Smoking Policy from a Brits point of view!

[FL_Cruiser64]

It seems only smokers post that

 

Nope, I've seen non smokers post the same.

 

I only speak for myself when I say that I wish they would ban smoking onboard cruise ships. I don't care what a person does in their own home or car as that doesn't affect me, but smoking in public can and does affect me.

That is debatable. If you believe studies which has been done with false data and has been sponsored by a company who came out with the nicotine patch and faith based lobbiest and politicians then you are correct.

 

But with every study there is an opposing study. I believe neither. Not even the one which favors my opinion on second hand smoke. Second hand smoke requires a study in which you put several groups of people into an unchanging environment (some are non smokers living with smokers , some are non smokers living amongst themselves) doing the same type of work and eat the same food over at least a decade.

 

The studies you see are based on the undiluted pure ingredients in tobacco disregarding lifestyle changes, environmental changes and the delusion of air and the burn effect.

 

The only healthy people at risk with second hand smoke are those (or were those) who worked 8 hours a day in a smoking environment with bad air circulation (i.e. flight attendants). These people suffered and of course it is unhealthy for us non smokers.

 

The occasional whiff at second smoke will not impact you at all.

 

Perhaps studies show that people with one bad habit (smoking) are more likely to have multiple bad habits (gambling excessively).

 

a) I smoke

b) I gamble on cruises but otherwise I don't. It is not a bad habit, it is fun entertainment. I interact more with people then I spend money. Interacting with people is priceless.

c) I drink moderate alcohol unless I am on a cruise where I raise my drinking a little.

 

So what you call bad habits I do occasionally and I leave a wonderful life.

 

As far as not going in the smoking areas.. Why should I be limited to where I can go on the ship?

 

If you do not limit yourself then I do not feel sorry for you at all. If you feel that a whiff of second hand smoke is going to kill you then you are reckless with your health. But I will explain this a little further down.

The "non smoking" area in the casino is a joke. I can't even walk through there without having to hold my breath.

That does not explain non smokers who gamble in smoking zones rather than in non smoking zones.

 

*****In General*****

 

What irks me with statements like 'why should I limit myself' (and most non smokers do that):

 

You have a choice of cruising on a non smoking cruise line or a cruise line with more restrictions. But you choose to cruise on RCI and bitch and moan.

 

I love RCI as much, probably more, than anybody but if RCI would go totally non smoking and I haven't quit smoking by then I would look for another line which fits my needs.

 

And that's exactly what it is: find a cruise line which fits your needs. Would I be happy? No. But I wouldn't be sitting here and whining and complaining.

 

A lot of non smokers purposely engage smokers in one way or another - just to bitch and moan. On cruises non smokers purposely walk through the smoking areas on deck just to be able to make the little cough cough noises or roll their eyes.

 

On the Sovereign there were smoking and non smoking tables, smoking and non smoking slots. Yet, non smokers still flooded the smoker section. Why?

 

I tell you why because there are a couple of reasons:

 

a) Society loves misery. There is nothing ever good enough, it always has to be better. If there is nothing to complain about we find something even if it is invalid or we have to go out of our way. Smokers are a perfect target. You couldn't go out of your way and go on the other side of the ship knowing that you are now going through a smoking area. Why? Because you want to. Because it would just be to perfect to walk to the WJ and say what a wonderful cruise. No, you want to bitch. So you go through the smoking zone so you have something to bitch about on your way to the WJ.

 

b) People need excuses for all their illnesses and their little boo-boos which pours billions of dollars into the pharmaceutical industry. It couldn't be your own lifestyle or other toxins in air and water and of course food items. Because if you would accept that then you have to make a lifestyle change and THAT could not happen.

 

I am so LMAO when I hear "I buy bottled water". Just like McDonalds burgers calling their chicken nuggets chicken water companies can call their water natural as long as the "natural" water is not going under a certain percentage. The rest: tab water and chemicals and artificial flavoring. All chemicals.

 

How many of you healthy non smokers are using over the counter Vitamin pills? All chemicals. Its easier to suck one of those down instead of eating an apple, an orange or a banana (while even those have chemicals it is at a much lesser rate).

 

Drive-Thru at McDonalds: you rather sit there for 30 minutes pumping fumes into the air and wasting gas with your 15mpg SUV as a single occupied vehicle to buy a fatty burger (with a diet coke please) who can call its burgers beef just because they meet the percentage thresh hold.

 

It actually would be too hard to

a) park your car and shut the engine off for 30 minutes because if you want to clog your arteries and kill yourself with the fast food crap DO NOT KILL ME!

 

b) would also be to hard to buy a nice sandwich from a deli

 

The question of course is: can so many people be wrong about second hand smoke?

They sure can. It is called 'marketing and advertising' to the masses. People are vulnerable, easy targets. If you give them something which would make their lives look better or the promise of a better life they buy into anything without questioning it. You have many examples throughout history in politics where this 'mass advertising' was bought by the masses without questioning.

 

I am an extremely courteous smoker who even asked at a smoking table in the casino if anybody minds. And even if everybody says no I still blow my smoke away from the table and do not hold my cigarette over the table.

 

I do that because I respect other people and their needs. I go out of my way to make life as a community a better life. Most can not even go out of their way to make their own life a better way.

 

It has to be bitching and moaning and all the misery in the world has to be put onto others without questioning: hey, maybe I can do something too to make my life or the lives of others better.

 

A good start would be to respect the current smoking areas on a cruise ship. You know where they are, avoid them. If a whiff of smoke bothers you on a balcony get an inside, OV or change cruise lines (i.e. Celebrity). You have that option.

 

Non smokers want to make a stand: they can not even do that at the very few opportunities they have. And why? It is much easier to bitch and moan to make their own problems less significant, to validate their own habits and life style, and blame all bad things somewhere else.

 

And I am out of this thread.

 

:D

[Clarea]

One more thing.. The reason that these threads get closed is because people don't remain civil towards each other. If we would all take a deep breath and just have a clean and educational debate, then we would all be the better for it.

You are correct, but this thread might be going for the record in longevity for a smoking thread. Even though I disagree with Allie, there's no reason not to be civil. I've found the informational links that posters have provided to be very interesting.

[HurricaneSally]

Nope, I've seen non smokers post the same.

 

 

That is debatable. If you believe studies which has been done with false data and has been sponsored by a company who came out with the nicotine patch and faith based lobbiest and politicians then you are correct.

 

But with every study there is an opposing study. I believe neither. Not even the one which favors my opinion on second hand smoke. Second hand smoke requires a study in which you put several groups of people into an unchanging environment (some are non smokers living with smokers , some are non smokers living amongst themselves) doing the same type of work and eat the same food over at least a decade.

 

The studies you see are based on the undiluted pure ingredients in tobacco disregarding lifestyle changes, environmental changes and the delusion of air and the burn effect.

 

The only healthy people at risk with second hand smoke are those (or were those) who worked 8 hours a day in a smoking environment with bad air circulation (i.e. flight attendants). These people suffered and of course it is unhealthy for us non smokers.

 

The occasional whiff at second smoke will not impact you at all.

 

 

 

a) I smoke

b) I gamble on cruises but otherwise I don't. It is not a bad habit, it is fun entertainment. I interact more with people then I spend money. Interacting with people is priceless.

c) I drink moderate alcohol unless I am on a cruise where I raise my drinking a little.

 

So what you call bad habits I do occasionally and I leave a wonderful life.

 

 

 

If you do not limit yourself then I do not feel sorry for you at all. If you feel that a whiff of second hand smoke is going to kill you then you are reckless with your health. But I will explain this a little further down.

 

That does not explain non smokers who gamble in smoking zones rather than in non smoking zones.

 

*****In General*****

 

What irks me with statements like 'why should I limit myself' (and most non smokers do that):

 

You have a choice of cruising on a non smoking cruise line or a cruise line with more restrictions. But you choose to cruise on RCI and bitch and moan.

 

I love RCI as much, probably more, than anybody but if RCI would go totally non smoking and I haven't quit smoking by then I would look for another line which fits my needs.

 

And that's exactly what it is: find a cruise line which fits your needs. Would I be happy? No. But I wouldn't be sitting here and whining and complaining.

 

A lot of non smokers purposely engage smokers in one way or another - just to bitch and moan. On cruises non smokers purposely walk through the smoking areas on deck just to be able to make the little cough cough noises or roll their eyes.

 

On the Sovereign there were smoking and non smoking tables, smoking and non smoking slots. Yet, non smokers still flooded the smoker section. Why?

 

I tell you why because there are a couple of reasons:

 

a) Society loves misery. There is nothing ever good enough, it always has to be better. If there is nothing to complain about we find something even if it is invalid or we have to go out of our way. Smokers are a perfect target. You couldn't go out of your way and go on the other side of the ship knowing that you are now going through a smoking area. Why? Because you want to. Because it would just be to perfect to walk to the WJ and say what a wonderful cruise. No, you want to bitch. So you go through the smoking zone so you have something to bitch about on your way to the WJ.

 

b) People need excuses for all their illnesses and their little boo-boos which pours billions of dollars into the pharmaceutical industry. It couldn't be your own lifestyle or other toxins in air and water and of course food items. Because if you would accept that then you have to make a lifestyle change and THAT could not happen.

 

I am so LMAO when I hear "I buy bottled water". Just like McDonalds burgers calling their chicken nuggets chicken water companies can call their water natural as long as the "natural" water is not going under a certain percentage. The rest: tab water and chemicals and artificial flavoring. All chemicals.

 

How many of you healthy non smokers are using over the counter Vitamin pills? All chemicals. Its easier to suck one of those down instead of eating an apple, an orange or a banana (while even those have chemicals it is at a much lesser rate).

 

Drive-Thru at McDonalds: you rather sit there for 30 minutes pumping fumes into the air and wasting gas with your 15mpg SUV as a single occupied vehicle to buy a fatty burger (with a diet coke please) who can call its burgers beef just because they meet the percentage thresh hold.

 

It actually would be too hard to

a) park your car and shut the engine off for 30 minutes because if you want to clog your arteries and kill yourself with the fast food crap DO NOT KILL ME!

 

b) would also be to hard to buy a nice sandwich from a deli

 

The question of course is: can so many people be wrong about second hand smoke?

They sure can. It is called 'marketing and advertising' to the masses. People are vulnerable, easy targets. If you give them something which would make their lives look better or the promise of a better life they buy into anything without questioning it. You have many examples throughout history in politics where this 'mass advertising' was bought by the masses without questioning.

 

I am an extremely courteous smoker who even asked at a smoking table in the casino if anybody minds. And even if everybody says no I still blow my smoke away from the table and do not hold my cigarette over the table.

 

I do that because I respect other people and their needs. I go out of my way to make life as a community a better life. Most can not even go out of their way to make their own life a better way.

 

It has to be bitching and moaning and all the misery in the world has to be put onto others without questioning: hey, maybe I can do something too to make my life or the lives of others better.

 

A good start would be to respect the current smoking areas on a cruise ship. You know where they are, avoid them. If a whiff of smoke bothers you on a balcony get an inside, OV or change cruise lines (i.e. Celebrity). You have that option.

 

Non smokers want to make a stand: they can not even do that at the very few opportunities they have. And why? It is much easier to bitch and moan to make their own problems less significant, to validate their own habits and life style, and blame all bad things somewhere else.

 

And I am out of this thread.

 

:D

 

 

Excellent post and thank you for taking the time to write what we smokers are thinking.

[cruisinMike]

Excellent post and thank you for taking the time to write what we smokers are thinking.

 

Actually, I think it was about 100 threads and some 2000 posts ago that this same thought was shared.

[FL_Cruiser64]

To bad I didn't see these two posts before my post. One more input:

 

So what you are saying is that smoking make you flush your money down the urinal gambling while non-smokers spend their money on healthy active shore excursions?

 

a) I don't flush my money down the toilet. I have a limit I don't exceed which is part of my cruising experience.

 

b) we still do healthy excursions if we feel like it

 

But it is not about if I flush my money down the toilet or not or if I in general live a healthy or unhealthy life. You have no right to make that determination. It is about non smokers complaining about smoking in the casino yet when the casino is smoke free they won't go their or if a casino has a smoke free area that non smokers still gamble in the smoking section. That is the issue with making (or not making) a stand on a cruise ship - nothing else.

 

So I think I have this figured out.

Only smokers know what is really going on.

Only smokers are good for business.

The cruise lines would go out of business without smokers.

Anyone who says smoking is bad for your health does not know what they are talking about.

Smokers are great, they understand what's really going on.

Non-smokers are evil, they only want to stomp on peoples rights.

Do I have it about right?

Always remember drug addicts, legal or not, will say anything to justify their habit.

 

So, you are now walking away from arguments and post some myths which nobody ever has said?

 

So I think I have this figured out.

Only smokers know what is really going on.

Who said that? We are defending our opinion just like the non smokers? Would you like to take away our right of expressing our opinion?

 

Only smokers are good for business.

Smokers are better for certain business than others as well as non smokers are.

The cruise lines would go out of business without smokers.

 

I doubt that a cruise line would go out of business. If their demographics are close to 100% non smokers I really doubt that. RCI is a mass market cruise line with big ships to fill. They could not afford to scramble to fill 25% to 50% of staterooms with non smokers. Bottomline is that you can fill ships with non smokers. The Carnival Paradise was sailing full but for some reason onboard revenue was dramatically down and to fill the ship it had to be heavily discounted. Some argue that the ship sailed the same itinerary over and over again and it lost its attraction but most ships do that and they still fill them to the top and make money. If the Paradise experience would have been a success in any way shape or form even in the beginning Carnival would have continued that.

 

Anyone who says smoking is bad for your health does not know what they are talking about.

Who said that? Smoking is bad. I am a smoker and I admit to it. As healthy as I am now it will catch up with me one day. The question is what will kill me faster and with less agony? A large percentage of smokers who quit gain weight very fast and a large percentage has trouble keeping the pounds off. I see that all around me. With gaining weight come other health problems.

 

At issue is not smoking or smokers but rather "is the occasional whiff of second hand smoke so dangerous to you and other non smokers that you have become radical and fanatical about it. (the you is not directed at you personally. I used it in general terms.)

 

Smokers are great, they understand what's really going on.

 

I am a smoker and I am not great. But thank you anyways. I am as flawed as the next person but I do know some of my flaws and recognize them and I am willing to change. A lot of people do not know their flaws or won't admit to them.

 

As I said in a previous post that I ask every single time I want to smoke a cigarette at the table if anybody minds. Even if nobody minds I still do everything possible to keep the smoke away. Smoking is a flaw, I recognize that and I act accordingly. I just don't want to hear the bitching and moaning if I do something I am legally allowed to do. In that case I say: you play by the rules. (you in general terms again)

 

Non-smokers are evil, they only want to stomp on peoples rights.

Non smokers are NOT evil. I have many friends who are non smokers. We have an arrangement when it comes to us smokers to make life for everybody liveable. The only evils are smokers and non smokers who are radical and fanatical about the issue and are not willing to compromise.

 

Do I have it about right?

 

Not really. It was flawed. LOL. :D;)

 

Always remember drug addicts, legal or not, will say anything to justify their habit.

 

I can't speak for others but I don't justify my habit of smoking. I just argue the whiff of second hand smoke. I even admit that a non smoker working and living in a smoking environment is at as much danger as a smoker. But I definitely argue the whiff of occasional smoke or walking through a smoking environment that this is in any way shape or form dangerous to you.

 

Cheers and happy sailings. ;)

 

Now I need a smoke.;)

[happyshelly]

All i can say after reading all 13 pages of this thread is WOW!!!!!The smoking threads are the worst possible subject that brings out the worst in some posters.

The reason threads like this get pulled is because people cannot remain civil and courteous to each other. It gets down to name calling and being sarcastic to the point of being rude and offensive.

I wonder if some of the posters actually met on the ship in each others designated area if you would recognize them by the tone of the conversations taking place. Would each party take out statistics stating their stance on the subject of SHS? I dont think so. As smokers a such a small percentage of people anymore it really does not justify some of the remarks made by some fo the non smokers. But on the other hand some of the comments that smokers make really are on the defensive side of nature. Smokers cannot help but get defensive when someone treats them like they have lepracy and are make to fell less than human because of one vice that they have chosen. If all the smokers were drunks i dont think that they would be getting the 5th degree that they get for smoking.

[Shipyard Cruiser]

To bad I didn't see these two posts before my post. One more input:

 

 

 

a) I don't flush my money down the toilet. I have a limit I don't exceed which is part of my cruising experience.

 

b) we still do healthy excursions if we feel like it

 

But it is not about if I flush my money down the toilet or not or if I in general live a healthy or unhealthy life. You have no right to make that determination. It is about non smokers complaining about smoking in the casino yet when the casino is smoke free they won't go their or if a casino has a smoke free area that non smokers still gamble in the smoking section. That is the issue with making (or not making) a stand on a cruise ship - nothing else.

 

 

 

So, you are now walking away from arguments and post some myths which nobody ever has said?

 

 

Who said that? We are defending our opinion just like the non smokers? Would you like to take away our right of expressing our opinion?

 

 

Smokers are better for certain business than others as well as non smokers are.

 

 

I doubt that a cruise line would go out of business. If their demographics are close to 100% non smokers I really doubt that. RCI is a mass market cruise line with big ships to fill. They could not afford to scramble to fill 25% to 50% of staterooms with non smokers. Bottomline is that you can fill ships with non smokers. The Carnival Paradise was sailing full but for some reason onboard revenue was dramatically down and to fill the ship it had to be heavily discounted. Some argue that the ship sailed the same itinerary over and over again and it lost its attraction but most ships do that and they still fill them to the top and make money. If the Paradise experience would have been a success in any way shape or form even in the beginning Carnival would have continued that.

 

 

Who said that? Smoking is bad. I am a smoker and I admit to it. As healthy as I am now it will catch up with me one day. The question is what will kill me faster and with less agony? A large percentage of smokers who quit gain weight very fast and a large percentage has trouble keeping the pounds off. I see that all around me. With gaining weight come other health problems.

 

At issue is not smoking or smokers but rather "is the occasional whiff of second hand smoke so dangerous to you and other non smokers that you have become radical and fanatical about it. (the you is not directed at you personally. I used it in general terms.)

 

 

 

I am a smoker and I am not great. But thank you anyways. I am as flawed as the next person but I do know some of my flaws and recognize them and I am willing to change. A lot of people do not know their flaws or won't admit to them.

 

As I said in a previous post that I ask every single time I want to smoke a cigarette at the table if anybody minds. Even if nobody minds I still do everything possible to keep the smoke away. Smoking is a flaw, I recognize that and I act accordingly. I just don't want to hear the bitching and moaning if I do something I am legally allowed to do. In that case I say: you play by the rules. (you in general terms again)

 

 

Non smokers are NOT evil. I have many friends who are non smokers. We have an arrangement when it comes to us smokers to make life for everybody liveable. The only evils are smokers and non smokers who are radical and fanatical about the issue and are not willing to compromise.

 

 

 

Not really. It was flawed. LOL. :D;)

 

 

 

I can't speak for others but I don't justify my habit of smoking. I just argue the whiff of second hand smoke. I even admit that a non smoker working and living in a smoking environment is at as much danger as a smoker. But I definitely argue the whiff of occasional smoke or walking through a smoking environment that this is in any way shape or form dangerous to you.

 

Cheers and happy sailings. ;)

 

For the second time except for the last line my post was ment as a joke.

 

Again a drug addict, legal or not, will say anything to justify their habit.

 

That about sums up my position.

 

Which really has nothing to do with smoking rules on RCI:D

 

Do you think the whole ship should be smoking?

 

As smoke is not harmful at all is that your solution?

 

Should non-smokers have any rights on RCI?

 

Will this bring the thread more or less back on topic/

[shaggyofwv]

 

That is debatable. If you believe studies which has been done with false data and has been sponsored by a company who came out with the nicotine patch and faith based lobbiest and politicians then you are correct.

 

 

 

The only healthy people at risk with second hand smoke are those (or were those) who worked 8 hours a day in a smoking environment with bad air circulation (i.e. flight attendants). These people suffered and of course it is unhealthy for us non smokers.

 

The occasional whiff at second smoke will not impact you at all.

 

 

 

a) I smoke

b) I gamble on cruises but otherwise I don't. It is not a bad habit, it is fun entertainment. I interact more with people then I spend money. Interacting with people is priceless.

c) I drink moderate alcohol unless I am on a cruise where I raise my drinking a little.

 

So what you call bad habits I do occasionally and I leave a wonderful life.

 

 

 

If you do not limit yourself then I do not feel sorry for you at all. If you feel that a whiff of second hand smoke is going to kill you then you are reckless with your health. But I will explain this a little further down.

 

That does not explain non smokers who gamble in smoking zones rather than in non smoking zones.

 

*****In General*****

 

What irks me with statements like 'why should I limit myself' (and most non smokers do that):

 

You have a choice of cruising on a non smoking cruise line or a cruise line with more restrictions. But you choose to cruise on RCI and bitch and moan.

 

I love RCI as much, probably more, than anybody but if RCI would go totally non smoking and I haven't quit smoking by then I would look for another line which fits my needs.

 

 

:D

 

 

I don't need a study, I have seen it first hand in my work. I work in the medical field and I see what first hand AND second hand smoke does to people.

I have patients who have never smoked in their life, but they were exposed to the second hand smoke of their parents/family and now they are on supplimental oxygen due to the damage that this second hand smoke has caused to their body.

 

And, again I ask, WHY should I limit myself to where I should go on a cruise ship? I don't carry a toxic cloud of smoke with me so my presence in any given area will not harm or cause discomfort to anyone else.. SMOKERS, on the other hand, can and DO cause harm and discomfort to others when they are smoking in public.

I do not try to limit where you can go, only where you can smoke.. That is a big difference.

[CarolinaPSU]

I don't need a study, I have seen it first hand in my work. I work in the medical field and I see what first hand AND second hand smoke does to people.

I have patients who have never smoked in their life, but they were exposed to the second hand smoke of their parents/family and now they are on supplimental oxygen due to the damage that this second hand smoke has caused to their body.

 

And, again I ask, WHY should I limit myself to where I should go on a cruise ship? I don't carry a toxic cloud of smoke with me so my presence in any given area will not harm or cause discomfort to anyone else.. SMOKERS, on the other hand, can and DO cause harm and discomfort to others when they are smoking in public.

I do not try to limit where you can go, only where you can smoke.. That is a big difference.

 

To answer your question, you do not need to limit yourself where you go on a ship. You are free to choose.

[elpapa]

I guess I do lots of things that are potentially injurious to my health and I honestly don't know the truth about the dangers of global warming, climate change, type 7 plastic and second hand smoke.

 

I do know, however, that I do not like the smell of smoke, second hand or not. Nor the smell of dirty ashtrays, discarded cigaret butts, or my clothes after I have spent a few minutes in a smoky environment. I would go so far as to say that heavy smokers themselves seem to carry a cloud of unpleasant odour with them whether they are smoking at the time or not. And, please forgive me, I find all these smells unpleasant. So when I am contained in a ships environment, to me, all smoking is bad smoking and I'd like to see it stop.

 

Of course, I recognize that there are plenty of other things that also can be unpleasant. Heavy perfume for one in the smell arena, cellphones in restaurants for another.

 

But we can't go through life having everything the way we personally would like. A certain tolerance for others habits probably leads to a certain tolerance for your own. I will ignore your weird laugh if you ignore my nose picking. A certain consideration for others probably leads to a certain consideration for yourself. If you wont whistle at the dinner table, I wont practice my tuba at 6 am.

 

But I still don't like the smell of cigarettes.

 

Gord

[FL_Cruiser64]

All i can say after reading all 13 pages of this thread is WOW!!!!!The smoking threads are the worst possible subject that brings out the worst in some posters.

The reason threads like this get pulled is because people cannot remain civil and courteous to each other. It gets down to name calling and being sarcastic to the point of being rude and offensive.

I wonder if some of the posters actually met on the ship in each others designated area if you would recognize them by the tone of the conversations taking place. Would each party take out statistics stating their stance on the subject of SHS? I dont think so. As smokers a such a small percentage of people anymore it really does not justify some of the remarks made by some fo the non smokers. But on the other hand some of the comments that smokers make really are on the defensive side of nature. Smokers cannot help but get defensive when someone treats them like they have lepracy and are make to fell less than human because of one vice that they have chosen. If all the smokers were drunks i dont think that they would be getting the 5th degree that they get for smoking.

 

I doubt that. I yet have to encounter the moment that I refuse to meet people even if they live on the other side of the debate be it political, religious, smoking/non smoking. You debate and you live on.

 

Life is too short to harp on petty little things like that. If I would take out every person in my life who sits on the other side of the fence in many issues I would have a very lonely life. I also would have missed out on some great people. I do separate issues and never had a problem. If we disagree on one issue, we have agree on others.

 

Heck, CaptainJack is the complete opposite from what I am in so many ways but I would not hesitate one bit to walk up to him, shake his hand at sail-away and buy a drink for both of us and celebrate cruising and we would laugh how childish we are on CC.

 

I think these threads become so heated because people just take everything so personal. Most of my posts sound harsh but they are not intended like that. It is tough sometimes to see through written words the emotional state of one.

 

My step mom taught me a lesson. She died at the young age of 56. She didn't drink (unless it was on social functions), she didn't smoke, she lived a healthy life and yes my dad smoked most of the years, so she lived with a smoker. But not even second hand smoke killed her. It was a cancer anybody and everybody is in jeopardy to get. She raised 4 kids and worked as well. She taught us all the values in life. Yet, 6 month before my dad retired she passed away. She could not harvest the fields. She never saw my first house, never was able to see her grand children grow up (neither mine nor my sisters) and threw the plan to travel to see all the grand children grow after my dad retired out the window.

 

56! It taught me the lesson that despite all differences between people, all the health problems one can have life is something precious and people regardless of age, social standing, color, race, heritage, smoking/non smoking, weight, politics, religion and smells are priceless. We are who we are and I would never characterize a person overall just because a petty difference we may have in one or two areas. I think the only people I despise are cheaters, liars, crooks and disrespectful people.

 

To be honest I don't think nor do I feel that anybody on here was disrespectful to me by just stating their opinion and a lot of them have said many more harmful things than I ever would type. It is just one issue which in the grand scheme of things is very small and insignificant.

 

But I do feel that a lot of posters here take things way to serious and require to ease up a little. :D

[FL_Cruiser64]

For the second time except for the last line my post was ment as a joke.

 

My post was an answer recognizing your jokeful post as I indicated with smileys and the happy cruising at the end. ;)

 

 

Do you think the whole ship should be smoking?

 

Not at all. It should be a place for everybody. Let me tell you how I feel about the subject.

 

Since we started sailing on RCI the Schooner Bar was always our favorite. We would spend most of our nights there. Our first drink on the ship was in the Schooner Bar. Yet, I felt it was an inappropriate venue for having smokers. The Schooner Bar, on almost every ship, is also a walk through venue. I knew that when RCI comes out with a new smoking policy that on most ships the Schooner Bar would be 'victimized'. But you know what? I agree with the decision of a non smoking Schooner Bar. Because even for me it got to stuffy at times. My reaction to my wife was: darn, we lost the Schooner Bar.

 

But I didn't complain or whine. We looked for a new venue and we found it.

 

As smoke is not harmful at all is that your solution?

Hey, I never said that. I am arguing the occasional whiff of second hand smoke. Like this post is completely off:

I have patients who have never smoked in their life, but they were exposed to the second hand smoke of their parents/family and now they are on supplimental oxygen due to the damage that this second hand smoke has caused to their body.

 

I never argued with second hand smoke due to long term exposure such as in a working or living environment. I made that clear in my post. But above poster refused to read my post and see that I am arguing with the occasional whiff of second hand smoke on a cruise ship.

 

Smoke in large quantities such as for smokers and non smokers who spend most of their day in smoking environments over a long period of time is and always was dangerous. If I would go against this argument I would fool myself and would not be credible anymore.

 

The reason why we have smoking laws is not that you can have your dinner in a smoke free environment but there are there to protect the workers who have to work there. There is no study about health issues with the occasional whiff of smoke.

 

Should non-smokers have any rights on RCI?

 

Of course. And with the increase of non smoking areas the rights of non smokers have increased. But do smokers have no right?

 

It seems to me that the only people who should have rights are non smokers.

 

 

Will this bring the thread more or less back on topic/

 

I think it was always on topic.

 

Darn, now I broke my own promise again (I am outta here). LOL.:D

[FL_Cruiser64]

One more thing.. The reason that these threads get closed is because people don't remain civil towards each other. If we would all take a deep breath and just have a clean and educational debate, then we would all be the better for it.

 

I think it has been pretty civil. I think that is one of the greatest smoking/non smoking threads ever on CC.

 

We may differ, but we debate. :D

[snoopysnake]

I agree, this should be a simple solution. But as someone else pointed out a couple of smoking threads ago, non-smoking areas are like non-peeing areas in pools. It just doesn't work. Again, I'm not criticizing smokers - they are doing what's allowed. I'm criticizing RCI's smoking policy and lack of technical means to keep smoke in the smoking area. Here are 2 examples of RCI's smoking policy that I disagree with. On Voyager class ships, smoking is allowed in the English pub off the Promonade. Unfortunately the smoke does not stay within the pub and comes out onto the Promonade. I don't go in the pub (following your suggestion to stay out of smoking areas) yet I end up in the smoke anyhow because I'm on the Promonade. On the Voyager Schooner Bar, the bar area is smoking but the seating area is not. This is crazy. The Schooner Bar is a venue that has many events during the day that I'd love to enjoy smoke free. I don't sit at the bar, I sit in the seating area. Yet it's still smoky. How come if I'm in the no smoking section, there's smoke all around me? Fortunately, whoever controls this on Mariner has figured out how crazy this is and the entire Schooner Bar on Mariner is non smoking.

 

I've already beat the balcony thing to death. I'll wait for next week's smoking thread to expound on that again.

 

Amen! I will reemphasize one of your statements, as I had a similar issue on Rhapsody recently: "The Schooner Bar is a venue that has many events during the day that I'd love to enjoy smoke free. I don't sit at the bar, I sit in the seating area. Yet it's still smoky. How come if I'm in the no smoking section, there's smoke all around me?"

 

Yes, I had wanted to enjoy a Schooner Bar event, as opposed to being at that particular bar, and had been told that it had a section where I would not have to worry about smoke, but it was very smoky in the non-smoking section anyway; there was not sufficient distance/ventilation to make the area one where I could be without being ill. This is RCCL's fault. They could have held this event in one of the real non-smoking areas, where it could have been enjoyed by the majority of passengers instead of just those who smoke or aren't bothered by smoke.

[FL_Cruiser64]

Amen! I will reemphasize one of your statements, as I had a similar issue on Rhapsody recently: "The Schooner Bar is a venue that has many events during the day that I'd love to enjoy smoke free. I don't sit at the bar, I sit in the seating area. Yet it's still smoky. How come if I'm in the no smoking section, there's smoke all around me?"

 

Yes, I had wanted to enjoy a Schooner Bar event, as opposed to being at that particular bar, and had been told that it had a section where I would not have to worry about smoke, but it was very smoky in the non-smoking section anyway; there was not sufficient distance/ventilation to make the area one where I could be without being ill. This is RCCL's fault. They could have held this event in one of the real non-smoking areas, where it could have been enjoyed by the majority of passengers instead of just those who smoke or aren't bothered by smoke.

 

The Schooner Bar is really a tough area to have a smoking/non smoking section.

 

As a smoker I posted

Since we started sailing on RCI the Schooner Bar was always our favorite. We would spend most of our nights there. Our first drink on the ship was in the Schooner Bar. Yet, I felt it was an inappropriate venue for having smokers. The Schooner Bar, on almost every ship, is also a walk through venue. I knew that when RCI comes out with a new smoking policy that on most ships the Schooner Bar would be 'victimized'. But you know what? I agree with the decision of a non smoking Schooner Bar. Because even for me it got to stuffy at times. My reaction to my wife was: darn, we lost the Schooner Bar.

 

But I thought that the Schooner Bar is non smoking on most ships now.

:eek:

[abcten]

The only healthy people at risk with second hand smoke are those (or were those) who worked 8 hours a day in a smoking environment with bad air circulation (i.e. flight attendants). These people suffered and of course it is unhealthy for us non smokers.

 

The occasional whiff at second smoke will not impact you at all.

 

 

 

This is untrue. Attached below is the relevant link but it states in part:

 

 

 

There is NO risk-free level of secondhand smoke exposure, with even brief exposure adversely affecting the cardiovascular and respiratory system.

 

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/news/speeches/06272006a.html

[Shipyard Cruiser]

This is untrue. Attached below is the relevant link but it states in part:

 

 

 

There is NO risk-free level of secondhand smoke exposure, with even brief exposure adversely affecting the cardiovascular and respiratory system.

 

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/news/speeches/06272006a.html

 

Posting stuff like this is pointless.

 

Smokers do not see the risks in what they do. They will always find a way to justify the habit.

 

And nothing you or I say will change that.

 

And it's pointless to try.

 

You can only hope they will respect your rights as a non-smoker.

 

Because they will make very sure you respect their rights as a smoker.

 

See, I have learned something from this thread:D

[aloha43]

 

There is little to no risk from social exposure to SHS according to the WHO study data - sorry - it's another myth or assumption

 

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

 

On the WHO site.....this is what I found....

 

http://www.who.int/features/qa/60/en/index.html

 

Or are you looking at a different WHO site?

[Captain Jake]

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

 

On the WHO site.....this is what I found....

 

http://www.who.int/features/qa/60/en/index.html

 

Or are you looking at a different WHO site?

 

And I thought we were switching to Rock Band History

[Captain Jake]

 

Heck, CaptainJack is the complete opposite from what I am in so many ways but I would not hesitate one bit to walk up to him, shake his hand at sail-away and buy a drink for both of us and celebrate cruising and we would laugh how childish we are on CC.

 

I think these threads become so heated because people just take everything so personal. Most of my posts sound harsh but they are not intended like that. It is tough sometimes to see through written words the emotional state of one.

 

 

I learned a long time ago not to take things too personal on CC though Its hard not to sometimes.I think responding on these smoking threads is a game to a lot of CC veterans and most of the time I'm having fun and I assume Allie,64,Don ,Shipyard and others are just enjoying the competition though it may get a bit heated at times----------------BT

[cruisinMike]

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

 

On the WHO site.....this is what I found....

 

http://www.who.int/features/qa/60/en/index.html

 

Or are you looking at a different WHO site?

 

Actually, the issue that Allie wrongly brings up about the WHO, is the disinformation that is spread by the Tobacco industry. Allie has admitted to not being able to find her information on the WHO site and it is no wonder....it is not there.....never was.

 

However here is a link to one group that has research some of the disinformation from tobacco companies that some of the smokers have latched on to as gospel and coming from the WHO. I wish some on this thread practice what they preach and I quote:

 

"You can believe all the PC junk you've been spoon fed. Me? I prefer to look at what actual SCIENTISTS say - from a study by actual SCIENTISTS - commissioned by the World Health Organization.

( http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=800370&page=9 ).

 

Now I posted several links to the WHO or supporting organizations on this topic. (page 13 post #243 ) ( http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=800370&page=13 ). Will this lead to a change of heart. As I posted originally, I doubt it as it does not support the behavior. However I hope it will lead to the end of citing in almost every other post, disinformation concerning the WHO.

 

Fo those of you interested in a perspective on disinformation from the tobacco industry, here is a link for your perusal.

 

http://www.tobaccoscam.ucsf.edu/Secondhand/Secondhand_iih_internal_1.cfm

 

Also from the WHO itself:

 

http://www.who.int/inf-pr-1998/en/pr98-29.html

[beachdogboarder]

And your generation is doing such a good job that your kids never learn how to lose a game, can't handle discipline, can't take "no" for an answer, and have you busy trying to take away the freedom of others, instead of teaching your children values.

 

No kids yet.Need to Graduate High School and College,get established in a job,find a women that will have me,ect,ect,ect.Give me 10 years and then maybe kids

[Shipyard Cruiser]

And I thought we were switching to Rock Band History

 

I really like the Who:D

 

I can see for miles and I won't get fooled again.

 

Now back to your smoking thread.

[aloha43]

I really like the Who:D

 

I can see for miles and I won't get fooled again.

 

Now back to your smoking thread.

 

LOL!

 

I almost used the "I can see for miles", and you beat me to it!

[cruisinMike]

LOL!

 

I almost used the "I can see for miles", and you beat me to it!

 

 

Actually and perhaps more appropriately for the disinformation in this thread:

 

"We won't get fooled again"!