How will NCL Court Traditional Cruisers to Return to NCL?

[negc]

Clearly many NCL enthusiasts do not look with favor any attempts to court traditional cruisers to return to NCL. However, the real problem, as I see it, is that Mr. Sheehan as indicated that this is one of his goals. If he follows through by designing a marketing program that will achieve that goal, what does that mean for the future of NCL and where will those of you who have such an adverse position towards traditional cruiseing go?

A recurring problem for NCL has been its inconsistency in to choosing a course and sticking to it. Its NCL America experiment is a perfect example. Has NCL decided that its efforts to create a different and unique cruise experience hasn't proven as successful in turning the line into a profit-making operation as they had envisioned and that writing off all those traditional cruisers was a mistake? While many have cited a trend among the other lines to offer versions of flexible dining, you should note that in all instances those lines are attempting, with varying degrees of success, to offer both dining styles. Can NCL win back some of those lost passengers by adapting to the degree that they can blend in some of the traditional dining along with the freestyle dining options? Can both styles co-exist on NCL? It is certainly a subject worthy of serious discussion.

[terrymtex01]

I've seen very, very few like that...do you know what a GV costs for 2 weeks? When it was the hidden bargain, when the Star and Dawn were new, you could put 6 people in there for 2 weeks for less than $5k/person--a great deal for what you got! But it's not like that now..........If I was going to drop $7000-$10k per night in a casino, I'd be sure to go to Las Vegas where the games are more varied and the odds are better. I like Black Jack and 3-card poker but I'm not dropping big money like that! (nor do I see the point--but I'm not a high-stakes gambler).

 

Well out of four NCL cruises we have met at least two or three per cruise. Those are just the ones we have met. So they are there. Of course we spend most of our time on the ship in the casino, so that maybe why we have met them. If we have met two or three on average per cruise, I doubt it was just a fluke four times in a row.

 

The thing I have never understood about any discussion like this is that I could careless what someone else paid for their cruise or what benefit I get for my suite as opposed to what someone else gets. What I do or do not get I choose when I book the cruise. If someone else gets something more or gets to cruise for a lower price.. I'm thrilled for them. What they do or do not get does not affect me. I have never understood why it does other people. To me that is just sour grapes.

[Dukegirl5577]

If we have met two or three on average per cruise, I doubt it was just a fluke four times in a row.

 

I don't doubt it in the least. I'm not a gambler, so I don't ever go to the casino, but on our first NCL cruise, we met a couple who easily spent at least $50,000 on artwork alone at the onboard auctions (and don't get me started about the art auctions and how they are NOT a good way to buy art). And every time I walked by the casino (which was frequently, as this was the quickest route back to our cabin from most of the places we hung out on board), I saw them at the blackjack table. EVERY time.

[osprey101]

I don't want to step in here to get totally flamed, but I'll take a chance. I am probably what you all would call a "traditional" style cruiser. That said, I am willing to try new things and will be on my first Freestyle cruise in about 16 days. I've been reading pros and cons for some months and am going with an open mind. I will say that I LIKE having the same server at meals...someone who knows in advance (after the 1st night) that I want a ginger ale at the table when I sit down and want Bailey's Irish Cream with my after dinner coffee. This server is also going to get an extra envelope from me above the automatic tip fees. I agree that it would be nice to vary dinner times depending on ports, etc. but don't think I should have to stand in line for dinner (I do that at popular restaurants, I know, but this is MY vacation and I like feeling I am important enough to be seated at my own table as soon as I get there). I have been told that freestyle is better and I intend to give it a fair try. Part of the fun of cruising for me is being spoiled. No matter what I decide about Freestyle I still believe that there is no such thing as a bad cruise.

[mypleasure]

If you want to alinate folks make fun of their values. If you want to attract those people as customers highlight the benefits and set the seed of an idea in their mind.

 

So to attract new customers who prefer traditional dining I would cease any advertising that could be construed as any form of attack on those peopple who prefer tradintional dining. I would then commence a new campaign highlighting the benefits of freestyle such as anytime and the dining styles choice. I would play down the dress code and show mainly shots of people dressed up but also include a few of folks in 'resort casual' to add balance.

Here in the UK I don't see NCL advertise although Royal Carribean has a big advertising programme running at the moment on TV. I quite like their ad, they make it all look like a great holiday, but I wouldn't sail with them currently but who knows in future.

[Ginamarie]

I don't want to step in here to get totally flamed, but I'll take a chance. I am probably what you all would call a "traditional" style cruiser. That said, I am willing to try new things and will be on my first Freestyle cruise in about 16 days. I've been reading pros and cons for some months and am going with an open mind. I will say that I LIKE having the same server at meals...someone who knows in advance (after the 1st night) that I want a ginger ale at the table when I sit down and want Bailey's Irish Cream with my after dinner coffee. This server is also going to get an extra envelope from me above the automatic tip fees. I agree that it would be nice to vary dinner times depending on ports, etc. but don't think I should have to stand in line for dinner (I do that at popular restaurants, I know, but this is MY vacation and I like feeling I am important enough to be seated at my own table as soon as I get there). I have been told that freestyle is better and I intend to give it a fair try. Part of the fun of cruising for me is being spoiled. No matter what I decide about Freestyle I still believe that there is no such thing as a bad cruise.

 

I certainly wouldn't flame you for that! I also like having the same servers from night to night. That being said, I recognize the benefits of freestyle, but believe there are certain parties that it will work better for than others. When travelling with a large group (I believe we were about 10), freestyle was cumbersome. NCL advised that we could participate in a traditional dining set-up, making reservations for our meals once we got onboard to avoid the wait. They would only offer two time slots per night for "TD". When we got onboard though, the crew members advised that the service was only available on "select nights." Since Thanksgiving Day was not included, we went to the dining room and were told there would be a 2-hour wait. Since we had a diabetic and two seniors in our group as well as a few children, we wound up at the buffet instead. I won't cruise freestyle with a large group again- it was a lot of work getting everyone seated.

 

DH and I have had some great freestyle experiences, and we like that we don't have to share a table with strangers, but given the choice, I prefer traditional dining most of the time. I like knowing that I'll get to the shows on time. I like the relationship we build with our servers. I also find it a lot easier for someone dealing with a food allergy, since there's no need to explain the allergy every time you sit down.

 

Am I being picking? I don't think so, it's just my personal preference. I don't think there's a "right" or a "wrong" way for dining. Personally, I would like if NCL did offer a traditional dining experience for passengers who choose to use it-- meaning a standard table, standard time, and the same waiters each night. I thought that was included in the original freestyle plan, but my experiences have proven otherwise.

 

Oh, and for statistical purposes, DH and I are relatively young cruises. Each of us is 30 years old.

 

What peeves me most about NCL of late (as a previous poster mentioned) was the elimination of the NCL mastercard program. My family and I are booked on NCL this autumn, but I think my money will probably go elsewhere thereafter.

[*Wink*]

I agree about the Mastercard program, however, a small percentage of NCL fans even knew about it.

If I were considering NCL for the 1st time, I'd be tempted by loyalty incentives. I mean, good ones. NCL would have a bigger crowd if they were the best in the business for past customer discounts.

[dfishner]

As a tradional cruiser which I thought I was, I have sailed RCL for many years always booked the 8:30 seating until our last cruise. We booked the Speciality restaurants 3 times at decided since we did that we might as well try My Time Dining for the first time and you know what we really liked it, We came down various times for dinner, they always had a seat for us and we really enjoyed it. The only thing I did miss was not sitting with others but it was no biggie.

 

We decided to try NCL this December, we like the idea of all those restaurants, we fully understand that in order to get the restaurant you want and the time you want is to make reservations. Again no big deal. We tend to dine between 7 and 7:30 and are flexible with that. I do not believe we could go back to tradional dining. I kind of fell into this and was glad I did.

[negc]

I don't want to step in here to get totally flamed, but I'll take a chance. I am probably what you all would call a "traditional" style cruiser. That said, I am willing to try new things and will be on my first Freestyle cruise in about 16 days. I've been reading pros and cons for some months and am going with an open mind. I will say that I LIKE having the same server at meals...someone who knows in advance (after the 1st night) that I want a ginger ale at the table when I sit down and want Bailey's Irish Cream with my after dinner coffee. This server is also going to get an extra envelope from me above the automatic tip fees. I agree that it would be nice to vary dinner times depending on ports, etc. but don't think I should have to stand in line for dinner (I do that at popular restaurants, I know, but this is MY vacation and I like feeling I am important enough to be seated at my own table as soon as I get there). I have been told that freestyle is better and I intend to give it a fair try. Part of the fun of cruising for me is being spoiled. No matter what I decide about Freestyle I still believe that there is no such thing as a bad cruise.

 

I would certainly hope that nothing you have written could be considered worthy of a flame. You seem to have an excellent attitude and I have no doubt that you will enjoy your cruise on NCL even if you decide that after trying it you still prefer a more traditional dining arrangement, because it is obvious that you are going to give freestyle dining a fair trial. I share your opinions and also look forward to experiencing freestyle dining in a few months.:)

It is just interesting to see that the new regime at NCL sees a need to make some changes in how they market themselves and it will be fun to see what those changes will entail and what effect, if any, they will have on loyal NCL cruisers.:)

[Britt23]

Are there cruise lines that have both traditional and freestyle dining available?

[newmexicoNita]

Are there cruise lines that have both traditional and freestyle dining available?

 

yes, many: Princess has the best program for both, but the other lines also offer a choice. The problem, flex does not work quite as well on the lines that have recently converted.

 

Nita

[negc]

yes, many: Princess has the best program for both, but the other lines also offer a choice. The problem, flex does not work quite as well on the lines that have recently converted.

 

Nita

I wouldn't agree that Princess has the best program. I base that on the long wait lists that passengers who request traditional dining are placed on and their reports that in many instances they are forced to accept anytime dining when they don't clear the wait lists by the time they sail. Princess designates more dining rooms for anytime dining than traditional regardless of how the numbers break out. RCI is slowly phasing in its My Time Dining program throughout the fleet and so far the reports have been more favorable. At present the number of my time dining passengers is limited but it appears that the section of the dining room reserved for my time dining can be expanded or retracted to reflect actual demand. It may be too early to claim that their system is the best but the signs are favorable. Princess has been doing Anytime Dining for years and the same complaints keep being raised: 1. Passengers requesting traditional being placed in anytime dining. 2. Refusal of Princess to accept reservations (standing or otherwise) for Anytime Dining between the hours of 6:30 pm and 8:00 pm with resultant lengthy waits if a larger party shows up for dinner during those hours and the issuance of beepers to notify diners when their table is available. 3. Claims by Princess personnel that those guests who request traditional dining really don't know what they want and, 4. Despite knowing well before the sailing date how many guests want traditiional dining and how many want anytime dining, refusing to adjust its dining room assignments to reflect the actual demand.:rolleyes:

I'm not sure that the two systems can successfully co-exist but if it can, it would seem that flexibility on the part of the cruiseline to adjust things to reflect the wishes of their passengers is essential.:)

[pengu1n]

We did a b2b this summer on Holland America and one dining area was traditional and one was anytime. We intentionally picked anytime, but for our second week they asked us to switch to traditional (we didn't). Apparently, nobody wanted the traditional dining. (On one night, we were seated in the traditional dining area and the dinner took forever! No thank you!:eek:)

[ute_fan]

and you will lose loyalist when you ended the NCL cruise credit card. Now it doesn't matter if I go to another cruise line(which I don't want to do)

 

Ditto!!! You expressed my feelings very well. We've always looked exclusively at NCL, but with the changes in the NCL mastercard program, we'll definitely be looking at other cruise lines too.

[newmexicoNita]

I wouldn't agree that Princess has the best program. I base that on the long wait lists that passengers who request traditional dining are placed on and their reports that in many instances they are forced to accept anytime dining when they don't clear the wait lists by the time they sail. Princess designates more dining rooms for anytime dining than traditional regardless of how the numbers break out. RCI is slowly phasing in its My Time Dining program throughout the fleet and so far the reports have been more favorable. At present the number of my time dining passengers is limited but it appears that the section of the dining room reserved for my time dining can be expanded or retracted to reflect actual demand. It may be too early to claim that their system is the best but the signs are favorable. Princess has been doing Anytime Dining for years and the same complaints keep being raised: 1. Passengers requesting traditional being placed in anytime dining. 2. Refusal of Princess to accept reservations (standing or otherwise) for Anytime Dining between the hours of 6:30 pm and 8:00 pm with resultant lengthy waits if a larger party shows up for dinner during those hours and the issuance of beepers to notify diners when their table is available. 3. Claims by Princess personnel that those guests who request traditional dining really don't know what they want and, 4. Despite knowing well before the sailing date how many guests want traditiional dining and how many want anytime dining, refusing to adjust its dining room assignments to reflect the actual demand.:rolleyes:

I'm not sure that the two systems can successfully co-exist but if it can, it would seem that flexibility on the part of the cruiseline to adjust things to reflect the wishes of their passengers is essential.:)

 

I said the offer the best program, not a perfect one. As for not accepting reservations between 6:30 and 8PM, they did last spring, we sailed them. The reason for the wait list for traditional dining, there is very little traditional dining offered, you are correct but I have yet to have a client that wanted traditional dining and didn't get it. I have never seen anyone wait hours, a few minutes especially the first night yes, but not hours.

 

NIta

[iheartbda]

Ditto!!! You expressed my feelings very well. We've always looked exclusively at NCL, but with the changes in the NCL mastercard program, we'll definitely be looking at other cruise lines too.

From reading the other boards, there's at least one other line that has made changes that people are not happy about. A number are saying they are going to be looking at other lines also.

 

Maybe it's true...the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

[smeyer418]

Ditto!!! You expressed my feelings very well. We've always looked exclusively at NCL, but with the changes in the NCL mastercard program, we'll definitely be looking at other cruise lines too.

I would really like to see the numbers on the old program. I think they are really foolish to do this at this time. I doubt very much with what they got paid for the affinity card it cost them very much if at all.....much less than a couple of commercials...sometimes the bean counters can't count beans.

[negc]

I said the offer the best program, not a perfect one. As for not accepting reservations between 6:30 and 8PM, they did last spring, we sailed them. The reason for the wait list for traditional dining, there is very little traditional dining offered, you are correct but I have yet to have a client that wanted traditional dining and didn't get it. I have never seen anyone wait hours, a few minutes especially the first night yes, but not hours.

 

NIta

 

I think your clients were fortunate. How else to explain wait lists in the hundreds that we read about almost daily on the Princess boards? It would seem to be an obvious solution for Princess to adjust the dining room designations to reflect the real numbers on each cruise. If you were to cater a dinner and offered your guests a choice of filet mignon or lobster , which choice they made weeks in advance, and you had a breakdown of how many guests had chosen each option, would you not purchase the lobsters and filets in numbers that reflected those numbers or would you tell those guests whose choice exceeded some arbitrary number you had assigned to that choice that they would just have to eat the alternative selection?:rolleyes:

[DaisyL]

If NCL really wants to court the traditional cruiser they could emphasize the fact (and idea) that you can book the same table, waitstaff, dining room and time for the entire week, if that's what you prefer. But if you like dining with strangers this wouldn't work.

 

If we're cruising with our own group (friends/family) we actually prefer a traditional seating. Much less decisions... where, when, what time, what kind of food, reservation or long waits without one.... blah, blah blah.... A real hassle with 3, 4, or 5 couples.

 

But, when it's just DH and I, we much prefer freestyle... it is our best and most relaxing vacations we ever had.

 

Either way, nothing beats the NCL dress code, as far as we're concerned. We really dislike the 'formal' wear and much prefer resort casual and never feel out of place on NCL. Although we have cruised CCL and 'X' (and maybe Princess or HAL next year) and get dressed up for formal nights, doesn't mean we like it.:(

 

Now getting NCL to retract the negativity to the traditional cruiselines in their advertisements, may be more difficult.

[CastawayCruiser]

All I know is that we tried cruising and liked it but kept doing other types of vacations. We did 3 traditional cruises in 6 years. THEN we tried NCL and have done 7 cruises in the last 3 years with 2 more booked and I can't stop booking them!! Traditional cruising just wasn't for us and the minute we sailed NCL it was all over. Cruising became our obsession and we spend every vacation day and every vacation dollar on it. I know I can't be alone... NCL say no to TD - please. Just focus on what you do best in your marketing and you will attract others like us.

[terrymtex01]

They have other things going for them than just Freestyle if you ask me. Like how on traditinal cruiselines you are herded into groups on disembarkation day and have to sit there waiting for your group to be called..I HATE that. Also, as far as I know of, they are the only cruiseline that has a program like CAS (Casino at Seas) where you actually get comp'ed staterooms, etc. They need to let more people know about those things as well.

 

One negative I do think NCL could improve on is they do not seem to have as much fun activities onboard as other cruiselines. I may hate Carnival, but I do have to say they always had some fun things going on by the pool, etc.

[DaisyL]

All I know is that we tried cruising and liked it but kept doing other types of vacations. We did 3 traditional cruises in 6 years. THEN we tried NCL and have done 7 cruises in the last 3 years with 2 more booked and I can't stop booking them!! Traditional cruising just wasn't for us and the minute we sailed NCL it was all over. Cruising became our obsession and we spend every vacation day and every vacation dollar on it. I know I can't be alone... NCL say no to TD - please. Just focus on what you do best in your marketing and you will attract others like us.

I forgot to add this to my above post. We love NCL and Freestyle the best but to give credit to others, not everyone agrees.

 

We have 2 sets of friends that we often cruise with and we prefer NCL with freestyle, one couple prefers traditional but will cruise NCL if the itinerary is better only, and the third (cruised NCL twice) will not ever again because of freestyle (they like the structure of traditional dining).

 

So, maybe NCL is trying to appeal to the other 50% (or so) that they have lost to traditional cruiselines. If other lines can offer both traditional and freestyle maybe NCL can too, since they already have Freestyle down perfect.

 

How difficult would it be to convert one restaurant (or part of) on the ship to traditional? Apparently, from what I've read here on CC it seems the 'pay' restaurants been dining less than full lately and many have not had problems walking in last minute, these days.

[LOWTYD]

As far as the original question, I don't think he should go after those traditional cruises. Seems foolish to me. If people sail NCL and they don't like the way NCL does business or treats their pax, etc etc, then let them go. Ther are many who love NCL's Freestyle concept and would never cruise with anyone else. That is not to say NCL could not use improvement. I think any business can always use some imporvement some where. But to me, they need to get their landbased customer service groups in check before they try to change anything on the ships. Not to hurt any of their feelings, but I have never seen a company so bad in their customer service where each rep will give you a completely different answer from the next.

 

 

NCL if you do read these boards and you read this posting... don't bother courting the traditional cruisers to NCL. Focus on keeping the cruisers you have already and you will be fine. You wil always get new people to try NCL and they will stay just like the rest of us.

 

We have a company policy where I work..." Meeting customer's expectations through continous improvement"

 

Just thougth I would throw that out in case they do read this post.

 

PS....I like Freestyle crusing........count my vote!

[newmexicoNita]

We have a company policy where I work..." Meeting customer's expectations through continous improvement"

 

Just thougth I would throw that out in case they do read this post.

 

PS....I like Freestyle crusing........count my vote!

I agree with you and with Terry, leave everything alone..For those who want traditional dining, choose a line that offers it, many who cruise NCL do it because of freesyle dining...

 

Nita

 

oh and negc, I spend time on the Princess boards as well, there are some who complain about not getting tradtional dining but not daily do people claim the waitlist is in the 100s. Don't you think that might be an exageration???

 

Nita

[LOWTYD]

They have other things going for them than just Freestyle if you ask me. Like how on traditinal cruiselines you are herded into groups on disembarkation day and have to sit there waiting for your group to be called..I HATE that. Also, as far as I know of, they are the only cruiseline that has a program like CAS (Casino at Seas) where you actually get comp'ed staterooms, etc. They need to let more people know about those things as well.

 

One negative I do think NCL could improve on is they do not seem to have as much fun activities onboard as other cruiselines. I may hate Carnival, but I do have to say they always had some fun things going on by the pool, etc.

I have to agree on the daily onboard activities. I did a Carnival 2 day in October and I thought the cruise director and staff were so good and amuszing. THey play games like corn hole and putt putt and were just amusing. Sometimes I rarely see the staff on NCL unless it's at a show or game show. I don't want obnoxious, just someone who is entertaining.