Smoking Policy from a Brits point of view!

[Captain Jake]

Not sure I agree with your reasoning. My guess would be that PU is restricted more for being a health hazard.

 

This thread has gone on for longer than before, hasn't it. I wonder what makes the moderators pull the plug?

 

A Vicious Insult or Two will do the trick.So far I would say this has been extremely mild-mannered for a Smoking Thread but stay tuned----BT:D

[Shipyard Cruiser]

It's not that we don't believe you don't like the smell of smoke - I believe it - just as much as I believe scents/perfumes have same effects on me. It's that we aren't trying to legislate or ban little pine things - heck - you can wear one around your neck into your office or a public place - just like you can douse yourself in perfume - all perfectly ok in society today.

 

When faced with someone who has an overwhelming smell I don't like - I move away from them as fast as I can - I don't try to pass a law. You can do the same with anyone that smells like smoke. As for actual smoke - it's easily avoided - don't go the few remaining places smoking is allowed. I don't come into a non-smoking area and light up, you (collective you, not you personally) shouldn't come into a smoking area and complain.

 

It's a lot more then the smell.

 

Second hand smoke can kill people.

 

But know one who smokes really thinks that true.

[Captain Jake]

It's a lot more then the smell.

 

Second hand smoke can kill people.

 

But know one who smokes really thinks that true.

 

 

You Hit the Nail on the Head!----------BT

[AllieInMD]

Ok - and when they come up with a solution that is fair to all, I'm all ears. However, in the interim I'm not ok with being unfair only to one side because it's easy or popular.

 

 

I agree with this, mostly. My complaint is not with smokers. My complaint is with the smoking policy of RCI. I don't mind avoiding areas on the ship where smoking is allowed, such as the smoking side of the pool deck. It's easy just to move to the other side. No big deal. However, when I encounter smoke on my balcony (from smokers legitimately smoking on their balcony), then I complain to RCI because I cannot get away from the smoke unless I give up my balcony. I know this is not fair to smokers, but it's not fair to me either, and I don't know of a solution that would satisfy all.

[G'ma]

Any credibility you may have had has vanished like a puff of smoke. But that is understandable. When you strip away all the talk about smoking, one fact remains. Smokers, quite plain and simple, are drug addicts. They are addicted to nicotine. That is a fact. Drug addicts will do and say anything to justify continuing their addiction. It's really quite sad. But, sad or not, innocent victims of the second hand smoke spewed by nicotine addicts need to stand up for their rights to breathe air free of second hand smoke.

 

Since you seem to be unaware of the dangers of second hand smoke, here is a useful article from the Surgeon General with the main messages below:

 

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/news/speeches/06272006a.html

 

Main Messages

 

I would like to draw your attention to several new conclusions that I have reached due to overwhelming scientific evidence.

• Secondhand smoke exposure causes heart disease and lung cancer in adults and sudden infant death syndrome and respiratory problems in children.
  
• There is NO risk-free level of secondhand smoke exposure, with even brief exposure adversely affecting the cardiovascular and respiratory system.
  
• Only smoke-free environments effectively protect nonsmokers from secondhand smoke exposure in indoor spaces.
  
• Finally, the Report concludes that, while great strides have been made in recent years in reducing nonsmoking Americans’ secondhand smoke exposure, millions of Americans continue to be exposed to secondhand smoke in their homes and workplaces.

 

My, my!

 

Are you concerned about 190,000 people who die every year due to hospital/physician error?

 

Or, 18,000 a year who die as a result of drunk driving?

 

Or, 70,000 a year who die as the direct result of air pollution?

 

Now, there's a few things that YOU can actually do something about. Or, is it just smokers you get ya all riled up?

[Davey Interweb]

Quick, someone should tell the Brits that their smoking ban isn't hurting businesses.

[AllieInMD]

You're right in that - a measure of a country is how many are trying to get in, and how many are trying to get out. Although I know our European neighbors would disagree - I still think its the best country on the face of the earth.

 

But it's all relative - if I was being slaughtered in genocide in Africa I wouldn't think twice about smoking bans before getting out, but that's now what American's are faced with. And no - it's not the land of the free by default - you have to fight for it - and eventually bad laws are repealed - like the gun bans, Prohibition, segregation laws, etc. Just because we live in the greatest country on earth doesn't mean that what's done as public policy is right or good.

 

And I agree with the home of the brave - if I'm in trouble, nobody I want standing next to me more than a US soldier - any branch.

 

If this is such a crappy place,Why are so many coming and so few leaving?No doubt The USA is the LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE!----BT

[AllieInMD]

Me thinks you are wrong - look at state laws, ordinances, etc - PU is usually covered in tech same sections as sexual crimes - and very few have any actual laws against PU - some even cover it under 'littering'

 

Not sure I agree with your reasoning. My guess would be that PU is restricted more for being a health hazard.

 

This thread has gone on for longer than before, hasn't it. I wonder what makes the moderators pull the plug?

[Captain Jake]

My' date=' my!

 

Are you concerned about 190,000 people who die every year due to hospital/physician error?

 

Or, 18,000 a year who die as a result of drunk driving?

 

Or, 70,000 a year who die as the direct result of air pollution?

 

Now, there's a few things that YOU can actually do something about. Or, is it just smokers you get ya all riled up?

 

 

Drunk Driving Deaths are Down as a result of Much Welcomed Law Enforcement

Air Quality Standards are being Step Upped Every Year

Physicians are Held accountable for their Errors

People do care about their health.Why do youthink they re taking a Rightful Stand Against Smoking?----------------BT

[Shipyard Cruiser]

Quick, someone should tell the Brits that their smoking ban isn't hurting businesses.

 

In the US most people do not smoke.

 

So it would seem to be good business to cater to the non-smoker.

 

Unless you think smokers also drink and gamble more then non-smokers.

 

Sort of a triple threat:D

[AllieInMD]

You can believe all the PC junk you've been spoon fed. Me? I prefer to look at what actual SCIENTISTS say - from a study by actual SCIENTISTS - commissioned by the World Health Organization.

 

Abstract with conclusions (emphasis added by me):

RESULTS: ETS exposure during childhood was not associated with an increased risk of lung cancer (odds ratio [OR] for ever exposure = 0.78; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.64-0.96). The OR for ever exposure to spousal ETS was 1.16 (95% CI = 0.93-1.44). No clear dose-response relationship could be demonstrated for cumulative spousal ETS exposure. The OR for ever exposure to workplace ETS was 1.17 (95% CI = 0.94-1.45), with possible evidence of increasing risk for increasing duration of exposure. No increase in risk was detected in subjects whose exposure to spousal or workplace ETS ended more than 15 years earlier. Ever exposure to ETS from other sources was not associated with lung cancer risk. Risks from combined exposure to spousal and workplace ETS were higher for squamous cell carcinoma and small-cell carcinoma than for adenocarcinoma, but the differences were not statistically significant. CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate no association between childhood exposure to ETS and lung cancer risk. We did find weak evidence of a dose-response relationship between risk of lung cancer and exposure to spousal and workplace ETS. There was no detectable risk after cessation of exposure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lot more then the smell.

 

Second hand smoke can kill people.

 

But know one who smokes really thinks that true.

[AllieInMD]

too bad science doesn't agree :)

 

 

You Hit the Nail on the Head!----------BT

[Shipyard Cruiser]

You can believe all the PC junk you've been spoon fed. Me? I prefer to look at what actual SCIENTISTS say - from a study by actual SCIENTISTS - commissioned by the World Health Organization.

 

Abstract with conclusions (emphasis added by me):

RESULTS: ETS exposure during childhood was not associated with an increased risk of lung cancer (odds ratio [OR] for ever exposure = 0.78; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.64-0.96). The OR for ever exposure to spousal ETS was 1.16 (95% CI = 0.93-1.44). No clear dose-response relationship could be demonstrated for cumulative spousal ETS exposure. The OR for ever exposure to workplace ETS was 1.17 (95% CI = 0.94-1.45), with possible evidence of increasing risk for increasing duration of exposure. No increase in risk was detected in subjects whose exposure to spousal or workplace ETS ended more than 15 years earlier. Ever exposure to ETS from other sources was not associated with lung cancer risk. Risks from combined exposure to spousal and workplace ETS were higher for squamous cell carcinoma and small-cell carcinoma than for adenocarcinoma, but the differences were not statistically significant. CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate no association between childhood exposure to ETS and lung cancer risk. We did find weak evidence of a dose-response relationship between risk of lung cancer and exposure to spousal and workplace ETS. There was no detectable risk after cessation of exposure.

 

 

Can't argue with logic like that:D

 

Money really does talk:o

[AllieInMD]

Hate to tell ya - the WHO is one of the most vigorous anti-smoking organizations out there and commissioned the study to prove how dangerous SHS was - and were greatly embarrassed by the outcome of the study - so much so that they tried to bury it - until outted in public by the WSJ and I do believe there was a big to do about it in the British papers too.

 

Kinda kills your theory that results were purchased.

 

Can't argue with logic like that:D

 

Money really does talk:o

[nellydean]

smoking is a dying pastime (in the truest sense of the word) and it's only a matter of time before it is outlawed from all public places worldwide

 

interestingly, there was a piece in the Daily Mirror yesterday, showing that, depsite predictions otherwise, 234,060 people has quit smoking since the ban was introduced in England last summer, and, more importantly, only 3% of pubs had reported a bad impact on business

 

The smoking ban has been hailed as the single most important health measure for a generation, after record numbers kicked the habit

 

the report will be officially published on the first anniversary of the ban coming into effect on July 1st

 

royal caribbean, as with other cruise lines, will eventually be forced to come to heel on this issue, and not a moment too soon

 

I was on NOS recently, in the casino, and the smoke was so bad that I had to leave a winning streak to go get some air and clear my eyes

 

nasty, disgusting habit, the sooner it's completely banned the better

[Shipyard Cruiser]

smoking is a dying pastime (in the truest sense of the word) and it's only a matter of time before it is outlawed from all public places worldwide

 

interestingly, there was a piece in the Daily Mirror yesterday, showing that, depsite predictions otherwise, 234,060 people has quit smoking since the ban was introduced in England last summer, and, more importantly, only 3% of pubs had reported a bad impact on business

 

The smoking ban has been hailed as the single most important health measure for a generation, after record numbers kicked the habit

 

the report will be officially published on the first anniversary of the ban coming into effect on July 1st

 

royal caribbean, as with other cruise lines, will eventually be forced to come to heel on this issue, and not a moment too soon

 

I was on NOS recently, in the casino, and the smoke was so bad that I had to leave a winning streak to go get some air and clear my eyes

 

nasty, disgusting habit, the sooner it's completely banned the better

 

Also when you strip everything else away smoking is legal drug addition.

 

And drug addicts legal or not will find any way to justify their habit.

 

Sorry to go a little off topic.

[AllieInMD]

Oh silly woman - of course they aren't concerned about THOSE dead people. Cuz to address that they might have to have more restrictions on booze or not be allowed to have their gas guzzling SUV or have to justify their 'carbon footprint'. Heck, even Mr. Nobel Al Gore wasn't able to survive that scrutiny - was just another "do as I say, not as I do" wanting to tell everyone else how to live - as long as it doesn't impact what THEY want.

 

 

My' date=' my!

 

Are you concerned about 190,000 people who die every year due to hospital/physician error?

 

Or, 18,000 a year who die as a result of drunk driving?

 

Or, 70,000 a year who die as the direct result of air pollution?

 

Now, there's a few things that YOU can actually do something about. Or, is it just smokers you get ya all riled up?

[Shipyard Cruiser]

Oh silly woman - of course they aren't concerned about THOSE dead people. Cuz to address that they might have to have more restrictions on booze or not be allowed to have their gas guzzling SUV or have to justify their 'carbon footprint'. Heck, even Mr. Nobel Al Gore wasn't able to survive that scrutiny - was just another "do as I say, not as I do" wanting to tell everyone else how to live - as long as it doesn't impact what THEY want.

 

Sorry but I have to ask.

 

Who is "they":confused:

[Davey Interweb]

Also when you strip everything else away smoking is legal drug addition.

 

And drug addicts legal or not will find any way to justify their habit.

 

Sorry to go a little off topic.

 

Off topic as well, but I suppose I could say the same about folks and their addiction to oil. Watching peoples' behavior as crude prices rise is quite amusing and makes me feel all fuzzy inside.

 

 

[AllieInMD]

Drunk Driving - uh - I don't see a huge improvement in last 10 years of data:

 

EDITED: eh, the formatting came out very weird. Highlights from last 10 years listed:

 

1996 deaths from drunk driving 17,749 percentage of all auto fatalities 42%

2006 death from drunk driving 15,829 percentage of all auto fatalities 37%

 

 

I can't find a good source for air quality standards, but I'm not buying it. Big business and how many hundreds of thousands of SUVs were sold in last 10 years? Hybrids are just starting to make any real appearance. I still see tons of smokestacks in cities all over. Heck, I rode a motorcycle through coal mining country in WV and we were covered by black soot.

 

Physicians held accountable? Their malpractice insurance pays off the victim and the doctor goes on. You gotta KILL a lotta people before they yank your license - and who gets to decide? Other doctors? Good ole boy network.

 

People 'take a stand' against something when it's popular. Bet not 2 out of every 100 people who post about the evils of smoking tries to pass laws regulating people's energy use or what kind of vehicle they can drive. Bet they wouldn't even take public transport of their own free will - I know I won't even if it was available.

 

 

 

Drunk Driving Deaths are Down as a result of Much Welcomed Law Enforcement

Air Quality Standards are being Step Upped Every Year

Physicians are Held accountable for their Errors

People do care about their health.Why do youthink they re taking a Rightful Stand Against Smoking?----------------BT

[Captain Jake]

Your stats show a downward trend

[Shipyard Cruiser]

I guess everyones in cahoots aganist the smokers:D

 

Wow, I never knew:)

[AllieInMD]

Well, not to mention the actual posters here in prior threads that have talked about the hit businesses in England and Wales have taken, there's these.....

 

The ban came into force in Wales on 2 April 2007. Six months after the ban's implementation in Wales, the Licensed Victuallers Association (LVA), which represents pub operators across Wales, claimed pubs had lost up to 20% of their trade.

 

The German Hotel and Restaurant Association (DEHOGA) claimed that the ban deterred people from going out for a drink or meal, stating that 15% of establishments that adopted a smoking ban in 2007 saw turnover fall by around 50%.

 

England or Ireland (wasn't clear which): Nearly 440 fewer pub licences were issued or renewed last year than in 2005, the steepest fall recorded in the Republic. The greatest number of closures were in remote communities along the West Coast. Up to 1,000 rural bars are now thought to have shut since the ban came into effect in 2004.

 

Three months after the ban in England came into force, The Rank Group, owners of Mecca Bingo Halls and Grosvenor Casinos, claimed that coupled with the Gambling Act 2005 which imposed restrictions on the number of £500 jackpot fruit machines, the smoking ban had had a detrimental impact upon its profits.

 

 

Bingo hall customers have declined by 600,000 since the ban's introduction. Combined with the negative impact on revenue of the smoking ban, and government tax rules, one third of bingo halls are facing closure.

 

 

 

The British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA), an organisation representing breweries across United Kingdom has claimed beer sales are at their lowest level since the 1930s. The BBPA attributed a fall in sales of 7% during 2007 to the smoking ban.

 

 

 

According to a survey conducted by pub and bar trade magazine The Publican, the anticipated increase in sales of food following the smoking ban has not occurred. The trade magazine's survey of 303 pubs in the United Kingdom found the average customer spent £14.86 on food and drink at dinner in 2007, virtually identical to 2006.

 

 

 

A survey conducted by BII (formerly British Institute of Innkeeping) and the Federation of Licensed Victuallers' Associations (FLVA) concluded that sales had decreased by 7.3% in the 5 months since the smoking ban's introduction on 1 July 2007. Of the 2,708 responses to the survey, 58% of licensees said they had seen smokers visiting less regularly, while 73% had seen their smoking customers spending less time at the pub.

 

 

The smoking ban has been partly blamed for Sports Cafe bars group going into administration.

 

 

 

Britain's largest pub operator, Punch Taverns, have reported an estimated 5% decline in trading throughout the traditionally busy Christmas period, which the company attributes to diminishing consumer confidence and the effects of the smoking ban.

 

 

 

smoking is a dying pastime (in the truest sense of the word) and it's only a matter of time before it is outlawed from all public places worldwide

 

interestingly, there was a piece in the Daily Mirror yesterday, showing that, depsite predictions otherwise, 234,060 people has quit smoking since the ban was introduced in England last summer, and, more importantly, only 3% of pubs had reported a bad impact on business

 

The smoking ban has been hailed as the single most important health measure for a generation, after record numbers kicked the habit

 

the report will be officially published on the first anniversary of the ban coming into effect on July 1st

 

royal caribbean, as with other cruise lines, will eventually be forced to come to heel on this issue, and not a moment too soon

 

I was on NOS recently, in the casino, and the smoke was so bad that I had to leave a winning streak to go get some air and clear my eyes

 

nasty, disgusting habit, the sooner it's completely banned the better

[AllieInMD]

Yep it is - just like booze is - and even just drunk driving statistics the toll of human life is what? 5 times greater than the alleged 3000 of SHS? But THAT is not as worthy a public health crisis for your time/effort. Oh wait - they tried that before - didn't work. Just how many untold thousands would have lived long and prosperous lives if only alcohol wasn't allowed?

 

But hey - this is no different than Prohibition - the supporters of that were just as hyped up on the 'public good' as you all are - and they even got a Constitutional Amendment passed - and were 100% sure that it would ever be repealed. But it was :)

 

 

 

Also when you strip everything else away smoking is legal drug addition.

 

And drug addicts legal or not will find any way to justify their habit.

 

Sorry to go a little off topic.

[Clarea]

Me thinks you are wrong - look at state laws, ordinances, etc - PU is usually covered in tech same sections as sexual crimes - and very few have any actual laws against PU - some even cover it under 'littering'

OK, I'll check and have the info ready for the next smoking thread in a week or so. Just kidding.