I need some serious advice!!

[RevNeal]

mom2threecuties,

 

I'm not a lawyer, just a "man of the cloth," however I would like to echo much of the advice and the suggestions that have been articulated already on this thread. HAL-Corporate really needs to be held to their word on this and not allowed to wiggle out; from what I've read from several people, and from what you've said, it does indeed sound like a Breach of Contract on HAL's part. I would hope that HAL would settle it properly, but if they need to be taken to court to make them do so, then so be it. They should honor the full per-person credit originally given, regardless of wether or not it was a typo on their part.

[RevNeal]

Yes, it is. But that's the whole point of small claims court. You don't need a lawyer to take a case there. Filing a claim is pretty easy, and when your court date arrives just make sure you have your evidence in hand.

 

In actuality, though, I have a feeling HAL wouldn't let it go as far as an actual hearing. It's not worth it to them. Their legal department is tied up on far more important issues to mess with something like this. Once they see that you are serious, and are willing to fight for your credit, they will probably cave and just give it to you ... or perhaps be willing to give your parents the balcony cabin that you requested.

 

Correct. It would be in their best interest, both legally and in terms of PR, for them to settle out of court. HAL has had several bad PR breaks as of late, and it doesn't help that they tend to have major "foot-in-mouth" disease.

[marle7]

I In all the times I have read these boards, I have never seen compensation that high. .

 

 

We once had a disasterous cruise on Brilliance. Royal Caribbean offered us a future cruise credit of $1,000 each, which meant $3,000 since there were three of us. Plus they refunded some monies spent in Chops. So it can happen.

[Moeve]

Even if it was a typo they signed it and sent it out....... That is their problem because if you make a typo and pay them 250,- USD instead of 2500,- USD you bet they are going to want the rest tooo!!!

 

However HAL does have a reputation of not standing by their mistakes. A while back folks bought cheap cruises which were also based on a typo and HAL insisted on getting the full real price or cancelling the pax.

 

Therefore iuf you really want to pursue it the best way will be to allow a judge at the small claims court to decide because HAL probably won't budge - knowing they are on the longer handle.

[Yankeeclipper1957]

Not a lawyer.

 

You stated : My mom got out of bed to use the restroom and stepped onto a sopping wet floor. Raw sewage had flooded their stateroom. They called for help, and stood in the hallway (in their pajamas, after midnight, for more than an hour until help arrived). Their luggage, which had been stored under their bed, was ruined. They were moved to an empty cabin which had no air conditioning or telephone service for the duration of the cruise“”.

 

I see the issues of stepping into raw sewage, health risk, destroyed luggage, public embarrassment as major factor - additionally further breach of service contract - no air, telephone etc. I think your point should be, the letter, rather than convincing your parents to give HAL another try - receiving the letter from HAL as it was transmitted caused your parents to stop any further action against HAL. What if HAL did that as a tactic to stop any action or publicity about the incident then after time has gone by, recanted, so the story is stale? The letter was received in good faith and a reasonable and prudent person could assume that as adequate compensation for all they went through.

 

Anyway all things for a small claims judge to ponder. They (HAL) have to bring their lawyers you bring yourself. It’s the only court forum the judge expects you to be at a disadvantage (professionally) and gives you the most leeway.

[FL_Cruiser64]

Hi everyone. I'm trying to help my parents with a HAL situation and thought I'd come to my trusty RCCL board for input. This is really long, and I apologize in advance :)

 

Earlier this year my parents took a European cruise on HAL. They encountered some significant problems during their cruise.

 

My mom got out of bed to use the restroom and stepped onto a sopping wet floor. Raw sewage had flooded their stateroom. They called for help, and stood in the hallway (in their pajamas, after midnight, for more than an hour until help arrived). Their luggage, which had been stored under their bed, was ruined. They were moved to an empty cabin which had no air conditioning or telephone service for the duration of the cruise. The a/c was definitely an issue, and the phone was also an issue, as they were traveling with another couple and couldn't keep in contact.

 

They also encountered some insignificant problems. For Mother's Day/Father's Day, I had purchased a wine card for my mom and dinner for two at the Pinnacle Grill for my dad. I had informed my mom of my dad's gift, and my dad of my mom's. I'm glad I did, because the gifts were never delivered to their cabin. On the fourth day of the cruise, they realized the problem and visited customer service to sort it out. If they hadn't known about the gifts, they would never have received the items I paid for.

 

So, they returned from their trip and told me about their issues. I suggested they write a letter to the president of HAL, and they did. They received a very nice letter in return. In this letter the rep said that they had verified that all of the issues had occurred. They offered an apology and an credit of $2580 pp toward a future sailing.

 

Fast forward - My parents booked another European cruise for 2009. They booked an inside cabin with a fare of $3999 pp. They called HAL to apply the credit, and were told that the letter had a typo and it should have read $250 pp, not $2580 pp. Given that they had been offered a substantial cruise credit, they're pretty upset that it is now being effectively rescinded. They're currently sailing on the Jewel of the Seas (and loving it!!), so I told them I'd try to get this sorted out while they were gone.

 

I called Clark Howard's office (a big consumer advocate in Atlanta) and was told that they should go to small claims court. They said that any judge would side with my parents, given that they have a signed letter of credit on HAL letterhead. I checked with a friend who's an attorney, and she told me that this would be considered breach of contract. I've called the HAL rep three times over the past week and a half, and never received a return phone call. I called again today and spoke to a different rep. He was very nice, but he refused to offer the original letter, and said that he wasn't allowed to give me a contact in their legal dept. He then offered a 'four category upgrade'. I told him that I'd communicate his offer to my parents and get back to him.

 

As soon as we got off the phone, I looked up the deck plans. A four category upgrade is an interior to interior upgrade. I called him back and left him a message saying 'no deal'. He called me back within minutes and offered an eight category upgrade, which is an oceanview on deck two. I asked for a balcony, and he said he couldn't do that. I told him I'd get back to him. The difference in cruise fare from their original booking is $830pp.

 

What would you do? Just to make it clear, if my parents had originally received a letter offering an apology and a $250pp credit, they would have been fine. It's just that they were offered $2580, and it just doesn't seem right for a cruise line to just say 'Oops, we made a mistake' and offer 10% of the original credit.

 

Thanks for any input!

 

Tricia

 

I am sure it was typo. $2500 on cruise credit or discounts its almost unheard of. But since they given you a signed letter they have to stand by it. In my opinion it really becomes obsolete if it is a type or not and who did it. You have a signed letter and I would go for it.

[want2seaitall]

I would file in small claims court. You won't need to hire an attorney and I have a feeling the cruise line will settle as soon as they are made aware of the claim. They won't want it to go any further.

 

They will lose. This is a typo that is going to cost them a lot of money...if you file a claim.

 

Let us know the outcome.

[Tampa Girl]

As an attorney, I would suggest that your parents taking advantage of a local attorney's free consultation (surely there must be some around in your parents' community), and get advice as to where a small claims suit can be filed against HAL. At least in Florida, this would be a small claims matter (under $15,000), and no attorney is needed. I think that HAL might be on the line for this one.

[Kim4]

Not a lawyer.

 

I think your point should be, the letter, rather than convincing your parents to give HAL another try - receiving the letter from HAL as it was transmitted caused your parents to stop any further action against HAL. What if HAL did that as a tactic to stop any action or publicity about the incident then after time has gone by, recanted, so the story is stale? The letter was received in good faith and a reasonable and prudent person could assume that as adequate compensation for all they went through.

 

 

That is an excellent point. The letter (with or without typo) caused your parents to stop any further action. It would be a pretty good racket for them to promise the world to irate customers and then after a bit of time, recant and tell them that they only get 10% of what they offered.

[truffles2]

OK, first let me say that I am definitely not an attorney and I hope that someone who IS one will clarify this. What I do have is some past experience with "small claims court" from a medical office standpoint. While it is true that you do not need an attorney and will probably win a judgment, all you have in the end is a judgment. It does not mean that it will ever be satisfied.

[Mary Ellen]

First - HAL should live up to the letter they sent. NO question.

 

Second - Having cruised on HAL a good number of times, I do remember seeing in the cruise contract that all cases must be adjudicated in Seattle, corporate home to HAL.

 

Third - We have friends who have done that Voyage of the Vikings cruise (one person more than once). I don't know if your parents are doing the full 34-days or the partial of 17, but from what our friends say it is wonderful!

 

Good luck. Hopefully this will be brought to the attention of someone in Seattle who will do the right thing and resolve it quickly.

[Ggrrl1]

My questioning whether you could get personal jurisdiction derives from the fact that most small claims courts have limited geographic jurisdiction. In New York, where I practice, the person sued, in this case, HAL, must have an office in the county in which the court sits (there are some nuances, but this is the basic rule). The other states in which I am licensed have similar rules.

 

If you choose to go the small claims court way, your best source of information is usually the court clerks. Ask them nicely and they will usually tell you the best way to get service, etc. It can be a lot of time and stress to go through the process, but you can get some pretty good results. I still say that if you can contact a higher up at HAL, you may get good results with less stress.

[isles1]

My questioning whether you could get personal jurisdiction derives from the fact that most small claims courts have limited geographic jurisdiction. In New York, where I practice, the person sued, in this case, HAL, must have an office in the county in which the court sits (there are some nuances, but this is the basic rule). The other states in which I am licensed have similar rules.

 

If you choose to go the small claims court way, your best source of information is usually the court clerks. Ask them nicely and they will usually tell you the best way to get service, etc. It can be a lot of time and stress to go through the process, but you can get some pretty good results. I still say that if you can contact a higher up at HAL, you may get good results with less stress.

So, to use NY as an example, are you saying that the Long Arm Jurisdiction rules in the NY CPLR do not apply to NY Small Claims courts? I, too, practice in NY, but am not familiar with Small Claims proceedure. It seems silly to limit the ability of a small claim, as the letter and several phone calls from HAL to the OP (had he/she/they resided in NY) likely would have been enough to get personal jurisdiction over HAL in a NY court (well, at least Supreme Court).

 

Anyway, the advice above is good advice: Consult the clerk at your local Small Claims court to see what you can do. Most small claims cases against laarge companies result in a judgment for the plaintiff as a result of the default (failure to appear) by the defendant. But as stated elsewhere in this thread, it is just a judgment.

 

Personally, I'd push for the balcony upgrade and casually make note of your willingness to file a claim and take your story to the media and or consumer relations groups.

 

And although this may be a breach of contract, there is the potential for the defense of mistake, in that your parents should have know the $2,580 figure was too large and could not have reasonably relied on it. I'm not saying that's what I think; I'm just presenting the other side.

[RevNeal]

I am sure it was typo. $2500 on cruise credit or discounts its almost unheard of. But since they given you a signed letter they have to stand by it. In my opinion it really becomes obsolete if it is a type or not and who did it. You have a signed letter and I would go for it.

 

I have heard of such on HAL before ... particularly when the mishap/malfunction/problem has forced a relocation to a significantly lower category of cabin and/or destroyed personal effects. Also, on a European Cruise $2500 pp could be, depending upon the itinerary and category of cabin, only a fraction of the actual cost of the cabin. I was aboard the Eurodam for her 23-day Inaugurals in an outside G category cabin. I paid roughly $2500 pp for each of the two 10-day segments and about $800 pp for the 3-day prelude segment. I know quite a few, however, who were booked in VA/B outside cabins (with verandah) who paid closer to $5000 pp for just a single 10-day segment.

[AAL]

If I was in this situation, my next step would be to send a certified letter to the cruise line requesting that they honor the credit on the cruise that has been booked (and enclose a copy of the letter specifying the amount of the credit). Sometimes letters get more attention -- or get attention from the right people -- than do phone calls or e-mails.

[firefly333]

I worked disputes for American Express. I know it doesnt seem like we could do much, but we often worked cases for hundreds of thousands of dollars, you might be surprised. As we were used to negotiating these things we could get results that often you couldnt get. I often thought to myself other times they needed a lawyer (for instance moving cases, where stuff was damaged en route and you had signed away your rights to get to your stuff).

 

What your parents could have done when they had to make the payment for the cruise was call their credit card company and dispute the charge IN WRITING WITH A COPY OF THE LETTER FROM THE CRUISELINE ATTACHED.

 

I am aware how much easier it is to call in a dispute, but sending the letter with your letter in writing is just more effective, and type it (its very hard to read a copy of a hand written letter on the computer). No highlighting, it doesnt show up on the computer copies.

 

Everyone hired when I was hired has at least a undergraduate degree, I have a MBA. We could be your advocate and put a little more pressure on the merchant than you might be able to do on your own. Wouldnt cost you more than the stamp. It would take a couple of months to get the ball rolling (personal disputes are allowed by law to take 3 complete billing cycles, plus the extra billing days until your statement cuts). Higher dollar disputes usually take precidence over smaller under $100 type disputes.

 

Just a thought how you could handle this without going to court.

[hulamoon]

Can we help? We could send a letter with our dissapointment to hear HAL does not stand by it's word? Possibly listing the past and future cruises booked?

[carlabob]

Mom2ThreeCuties,

 

 

Your dilemma has been picked up on over @ the HAL board. You might consider posting there, as well.

 

 

While many of the HAL listers are certainly loyal to HAL (based on interaction w/her crew & their service), they won't be without sympathy to your parent's situation. I think we can all picture ourselves in their shoes. The official communication from HAL, having been issued by someone presumably acting in a capacity to offer such a credit, should be honored without question. If HAL has an issue with the amount of the credit, they should take it up internally with the individual who authorized it.

 

 

At this point, since it is yourself who is dealing directly with HAL, as opposed to your parents, who are the wronged parties, it might not be taken as seriously as it should be, no matter how diligently you're trying. Since all of the communication from your end has been verbal, I would take that next step of communicating in written form.

 

I don't know if you have a family attorney, but it's been my experience that family attorneys will sometimes be willing to write a letter on behalf of the family member for little cost. (I guess it would depend on the extent of the relationship, but it's worth a try.) In any case, I would try a certified letter to HAL HQ's legal department as well as their Customer Service department. All the better if it is on an attorney's letterhead.

I wish you & your parents the best of luck & a successful conclusion.

[fun*n*sun]

I don't know HAL's original intent here, but I believe that there is a law regarding "typos" and things of that nature where the company is not held liable if they have evidence that it was a typo. If the person typing the letter had accidentally held the 0 key a second too long and made a typo for $258000 or something similar I'm sure you wouldn't expect them to be held to that.

 

Considering they stayed on the cruise, had a cabin, ate the food, visited all the ports, had entertainment etc a credit of over $2500 would be very unusual and HAL probably wouldn't have a difficult time showing that it was not what was intended. Personally I think $250 pretty stingy considering their luggage was ruined and all, but HAL has apparently offered another $800 or so in upgrades, so that's something.

[mom2threecuties]

Was there a replacement for the luggage, ruined clothes and credit for the downgrade they recieved on the cruise? It is not as if a wave of ocean water washed into the room, it was their poor plumbing.

 

I think they had a nightmare scenerio, in one the early Eurodam cruises a cruise critic member had a similar situation and she mentioned she was taken care of, maybe it is worth going through those early posts or googling them and contacting her as to how it was resolved.

 

I know you are busy but I bet a few people may be interested in knowing that room number!

 

Good luck, I hope HAL realized the longer these situations go on the less the resolution is satisfactory.

 

 

I'll find out the cabin number when my parents return from their Jewel cruise. I searched for the Eurodam post - thanks!

[mom2threecuties]

mom2threecuties,

 

I'm not a lawyer, just a "man of the cloth," however I would like to echo much of the advice and the suggestions that have been articulated already on this thread. HAL-Corporate really needs to be held to their word on this and not allowed to wiggle out; from what I've read from several people, and from what you've said, it does indeed sound like a Breach of Contract on HAL's part. I would hope that HAL would settle it properly, but if they need to be taken to court to make them do so, then so be it. They should honor the full per-person credit originally given, regardless of wether or not it was a typo on their part.

 

Thanks so much for your input. I read through some of your posts and see that you've had some issues on a HAL sailing as well. I was also hoping that HAL would step up, but it doesn't look like they're going to.

 

Thanks!

Tricia

[mom2threecuties]

Not a lawyer.

 

You stated : My mom got out of bed to use the restroom and stepped onto a sopping wet floor. Raw sewage had flooded their stateroom. They called for help, and stood in the hallway (in their pajamas, after midnight, for more than an hour until help arrived). Their luggage, which had been stored under their bed, was ruined. They were moved to an empty cabin which had no air conditioning or telephone service for the duration of the cruise“”.

 

I see the issues of stepping into raw sewage, health risk, destroyed luggage, public embarrassment as major factor - additionally further breach of service contract - no air, telephone etc. I think your point should be, the letter, rather than convincing your parents to give HAL another try - receiving the letter from HAL as it was transmitted caused your parents to stop any further action against HAL. What if HAL did that as a tactic to stop any action or publicity about the incident then after time has gone by, recanted, so the story is stale? The letter was received in good faith and a reasonable and prudent person could assume that as adequate compensation for all they went through.

 

Anyway all things for a small claims judge to ponder. They (HAL) have to bring their lawyers you bring yourself. It’s the only court forum the judge expects you to be at a disadvantage (professionally) and gives you the most leeway.

 

You're absolutely correct. I hadn't thought of it that way.

[mom2threecuties]

I am sure it was typo. $2500 on cruise credit or discounts its almost unheard of. But since they given you a signed letter they have to stand by it. In my opinion it really becomes obsolete if it is a type or not and who did it. You have a signed letter and I would go for it.

 

 

I would think they need to stand by their signed letter as well. Thanks!

[mom2threecuties]

Yes, it is. But that's the whole point of small claims court. You don't need a lawyer to take a case there. Filing a claim is pretty easy, and when your court date arrives just make sure you have your evidence in hand.

 

In actuality, though, I have a feeling HAL wouldn't let it go as far as an actual hearing. It's not worth it to them. Their legal department is tied up on far more important issues to mess with something like this. Once they see that you are serious, and are willing to fight for your credit, they will probably cave and just give it to you ... or perhaps be willing to give your parents the balcony cabin that you requested.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Thanks Rita. My husband has a good friend who is an attorney. He's looking over everything for us :)

[mom2threecuties]

First - HAL should live up to the letter they sent. NO question.

 

Second - Having cruised on HAL a good number of times, I do remember seeing in the cruise contract that all cases must be adjudicated in Seattle, corporate home to HAL.

 

Third - We have friends who have done that Voyage of the Vikings cruise (one person more than once). I don't know if your parents are doing the full 34-days or the partial of 17, but from what our friends say it is wonderful!

 

Good luck. Hopefully this will be brought to the attention of someone in Seattle who will do the right thing and resolve it quickly.

 

 

Thanks for your input. I hope it gets resolved to their satisfaction. My parents are very excited about the itinerary; it's really unique. I think it may be the only sailing in 2009.