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Alert Lifeboat drill participants


matondo

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I've never understood why people insist on taking the drills so lightly. I've been on enough cruises to know how to put that lifejacket on in 10 seconds, and figure out where my lifeboat is and what the emergency lighting is, but I still take it seriously - you have to.

 

The whistle thing never ceases to amaze me either - probably the same people who dip their fingers in the sauces in the lido to 'test them'! ;)

 

I have been on 2 gay charters on HAL and have never experienced anyone blowing on the whistles. What is that about? People may show up in funny outfits but still seem to take the drill seriously,

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I wish HAL would use a different method for their muster drills rather that mustering at the assigned station on the open deck. The alternative method, used by Princess, Celebrity, and others, is to muster in a designated lounge. That probably wouldn't improve passenger behavior but it would be more comfortable and practical.

 

In an emergency you are going to revert to 'defaualt' behaviour. By having you go to your assigned lifeboat during the drill you are more likely to go there in an emergency.

 

I read the report on that ship that had the big fire in 2006. The crew had great difficulty accounting for all the pasengers because of the number of people in the lounges. If everybody had been at a lifeboat station then each lifeboat crew could find out who is missing more easily.

 

One thing that I would suggest is that RFID chips be placed in each lifejacket and each lifeboat have a battery powered RFID scanner. That way you can account for everybody who grabbed their assigned lifejacket instantly and only need to do a roll call for those people without their assigned lifejackets.

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The bottom line:

1. Lifeboat drills are mandatory and are for our safety! If they don't hold them, the lines can and will be heavily fined! Cruise lines, the U.S. Coast Guard, foreign coast guards/maritime agencies, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and the International Council of Cruise Lines (ICCL) all work together to establish safety and training standards for cruise ships.

2. They are not for our (the passenger's) amusement and are not a social event and/or gathering!

3. The ship's photographers and the video guy should not be there! Their presence detracts from the seriousness of the event BUT is not a reason to start acting like a bunch of fifteen-year olds. Someone in Seattle and at the other line's corporate offices, probably figured out that we passengers spend money to buy those pics 'cause they "look like so much fun" so there's $$ to be made!

4. There is ample warning (PA announcements at 45, 30 and 15 minutes prior to the drill commencing, an entry in the Daily Program, TV's set to the channel that has the drill playing when you enter your cabin, etc) to know to be present at your station by the usual time of 4:15 PM. Don't wait for the alarm to be sounded to start shuffling off. Be on time and in the right place! You will find the location of your correct muster station on the inside of your door! You see, there is a nice schematic drawing in stunning and vivid color on the inside of your cabin door with important info on where to go and what route to take. In addition, there are traffic directors on each stairway landing that will tell you where to go. If you don't know how to put on your vest correctly, there is a complete illustration on "how to get her done" in the "from the captain" booklet in your cabin. Don't carry your vest in your hands on your way down or up to your muster station! Either you or someone else will trip over your dragging straps, guaranteed!

5. Most lifeboat captains will take your cabin number down when you walk up (they do that by looking at your cabin # stencilled on your vest - they are smart cookies, those lifeboat captains, have had all kinds of training and will have done it a zillion times). If they don't catch your number when you're inbound because of the sea of humanitity suddenly coming out of the woodworks at 4:19 PM (and later), they will catch it when they take roll.............IF, you happen to be paying attention at that time and are not flapping your lips and jaws when you are asked to be quiet! I understand, not everybody will know how to correctly put on his/her lifevest, especially when you're not an exerienced cruiser - those straps and the knot through the loop, tying it all in a nice butterfly knot in front can give anyone problems! Give it your best shot but pretty please.........watch them straps and try putting the vest on with the cabin number on the outside! When you arrive at your station, your life boat (captain) assistants will give you a hand, guaranteed!

6. The cruise director (and usually the captain after him because certain folks just have to continue joking and coking) will ask (sometimes more than once out of necessity) for "silence on deck". That means no talking, blowing whistles, snapping pics, you name it! Just be nice and quiet for all of 15-20 minutes. (I'm talking about the time period between your LB captain taking roll/muster, the cruise director first getting on the PA, him reading off his schpiel about the drill itself, and the captain excusing everybody. Is it too much asked to remain quiet for that period? Partying will commence shortly after, o doubt about it!

7. Comfortable? No, it's not, especially for those who are elderly or mobility impaired (go to the Front Office beforehand and let them know!) but guess what? It's not supposed to be comfortable. If it was, there would be lots of Firefighter-style;) recliners/lazy boys on deck and the staff would be serving wine, champagne and hors d'oeuvres while we are waiting. Like someone else already posted, the real thing, God forbid it ever would happen (but it has) won't be a day at the beach either, let alone several of your fellow passengers running around with their respective heads cut off in a state of panic! Besides, the longer people feel the need to continue talking, the longer the drill will take and the more uncomfortable it will become.

8. The argument about holding the drill inside in the Casino (So you can go to the bathroom :eek:----------- No, you go to the bathroom before the drill! Heck, you know it's coming so be prepared and have your caca together!) versus outside at your muster station has been made before. I prefer the way HAL does it so I know where my muster station is, I know what number it is and I know how to get there from inside the ship.

9. Right before we are excused, the cruise director will make a request to please keep your vest on until having returned safe and sound of mind to yourcabin. Why? Those same straps again. Someone will no doubt trip over them on the stairs and the missery (for that person) will begin!

 

10. If nothing else, remember: The drill is for OUR safety. The crew already knows all about it. They practise it, far more times than we ever will!

 

11. Is it really too much asked?

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Since showing up before the alarm sounds is how things would go if the alarm actually sounded in a real emergency... seems counter-productive to safety imo, prepares you for nothing. Who am I to argue with coast guard though =/

 

It actually teaches you where your lifeboat is located, which is an exceedingly good thing to know through the personal physical experience of actually going there. The Line wants you there at the beginning of it to facilitate the roll-call and so that they can then give you a few directions ... like how to correctly put on a life vest.

 

Following that Life boat drill I always pay attention to where I am and where my life boat is located when walking out on the promenade deck. I've even been known to reach up and pat it, affectionately. :D I pray I never have to use it, but I AM DANG SURE I'm going to know where it is and how to get to it if I need to evacuate the ship in an emergency.

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I wish HAL would use a different method for their muster drills rather that mustering at the assigned station on the open deck. The alternative method, used by Princess, Celebrity, and others, is to muster in a designated lounge. That probably wouldn't improve passenger behavior but it would be more comfortable and practical.

 

How is this practical? It doesn't teach you where your life boat is located and how to get there if the disaster arises and it becomes necessary to evacuate the ship while at sea. That is the purpose of the lifeboat drill; it provides one with the physical, experiential memory of where one's boat is and how to get to it (at least) from one's cabin, if not from elsewhere board ship. I always pay attention to that, and every time I pass my assigned life boat while out, walking on the promenade deck, I will note my boat and pat it.

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A major purpose of the drill is for each passenger to know where his lifeboat station is - and how to get there. Conducting the drill in a lounge misses that point entirely - it also trivializes the significance of the exercise in the minds of the passengers. Also, nothing is gained by waiting for the alarm before proceeding to your station- except prolonging the exercise for everyone else.

 

Ooops ... I should have kept reading the thread! Thanks!

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I disagree. If there was a real emergency that demanded evacuation, the odds that you would use your assigned lifeboat are pretty slim. Having a muster station, be it a lounge or a spot on the open deck is what is important so that everyone can be accounted for and directed to the point where they can wait or be evacuated.

 

In an actual emergency is is very unlikely that you're going to be able to be assembled someplace other than the boats. If, in the middle of the night when most people are in bed, there is emergency that requires an evacuation of the ship, it makes the greatest sense to assemble at your lifeboat station so as to save both time and mass-confusion. If the alert to evacuate the ship comes during the day, why assemble at some place other than the place where one is going to board the boats? If you can go back to your cabin to get your life jacket ... good. Otherwise, don't worry ... each boat has life jackets and there are plenty of life jackets in storage cabinets all around the promenade deck ... more than enough for all passengers, staff, and crew.

 

And, yes, according to operational policy, in an emergency one will use one's actually assigned boat (unless that boat cannot, for whatever reason, be launched).

 

Using a lounge as a muster location allows flexibility in moving passengers to safe locations and usable lifeboats. It is impossible to predict the situation that would require evacuation but there are likely scenarios that would render some lifeboat stations unusable (fire, listing, collision damage, etc.). Directing passengers to usable lifeboat stations from a lounge makes a great deal of practical sense.

 

This is the "Emergency Staging Station" method of ship evacuation. It has its positives and negatives: the positives are, mostly, what you describe. The negatives are, also, mostly what you describe. I'll address the negatives. Staging someplace other than the boats themselves wastes valuable time in people having to get to wherever their muster station is (from anyplace else on the ship) and, then, from there to their life boat; the logistics of doing this from lounges around the ship will create bottlenecks in maneuvering large bodies of people all around the ship -- from wherever they are when the alert comes to lounge to muster, then to outside locations, UP or DOWN stairs; and, finally, it is utterly unnecessary when and where one has sufficient deck space on the promenade to muster the passengers at or near their boats, disperse passengers to other adjoining boats if damage, fire, etc., makes it impossible to use their assigned boats, or even quickly and safely move them to the other side of the ship if evacuation from one side becomes impossible. If you object to how I've described the logistics of people moving to lounges to get their boat assignments in an emergency, etc., just think about the traffic log-jams, etc., during early-morning shore excursion calls. Now ... have EVERYBODY on the ship trying to get off at the SAME TIME, and you can imagine the nightmare that an emergency would generate in trying to move people around the ship that way. It is simply FAR EASIER, given the damship layout, to muster us where the boats are ... easier to provide a single, simple place to get to, without having to go else-place first, and from which contingency re-deployments are far easier than trying to do it from some distant lounge -- a deck down (or up) and half a ship away.

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The bottom line:

1. Lifeboat drills are mandatory and are for our safety! If they don't hold them, the lines can and will be heavily fined! Cruise lines, the U.S. Coast Guard, foreign coast guards/maritime agencies, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and the International Council of Cruise Lines (ICCL) all work together to establish safety and training standards for cruise ships.

2. They are not for our (the passenger's) amusement and are not a social event and/or gathering!

3. The ship's photographers and the video guy should not be there! Their presence detracts from the seriousness of the event BUT is not a reason to start acting like a bunch of fifteen-year olds. Someone in Seattle and at the other line's corporate offices, probably figured out that we passengers spend money to buy those pics 'cause they "look like so much fun" so there's $$ to be made!

4. There is ample warning (PA announcements at 45, 30 and 15 minutes prior to the drill commencing, an entry in the Daily Program, TV's set to the channel that has the drill playing when you enter your cabin, etc) to know to be present at your station by the usual time of 4:15 PM. Don't wait for the alarm to be sounded to start shuffling off. Be on time and in the right place! You will find the location of your correct muster station on the inside of your door! You see, there is a nice schematic drawing in stunning and vivid color on the inside of your cabin door with important info on where to go and what route to take. In addition, there are traffic directors on each stairway landing that will tell you where to go. If you don't know how to put on your vest correctly, there is a complete illustration on "how to get her done" in the "from the captain" booklet in your cabin. Don't carry your vest in your hands on your way down or up to your muster station! Either you or someone else will trip over your dragging straps, guaranteed!

5. Most lifeboat captains will take your cabin number down when you walk up (they do that by looking at your cabin # stencilled on your vest - they are smart cookies, those lifeboat captains, have had all kinds of training and will have done it a zillion times). If they don't catch your number when you're inbound because of the sea of humanitity suddenly coming out of the woodworks at 4:19 PM (and later), they will catch it when they take roll.............IF, you happen to be paying attention at that time and are not flapping your lips and jaws when you are asked to be quiet! I understand, not everybody will know how to correctly put on his/her lifevest, especially when you're not an exerienced cruiser - those straps and the knot through the loop, tying it all in a nice butterfly knot in front can give anyone problems! Give it your best shot but pretty please.........watch them straps and try putting the vest on with the cabin number on the outside! When you arrive at your station, your life boat (captain) assistants will give you a hand, guaranteed!

6. The cruise director (and usually the captain after him because certain folks just have to continue joking and coking) will ask (sometimes more than once out of necessity) for "silence on deck". That means no talking, blowing whistles, snapping pics, you name it! Just be nice and quiet for all of 15-20 minutes. (I'm talking about the time period between your LB captain taking roll/muster, the cruise director first getting on the PA, him reading off his schpiel about the drill itself, and the captain excusing everybody. Is it too much asked to remain quiet for that period? Partying will commence shortly after, o doubt about it!

7. Comfortable? No, it's not, especially for those who are elderly or mobility impaired (go to the Front Office beforehand and let them know!) but guess what? It's not supposed to be comfortable. If it was, there would be lots of Firefighter-style;) recliners/lazy boys on deck and the staff would be serving wine, champagne and hors d'oeuvres while we are waiting. Like someone else already posted, the real thing, God forbid it ever would happen (but it has) won't be a day at the beach either, let alone several of your fellow passengers running around with their respective heads cut off in a state of panic! Besides, the longer people feel the need to continue talking, the longer the drill will take and the more uncomfortable it will become.

8. The argument about holding the drill inside in the Casino (So you can go to the bathroom :eek:----------- No, you go to the bathroom before the drill! Heck, you know it's coming so be prepared and have your caca together!) versus outside at your muster station has been made before. I prefer the way HAL does it so I know where my muster station is, I know what number it is and I know how to get there from inside the ship.

9. Right before we are excused, the cruise director will make a request to please keep your vest on until having returned safe and sound of mind to yourcabin. Why? Those same straps again. Someone will no doubt trip over them on the stairs and the missery (for that person) will begin!

 

10. If nothing else, remember: The drill is for OUR safety. The crew already knows all about it. They practise it, far more times than we ever will!

 

11. Is it really too much asked?

 

Fabu, officer John. Very well said!

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I disagree. If there was a real emergency that demanded evacuation, the odds that you would use your assigned lifeboat are pretty slim. Having a muster station, be it a lounge or a spot on the open deck is what is important so that everyone can be accounted for and directed to the point where they can wait or be evacuated. Using a lounge as a muster location allows flexibility in moving passengers to safe locations and usable lifeboats. It is impossible to predict the situation that would require evacuation but there are likely scenarios that would render some lifeboat stations unusable (fire, listing, collision damage, etc.). Directing passengers to usable lifeboat stations from a lounge makes a great deal of practical sense.

 

I tend to like the idea of mustering in a lounge as well (and no, not for my own comfort). A prime example of this is the Star Princess fire a couple year ago. Wouldn't want to have been mustered out on the open promenade deck with burning pieces of balcony falling all around me. Or how about a more recent example, Gulf of Aden pirate attack. Not sure an outside deck would be a good muster location in that scenario. Certainly pros and cons to both methods, but he most important thing remains that people attend and pay attention for their own safety regardless of the location of the drill.

 

Just curious, does anybody but HAL still do the muster drill out on deck? Trying to think back and remember. Seem like we mustered outside on NCL, but it has been 8 years since we last sailed with them. I think all the other lines we have done have mustered in lounges (X, RCCL, Princess). Ok, so on Sitmar we mustered outside as well, but that was a million years ago. They actually lowered a few of the boats to the boarding position, started them and demonstrated how you would board them. Remember thinking that was pretty cool as a kid back then :D

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I couldn't agree more with the OP!

 

After my first ever muster drill, where various people were blowing on the whistles that are attached to the life vests, I resolved that on my future cruises I would have something to say about it. Sure enough on my next cruise there were many fine upstanding passengers blowing on those &^#%&)% whistles! So I turned around and said "take a minute and think about where those whistles have been" and sure enough, there was nary a whistling sound for the remainder of the drill :)

 

 

LMAO! Probably the same people who ate glue/paste as a child. I seriously doubt the staff cleans the vests and there is no telling how many people have put their mouths on the whistle over the years. :eek: Do you think we have discovered the cause of the norovirus? :eek: :p :cool:

 

Wasn't there a Greek cruise ship in the Med which caught fire and the crew, including the captain, abandoned ship leaving the pax to fend for themselves? I think too many people saw Titanic (terrible movie) and will fend for themselves.

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The cruise director (and usually the captain after him because certain folks just have to continue joking and coking) will ask (sometimes more than once out of necessity) for "silence on deck".
Oh, yes. I'm sure you remember our Eurodam inaugural. CD Shane had made the "quiet" announcement about 4 times because many people were jawboning to their hearts content. Then the captain came on in a very stern voice (you could tell he was miffed) and let everyone know he took the safety drill VERY seriously, and expected us all to do the same ... quietly.
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Have to agree with Navybankerteacher and Copper on this. On our recent Princess cruise we 'met' in one of the lounges for a demonstration of how to put on a life jacket. No 'muster' was taken and we were told that the crew had means to check on everyone. Never did find out what those means were. I like HAL's method.

Mike

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Just curious, does anybody but HAL still do the muster drill out on deck? Trying to think back and remember. Seem like we mustered outside on NCL, but it has been 8 years since we last sailed with them. I think all the other lines we have done have mustered in lounges (X, RCCL, Princess). Ok, so on Sitmar we mustered outside as well, but that was a million years ago. They actually lowered a few of the boats to the boarding position, started them and demonstrated how you would board them. Remember thinking that was pretty cool as a kid back then :D

 

All of my cruises with RCCL (20+) have had the drill outside near the life boats. Only on Princess have I experienced the drill in a lounge which was nice. I, for one, do not need to physically go to the life boat in the drill to know where it is - I can read the back of the cabin door, know the deck of my muster station and know the actual station (from both the cabin door and the life jacket in the cabin). What I did like about HAL's lifeboat drill is that they don't prolong it with additional "propaganda" as does RCCL by going over various items such as their guest vacation policy.

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A major purpose of the drill is for each passenger to know where his lifeboat station is - and how to get there. Conducting the drill in a lounge misses that point entirely - it also trivializes the significance of the exercise in the minds of the passengers. Also, nothing is gained by waiting for the alarm before proceeding to your station- except prolonging the exercise for everyone else.

 

Having sailed on Celebrity - I thought their drill was well organized, although a different approach than HAL.

 

On Celebrity (Summit, Millenium Class vessel), you are assigned to one of four designated collection/muster points (theater, casino, lounge and dining room - all are on deck four). You are then taken in groups to a lifeboat by crew members carrying a placard with the boat number you will be assigned to. So you are only assigned a gathering/muster point in advance - not a particular lifeboat. There was no name by name roll call on Celebrity but I did notice that every room was searched, flagged, and cleared in sequence during a fire drill while in port. I would only assume this is the same procedure used during a general evacuation.

 

I actually thought it made some sense to be assigned a general collection point rather than a particular boat - in the event that your assigned boat had been conmsumed by fire or was for some reason inaccesible. If you were at a general collection point, you could then be led to a different boat in an orderly fashion by a member of the crew.

 

I'm sure both plans work fine in the event of the unimaginable. I did learn on this thread though to be at your boat before the alarm. I always followed the instructions to the letter and waited in my room with my vest on until the alarm.

 

I have no seafaring or emergency planning experience of any kind so these are all just observations of a novice.

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All of my cruises with RCCL (20+) have had the drill outside near the life boats. Only on Princess have I experienced the drill in a lounge which was nice. I, for one, do not need to physically go to the life boat in the drill to know where it is - I can read the back of the cabin door, know the deck of my muster station and know the actual station (from both the cabin door and the life jacket in the cabin). What I did like about HAL's lifeboat drill is that they don't prolong it with additional "propaganda" as does RCCL by going over various items such as their guest vacation policy.

 

Princess, Celebrity, and Carnival all do their muster drills inside. There are probably others but I don't recall from my experience. We even did a muster drill in our cabin doorway on a Delta Queen riverboat cruise. They didn't carry lifeboats at all. Certainly RCCL does them outside along with HAL. Someone mentioned the Star Princess fire as an excellent example of why mustering at the lifeboats isn't always a good or safe place to gather. There are other examples which come to mind, like the Andrea Doria where listing made the boats on one side of the ship unusable from their muster stations, same deal with listing on the Lusitania. There have been other instances where no evacuation was carried out but passengers were left for hours waiting at muster stations with no seats, bathrooms, or water. Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages. Considering that very little seems to go as planned in a real emergency, I prefer the approach of using central staging areas (lounges) from which to direct passenger movement rather than having them dispersed from one end of the ship to the other at lifeboat stations.

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I actually thought it made some sense to be assigned a general collection point rather than a particular boat - in the event that your assigned boat had been conmsumed by fire or was for some reason inaccesible. If you were at a general collection point, you could then be led to a different boat in an orderly fashion by a member of the crew.

 

Unless your general collection point is consumed by fire...

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After the Star Princess fire, I became concerned about what a HAL crew would do if passengers had to remain at their muster stations for several hours such as what the Star Princess passengers had to do. I was able to ask, within just a few weeks of each other, an executive from HAL's home office in Seattle as well as a ship's officer. Their answers were the same: an alternative plan exists when passengers must remain at their muster stations for a prolonged period of time. Neither gentleman was willing to share with me what those plans are.

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I tend to like the idea of mustering in a lounge as well (and no, not for my own comfort). A prime example of this is the Star Princess fire a couple year ago. Wouldn't want to have been mustered out on the open promenade deck with burning pieces of balcony falling all around me. Or how about a more recent example, Gulf of Aden pirate attack. Not sure an outside deck would be a good muster location in that scenario.

 

In such circumstances HAL would not have people mustering in harms way (if at all avoidable). Remember, on HAL these are not emergency muster stations ... these are EVACUATION muster stations. One is only called to these stations in the event that emergency evacuation of the ship is deemed necessary.

 

I have been on a HAL ship when a fire in crew territory got a little bad. The fire suppression teams make good work of putting it out, but the emergency was such that they had to evacuate the forward show lounge aft to the Ocean Bar. What if the show lounge had been the principle muster-station that you'd learned? Or any other lounge aboard ship. The nominal complaint expressed above stands for ANY OTHER part of the ship that is damaged or exposed to danger, too, and yet used as a muster station.

 

In the case of the emergency I mentioned above, the water-tight / fire doors were all closed and the Captain asked all passengers to maintain their current position until the "all clear" sounded. No mustering to lifeboat stations was sounded because the emergency hadn't reached that point.

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Oh, yes. I'm sure you remember our Eurodam inaugural. CD Shane had made the "quiet" announcement about 4 times because many people were jawboning to their hearts content. Then the captain came on in a very stern voice (you could tell he was miffed) and let everyone know he took the safety drill VERY seriously, and expected us all to do the same ... quietly.

 

I remember that. Yes, indeed. And rightfully so ... there were some people near me who were misbehaving and were taking offense when the Captain came on and lectured us about being quiet. I wanted to crawl away and hide, I was so ashamed of their behavior.

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I actually thought it made some sense to be assigned a general collection point rather than a particular boat - in the event that your assigned boat had been conmsumed by fire or was for some reason inaccesible. If you were at a general collection point, you could then be led to a different boat in an orderly fashion by a member of the crew.

 

What do you do in the event that it's your general collection point that is consumed by fire or, for some reason, was inaccessible? On HAL if your muster station cannot be accessed, assembling out on the promenade in close proximity to the boats themselves will facilitate QUICK redeployment of those affected to alternative life boats.

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What do you do in the event that it's your general collection point that is consumed by fire or, for some reason, was inaccessible? On HAL if your muster station cannot be accessed, assembling out on the promenade in close proximity to the boats themselves will facilitate QUICK redeployment of those affected to alternative life boats.

 

 

As stated in my original post - I am neither a seafarer nor an emergency planner so I'll defer to the experts and just do what I'm told... regardless of the cruise line.:)

 

This is the most interesting discussion I've read on the CC board in a while. Thanks to all participants!

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After the Star Princess fire, I became concerned about what a HAL crew would do if passengers had to remain at their muster stations for several hours such as what the Star Princess passengers had to do. I was able to ask, within just a few weeks of each other, an executive from HAL's home office in Seattle as well as a ship's officer. Their answers were the same: an alternative plan exists when passengers must remain at their muster stations for a prolonged period of time. Neither gentleman was willing to share with me what those plans are.

 

In the event of an emergency in which immediate evacuation of the ship is not anticipated, general announcements will be made to call passengers attention to the situation, evacuate whatever areas need to be vacated by passengers for their safety or for the need of the ship to combat the situation, and passengers will be given directions as to what to do and/or where to go during the course of the emergency. Reporting to Life Boat Stations is only called for when it is determined that evacuation of the ship is necessary for the safety of the passengers.

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