Large Group Cruises

[hammybee]

Hammy,

I feel as though I must "defend" my posts here.

Barbara

 

Barbara, I am sorry if I made you feel the necessity to defend your posts. That was not my intent.

 

I thought I was doing fairly well by recalling something of your experience. Alas, I did not recall that it all worked out to your satisfaction.

 

I could feel your trepidation about your upcoming cruise and thought perhaps, another cruise line might work out better. Despite it all, the only thing I am a cheerleader for is cruising in general and I am fasinated by the phenomina of mass-marketing cruising, from a business perspective.

 

Again, I am sorry if I made you feel the need to defend anything. I sincerely hope your September cruise exceeds your expectations.

[Fuzzzy]

Some passengers have strong preferences about cruising with others who share the same values and behaviors, to the point that if they are confronted with differences, it has the potential to ruin their cruise.

 

What does "share the the values and behaviors, to the point that if they are confronted with differences, it has the potential to ruin their cruise" have to do with being on a cruise?

 

Are Mercedes sales people representing evil? Should the cruise lines not allow large High School reunions onboard? What about large wedding or family reunions?

 

Maybe, you are referring to your own inner confrontation with differences that has a "potential to ruin" your cruise. Do others "values and behaviors" really ruin your cruise Hammybee?

[barbon2]

Hammy,

No need to apologize. Believe me we all get passionate in relaying our cruise experiences. I go way back on these boards (even though the number of posts do not show it, due to the change in the boards years ago), I am one of the original posters to this forum when it was a small group that posted on AOL and Cruise Cafe. Believe me, I have been involved in many "heated" discussions over the years and even received a "warning" from our lovable host "Walt" over my opinion along with Parnami's on the Celebrity Boards. Parnami and I had some really "harsh discussions" that got very ugly at times, but we have since become very good friends and we even today we try to avoid Celebritiy debates. :) So sometimes good things come of different opinions.

So again, those of us who love cruising sometimes take things to heart, but we all mean well and only want EVERYONE to have a wonderful cruise experience no matter what line or ship they choose.

Barbara

[Copper10-8]

.............What about large wedding or family reunions?.................quote]

 

As long as they're not Italian!:eek: :eek:

Just kidding, just kidding! Don't put a horse's head in my bed, please!;)

[hammybee]

What does "share the the values and behaviors, to the point that if they are confronted with differences, it has the potential to ruin their cruise" have to do with being on a cruise?

 

Are Mercedes sales people representing the devil? Should the cruise lines not allow large High School reunions onboard? What about large wedding or family reunions?

 

Hey, I am not defending how some other people react when confronted with different behaviors and values. It is one of the reasons why cruise lines do not release the names of groups and I think this is a good idea.

 

The active posters on the other CC board, I was referring to, tend to think of themselves as "family" and they do not seem to appreciate anyone who does not conform to their " classy" expections. Something as simple as group- passengers wearing name tags can set off some of the posters. I have not sailed with this particular line and therefore do not know if the active posters are indicitive of most passengers or not.

 

Groups come is all sizes and shapes and are individuals who have come together with a common interest. Sometimes that interest might be political, spiritual, lifestyle or hobby and there are plenty of passengers who prefer to not be in the same place, at the same time, with others who have different values. Perhaps they might be happier not sharing their vacation with 2000 other people and risking be exposed to differences. There is no greater democracy than cruising. All of our money is green.

[hammybee]

Hammy,

I go way back on these boards (even though the number of posts do not show it, due to the change in the boards years ago), I am one of the original posters to this forum when it was a small group that posted on AOL and Cruise Cafe.

Barbara

 

Small world. I too, go back to the very begining in the AOL Cruise Cafe days and have had an on again/ off again CC relationship, for years. I think I lost my post count twice, over the years cause it did not matter to me. I was not hammybee then. I think we used our AOL names or something, back then.

 

If you care to , send me an email at lyndouglasatsbcglobaldotnet and we can talk old days, off line.

[hammybee]

Maybe, you are referring to your own inner confrontation with differences that has a "potential to ruin" your cruise. Do others "values and behaviors" really ruin your cruise Hammybee?

 

Either I did not catch this last line the first time or you edited and added it while I was responding.

 

I embrace diversity in all forms including behaviors and values.It is what I like best about traveling, including cruising. Moriah was curious about why some are so down on group cruises and I shared my observations with her. There are thousands of posts on these boards, where upon hearing the common interest of a group, many posters show their own biases. As far as I am concerned it's their problem.

[hammybee]

Look what I just found:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=10554973#post10554973

 

Your messages imply opposition to discrimination and biogotry and yet your most recent posting, to the Princess board, implies that you have made a sweeping generalization about me, this topic and the entire HAL message board.

 

The real issue as it relates to the HAL board, at this time, is that sometimes groups are trumping individual passengers in terms of prolonged restricted access to otherwise public venues.

[Moriah]

Golfette,

Our group is Abraham-Hicks Publications. We have 540 sailing. A-H has sailed with HAL a total of 10 cruises now, this will be my fourth, and I have never seen or heard a single complaint.

[gizmo]

It never occurred to me until reading this board that anyone was bothered by the presence of our group on any of the cruises.

 

Yes, groups do bother people. Sails's post about the Irish group is a classic example. People were excluded from the Crow's Nest and the aft pool on sea days. Sometimes Hal bumps people from their confirmed dining times to give it the group. Groups can take over public areas and make someone not part of the group feel like an outsider.

 

Not all groups are the same. As others mentioned a group can be 10 people or 500. Sometimes you wouldn't even know there are groups on board, but other times it can be a nightmare.

 

I sailed with a group once. I think maybe 100 cabins were booked. Everything was negotiated with Hal. We had priority dining (we did not take over the dining room,everyone choose the time they wanted), 2 cocktail parties in the Crows Nest in the afternoon, priority shore excursion booking (This was before you could book on line. )

 

Hal even screws groups. :rolleyes: The hotel was included with the price of the cruise. When the TA negotiated prices and perks, the hotel was Pier 66. (Let's not get into Hal has the right to change hotels, because this was a different circumtance) After final payment Hal decided to change hotels. The TA raised cane and found the reason for the change was, Hal gave our hotel rooms to a larger group that was sailing on the same date but a different ship. This large group did not book at the last minute since the TA was well aware of this group when our cruise was choosen. To compensate for this Hal threw us a cocktail party at the other hotel. The people running this group, cruise every year. They were so angry over the hotel incident they have never booked on Hal again.

[sail7seas]

Yes, groups do bother people. Sails's post about the Irish group is a classic example. People were excluded from the Crow's Nest and the aft pool on sea days. Sometimes Hal bumps people from their confirmed dining times to give it the group. Groups can take over public areas and make someone not part of the group feel like an outsider.

 

Not all groups are the same. As others mentioned a group can be 10 people or 500. Sometimes you wouldn't even know there are groups on board, but other times it can be a nightmare.

 

I sailed with a group once. I think maybe 100 cabins were booked. Everything was negotiated with Hal. We had priority dining (we did not take over the dining room,everyone choose the time they wanted), 2 cocktail parties in the Crows Nest in the afternoon, priority shore excursion booking (This was before you could book on line. )

 

Hal even screws groups. :rolleyes: The hotel was included with the price of the cruise. When the TA negotiated prices and perks, the hotel was Pier 66. (Let's not get into Hal has the right to change hotels, because this was a different circumtance) After final payment Hal decided to change hotels. The TA raised cane and found the reason for the change was, Hal gave our hotel rooms to a larger group that was sailing on the same date but a different ship. This large group did not book at the last minute since the TA was well aware of this group when our cruise was choosen. To compensate for this Hal threw us a cocktail party at the other hotel. The people running this group, cruise every year. They were so angry over the hotel incident they have never booked on Hal again.

 

 

Consider this message to be stated with the firmest of intent.

 

The way you began this post implies I had some difficulty in regard to Irish Groups.

 

THAT IS NOT ANYTHING I EVER SAID. IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONVEY MY MESSAGES THEN CONVEY THEM WITH THE SAME TONE AND MEANING I HAVE GIVEN THEM.

 

When I have referenced our cruise where a large group of people (about 700+ on an "S" ship), I stated we were denied access to Crows Nest most nights of a ten day cruise. I also reference we were forced to leave aft pool on a sea day ONE TIME (not

DAYS as you stated).

 

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, please do not give the impression my problem with not having access had anything at all to do with the composition of the group. It wouldn't have mattered what it was the group had in common that brought them together.......it was the size of the group and the fact we were denied access to Crows Nest and one afternoon at the pool.

 

CARE should be taken when referencing other people's comments to be sure you are not misrepresenting anything they said. If you are going to say "Sail" (not Sails) said this or that be sure you have conveyed my meaning the way I said it.

[barbon2]

My My, SEE, how posts get out of line. I do believe that this original thread was in reference to LARGE!!! groups on a cruise and how it affects other passenger's cruise experience. I THINK what people were referring to as I was with a group of 600+ on board how public venues were closed off to other passengers. I do not think anyone on this board was being prejudice, I think it is a statement as to large groups interferring with the "regular passengers." Sure there are groups of 10, 50, 100 etc. on all cruises, but you do not even realize that they are on the cruise. Believe me, when 600+ people are on a ship and do activities together as a group, gather as a group and disperse as a group you do notice it and it does interfer. Here's another perfect example. We are cruising in Sept. to Alaska. We orginially booked the last week in August, almost a year prior. Upper assigned dining (which we prefer) was already booked, nothing to do with the new freestyle, was told there was a group on this sailing who had this dining time. Now let's say, for example, that we kept our original date, and the upper dining area was filled with this group with the expection of a few tables and we were assigned one of these tables. If the group is large and has speeches, etc., during dinner, were noisy and roudy, yes, it would affect my cruise experience. This is just an abstract example, but I think that is what many of us are trying to express. No, a few tables of families, special interest groups, etc. would probably not bother anyone or be noticed.

Barbara

[sail7seas]

I agree, Barbon. In the scenario you present, dinner would be ruined for us.

 

[kryos]

Sometimes' date=' however, there is not going to be a practical solution. The senior crew was very nice to us and others who were badly impacted. They did their best to salvage a vacation for us. But it is true that it is very difficult to find out if a large group is booked. I hope that never happens to us again. It was not pleasant.[/b']

But, there is a very practical solution. If these large groups want to take over the ship ... have everything onboard catered specifically to their needs, then they have a very viable option to make that so. Charter the "dammed" ship! Kick all the rest of us off of their sailing. That's fine. Won't hurt my feelings in the slightest. Frankly, I'd rather get bounced off my cruise ... and have to reschedule ... than share a ship with a large group who takes over the entire sailing.

 

There's nothing wrong with giving a group access to certain venues that are generally not used by the public during certain hours ... i.e., the main show lounge for an hour after BINGO, or one lounge that normally doesn't see much activity during a certain period of time ... various rooms that are set aside specifically for meetings and such during the day ... such as the Half Moon Room or the Hudson Room ... having private meals in the Queen's or King's Room. Nothing wrong with that. I was on a group sailing once that operated that way. Other than one cocktail party the first evening of the cruise ... where a good part of the Crow's Nest was taken over for an hour or so by the group for that private party ... we were non-obtrusive to the rest of the guests on the sailing. We were a writer's conference at sea, and yes ... we used meeting rooms and parts of other public areas for our lectures and breakout sessions ... but those were either areas that were still open to other people on the sailing ... we only had a small section ... or they were entire rooms that didn't see much activity in the daytime ... they were specifically set aside for groups like ours. But we never took over areas like the pools or major lounges ... as well we shouldn't have been allowed to do.

 

Cruise lines ... and not just HAL ... should never permit groups to close off major venues to other passengers on their sailing. If they want to do that, then they just have to market their sailing a bit more so as to have enough bookings to just take over the ship.

 

I know I've yet to be on a sailing that is monopolized by a large group. But when the day comes that I am ... I'm going to become the GRM's absolute worst nightmare. And ... trust me ... I am not a complainer as a rule ... and have rarely had interactions with the GRM on previous cruises. But I will not ... absolutely not ... be denied access to ammenities I paid a dear price for ... just because a group decides to hog them all for themselves.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

The way you began this post implies I had some difficulty in regard to Irish Groups.

I for one didn't take your post that way at all. I understood exactly what you were saying ... because it's the same way I feel. No group, whatever their purpose or makeup, should be allowed to take over a sailing marketed to the general public as well. If they wish to do that, then they should move up to a full ship charter ... plain and simple.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[gizmo]

We experienced the same horrible situation that you describe on Ryndam a number of years ago when there was a very large group led by "Gertrude" (I'll never forget her or her name :( she was so ugly to the rest of us aboard). She had a large Irish group aboard who brought their own band for Irish Music. The people and their music were fine.

 

What was not fine was that for 8 our of 10 nights we could not go to Crows Nest. They threw us out of aft pool all sea days at 2 PM so they could have a private party w/ their music out there and too bad about the rest of us who had paid our fares to use the whole ship.....not just a tiny corner of it. They took over the dining room and it was impossible for anyone who was not in their group to have full enjoyment of the ship.

 

HAL should NEVER IMO allow a group to take over 75-80% of a ship and then subject the rest of the pax to such a bad experience. They should insist the group takes the whole ship.....or they simply do not sell the remaining available space to people who are not fully informed of what the situation will be once aboard. GREED dictates, as always!!!

 

I read sea days not sea day. Mulitple days are implied. Thank you for clearing this up.

 

For anyone who thought I was picking on the Irish, that was not my intent and I believe most realize this. (My mother was Irish :) ) Since the group was referred to as a large Irish group, I used the word Irish.

 

I did not imply anything in regards to you having difficulty with Irish groups. You have misinterpreted what I said.

[doone]

Not to worry Gizmo, I did not take any offense to your post, you were simply making a valid point about groups and someone's experience.

[sail7seas]

I read sea days not sea day. Mulitple days are implied. Thank you for clearing this up.

 

For anyone who thought I was picking on the Irish, that was not my intent and I believe most realize this. (My mother was Irish :) ) Since the group was referred to as a large Irish group, I used the word Irish.

 

I did not imply anything in regards to you having difficulty with Irish groups. You have misinterpreted what I said.

 

 

Glad to hear it.

 

I'm sure you wouldn't want any misrepresentation or misunderstanding.

 

 

 

Kryos.....[/b]

But, there is a very practical solution. If these large groups want to take over the ship ... have everything onboard catered specifically to their needs, then they have a very viable option to make that so. Charter the "dammed" ship! Kick all the rest of us off of their sailing. That's fine. Won't hurt my feelings in the slightest. Frankly, I'd rather get bounced off my cruise ... and have to reschedule ... than share a ship with a large group who takes over the entire sailing.

If it were that simple, I am sure they would fully charter and there would be no problem. The problem comes when they do not have quite enough to fill (charter) the whole ship. The cruise lines clearly do not want to be short 400-500 people. Therefore, the problem.

 

We all know the fair and unfair of it all.

The message seems to be that if they lose some cruisers because of their dissatisfaction with their cruise, it is a loss they are willing to experience. The profit from the group is large enough to warrant the loss of a few of us.

 

For the most part, they will not lose business from those of us who they would not have lost business from anyway.

 

DH and I kept cruising HAL and in over 50+ cruises, that is the only time anything even remotely like it happened to us.

 

[hammybee]

 

DH and I kept cruising HAL and in over 50+ cruises, that is the only time anything even remotely like it happened to us.

 

[/b]

 

Thank you for saying this. It puts the issue into perspective.

[sail7seas]

I firmly believe the most important thing we should try to do here on the BB's is to be honest, helpful and FAIR. IMO, it is only Fair to put situations and events into perspective when we have the experience and knowledge to do so.

 

Not to mention doing so adds to the needed credibility........

 

[Copper10-8]

I firmly believe the most important thing we should try to do here on the BB's is to be honest, helpful and FAIR. IMO, it is only Fair to put situations and events into perspective when we have the experience and knowledge to do so.

 

Not to mention doing so adds to the needed credibility........

 

 

Nicely said, S7S!:) - What's a BB?

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Copper...

 

"BB" = Bulletin Board (Message Board)

[Copper10-8]

Thanks, Copper...

 

"BB" = Bulletin Board (Message Board)

 

Got it, thanks!

[hammybee]

But, there is a very practical solution. If these large groups want to take over the ship ... have everything onboard catered specifically to their needs, then they have a very viable option to make that so. Charter the "dammed" ship!

Blue skies ...--rita

 

I hear what you are saying Rita but I do not think it's practical for most groups or any cruise line. When a company charters a cruise ship, the risk of filling the ship is transfered from the cruise line to the charter company.

 

When a charter company is unsuccesful in filling a ship, they risk sailing at a loss, sometimes a serious loss. There are a few well known special interest travel companies who are on the brink of insolvency right now, because they were unable to fill some of their charter cruises.

 

If a cruise line were to, by policy, not allow groups greater than X, in size, to sail, I think there would be a heck of a lot of empty cabins on a lot of sailings and some cruise lines would be at serious risk of failure.

 

Every cruise line is dependent upon investor capital, public or private. Every cruise line answers to its shareholders, in terms of financial performance. And most shareholders are not particularily interested in anything beyond a decent return on their investment. And those that own a piece of Carnival are happier than those who own a piece of RCL or NCL based upon 1 and 5 year return on investment.

[geoherb]

I hate when dead threads are resurrected. I wish there were a way for the moderators to close a thread after a certain amount of time with no activity--perhaps even as long as a month. After that, though, I'd rather see a new thread posted so I don't have to wade through all the old messages.

 

Someone could still reference the old thread with a link if they wanted to when posting a new message.