That 15%!!!

[Buddy L]

Ok! I've had a week on Explorer, then a week in the Bahamas.

All drinks on the Explorer include a 15% gratuity.

Virtually all restaurants and bars in the Bahamas (at least where we were) include a 15% gratuity.

Are you obliged to pay this? Can you refuse?

Is it there to pay for good service? in which case, why do they look at you in disgust if you dont leave an `extra` tip?

Does anybody feel the tipping thing is so ambiguous, and so open to interpretation, it should be scrapped and a fair wage paid instead?

Coming from England, when we book a holiday (or vacation) and we've paid the balance, we then figure we just need food and drink money.

When booking a cruise, we expect the cruise company to provide a clean room and somebody to serve your food, surely thats what you are paying for.

Because I've been reading these boards for some months now, I knew what to expect but my wife was staggered that, on top of an already expensive trip, we then had to find an extra $150-$200 in tips. This must be the case for most Europeans and countries with non-tipping cultures.

Not a complaint!, I'd done my research, just an observation, but what about this 15%?

[moopig]

From what I understand, the average wage for cruise ship employees is $45 a month so PLEASE don't skimp on that tip!

[Heidict]

I totally agree that everyone should be leaving a very nice tip for their cruise ship staff. They work their butts off for you and get very little compensation from the cruise ship for this. Of course if the service was horrible and they neglected you through most of your trip, that is a different story.

 

I think the original OP was talking about tipping in general though. Here in America you are expected to tip everyone. From the waitress, the taxi driver, the bartender, the bell hop, the shuttle bus driver and on and on and on. It can get exhausting and frustrating trying to remember who to tip and what is the appropiate amount.

 

I understand why alot of places implement an automatic tip being added to the bill when it is a large party. They want to be sure that they don't get stiffed or short changed on the tip. But if you have a problem and want the tip reduced, GOOD LUCK! Sometimes the waitress knows that she has a gauranted tip coming from the table, so what is her incentive to work hard? Nothing. Therefore she can ignore you and leave you sitting there growing madder and madder and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Personsally, I feel that tipping should be done on a case by case basis. I know that when I go out to eat that I should leave a tip (and I always do), but the tip should be based on the service. A showing of graditude for the good job that she has done. When they add the tip automatically to your bill, then its not a tip, its and added charge. Don't tell me how much I have to tip. I will decide that for myself.

[Krazy Kruizers]

All the cruise lines have gotten into this policy of tacking on 15% gratuities on bar bills and adding $10 per day per person tips to your final bill. Some people don't give an extra tip anywhere. And the cruise staff aren't no paid much by the company. Many of the cruise staff now have to buy their own uniforms as well as pay for their own one-way tickets back home home when their contracts are up.

As for a restaurant tacking on 15% automatically on my bill - I would object being as there are just 2 of us. Larger parties is another story. Many of our restaurants here at home add on the 15% when there are 8 or more dining at one table.

[nosnobunny]

It's a good thing you don't live in Canada. :D Our taxes on almost all goods and services are 15% and alcoholic drinks in a restaurant are taxed at a rate of 25%.

 

Beth

[dot73]

Every country (on in some cases continent) has a different system. I find the hotel and food prices in Europe outrageously high compared to North America, but I factor it into my budget when travelling there and it usually means a shorter trip than I would prefer. When budgeting for a cruise, I always add $200 for tipping. I find the service industry employees (restaurants, stores, hotels) in the North America are very pleasant and attentive, much more than in other countries where I have travelled. As for the cruise staff, it has been a real pleasure to tip the staff on my five cruises. In all my travels, I have never received such top-notch service as I have received on cruise ships. Because of budget constraints, I usually book a lower-priced room that I can afford but the service I receive is always first class, and I tip accordingly. The secret to happy travelling is to research a potential trip and decide whether you are willing to pay or be able to afford the extra charges that go with it. It would be great if service employees were paid high wages, but then unfortunately the price of cruising would be so high that it woudl be totally out of reach for ordinary people.

[Buddy L]

It's a good thing you don't live in Canada. :D Our taxes on almost all goods and services are 15% and alcoholic drinks in a restaurant are taxed at a rate of 25%.

 

Beth

So, is this 15% gratuity an automatic tax or is it an actual tip? and does it go direct to the staff?

Presumably, if its a tip, the staff will not be told the daily turnover so how do they know they are getting their 15%?

Has anybody ever refused the 15%? or on signing for it knocked it off the bill and left a tip on the table?

Regarding some of the other points, do the cruise companies deliberately underpay their staff because they know,apart from paying them for the cruise, by recommending a daily tipping rate, you are also helping them pay their staff wages? So they win all round.

Dont you find that leaves a sour taste somewhere?

That is like me charging a client a price for a job which would need 4 staff (including me) to complete, and then asking them to tip the other 3 staff for a job well done at the end. They have already paid for them in the initial quote!!

Does America have a minimum wage? Are cruise companies exempt?

And Moopig, dont cry too much for the employees, nobody forces them to do it, many are from poorer countries than ours and whatever wage they receive is a big step from what they could earn back home, that is why, if you talk to them, many are there for their sixth, seventh, eighth season etc.

Sorry, I'm only playing Devil's advocate here. :p

[SusieM]

Speaking as a server in a fine dining restaurant, in most states in the US the minimum wage for servers is $2.13. If the guests in my restaurant didn't tip me so well (for the most part at least) I couldn't do this job.

 

I am raising 4 children and paying a not so small mortgage with what I make.

 

I think that if restaurants paid enough so that servers could live on their hourly wages, the menu prices would go through the roof. Also, you wouldn't have servers that go out of their way trying to make your experience wonderful. I try to treat my guests like they are honored guests in my home. I have many regulars that ask for me (demand and wait for me), some from the city and state that I work in and some from out of state. I feel that a tip of 15%, when I have given guests a wonderful experience, a slap in the face--because at the end of the night, when I count my tips, I have to give 20-25% of them to others in the restaurant such as the busser, the bartender, etc.

 

I am not sure where the practice of tipping started, but it is an institution in the US at least. I don't see it changing just as I don't see the government raising our wages. So for adequate service, I think 15% is an okay tip. If your server went above the norm to take care of you and make you have a great experience, 18-20% should be given. If your server, provided you with an experience that you will always remember, think 25% or above. My largest tip to date was 300%--they will always remember me, and I them.

[nosnobunny]

So, is this 15% gratuity an automatic tax or is it an actual tip? and does it go direct to the staff?

Presumably, if its a tip, the staff will not be told the daily turnover so how do they know they are getting their 15%?

Has anybody ever refused the 15%? or on signing for it knocked it off the bill and left a tip on the table?

Regarding some of the other points, do the cruise companies deliberately underpay their staff because they know,apart from paying them for the cruise, by recommending a daily tipping rate, you are also helping them pay their staff wages? So they win all round.

Dont you find that leaves a sour taste somewhere?

That is like me charging a client a price for a job which would need 4 staff (including me) to complete, and then asking them to tip the other 3 staff for a job well done at the end. They have already paid for them in the initial quote!!

Does America have a minimum wage? Are cruise companies exempt?

And Moopig, dont cry too much for the employees, nobody forces them to do it, many are from poorer countries than ours and whatever wage they receive is a big step from what they could earn back home, that is why, if you talk to them, many are there for their sixth, seventh, eighth season etc.

Sorry, I'm only playing Devil's advocate here. :p

 

Nope - it's all tax and is automatically added to the bill. Tips are extra.

 

Although we have a minimum wage in Canada (don't know what it is), you have to remember that most cruise ships are flagged under a foreign country. What that means in practical terms is that US labour laws don't apply. Most of the service personnel on a ship rely on the tips as the major part of their salary. Please always remember that. :)

 

Beth

[kitty9]

The 15% added to the bar tab is not a tax, it's a gratuity. The servers in the bars, lounges and at the pool do not usually work in the restaurants or as a cabin steward/ess where a gratuity is automatic, so these very hard working staff rely on that 15% to supplement their meager salary.

 

To the OP, have you ever noticed that with the exception of the Pride of Aloha, no cruise ships are US flagged? The reason for that is because the cruise lines don't have to abide by many US laws concerning wages, hours and conditions of employment. With the exception of bridge officers and the head hotel officers, every other employee is paid less than a living wage. And, have you ever really looked at the amount of the 15%? If you order a soft drink for $1.75, the gratuity is a quarter----hardly a huge amount.

 

I've never, ever begrudged any gratuity for crew members, no matter how it's paid.

[carlmm]

It is so easy to avoid all the discussion. On Cunard's Caronia there was no 15% added (and none expected) but it was clearly pointed out that the gratuity is included within the amount stated on the bar list.

Also no additional tipping for room service (delivered by the steward) or in any alternative dining venue but an automatic gratuity added to your bill and split between the staff.

Never anybody ever gave you the feeling you should give more.

So it is really a cashless life on board and when you reward exceptional (and that means not everybody and not allways) service at the end it is really what it should be.

Is not the best service anyway when you forget about that somebody wants your money for it, when you really feel like a guest? Of course it is a illusion and as the bottom line eveybody must be paid but to be reminded at every encounter with a staff member is annoying.

Service just for money is no real service and yes, sorry, there are e.g. some waiters you feel they live their profession and some just do a job.

I know Americans are used to tip and tip and tip but it often sounds so ridiculous to Europeans. Just state fair prices and pay fair wages. So the customer knows what the final is and the employees are appropriately paid.

IMHO it is even humiliating for both sides to monetarize every smile and handshake.

[nosnobunny]

The 15% added to the bar tab is not a tax, it's a gratuity. The servers in the bars, lounges and at the pool do not usually work in the restaurants or as a cabin steward/ess where a gratuity is automatic, so these very hard working staff rely on that 15% to supplement their meager salary.

 

To the OP, have you ever noticed that with the exception of the Pride of Aloha, no cruise ships are US flagged? The reason for that is because the cruise lines don't have to abide by many US laws concerning wages, hours and conditions of employment. With the exception of bridge officers and the head hotel officers, every other employee is paid less than a living wage. And, have you ever really looked at the amount of the 15%? If you order a soft drink for $1.75, the gratuity is a quarter----hardly a huge amount.

 

I've never, ever begrudged any gratuity for crew members, no matter how it's paid.

 

I think there's some confusion here. In my second post, I said the 15% was all tax. I was replying to the OP's post that quoted my first post. Confused yet? :D He was referring to the 15% added to a bill in Canada. At least I thought he was. But you are correct that the 15% added to his S&S account is indeed all gratuity.

 

Beth

[lougee1043]

As for a restaurant tacking on 15% automatically on my bill - I would object being as there are just 2 of us.

just curious --how much do you tip in a restaurant for 2 people

[dot73]

"dont cry too much for the employees, nobody forces them to do it, many are from poorer countries than ours and whatever wage they receive is a big step from what they could earn back home"

 

Even in third world countries, $45 a month doesn't go very far. Perhaps these people should just be grateful they have the chance to see how the other half of the world lives!!! The Filipino and Indonesian staff I have encountered on HAL ships are some of the hardest working, dignified and friendly people I have ever met. They make great sacrifice to help out their families back home. I have seen some of them on shore, on the telephone, crying while speaking with loved ones at home. When you ask them about their families, you see the sadness in their eyes but they are appreciative that people care to ask.

 

I note that most the griping about tips on these boards comes from Europeans. My cousins from Germany never stop complaining about tips when they visit me. They don't complain about the free coffee refills, the large portions or the all you can eat buffets, the excellent and friendly service (which they rave about) but they sure hate that 15%. With all due respect, if the tipping issue really bothers you, why ruin your vacation by choosing to travel to places where it is accepted?

[colleenmf]

...Does anybody feel the tipping thing is so ambiguous, and so open to interpretation, it should be scrapped and a fair wage paid instead?

Coming from England, when we book a holiday (or vacation) and we've paid the balance, we then figure we just need food and drink money.

When booking a cruise, we expect the cruise company to provide a clean room and somebody to serve your food, surely thats what you are paying for.[/...color]

 

I agree with Buddy. I would rather the employee get a living wage and only get a tip if they do something special. Yes, that means prices will go up but aren't they falsely stated too low right now since everyone expects a 15%- 20% tip?

 

I don't see the logic of keeping wages at $2.13 an hour and having menu prices below what I am actually expected to pay. Same for a cruise. Sure it allows the companies to advertise a lower price but they sure expect you to pay more than that. Where's the logic? Not the emotion, The logic of this??

 

I'd also like to see prices that include the tax, like they do in Europe. If the price is 6 pounds (or 6 Euros), I pay 6 pounds (or 6 Euros). In the US if the price is $6, I pay $6 plus tax. Why not have all prices published with the tax included? This includes everything, restaurants, grocery, the mall, everything!!!!!

[cruiser77]

I agree with Buddy. I would rather the employee get a living wage and only get a tip if they do something special. Yes, that means prices will go up but aren't they falsely stated too low right now since everyone expects a 15%- 20% tip?

 

I don't see the logic of keeping wages at $2.13 an hour and having menu prices below what I am actually expected to pay. Same for a cruise. Sure it allows the companies to advertise a lower price but they sure expect you to pay more than that. Where's the logic? Not the emotion, The logic of this??

 

I'd also like to see prices that include the tax, like they do in Europe. If the price is 6 pounds (or 6 Euros), I pay 6 pounds (or 6 Euros). In the US if the price is $6, I pay $6 plus tax. Why not have all prices published with the tax included? This includes everything, restaurants, grocery, the mall, everything!!!!!

 

I so agree with you! :cool:

[Buddy L]

Even in third world countries, $45 a month doesn't go very far. Perhaps these people should just be grateful they have the chance to see how the other half of the world lives!!! The Filipino and Indonesian staff I have encountered on HAL ships are some of the hardest working, dignified and friendly people I have ever met. They make great sacrifice to help out their families back home. I have seen some of them on shore, on the telephone, crying while speaking with loved ones at home. When you ask them about their families, you see the sadness in their eyes but they are appreciative that people care to ask.

 

I note that most the griping about tips on these boards comes from Europeans. My cousins from Germany never stop complaining about tips when they visit me. They don't complain about the free coffee refills, the large portions or the all you can eat buffets, the excellent and friendly service (which they rave about) but they sure hate that 15%. With all due respect, if the tipping issue really bothers you, why ruin your vacation by choosing to travel to places where it is accepted?

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT

Purleese!!...Sadness in their eyes, tears etc...this isn't some 4 part made for TV starring Jane Seymour schmaltzy mini series. Lots of people work away from home, if its so distressing, work somewhere else!!

Its not...thats why they come back year after year!!

Yes, they are hard working, dignified and friendly...not because of the American, smile and I'll get a bigger tip, culture...but because as a nation and a people, they are hard working, dignified and friendly. And, if you tipped them nothing, they would still be hard working and dignified and friendly because that is their culture.

I never stated I had a problem with the tipping. Myself, as a European, and most of the Western world (Yes there are other countries out there besides America!!) just find it ambiguous and too open to interpretation.

So what parts of the world have a `tipping culture`, that I need to avoid?

Oh, that will be any country that America has thrown a ton of cash at so it can be accepted into the `American way`

I shouldn't be planning a holiday to miss the beauty of some countries just because America got there first!

Only America has a very strong tipping culture.

I mean, you walk out of a hotel, the doorman says "Get you a cab, sir?" Ok, so he walks 2 yards, holds his hand up, and you tip him for that??? Why dont you just walk the 2 yards and hold your own hand up. Its ludicrous.

Dont want to offend anybody here, (probably have) I do love America and most of the people but people like dot73 let you down!!

I could raise some of your other points but I'll probably be `bumped`

[MrsPete]

Changing the tipping question slightly . . . what about soda cards?

 

Sometimes we buy them for the kids, sometimes we don't. You're charged 15% gratuity when you purchase the card. Is it proper to tip every time you get a soda? I think that's excessive considering all they do is push the fountain drink tab. A fancy-schmancy drink takes more effort. Then, sometimes the kids pick up a soda by themselves at the pool -- and they don't have cash. I don't feel right tipping or not tipping with a soda card.

 

Opinions?

[HappyStamper]

Okay, so a 15% gratuity is automatically added to all beverage (alcohol or soda) purchases? Do most people still give the bartender a cash tip? If so, how much? Leaving on my first cruise on Nov. 28th.

[HorrorFan]

Okay, so a 15% gratuity is automatically added to all beverage (alcohol or soda) purchases? Do most people still give the bartender a cash tip? If so, how much? Leaving on my first cruise on Nov. 28th.

I wouldn't. If it says the gratuity is automatically added, it is. Unless you feel obligated to tip the tip, if you know what I mean.:)

[aggieastrosfan]

I mean, you walk out of a hotel, the doorman says "Get you a cab, sir?" Ok, so he walks 2 yards, holds his hand up, and you tip him for that??? Why dont you just walk the 2 yards and hold your own hand up. Its ludicrous.

Was I European in a past life?:rolleyes:

 

I'm with you, I think tipping in this country has gone out of control. My all-time tipping low was leaving Passion Island in May, and before the tender took us back to the mainland, the CHEF came out on the boat and walked around the boat with his hat off, asking for tips. Your tour bus driver has a tip jar that comes out at the end of the tour when your tour guide reminds you "don't forget your bus driver, he got you there safe!".

 

I can get flamed for this, I don't care, but I don't tip the frigging bus driver. I'll usually leave a small tip for the tour guide, more if they were exceptional. I didn't tip the chef on the boat, either. However, I usually am pretty generous with wait staff and bartenders. I did the whole restaurant thing for years, and those people work their tail off. Sorry, the bus driver does not (yes, I did that, too, for 3 years). Neither does the doorman opening your door and holding his hand up to get a cab for you.

[KreinKrunker]

If we go to a certain bar alot, and the bartender goes out of their way to make our trip more enjoyable, then we will usually give them an extra $20 at the end of the cruise. That means they know your name, and what you want to drink. Most of the time the 15% does the trick.

[happytogoing]

Well, Canada (Western Country last time I checked) is virtually identical to the U.S. in terms of tipping, the expectations are the same.... so it is a tip as well as the GST (tax) and PST (tax).....

[Cruisechik]

BuddyL - Since you claim that England does not have a tipping culture and you are upset about an automatic bar gratuity, could you please explain why I was always charged an automatic "service charge" at restaurants and hotels while I lived in England? Not only that, I was informed I was "expected" to add another 5-10% additional on top of the service charge. My credit card slip even included an extra line for the "extra" tip or service charge or whatever you want to call it. Taxi drivers expected a 10% tip. This was addressed for American ex-pats in corporate literature for English culture and expectation.

 

When many European countries automatically charge you a "service charge" and expect a small tip, where is the confusion? I have lived in Sweden, too. Service charge automatically included and a small amount extra expected. This is true for everywhere I have been in Europe (including Germany), so I fail to see the problem.

 

Some cruise lines (NCL) have moved to automatically include a "service charge". Maybe you would be more comfortable travelling on their cruiseline, since it is obviously more closely related to what you are used to - an "all-inclusive" figure. You are still paying for the same thing.

[TahoeBob]

 

I'd also like to see prices that include the tax, like they do in Europe. If the price is 6 pounds (or 6 Euros), I pay 6 pounds (or 6 Euros). In the US if the price is $6, I pay $6 plus tax. Why not have all prices published with the tax included? This includes everything, restaurants, grocery, the mall, everything!!!!!

The only problem with publishing the price with tax included is the different sales tax rates, just for example there two Safeway stores here on the south shore of Lake Tahoe , but one is in California and the other is in Nevada different tax rate different, different total price, more cost for diferent advertising.