?(No) Trays in Lido

[RuthC]

I disagree. We didn't find the service on the three Vista ships that we have been on to be inferior to that found on the two S-class and one R-class ships that we have tried.

Clearly, your experience on the E-dam a couple of months after its introduction was different from that of many of us on the inaugural. I'm happy for you, and at the thought that things have really improved. :)

Those first two cruises definitely had poor service in some areas. It was absolutely not up to the level some of the same people experienced on the Rotterdam a mere five months earlier.

 

When I sailed the Prinsendam (first time on that ship) in July, '07 I was instantly impressed with the level of service. Sadly, I recalled it as how it used to be on all the HAL ships all the time. It's the small incremental slippage of standards that some of us are noticing. :(

[Terpnut]

Here's an interesting and timely article in today's Washington Post about food waste in the U.S.: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/27/AR2008112702155.html?nav=rss_nation.

 

The article emphasizes how Americans waste an astonishing 30% to 50% of our food, and goes on to specifically say how the removal of trays and the reduction of serving sizes/portions has reduced food waste at Virginia Tech's cafeterias and the MGM Grand's buffet by 38% and 20% respectively. If the cruiselines can achieve similar results, then I think the end result is worth any minor inconvenience to passengers.

[mancunian]

Forget the large plate - perhaps I am a fussy eater but I do like the items on separate smaller plates. I do expect standards to be at least as good as you have at home. A large plate for everything does not sound like a signature of excellence to me.

 

If this does come in on Rotterdam on our summer cruise I guess we will just use the dining room instead. If too many people decide this there will probably be a staffing issue in the dining room but we will have to see how it pans out. It will not stop us cruising but it could alter the way we cruise.

[Juanita462]

Minor inconvenience? I think not for a disabled passenger - and there are many on HAL ships - from scooters, wheelchairs, walkers to canes.

There just is not enough staff to help everyone - on our last cruise I only had my tray carried for me 3 times in 64 days. Not that I really needed to have it carried but it showed the lack of staff.

 

DH has neuropathy and is in pain 24/7 - so he is supposed to take several trips back and forth to get what he needs for meals when every step is like walking on nails?

 

Why can't they have both platters and trays so that everyone will be happy.

 

As for wasting food - we have only occasionally seen that on cruises.

the only time I leave food on the plate is when I ask for a very small portion of something and the server puts on 3 times as much as I would have taken for myself.

 

As for the platters - when an item is being served to you, do you hand the platter to the server? so he puts his thumb on the plate to hold it - how many hands are on that platter and how clean are those hands?

[Copper10-8]

.................. As for the platters - when an item is being served to you, do you hand the platter to the server? so he puts his thumb on the plate to hold it - how many hands are on that platter and how clean are those hands?

 

FYI, the servers/cooks on the other side of the counter on the Lido wear plastic gloves. Their thumbs are covered;)

[Terpnut]

Minor inconvenience? I think not for a disabled passenger - and there are many on HAL ships - from scooters, wheelchairs, walkers to canes.

There just is not enough staff to help everyone - on our last cruise I only had my tray carried for me 3 times in 64 days. Not that I really needed to have it carried but it showed the lack of staff.

 

DH has neuropathy and is in pain 24/7 - so he is supposed to take several trips back and forth to get what he needs for meals when every step is like walking on nails?

 

Why can't they have both platters and trays so that everyone will be happy.

 

As for wasting food - we have only occasionally seen that on cruises.

the only time I leave food on the plate is when I ask for a very small portion of something and the server puts on 3 times as much as I would have taken for myself.

 

As for the platters - when an item is being served to you, do you hand the platter to the server? so he puts his thumb on the plate to hold it - how many hands are on that platter and how clean are those hands?

While I truly sympathize with your plight, this question or thread is about a big picture issue and not about certain minorities. The reality is that food waste is greatly reduced by eliminating trays and reducing portion sizes. And providing "platters and trays so that everyone will be happy" is not feasible because the indisputable reality is that when trays are provided, a huge amount of food will be wasted. You, I and some others on this thread may not individually be wasteful, but that is largely irrelevant as MOST people will. So this is probably the environmental, economic and business motivation behind the decision to eliminate trays.

 

Again, I am not saying this decision will not negatively impact some people, or that you or others should be happy about it. What I am saying is that the decision makes good environmental and business sense, and will not inconvenience MOST people very much at all. I am very sorry if you or others feel that this would detract (or even significantly detract) from your cruise experience, but I think wasting less food, saving significant amounts of money, and other benefits of this decision are worthwhile even at the price of displeasing a small minority of folks.

[BruceMuzz]

A HAL Vista Ship produces and processes between 7 and 10 tons of waste every 24 hours.

Food waste accounts for just under 50% of that total.

[sail7seas]

FYI, the servers/cooks on the other side of the counter on the Lido wear plastic gloves. Their thumbs are covered;)

 

 

:) The plastic gloves protect him from germs but that same plastic gloved thumb touches our plates, one after the other. That plastic glove does not protect US from germs.

 

He takes the plate from the person ahead of me in line (you know, the one with NLV who ignored quarantie instructions and has been holding his plate with his bare *dirty* harnds). Now, Mr. Server with the plastic glove behind the buffet counter takes my plate and puts his thumb on my plate. Then he proceeds to hand it back to me.

 

He's safe enough from germs as, afterall, he has on a plastic glove.

 

Now, let's think about how safe from germs my plate is. :eek: ???/ !###$E#@#$#E

[Terpnut]

A HAL Vista Ship produces and processes between 7 and 10 tons of waste every 24 hours.

Food waste accounts for just under 50% of that total.

Wow! So based on your figures, this means that food waste accounts for 3.5-5.0 tons of waste per day. Let's say that half of that is wasted in the Lido (i.e. not dining room and other venues) so there is 1.75-2.5 tons of food waste from the Lido each day. So if eliminating trays in the Lido conservatively reduces food waste by say 30%, then that's over half of a ton of food we save every day just by eliminating trays!? And if Lido food waste is reduced by 50%, then that's about one ton of food saved daily! :eek:

 

Also, if we estimate the cost of buying, transporting, storing, preparing, serving, and disposing of that 3-7 tons of food for a typical 7-day cruise, we could probably reduce cruise fares by a significant amount! :)

[Copper10-8]

I really don't understand the need for multiple trips. At least on RCI ships, all that food fits nicely on one single large plate, and one only needs to make a second trip for beverages which are at a completely different station near your seating areas anyway. So two trips max per person. And if you have two or more in your party, one person can go get multiple drinks for the rest.

 

Perhaps my own lack of understanding and confusion on this issue is because: (1) HAL uses small plates?, and/or (2) HAL doesn't have conveniently located food and drink "stations" in the Lido? If HAL does use small plates, I would hope that, if they get rid of trays, that they'd use the RCI-sized plates.

 

The way the Lido operation runs at the moment, you don't select your own plate because they are not put out "in the open" for you to select. The only place on a dam ship where you have the opportunity to select your own plate is at the window of the Terrace Grill on that same deck but on the other side of the Lido Pool. OK, so there is a steward at the beginning of the "food line" who's job it is to place serving trays on the public counter. If you luck out, you'll get a steward like Hunky Dory or John Wayne but that's a different story. Ok, on that tray, he also places a small plate and a bowl and that, as the story goes, is it. The rest is up to you and I as passengers as we, with a smile on our face and a heartfelt "Terima Kasih" to said steward take temporary possession of said tray and step off in order to commence the subsequent shuffle down the feeding line. We accomplish this by pushing said tray at relatively slow speed down the counter, taking extreme care and caution not to collide with the tray in front of us which, btw, is traveling in the same direction and/or to impede traffic behind us by moving too slow for the prevailing conditions. You see, doing the latter causes choke points, something HAL is apparently attempting to avoid by elliminating said trays, the volatile topic of this thread.

For breakfast, fine folks use that bowl and that small plate to place food items such as cold cereal boxes, bread rolls, cold cuts, fruits, including the always ever popular prunes:eek:, on and in. When the shuffle, not to be mistaken by the shuttle, arrives at the first "hot" food station manned and ready by a hard-working Filipino cook (usually, sometimes a similarly hard-working Indonesian steward), the pax, in a friendly tone of voice, with a respectful please at the end, and not in a manner that treats said cook as their peronal man servant, advises them what their little heart desires. In return, said cook/server will then select a plate...........Ahaaa, that's where those bad boys are kept, and will place the desired food items of choice on them. Depending if the pax desires additional nurishment from that particular station, he, said cook/server, will either hand you your plate over the counter or will pass it on to a colleague at an adjacent station. If that happens, our brain has now been trained to shuffle on in an orderly fashion to the end of the line and/or step out of said line giving the appropriate warning signals as we do so.

Now then, the plates that are currently used are not the dinner plate size, I would call them lunch plates but I am an ignorant slob when it comes to the correct terminology:o. I do know those metal toppers that are supposed to keep the contents hot while you and I attempt to find a vacant seat with a nice ocean view (or parking lot/container platform if berthed) Beverage stations for coffee/tea and water are located near the end of each line but more in the center on the "S" and "R" ships and all the way in the center on the Vista's and that "floating disaster:rolleyes:", the Eurodam. In addition, there are separate and smaller "take it yourself counter" stations for assorted juices and the stuff that comes from cows. Btw, always wondering who the individual was who first looked at a cow and thought to him/herself "Now then, I think I'll start pulling on them appendages hanging underneath that animal and drink whatever comes out of it:eek:"

[Copper10-8]

:) The plastic gloves protect him from germs but that same plastic gloved thumb touches our plates, one after the other. That plastic glove does not protect US from germs.

 

He takes the plate from the person ahead of me in line (you know, the one with NLV who ignored quarantie instructions and has been holding his plate with his bare *dirty* harnds). Now, Mr. Server with the plastic glove behind the buffet counter takes my plate and puts his thumb on my plate. Then he proceeds to hand it back to me.

 

He's safe enough from germs as, afterall, he has on a plastic glove.

 

Now, let's think about how safe from germs my plate is. :eek: ???/ !###$E#@#$#E

 

Hey, quit attempting to prick my balloon deflating same in the process!

[sail7seas]

Hey, quit attempting to prick my balloon deflating same in the process!

 

 

:D So sorry, Senor!!! ;)

[jtl513]

Clearly, your experience on the E-dam a couple of months after its introduction was different from that of many of us on the inaugural. I'm happy for you, and at the thought that things have really improved. :)

I didn't say that. I said

We didn't find the service on the three Vista ships that we have been on to be inferior to that found on the two S-class and one R-class ships that we have tried.

My 2nd paragraph, which you didn't quote, said

However, I do believe that the Eurodam was a bit understaffed on our short cruise in October. That is something that can be remedied, and may have already been remedied.

That implies that I too found the Eurodam service in Oct to be lacking in some areas.

 

I was disagreeing with Rita's contention that the size of the ship necessarily impacts on service. :)

[RuthC]

Sorry that I misread your post, John. Guess I should ask for my money back on that speedreading course. :rolleyes:

But I do think the size of the ship makes a difference in service levels. Even assuming the same staff to passener ratio, it's easier for staff to get to know fewer passengers better. It's so much easier for one steward to learn the preferences of 20 passengers than for five stewards to learn what 100 passengers want---even though the ratio is the same.

When I was on the Prinsendam I pleasantly remembered the days on other HAL ships when I would enter a lounge, the steward caught my eye, and he went off to get my preferred drink without even getting near me. :)

[RevNeal]

Clearly, your experience on the E-dam a couple of months after its introduction was different from that of many of us on the inaugural. I'm happy for you, and at the thought that things have really improved. :)

Those first two cruises definitely had poor service in some areas. It was absolutely not up to the level some of the same people experienced on the Rotterdam a mere five months earlier.

 

Ruth is absolutely correct. The differences in service between the Rotterdam in January and the Eurodam in July were as night and day in comparison ... and in saying this I am making allowances for the fact that the Eurodam was a brand new ship with a crew that was still getting used to working together and with the particularities of a new ship. True, there were elements of service and certain stewards and staffers who did an excellent job -- well up to HAL norms -- but they were stretched to the limit and one could tell by just watching them in operation that they were overwhelmed by the load they were being asked to carry. Additionally, there were some staff members who were just terrible ... apparently new people who were rushed through the SS Jakarta without sufficient training to the HAL standard ... and their fumbling mistakes and constant errors generated far more work that had to be re-done than those who knew what to do could handle. Adele's cabin steward comes to mind in this regard, as do several members of the Front Desk staff.

[pipedreams62]

Wow! So based on your figures, this means that food waste accounts for 3.5-5.0 tons of waste per day. Let's say that half of that is wasted in the Lido (i.e. not dining room and other venues) so there is 1.75-2.5 tons of food waste from the Lido each day. So if eliminating trays in the Lido conservatively reduces food waste by say 30%, then that's over half of a ton of food we save every day just by eliminating trays!? And if Lido food waste is reduced by 50%, then that's about one ton of food saved daily! :eek:

 

Also, if we estimate the cost of buying, transporting, storing, preparing, serving, and disposing of that 3-7 tons of food for a typical 7-day cruise, we could probably reduce cruise fares by a significant amount! :)

 

 

Now there are even more questions.

 

With all this waste,maybe the food tastes like swill,but then again people are lined up to get it? Isn't the food delicious and scrumptious that there would be very little waste?

 

 

Hey wait a minute I just had a brainstorm,how about each passenger just eats what they take,that would also eliminate waste?

[RevNeal]

While I truly sympathize with your plight, this question or thread is about a big picture issue and not about certain minorities. The reality is that food waste is greatly reduced by eliminating trays and reducing portion sizes. And providing "platters and trays so that everyone will be happy" is not feasible because the indisputable reality is that when trays are provided, a huge amount of food will be wasted. You, I and some others on this thread may not individually be wasteful, but that is largely irrelevant as MOST people will. So this is probably the environmental, economic and business motivation behind the decision to eliminate trays.

 

Again, I am not saying this decision will not negatively impact some people, or that you or others should be happy about it. What I am saying is that the decision makes good environmental and business sense, and will not inconvenience MOST people very much at all. I am very sorry if you or others feel that this would detract (or even significantly detract) from your cruise experience, but I think wasting less food, saving significant amounts of money, and other benefits of this decision are worthwhile even at the price of displeasing a small minority of folks.

 

I understand what you're saying ... I truly do. And, I'm certain that for the larger percentage of passengers on the Vista ships this is not going to be any kind of a physical problem. However, just stating the "facts" of this case and the reasoning behind the decision to move this direction doesn't do ANYTHING to address the REAL and PRESENT concerns of a significant percentage of HAL's fleet-wide passenger base which suffer from mobility issues. Let's be blunt: HAL has a very large senior-citizen passenger base, and many of them are going to have valid concerns with their ability to negotiate this system. It doesn't help for you to just marginalize their concerns by saying that this thread is about the "big picture" and, thereby, imply that their concerns can just be ignored. Given the nature of the Line's product, and the fact that it is an industry that prides itself on excellence in its service, HAL will have to address these concerns if/when this new system is implemented on more and more ships.

 

So, rather than just dismissing their concerns, I'd like to see you speculate regarding how HAL might proactively address them. Remember, just ignoring them or pretending that they don't exist isn't an option. What will HAL do to enable the sizable percentage of their elderly and infirm passenger base to cope with this change? Providing trays to allow the limited number of staff members -- or, alternatively, a small number of able bodied fellow passengers who are traveling with infirm passengers -- to easily transport more two plates at a time is a viable suggestion that shouldn't be summarily dismissed. What other options to address their concerns either exist or could be tried?

[CaveDiving]

We got off a 65 day cruise on the Amsterdam this week and there definately were trays in the Lido.

 

Without trays, how do you get your food to the table?

 

Scott & Karen

[Gator83]

If someone does not like not having a tray then they should go to the dining room. Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty. Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.

 

Can't people just go on the cruise and not complain about stuff? Just go with the flow people.

 

Happy Cruising.

[RevNeal]

If someone does not like not having a tray then they should go to the dining room. Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty. Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.

 

If I were to post this statement, swapping out the particulars with objections to the dress code, and were I to conclude it with: "If someone doesn't like the dress code they shouldn't go on a cruise; find another way to vacation." I would be hounded off this board and to the end of time.

 

In other words, remarks like this don't help.

[RevNeal]

If this does come in on Rotterdam on our summer cruise I guess we will just use the dining room instead. If too many people decide this there will probably be a staffing issue in the dining room but we will have to see how it pans out. It will not stop us cruising but it could alter the way we cruise.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about it ... the Rotterdam's Lido isn't (yet) configured to enable this kind of operation. I would expect that they'll still have trays on the Rotterdam next summer. Perhaps not after the dry docking which following my October 31, 2009 TA crossing on her, though.

[kyriecat]

Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty. Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.

This is one of the most unenlightened statements I have ever read. My mom is in a wheelchair and has been on 5 cruises so far. There is nothing wrong with people in wheelchairs taking cruises. Yes it requires more planning and can have difficult moments, but saying they shouldn't cruise at all is ludicrous. :mad: I think you need a reality check. I won't say anymore because I want to call you some words that are not acceptable.

[kryos]

Let's be blunt: HAL has a very large senior-citizen passenger base, and many of them are going to have valid concerns with their ability to negotiate this system.

I don't think there is a "majority" of elderly and infirm passengers on the shorter Vista ship-type cruises, Rev. And, when you do have them, I think in most cases they are traveling with their families and could easily get the extra help they need. They are probably getting it now with the trays.

 

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this idea, but if there's good reason for it ... sanitation, minimizing waste, etc., then I understand that HAL has to take these cost-saving measures and just eliminate the trays. If it becomes too much of a hassle for someone elderly or infirm to get through the Lido line without a tray, then I guess I would have to say that probably their best bet is to avoid the Lido altogether and just eat in the dining room, or order room service to their cabin.

 

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic here ... but I just don't see this as that big of a problem. I don't think passengers would be expected to juggle multiple plates. I am willing to bet that the basic plate will be bigger ... with sections for various food items ... and the plate would simply take the place of a tray. There may even be a spot on the plate designed to hold a drink.

 

If a passenger can carry a tray now, they should easily be able to carry their plate too. And, if they do have some problems, there are plenty of stewards to assist them in finding a table and getting everything to that table.

 

I can well understand that HAL needs to economize, and food waste is probably a big contributor to excessive costs. The trays will probably minimize that problem and that may be why they are going that route.

 

As I said, I'll reserve my opinions until I've seen the new procedure in action and see exactly how it works. It may actually be no different from what we are used to now ... it's just that the larger plates, minus tray, will force people to take smaller portions and then go back for more if they are still hungry.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

If someone does not like not having a tray then they should go to the dining room. Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty. Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.

The first part of your statement, I can agree with. The second part was just plain cruel.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[pipedreams62]