That 15%!!!

[carlmm]

Cruisechik, as a German I like to answer to your remark. Some of the differences are

1) Service here is not automatically added but really just included. It is not a fixed percentage either nor will the customer normally know how much the waiter gets. It is the business of the owner to calculate the prices such way that they cover all expenses including those of the service personnel.

2) Thus menu prices are final prices explicitely stated to the customer.

3) The wage of the waiter is not directly linked to sales (or only partly). Thus there is no need to press customers for another drink of the day or what ever.

4) You are perfectly right with the notion that a small tip is expected if the service is good. That means "small" (compared to the 25% somebody demanded) and "if".

5) In many pubs or similiar places it is perfectly fine not to tip at the counter/bar.

6) No mixture between wage and extra reward.

 

What many people, judging by the posts here Americans as well as Europeans, bothers is the need to waive with a staple of notes to pay for every single bit of service. This is degrading for both sides.

And it deforms people: As I had to read on some threads there is the danger some people will willfully damage or misdirect your luggage if you do not tip enough. Some guests think they will only get adequate service if they bribe their steward upfront - if many guests act like this it will become a self fullfilling prophecy. Etc.

How do you ever know if somebody is friendly or greedy for money?

 

This does not mean, and I guess we all on this board agree on this one, that anybody should be encouraged to deny fair compensation to hard working people. Beyond this honesty and respect should be applied.

[kitty9]

Got some news for you Buddy, Dot73 isn't American, but Canadian, so I guess you can add our good neighbors to the north to your list of undesirables.

 

You stated: "Lots of peope work away from home, if it's so distressing, work somewhere else". You also stated, "So, what parts of the world have a "tipping culture" that I need to avoid?" Well, if you are telling others to work somewhere else, and you seem to be disgusted by America's tipping culture, then might I suggest you avoid traveling here or going on US based cruise ships. Just as you advised someone to work someplace else, I would advise you to vacation in third world countries because those countries seem to be the only ones left on earth that don't have tipping---oh, wait, I recently visited India, Vietnam and Myanmar and they had tips added to restaurant bills. Even places like Eastern Europe have now adopted a tipping culture. When I was recently in the UK, I saw many a hand outstretched for a tip, and that included the doorman at the Ritz who hailed my cab, and the man who drove me to Heathrow. Gee, I guess you have to stay home or else put up with us money throwing Americans.

[Leprchn]

Well, Canada (Western Country last time I checked) is virtually identical to the U.S. in terms of tipping, the expectations are the same.... so it is a tip as well as the GST (tax) and PST (tax).....

 

With all due respect, Joanne, I disagree.

 

Canadians do NOT hold their hand out every time they do something for someone. I will tip if they've gone, even if only a little bit, above and beyond, in restaurants, but that's about it. I can't even count how many times have been at an airport and hauled my own luggage into the trunk of a cab while the driver just sat there and clicked the trunk button.

 

I've travelled to many US states and found, while service exceeds Canadian service, they ALWAYS have their hand out - often while blocking your way past.

 

On the other hand, how many times have you heard someone make that ridiculous remark, "Oh, I'll make 'em earn their tip!" Or something equally as stupid? The whole "tipping culture" has gotten out of hand on both sides of the arguement.

 

I think when it comes to tipping folks are starting to say, "That's it. Enough already!" On Princess I keep the automatic $10/day gratuity in place, then tip about $10-$20 to the room steward at the end of the cruise. That's it. Enough already!

 

So far as the automatic 15% on drinks, anything that is "automatic" and "non-negotiable" IS a tax. Call it what you want, be it tip, gratuity, service charge, whatever, if you can't change it, remove it, or have an option to pay it, it's a TAX.

 

Fiona

[dot73]

"Only America has a very strong tipping culture.

I mean, you walk out of a hotel, the doorman says "Get you a cab, sir?" Ok, so he walks 2 yards, holds his hand up, and you tip him for that??? Why dont you just walk the 2 yards and hold your own hand up. Its ludicrous.

Dont want to offend anybody here, (probably have) I do love America and most of the people but people like dot73 let you down!!

I could raise some of your other points but I'll probably be `bumped"

 

 

BuddyL,

 

I don't consider being called an American an insult but I am Canadian, born in Poland, but raised in Canada. If you don't want to tip, then don't, but don't insult others who appreciate the fantastic service they get on a cruise ship. NOBODY FORCES YOU TO TIP and if you really hate our "tipping culture", find a place to travel where you don't have to tip.

 

As for your comment, "Purleese!!...Sadness in their eyes, tears etc...this isn't some 4 part made for TV starring Jane Seymour schmaltzy mini series. Lots of people work away from home, if its so distressing, work somewhere else!!

Its not...thats why they come back year after year!!", I find this very insulting. Your total lack of empathy is amazing. If these people could work at home and take care of their families, do you think they would choose instead to work on cruise ships? I don't think so. This isn't exactly a fun job. As a daughter of an immigrant who had to leave his homeland behind and who sacrificed most of his life so his children would have a better life, I totally sympathize with the cruise ship staff and will continue to tip them for great service. No one will make me feel foolish for doing so.

 

By the way, if you don't want the doorman to get you a cab, just say "no thank you" and get your own.

[Buddy L]

OK, things seemed to have moved away from my original post and I've posted some wrong comments (memo to self - shouldn't post when I'm having a bad day!!) so, apologies to all concerned.

My original post was an innocent question about this 15%. Are you obliged to pay it? OK, I've `flamed` a few people on the way and again, apologies.

Just to answer a few points.

 

Cruisechik, yes we do tip in England but its not seen as `compulsory` and if you dont tip in a restaurant, the staff dont suddenly ignore you because the smile hasn't worked, they do the job they've been paid to do - wait on the customers.

And yes, I have noticed the automatic gratuity creeping in at quite a few restaurants - also this extra line for additional tip is becoming more prevalant. We never add this extra tip since learning the owner of our nearest restaurant, which we frequent on a regular basis, uses this as part payment for staff wages. That is wrong, in my eyes anyway, so we always make sure we tip our waiter or waitress direct.

Kitty9, I have never stated I am `disgusted` by the tipping culture and I am not against tipping for a job well done, but when you read some of the posts here...tip the chef, bus driver, doorman, the man who just cremated your first cousin twice removed etc...things can go too far.

 

Perhaps indirectly I am having a go at employers because if there was a minimum wage, they couldn't get away with paying a pittance, and staff wouldn't need to rely so heavily on those precious tips!!

 

And dot73, again apologies for `flaming` earlier, but when you say "Nobody forces you to tip" what is that 15%? and if I scrubbed it off how would people react to that?

It is, in a way, an enforced tip, whichever way you look at it.

And again I have never said I `hate` your tipping culture, that is too strong a word to use, all I have said is, its very ambiguous and open to interpretation.

In a previous post you mentioned about European prices being outrageously high, but, most of the time, what you see is what you get. If a meal states on the menu a price of £20 ($35 ?) we can walk in with £20, pay and walk out again with no problems. In America (or Canada, it seems) you have to allow for that extra tip, and that tip is open to interpretation.

At the end of it, we probably pay similair prices either way it is done, it just looks cheaper when you stand outside `The Ponderosa`.

And you are wrong regarding the staff, with whom I do empathize to a certain degree.

I spent virtually every night on the Explorer in the sports bar talking to `Gusti` from Indonesia and you could not have found a happier, dignified and more decent guy on the ship.

No sad stories, no tug at the heart strings conversations, no tears, he always smiled and was very philosophical about the job. It was something he had to do and something he loved doing. At the end of the week HE bought us a drink, and yes I tipped him well as we left. (By the way, there were times when, despite having 3000 passengers on board, Gusti and I were the only 2 people in that bar...just because there was no American Football on...quite amazing).

OK, stops talking...

 

...steps down off soapbox!!!

[nosnobunny]

There isn't much I can add to what my fellow Canadians have said regarding tipping except ~ well said. :D

 

Beth

[marco]

We just came back from a trip to UK. Every place we dined noted, "12% (or 15%) service added to bill. Well, if the meal cost $10, and the 15% was automatically added. It would cost me $11.50 to get out of the place. If I were dininig in the US, and the bill came for $10, and I was expected to leave a 15% tip, but it was not "automatically" added, it would cost me $11.50 to get out of the place. And the difference is?????????????

 

Also, depending WHERE you are in the US determines whether tips are appropriate or not. IN NYC, EVERYONE has their hand out, many things that tips are exepcted for here, a tip would be unheard of most other places.

[Buddy L]

Marco

As I stated, this `extra` gratuity thing is creeping in more and more. I am from the North of England and its not quite as bad here, as it is in,say, London but it is starting to become the norm.

5 years ago, it was totally unheard of to add an extra gratuity in England, but, I suppose everyone is trying ways to maximise their profits and this seems the way people are doing it.

Dont really like it but, just got to live with it.