your case, differences on the luxury lines are considered significant when making choices when it reaches the $75-100 per day range.

[Seabourn-nail]

It is a per person benefit, so at $7,000 per person. So with your example, comes to $50 per day per person.

 

Generally, though obviously not in your case, if someone can cruise 22+ days at a time and 50+ days a year, that $50 per day being reduced to $25 per day (since the benefit is being reduced, not eliminated) is not going to be a huge factor in deciding what cruise to take.

 

Generally, and again obviously not in your case, differences on the luxury lines are considered significant when making choices when it reaches the $75-100 per day range.

 

Eric,

I have never looked at a per day amount of money and will not do that in the future. It was just the idea of "saving" your two week free cruise that counted. OK, that will now take you nearly twice as long if you're lucky enough to have the money and more importantly, the time left!

Marja

[Iamboatman]

Hi Marja!

 

I know it is a little bit like being told that present will be arriving and then it is delayed...hopefully not too long, but possibly so.:(

 

I do have clients taking a bit of a more, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach so they are juggling their cruising schedule so that they get 14 rather than 7 days. That is not possible for many, but may be worth looking at.

 

One thing is for certain as to you, especially: Thankfully you have such a problem to deal with.:)

[Kissing Seahorses]

I'm sure this won't be at all appreciated here but I just took another look at Crystal's reward program and to say that Seabourn has the most generous reward program in the business is a gross understatement (even at the new levels). Crystal doesn't offer a free cruise (7 days, mind you) till 30 CRUISES! that's right, not days, cruises. If you wanted to do that entirely with 7 day trips it would take you a very long time as I looked quickly at 2009 itineraries and the number of 7 day cruises combined on both ships was only 7 total. So, even using 7 day cruises exclusively, this means the Crystal passenger is at 210 days minimum before a free cruise. Granted, Crystal rewards with on-board credits and upgrades a number of times prior to 30 cruises. But you folks do have it pretty good....still.

[BLONDE MOMENTS]

Hi Lorraine

 

I haven't had the letter yet but I would expect that if your friends have earned their 140 days by the end of 2009, they will have two years to enjoy the 14 day complimentary cruise. It is only if you haven't reached 140 by then, that you will have to meet the new targets.

 

Unfortunately, this is incorrect - guests must have sailed 140 days and taken the complimentary voyage by 31 December 2009. Unused sail days can be carried over, but the new rules will then apply. Cruises on Seabourn Odyssey count towards your total sail days. You cannot redeem a complimentary cruise on the Odyssey until 24 April 2010.

[Host Dan]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that if you sail on the new ship the first year, NONE of those days count towards the complimentary cruise! I just checked the website.

 

Host Dan

[lord of the seas]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that if you sail on the new ship the first year, NONE of those days count towards the complimentary cruise! I just checked the website.

 

Host Dan

 

Eric,Can you please confirm Dans post is correct. As you know I am on the Odyssey for 28 Days in 2009 and it would be a shame if the days did not count.:eek: :eek:

[seapenarth]

Eric,Can you please confirm Dans post is correct. As you know I am on the Odyssey for 28 Days in 2009 and it would be a shame if the days did not count.:eek: :eek:

 

Have you seen seapenarth`s thoughts on new website. Many problems and I hope Iamboatman has not been scared off these mess ups, and will provide adequate answers:o :)

[Host Dan]

OK, I've re-read the website and am questioning my own post. I am going to call Seabourn and see what they say about all this... I'll let you know what they tell me..

 

Host Dan

[lord of the seas]

OK, I've re-read the website and am questioning my own post. I am going to call Seabourn and see what they say about all this... I'll let you know what they tell me..

 

Host Dan

 

Come on Eric,it's a race against Dan.:)

 

First to post gets a drink from me (on the ship ofcourse)

 

CORRECT ANSWERS ONLY

[norm2002]

Dan, looks like the website is ambiguous again.As you noticed, it says "This complimentary cruise benefit is not applicable for Seabourn Odyssey during the 12 months of her maiden year." However, this was the wording they used before they started saying specifically that the trigger date was April 24 2010. I wonder whether they just forgot to remove this sentence. I can't see any sensible reason why days should not be awarded for sailing on the Odyssey. More likely a mistake on the website. Not very confidence-building, though.

 

Edit: Dan, just seen you've reposted. I think your second thoughts may be the better ones. Hope so.

[lord of the seas]

Dan, looks like the website is ambiguous again.As you noticed, it says "This complimentary cruise benefit is not applicable for Seabourn Odyssey during the 12 months of her maiden year." However, this was the wording they used before they started saying specifically that the trigger date was April 24 2010. I wonder whether they just forgot to remove this sentence. I can't see any sensible reason why days should not be awarded for sailing on the Odyssey. More likely a mistake on the website. Not very confidence-building, though.

 

Norm,I think they mean that you can't take the free cruise on board The Odyssey in the first year.

[norm2002]

That's what I mean. Originally they used the sentence I quoted as a footnote but now it specifically mentions April 24 in another sentence. I think the footnote should have been removed as redundant.

[Iamboatman]

They MOST DEFINITELY COUNT.

 

No question. No way to read it another way.

 

THEY COUNT.

 

The caveat only relates to taking a free cruise; not earning a free cruise. It is very clear.

 

Said another way: THEY COUNT.

[Iamboatman]

Come on Eric,it's a race against Dan.:)

 

First to post gets a drink from me (on the ship ofcourse)

 

CORRECT ANSWERS ONLY

 

Sorry for the delay. I was busy.;) And, of course, I will let you buy me a drink. Can I order off the special list??:eek:

[4kitties]

I think you missed my point. Yes the cost per day of that theoretical 14 day cruise is $607 per day, but you are earning it over 140 days, or $60 per day.

 

If the present value becomes $30 per day (since the benefit is practically speaking cut in half), we are effectively losing $30 a day in benefits (if, that is, you reach 140 days AND don't sail until after December 2009). The furor of some over $30 a day (which, in reality for most cruises is probably $20 a day since I took an expensive one as an example) IMO needs to be kept in perspective and considered as a lesser evil to, say, Silversea's across the board fare increases.

 

Does that make more sense or did I explain it better?

 

We earn it over 140 days, but it is worth 0 until day 140 since Seabourn can (as we have seen) change/cut back award, and since we cannot redeem it prorata (i.e., if I have sailed 100 days, I cannot take 100/140 of the award cruise).

 

So, after day 140, we used to get a 14 day free cruise (worth about 600 or so per day). Now we get a 7 day cruise (worth about 600 or so per day).

 

That free cruise means more, to me, than a price increase of $30-$60/day in the interim. I always assumed prices would go up over time - they do for everything. I just always looked forward to that free 14 day cruise!

 

So, yes, I see your point. I hope you see mine.

[4kitties]

It is a per person benefit, so at $7,000 per person. So with your example, comes to $50 per day per person.

 

Generally, though obviously not in your case, if someone can cruise 22+ days at a time and 50+ days a year, that $50 per day being reduced to $25 per day (since the benefit is being reduced, not eliminated) is not going to be a huge factor in deciding what cruise to take.

 

Generally, and again obviously not in your case, differences on the luxury lines are considered significant when making choices when it reaches the $75-100 per day range.

 

I have never focused on the cost per day, and as I said in my immediately preceding post, I always assumed prices would rise over time. The prospect of a 14 day free cruise, however, was quite compelling. The prospect of a 7 day free cruise is, well, about 1/2 as compelling.:D

 

Like I said, our next three bookings with Seabourn are remaining unchanged. The one after that is being reconsidered. Why? For (per your analysis) $50/day? No, that is not how we think about it (see immediately preceding post). It was because that Seabourn cruise would have put us over the 140 day mark and given us a 14 day free cruise. That was a very nice plus. What are we comparing? Similar itineraries on luxury lines that have slightly better itineraries.

 

As many have said, we will not boycott Seabourn over this change -that would be silly. But it will be one of the many factors we consider. The "Golden Handcuffs" are off.

[norm2002]

No question. No way to read it another way. ... It is very clear.

 

The one thing it is not is clear.

 

"This complimentary cruise benefit is not applicable for Seabourn Odyssey during the 12 months of her maiden year."

 

Because I became aware of the 12 month policy, I understood what this meant. But now that the website also says "Awards may not be redeemed aboard Seabourn Odyssey until April 24, 2010" someone who sees this for the first time will assume the 12 month wording must have some other meaning. Hence, Host Dan's concern. Obviously, a mistake was made in not removing the footnote.

 

Similarly, as I have said before, "redeem", in my opinion, does not mean "sail". I am sure now that it was meant to mean "sail" but if you asked me as a UK lawyer at what point a complimentary cruise award was redeemed, I would say it was when you receive the booking confirmation for the complimentary cruise because at that point you no longer have the ability to redeem it elsewhere. It is the same with my BA Airmiles. I have used them for my flight to the US for my cruise in December. I cannot now use them on another flight. I have "redeemed" them. Fortunately, BA's terms and conditions do provide for refunds etc but that does not affect the position that they have been redeemed.

 

All this only confirms what I have previously advised clients. When you change a policy, you should have the wording reviewed by someone who was not involved in formulating the policy and who has not had it explained to him first. Otherwise, there is a tendency to see what you expect to see. It is the same as when you type a letter and re-read it, it is easy to miss a mistake because your brains sees what you intended to say, rather than what it actually says.

 

I also feel I have to return to the new policy itself. I do think it is rather hard on people who have sailed 100 days. I remember that when I reached 100 days, I felt I could see the 140 "winning post" within view. But, as a working person, there is no way I could sail another 54 days by January 13 2010. Seabourn's staff, including in Miami, have regularly been generous and helpful to individual "hardships" and I would hope they will maintain that attitude and apply the change in policy with a certain flexibility where needed.

 

I am now, as usual, going to proof-read this post before submitting it and hope I spot my mistakes. ;)

[norm2002]

By the way, I have still not received this famous (infamous?) letter, so cannot comment on what it says.

 

Also, I fully understand, and agree, the "golden handcuffs" point. I would look at 140 days as a possible target - 250, I wouldn't bother, that's 18 14 day cruises! I will not willingly choose another cruise line because of Seabourn's high standards but the current itineraries leave a lot of gaps and I very much hope these will be addressed when the new ships are online. It will, however, be very important that these standards do not slip as part of the cost-cutting exercises.

[Prunella]

The one thing it is not is clear.

 

"This complimentary cruise benefit is not applicable for Seabourn Odyssey during the 12 months of her maiden year."

 

Because I became aware of the 12 month policy, I understood what this meant. But now that the website also says "Awards may not be redeemed aboard Seabourn Odyssey until April 24, 2010" someone who sees this for the first time will assume the 12 month wording must have some other meaning. Hence, Host Dan's concern. Obviously, a mistake was made in not removing the footnote.

 

Similarly, as I have said before, "redeem", in my opinion, does not mean "sail". I am sure now that it was meant to mean "sail" but if you asked me as a UK lawyer at what point a complimentary cruise award was redeemed, I would say it was when you receive the booking confirmation for the complimentary cruise because at that point you no longer have the ability to redeem it elsewhere. It is the same with my BA Airmiles. I have used them for my flight to the US for my cruise in December. I cannot now use them on another flight. I have "redeemed" them. Fortunately, BA's terms and conditions do provide for refunds etc but that does not affect the position that they have been redeemed.

 

All this only confirms what I have previously advised clients. When you change a policy, you should have the wording reviewed by someone who was not involved in formulating the policy and who has not had it explained to him first. Otherwise, there is a tendency to see what you expect to see. It is the same as when you type a letter and re-read it, it is easy to miss a mistake because your brains sees what you intended to say, rather than what it actually says.

 

I also feel I have to return to the new policy itself. I do think it is rather hard on people who have sailed 100 days. I remember that when I reached 100 days, I felt I could see the 140 "winning post" within view. But, as a working person, there is no way I could sail another 54 days by January 13 2010. Seabourn's staff, including in Miami, have regularly been generous and helpful to individual "hardships" and I would hope they will maintain that attitude and apply the change in policy with a certain flexibility where needed.

 

I am now, as usual, going to proof-read this post before submitting it and hope I spot my mistakes. ;)

Very good letter Norm, hope someone at Seabourn reads it and takes note.

 

We have decided not to break our necks getting to our 140 days by next year if we cannot "redeem" our award cruise by the end of 2009. But we are about to "redeem" our BA miles for our Legend crossing next year, despite having said we would never fly BA again after they lost our luggage before our Legend crossing this year!

[norm2002]

we are about to "redeem" our BA miles for our Legend crossing next year, despite having said we would never fly BA again after they lost our luggage before our Legend crossing this year!

 

Oh dear! Do I just need to say the words Terminal 5!

[Seabourn-nail]

All very well said Norm! As far as I could see just one little mistake in your big email........hi, hi!

Why do I have this idea that Seabourn watches carefully what you write? To me your opinion also counts a lot, we usually see eye to eye. Is that a good saying? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Marja

[norm2002]

Marja, as usual your use of English is impeccable.

 

I very much doubt that Seabourn watches my musings any more than anyone else's although I do try to use common sense and temperate language.

 

[seapenarth]

By the way, I have still not received this famous (infamous?) letter, so cannot comment on what it says.

 

Also, I fully understand, and agree, the "golden handcuffs" point. I would look at 140 days as a possible target - 250, I wouldn't bother, that's 18 14 day cruises! I will not willingly choose another cruise line because of Seabourn's high standards but the current itineraries leave a lot of gaps and I very much hope these will be addressed when the new ships are online. It will, however, be very important that these standards do not slip as part of the cost-cutting exercise

Got ours today Norm. 16 days after it burst on to CC :)

[Host Dan]

I have received electronic documentation regarding their official position regarding Seabourn's new reward policy, effective Jan 2010. It touches on most all questions many of us have had. Also the footnote on the website has been removed for clarification.

 

The way the program works today:

 

Club members accumulate 140 days on board and earn an award of a free cruise up to 14 days. They redeem ( cash in, if you will) that award and their "award days" account clears and starts over at zero and they begin accumulating days toward another award. The total number of days sailed doesn't change but the award account does. In nearly fifteen years with Seabourn I have never heard of, or from, anyone who didn't understand that. This system remains unchanged between now and the end of 2009.

 

Starting January 1st, 2010, the "rate of exchange" for accumulated days at sea changes. 140 days will then earn 7 days free. 250 accumulated days will earn a free cruise of up to 14 day. Any award voyage embarked after January 1st will be redeemed at this rate of exchange, regardless of when it is booked. The key is embarked, not booked.

 

Club members will not lose any accumulated days in their account, Once they accumulate 140 days after January 1st, 2010 they can:

Redeem them for a free seven day cruise. (we have lots of great seven days cruises) or

Redeem their 140 days for partial payment on a cruise longer than seven days, or

Continue to accumulate days up to 250, and then redeem for a free cruise up to 14 days.

 

When they book a free cruise award, their awards-earned account is reset to zero and they begin accumulating days toward their next earned award. The mechanics don't change in 2010, only the exchange rate changes.

 

Again, to be clear--days sailed on Seabourn Odyssey are added to the awards account just as on any of the yachts. Awards may not be redeemed for Odyssey voyages until after April 24, 2010 when the World Cruise ends. After that , free award cruises can be booked on Odyssey, too.

 

I hope this helps clarify the transition. This is the same information that was sent to Club members, but with different wording in some cases.

 

 

Host Dan