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fmax

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Any advice appreciated

 

I've got a kodak dx 4330 and fuji finepix f40. Most photos are travel or family. Here's example from recent cruise

http://gallery.me.com/fsmaxwell

 

reading these threads has inspired me and I'm thinking of getting a DSLR and taking some photography classes so I'm used to the camera before a planned Alaska cruise in 2010.

 

I've gone to a few stores and looked at some and when asked to recommend an entry level DSLR I've had both the Nikon D40 6.1MP Digital SLR Camera With 18mm - 55mm Lens and Olympus E-volt E-510 10MP DSLR Camera With 14-42mm Lens Kit recommended.

 

I've also heard a lot lately about the Canon Rebel.

 

i don't think I need a lot of bells and whistles and not interested in movie/video mode. So would either of the store recommended ones be a safe bet... any other suggestions.

 

Again, any input much appreciated.

 

 

 

Frances

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Frances...don't worry so much about the recommendations - you can't really go wrong with image quality with any of the entry-levels out there, or any DSLR for that matter. Though some may have some feature better than the others, or fractionally better image quality in one particular parameter, in the end they're all quite capable and quite similar. What's more important is the price, the ergonomics, and the features that matter to you.

 

My primary recommendation would be to handle some of them, and see which ones feel best in your hands. Which ones have the grip that feels most comfortable, which do you find the buttons falling most conveniently to hand, which has the best viewfinder, etc. You'll take better pictures, and enjoy taking them, with a camera you are comfortable with.

 

If you don't already have a collection of lenses to help guide you to a particular brand, then you are free to choose whichever you like the most, or has the best sale price, or best features or lens availability. Check out what lenses within your budget are available for each camera you are considering, and which ones you'd most likely need.

 

Be sure you want to move to a DSLR. I know it sounds silly...but a whole lot of people buy DSLRs who really didn't need one, and in the end probably shoot less often because of it. They are bigger and heavier cameras, do require occasional cleaning, lens changes to cover the typical range of a compact ultra-zoom cam, are more expensive, and really aren't much better than a good advanced P&S for typical vacation shots (landscapes in good light, low ISO shooting, city scenics, slow shutter night shots). Decide if you want the added weight, complexity, and investment in lenses to shoot your photography. I know quite a few folks that would be happier with a good advanced P&S camera for under $400, that is light, compact, and can do everything they need it to - but they fell for the common misnomer that only DSLRs can shoot good photos.

 

The flip side of course, is that DSLRs can do some kinds of photography significantly better than any P&S camera...such as low light handheld shooting, indoor shooting, tracking moving objects and capturing fast-moving action, shooting burst modes, super wide angle scenes, and flash photography. If your photography needs seep into any of these areas, then a DSLR is definitely a recommended purchase. It's just a matter of knowing what you need the camera for, and then picking the best tool for the job. It's a tough call when you say your camera is for travel and family predominantly...because a P&S can cover that area pretty well. But sometimes you need to take lower light family shots, and a DSLR would do that better.

 

I shot over the past 2 years with an ultrazoom P&S camera...by choice. I shoot lots of wildlife, scenics, candids, landscapes, watersports...as well as vacations and family. My Sony H5 was able to do all of that nearly as well as a DSLR, and in some cases arguably better, all for under $400 and in a compact camera that was almost 1/2 the size of a typical DSLR. And the fixed lens covered a 35mm-equivalent range of 36mm to 432mm at F2.8 to F3.7...an equivalent lens in a DSLR isn't made, and if it was it would be more than a foot long, weigh 4+ Lbs, and cost well into the upper 4-digits! The results were good enough to sell prints and get published in magazines.

 

But I did find myself wanting to push into other areas of photography which my camera was limiting me from - low light work with high ISOs and better tracking of action and burst modes in particular. A few months ago, I picked up an entry-level DSLR, a Sony A300, and added 3 lenses. I can now cover the range of the H5, and can branch into those other areas of photography I always wanted to experiment with. My total investment is around $2,000 with all three lenses, and the size and weight are considerably more...it was a compromise I was finally willing to take.

 

I would personally recommend you not limit yourself to only a few brands - if you're looking, you might as well look at them all...Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Nikon, and Canon all make good DSLRs and each has their own lens selections that may suit your needs. Plus, you may like the ergonomics of one more than the rest.

 

Keep a few things in mind: Pentax, Sony, and Olympus all employ image stabilization in-body, while Nikon and Canon offer it in some lenses. The lens-based stabilization seems to be just a hair more effective, but you have to buy stabilized lenses - they are more expensive and not available in all lens ranges you might want. The in-body stabilization has an advantage of working with any lens you stick on the camera, and allows you to buy cheaper and even older used lenses and still get the benefits of image stabilization.

 

Also, if you are going to buy multiple lenses to cover a range of different uses, you'll find the biggest selection of lens ranges with Canon...Nikon would be second, Sony third (since they work with Minolta AF lenses), and the other two trailing slightly. So if wide availability of lenses is important to you, keep that in mind.

 

If you are only going to stick with one lens and want to find one with decent flexibility, see who has a good wide-to-tele lens that you can cover as many possible situations as possible. and don't forget the crop factor - all of these entry-level cameras have a sensor crop factor ranging from 1.4x to 2x - so whatever the mm range of the lens is, multiply that by the crop factor of your camera. On a 1.5x crop camera like the Nikon D60 or Sony A300, an 18-250 lens is technically shooting in a 35mm equivalent range of 27-375mm. The kit lens you mentioned with the Nikon (18-55) would be equivalent to 27mm-77mm. I picked up the afformentioned Sony 18-250 lens to be my 'all purpose' lens that stays on my camera most of the time - because it covers a very useful range from wide to long tele.

 

The Olympus cameras actually use a slightly smaller sensor on their DSLRs than the other manufacturers...rather than APS-C size, they use a '4/3' sensor...so they have the biggest crop factor of 2x. Keep that in mind when shopping especially for 'wide' lenses...what you think might be wide, such as 20mm, ends up giving you 40mm equivalent.

 

Hope I didn't confuse you too much. Just don't worry about image quality or one DSLR being hugely better than another - they're all quite good and you can't go wrong. And beware sales folks in recommendations - they tend to either have a favorite (which often ends up being the one they use) or are actually reimbursed more for moving certain brands, so their motives for recommending aren't always clear and sometimes steer people wrongly away from other fine choices. I've been in stores that clearly pushed Canons, and stores that clearly pushed Nikons...while Sony, Olympus, and Pentax are often overlooked or dismissed. I'd check them all out and make the most informed decision!

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Any advice appreciated

 

I've got a kodak dx 4330 and fuji finepix f40. Most photos are travel or family. Here's example from recent cruise

http://gallery.me.com/fsmaxwell

 

reading these threads has inspired me and I'm thinking of getting a DSLR and taking some photography classes so I'm used to the camera before a planned Alaska cruise in 2010.

 

I've gone to a few stores and looked at some and when asked to recommend an entry level DSLR I've had both the Nikon D40 6.1MP Digital SLR Camera With 18mm - 55mm Lens and Olympus E-volt E-510 10MP DSLR Camera With 14-42mm Lens Kit recommended.

 

I've also heard a lot lately about the Canon Rebel.

 

i don't think I need a lot of bells and whistles and not interested in movie/video mode. So would either of the store recommended ones be a safe bet... any other suggestions.

 

Again, any input much appreciated.

 

 

 

Frances

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are a few interesting reads:

 

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/5429/dslr-shootout-five-top-cameras-compared.html

 

http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/5220/bargain-bin-closeout-dslrs.html

 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm

 

In the end try them all out and see what feels best in your hands. Across the board what you can get at any level would any enthusiast drool only a few short years ago. Nikon and Cannon offer the most varied line of lenses and accessories. But, in reality unless you are going to be a pro Olympus, Sony, Pentax also offer almost everything you'd ever need.

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I am by no means a camera expert, but I am eventually going to step up to a DSLR and from research I am leaning heavily towards Pentax, here are my reasons. In body stabilization, ability to accept any pentax k-mount lens ever made (even my old ones from the '80s will be stabilized), and the fact that they are very well reviewed. There are many great choices out there but this is how I made my conclusion.

 

MAC

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Frances

 

Ditto for what the others have posted. The best advice really is to hold/use one at your local shops. Take a CF & SD card to the shop and take some photos. Make sure they will price match the following if you plan on buying one locally ( BHPhotovideo.com or Adorama.com ) These days the camera bodies are almost a commodity and the investment is in the lenses.

 

Ergonomics are a very personal and subjective thing. When you think about it you will likely have your camera in your hands for 1-3+ hours a day if you are shooting pics on a trip. Make sure it feels comfortable and that YOU like the controls and menus. Some recent reviews dinged cameras I personally like/use on their controls and the comments can be viewed as highly subjective....

 

Most of the dSLRs on the market today are very good for their target audience. Each offers feature sets targeted at different users. I like Olympus while my daughter likes Nikon as that is what she used in school.

 

Back to lenses for a minute - don't forget that you can rent specialized lenses before you invest in one. Many local shops or online such as http://www.prophotorental.com/ (no affiliation but they carry Oly:D glass) offer them at fair prices.,.

 

Last but not least is to allow yourself time (at least 2-3 weeks) before the trip to really get to know/learn your photo gear. Start off with 'program mode' and tweak settings as you get comfortable or need to.

 

Whatever camera you get buy a second battery so you always have a spare, particularly if it takes a proprietary one (non-AA). And if you do go with Oly check out the 2-lens kit (14-42mm and 40-150mm as these 'kit' lenses are regard as being very good glass!)

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

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Frances...don't worry so much about the recommendations - you can't really go wrong with image quality with any of the entry-levels out there, or any DSLR for that matter...

 

Tired this morning....

 

Thanks, Justin! You saved me a lot of typing with your sound assessment and advice!

 

Again' date=' any input much appreciated....[/quote']

 

Justin pointed out that all the majors make fine cameras, so I will add that you should go play with them. When the salesperson tell you about some whiz-bang feature, ask them to show you how it works. Where I'm going with this is that you should find a camera thet feels good in your hands and has controls and features that are easy to access.

 

I am a Sony/Minolta shooter and am very pleased with the feel and ergonomics of their cameras, but that's a personal choice. Whatever camera you end up with, make sure it's your choice as well and not just the one with the biggest discount or the one the salesman was pushing because he was getting a spiff from the manufacturer that week.

 

Good luck in your choice.

 

Dave

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Any advice appreciated

 

I've got a kodak dx 4330 and fuji finepix f40. Most photos are travel or family. Here's example from recent cruise

http://gallery.me.com/fsmaxwell

 

reading these threads has inspired me and I'm thinking of getting a DSLR and taking some photography classes so I'm used to the camera before a planned Alaska cruise in 2010.

 

I've gone to a few stores and looked at some and when asked to recommend an entry level DSLR I've had both the Nikon D40 6.1MP Digital SLR Camera With 18mm - 55mm Lens and Olympus E-volt E-510 10MP DSLR Camera With 14-42mm Lens Kit recommended.

 

I've also heard a lot lately about the Canon Rebel.

 

i don't think I need a lot of bells and whistles and not interested in movie/video mode. So would either of the store recommended ones be a safe bet... any other suggestions.

 

Again, any input much appreciated.

 

 

 

Frances

 

 

You mentioned the possibility of taking photography classes. I took an excellent on on-line class through our local university's continuing education department. Check out http://www.ed2go.com. Then you put in your zip code to see if their classes are offered through a college or university near you (they don't offer the classes directly). I took one called Secrets of Better Photography and it was great - I now know how to use a lot more of the features on my Canon DSC-H7 (8 mp - 15x zoom). I'm taking a travel photography class now - same instructor as the first class. We're going to Alaska the last 2 weeks of August and I'm hoping to get some great pics.

Judy

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Okay, this has given me some things to think about and I'll go out today and try handling some of the cameras to get a feel for them.

 

Judy, I've checked the website and there's some edge2go affiliates in my area so I'll check that out.

 

A guess another good point is whether I need to go to DSLR or just to upgrade to a ultra/super zoom digital.

 

As mentioned, the ultimate aim is to have a camera that's going to enable me to take the best photos possible of Alaska with the photography knowledge I attain over the next year. And I know my current digital camera doesn't have anywhere near the zoom capability that would be required.

 

Up to now I'm the one in the family that always takes the photos and has the camera and I don't travel without one.

 

Ideally I want to think that I'm going to start taking lots more photos, for pleasure, between family/travel events but knowing myself, I'm not sure how realistic I'm being. So maybe the super zoom might be an option along with classes in learning to use all aspects of the camera and taking better pictures (I've only ever taken pixs on automatic settings).

 

Then if I really do take it up as a hobby then down the line a few years I could go for the DSLR.

 

I guess either way, I better get out there and start getting the feel for some cameras. When I narrow the choice down, I'll post my options.

 

In the meantime, all comments are more than welcome.

 

 

Frances

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If you choose not to take the plunge into the DSLR, the superzooms often offer lots of manual controls like a DSLR, so you can learn on this and when you do take the plunge, it will be an easy transition. There are many great ones out there, but I am partial to Canon since I own one. I have the S3 IS, the newer version is the S5 IS. These take fantastic photos and have really impressive movie modes with stereo sound.

 

MAC

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...I now know how to use a lot more of the features on my Canon DSC-H7 (8 mp - 15x zoom)....

 

 

Did you know that Sony has a camera with that exact same model number?

 

So confusing!

 

Dave

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I've done some more research but haven't got out yet - Henry's seemed to have the ones I was considering but was too busy - but I'm going tomorrow night so I can make final decisions after I've handled them to see which feels best.

 

Narrowed it down though to the super zoom and was looking at

 

Canon Powershot S5

FUJI FINEPIX S8100FD

Panasonic DMCFZ18K

Sony H50

 

Then someone sent me a link to the Olympus SP-570 UZ so that's now on my list to consider.

 

I'm just praying one feels a lot better than the other then my dilemma is over otherwise I'll be back on the thread.

 

I put together this comparison chart from info from PC World website but might need some help translating it as in the case where I ask "what does these mean" I've no idea how it would impact the end result of printed photo.

 

megapixels: not a big issue as anything from 8-10 does for my needs

Resolution: they look comparable

Optical zoom: what's difference between 12 and 20?

Zoom Range: presume both min/max on all are adequate for Alaska

Hi Shutterspeed: what's impact between 2000 and 4000?

Lo shutterspeed: 1 low and 30 high - what does this mean?

wide Aperture: all seem pretty much same

telephoto aperture: range 3.5 - 8 - what does this mean?

Lens Model: presume they're all pretty good

Dimensions: this will come down to whatever fits best for me

Viewfinder: what's difference between electronic and optical

Flash Shoe: when would this be an asset?

White balance bracketing: When would this be needed or useful?

Exposure Bracketing: Again, when would I need this?

ISO: seems big difference here - can someone explain how they differ?

 

 

Thanks, again, for the input

 

Frances

1273490732_superzoomcameras.jpg.447ed38661e988d6d9c42e44d53e89d7.jpg

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I put together this comparison chart from info from PC World website but might need some help translating it as in the case where I ask "what does these mean" I've no idea how it would impact the end result of printed photo.

 

Thanks, again, for the input

 

Frances

 

megapixels: not a big issue as anything from 8-10 does for my needs

 

More than enough.

 

Resolution: they look comparable

 

If you are referring to lens resolution, they are all good with a nod to the Leica on the Panasonic and the Zeiss on the Sony.

 

Optical zoom: what's difference between 12 and 20?

 

8...

 

Ok, serious answer. The Xs refer to the ratio between the shortest focal length and the longest that the lens will extend to. A zoom that is 35mm to 350mm equivalent is a 10x zoom.

 

Zoom Range: presume both min/max on all are adequate for Alaska

 

The long end on all of them is fine. On the short end, wider is better.

 

Hi Shutterspeed: what's impact between 2000 and 4000?

 

Unlikely that you will ever see either.

 

Lo shutterspeed: 1 low and 30 high - what does this mean?

 

For long night exposures, 30 sec. may be necessary. 1 Sec. is pretty short for a longest setting.

 

wide Aperture: all seem pretty much same

Lets more light in for dim situations like ship interiors without raising the ISO sensitivity to a noisy level.

 

telephoto aperture: range 3.5 - 8 - what does this mean?

 

Most telephotos have a variable maximum aperture. It may start at f/2.8 at 35mm, but at 400mm, the maximum aperture may shrink to f/6.3 or f/8 (letting less light in). This is a limitation of the physical design of a compact long zoom.

 

Lens Model: presume they're all pretty good

As noted above.

 

Dimensions: this will come down to whatever fits best for me

 

All are pretty small. As you said, pic one that "feels" good and is easy to use.

Viewfinder: what's difference between electronic and optical

 

Electronic viewfinders (EVFs) are tiny LCD screens that display the image that the sensor sees. Optical viewfinders use a separate optical system to allow you to compose. Some (SLRs) use a moving mirror and/or prism system to divert the image from the sensor to the viewfinder except for the moment when the image is recorded.

 

Flash Shoe: when would this be an asset?

 

An accessory flash can increase the range that a flash is usable (groups and such). Built in flashes are fairly weak.

 

White balance bracketing: When would this be needed or useful?

 

In difficult light like tungsten indoor lighting, the camera will take several (usually 3) pictures in rapid sequence and adjust the color for each frame to give you a choice of the best one.

Exposure Bracketing: Again, when would I need this?

 

Same as above except that the camera adjust the exposure each time. You would use this for difficult lighting like a partly cloudy day or a room lit by a window.

ISO: seems big difference here - can someone explain how they differ?

 

ISO refers to the sensitivity of the sensor and it's ability to gather light. All of the cameras listed will do fine from the lowest setting to about ISO400 and even ISO800. Above that, none of the superzoom cameras do all that well because of their smaller sensors. You may get usable photos at ISO1600 in a pinch, but anything above that is mostly marketing and that actual pictures from very high ISO in a superzoom are unusably noisy.

 

Hope that answered a few questions.

 

Dave

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fmax, I know you orginally were considering a DSLR but now are leaning to a point and shoot. The current issue of Popular Photography ranks the basic DSLRs. THEIR ranking was: 1st Canon EOS Rebel XSi, 2nd Nikon D60, 3rd Pentax K200D (tie), 3rd Sony Alpha 350 (tie), 5th Olympus E-520. Once again this was THEIR ranking in their August issue. One other observation is I have seen many people in photography classes at my local art museum who begin the course with a point and shoot camera only to go out and buy a DSLR mid way through the course. You already have a point and shoot camera I would encourage you to step up to a DSLR and take some courses.

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Would you believe it, I just registered online with a local camera group and gave overview of where I was at and someone made exact same comment as you just a few minutes ago, that the DSLR was still worth considering as I would probably outgrow the P&S quickly.

 

I think basically once I actually go and check them all out and see what feels best - I'll consider the DSLR as well - I'll know what I want at least I'm praying the decisions is going to become that easy!!

 

 

frances

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I know what you are saying, I love my S3 IS but am feeling that I am going to out grow it soon and would like a DSLR, but right now am not willing to shell out the cash even for the entry level. Maybe next year!

 

MAC

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I know what you are saying, I love my S3 IS but am feeling that I am going to out grow it soon and would like a DSLR, but right now am not willing to shell out the cash even for the entry level. Maybe next year!

 

MAC

 

 

Brace yourself MAC... I'm looking at lenses that cost more than my camera body! :eek:

 

Then there's tripods, flash equipment, backdrops....second body.... *sigh*

 

Dave

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Brace yourself MAC... I'm looking at lenses that cost more than my camera body! :eek:

 

Then there's tripods, flash equipment, backdrops....second body.... *sigh*

 

Dave

 

I'll need a second job, and a bigger house!

 

MAC

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Would you believe it, I just registered online with a local camera group and gave overview of where I was at and someone made exact same comment as you just a few minutes ago, that the DSLR was still worth considering as I would probably outgrow the P&S quickly.

 

I think basically once I actually go and check them all out and see what feels best - I'll consider the DSLR as well - I'll know what I want at least I'm praying the decisions is going to become that easy!!

 

 

frances

 

I am finding that the manufacturers are continually making improvements on the cameras, and gearhead that I am, I want the newest, latest model. It looks like you may have a bit to learn about basic photographic terms and camera options. While you could use a DSLR on auto and get good pictures, maybe a better choice would be a long zoom point and shoot and use that to learn about exposure, aperture, shutter speed, ISO, zoom, etc. now and in the next couple years, as this camera becomes obsolete and the newest DSLRs (with features not yet envisioned) are available move up then. I think for this trip coming up, with a new camera either way, you would probably be as happy with the pics from the point & shoot as with the DSLR. Remember, flash memory is cheap compared to the price of a cruise, so take lots of pictures & try out different techniques to learn all the settings of your camera. I know lots of people lately are starting out with DSLRs, and that's fine for them, but I found it easier to learn on a less expensive (& less complicated) camera. I just bought my first DSLR in April for my recent trip to Alaska after 10 years of digital cameras and was able to figure most of it out pretty easily but I still make some dumb (things I do know but forgot to do) mistakes and some under-educated ones (things I just don't understand yet).

 

You're doing a lot of research ahead of time, which will help you make your choices once you go into the store. If you have flash memory for the camera you're looking at, take it to the store with you, put it in the camera (with salesperson's permission, so they don't think you found it there!:D ) and then you can take the shots home to look at. Also, don't trust the word of the camera salesperson - I've heard them giving people some really wrong advice, even at our local 'pro' shop (for example, that no point and shoot camera zooms more than 5x when there were a bunch of 12-18x zoom cameras sitting on the shelves.) Good luck!

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Brace yourself MAC... I'm looking at lenses that cost more than my camera body! :eek:

 

Then there's tripods, flash equipment, backdrops....second body.... *sigh*

 

Dave

 

Dave, well I was in the same group as you in this dept until I bought the Nikon D300 but before that I had a lens that cost a lot more than the body but now that lens is a great combo on the D300. Are you buying a new Sony DSLR, thought that is what you had or was it Pentax?

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Thanks everyone for all the useful input.

 

After reviewing the cameras at the store, I went for the Sony DSC H50 as it felt most comfortable.

 

Thanks again

 

 

Frances

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Dave, well I was in the same group as you in this dept until I bought the Nikon D300 but before that I had a lens that cost a lot more than the body but now that lens is a great combo on the D300. Are you buying a new Sony DSLR, thought that is what you had or was it Pentax?

 

I'm still using my Sony A700. (We share the same sensor!) It's an incredible machine and is doing what I need for now, so I'm concentrating on improving my glass. The new Zeiss and G-series lenses are pretty amazing. I'm also looking at getting a pair of studio strobes to start playing with portraiture and still-life.

 

I expect the A900 full-frame body will be pretty tempting when it comes out this fall (all but one of my lenses are full-frame), but I will probably hold out for the next generation of sensors (back-illuminated CMOS).

 

Enjoy that D300!

 

Dave

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Thanks everyone for all the useful input.

After reviewing the cameras at the store, I went for the Sony DSC H50 as it felt most comfortable.

Thanks again

Frances

 

Congratulations on the new toy, Frances. It should serve you well for just about any type of photograph you'll be taking - and you'll love having that huge 465mm equivalent optical zoom range! And the camera's got a fairly useful 31mm wide angle which should let you take interiors and other closer objects.

 

Stop by dpreview's Sony Talk Forum page (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1009) if you have any questions about the camera, the best settings, or any advice - there are alot of H50 users there who are pretty talented with cameras and can pretty well answer any question you might have and give you great tips on what settings work best for the camera.

 

And I'd encourage you to take advantage of the capabilities of the camera to learn alot more about photography - believe me, the camera can take you alot farther than just snapshots from vacations! I spent two happy years with the ancestor to your camera, the H5, and it taught me so much about photography and how to use A & S priority and manual settings to get optimal results when I needed them. Check out my galleries for some ideas of the types of photography you can do with an ultrazoom P&S - there aren't very many limitations if you take the time to learn the camera.

 

Someday, you may find yourself too limited by the camera's abilities - but I don't think that will come anytime soon. For the money, it's very hard to do any better than an ultrazoom P&S for an all-round camera! When you want to get into nighttime handheld street photography, fast-moving sports shooting, fast-moving wildlife tracking shots, and super-wide-angle architectural shots, then you'll definitely need a DSLR. Until then, enjoy great landscapes, scenics, portraits, macros, wildlife photography, night shots, candids, and more!

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